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apgsearch v2.2

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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby calcyman » October 16th, 2015, 4:59 am

Freywa wrote:This leads to delays when one core finishes first. Maybe when that happens, assign some of the remaining soups to it so that the workload remains equal?


I don't know how to accomplish that. But if you run n-soup hauls, this asynchronicity delay should only be order O(sqrt(n)) compared with O(n) for the actual searching, so won't slow things down too much.
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby Billabob » October 18th, 2015, 6:35 am

Last night I had a dream about the loafer being discovered, but the sample soup was just a rickroll link
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby Apple Bottom » October 18th, 2015, 5:55 pm

19 billion objects already - we're racing from one milestone to the next!

I think we picked up some new users lately. And Calcyman, have you been adding more cores to your searcher farm? Awesome!
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby calcyman » October 18th, 2015, 6:32 pm

Apple Bottom wrote:And Calcyman, have you been adding more cores to your searcher farm? Awesome!


I've lost count, but I think I have about 100 cores running the search at the moment. By the way, there have been two updates to the user pages:

  • The user pages no longer show all discoveries simultaneously, since the animated SVGs were previously wreaking havoc on Firefox and derivatives (such as the Iceweasel that came installed with Kali Linux);
  • There is a stacked bar chart to show user contributions over the last 15 days compared with total contribution.

For example, https://catagolue.appspot.com/user/Apple%20Bottom shows that you've been contributing a steady rate of 22 * 10^9 objects per day. Mine, on the other hand, is far more erratic (and appears to be responsible for much of the variability).
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby thunk » October 18th, 2015, 6:43 pm

calcyman wrote:There is a stacked bar chart to show user contributions over the last 15 days compared with total contribution.


Which is a mixed blessing for me, because I'll be obsessing that much more over my (lack of) personal contribution. Better calm down--I've thrown all 14 cores I have at apgsearch (for 21 Gobj/day), and every little bit counts.

EDIT: At a total production of 300 Gobj/day, which seems likely to only improve with time, we're going through a trillion milestone twice a week. At this rate, we will reach 23.5 Tobj by the end of the month, and 44 at the end of the year--which may be more like 50 if we add at least a few new users.
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby Apple Bottom » October 18th, 2015, 8:02 pm

calcyman wrote:I've lost count, but I think I have about 100 cores running the search at the moment. By the way, there have been two updates to the user pages:

  • The user pages no longer show all discoveries simultaneously, since the animated SVGs were previously wreaking havoc on Firefox and derivatives (such as the Iceweasel that came installed with Kali Linux);
  • There is a stacked bar chart to show user contributions over the last 15 days compared with total contribution.

For example, https://catagolue.appspot.com/user/Apple%20Bottom shows that you've been contributing a steady rate of 22 * 10^9 objects per day. Mine, on the other hand, is far more erratic (and appears to be responsible for much of the variability).


Much appreciated! I'd noticed the slowdown in Firefox, but attributed it to extension issues rather than the browser proper. It's a good thing it's an issue with the core browser after all, though, since that means it'll eventually get fixed.

In the meantime, the breakdown by object type is very handy in and on itself.

I love the charts, too, though I wonder if they shouldn't have a log-scale Y axis. Most users' contributions are nearly invisible on their respective charts.

Oh, and one more question, while I'm posting anyway - would it be possible to list all of a user's hauls on their user page, rather than just the most recent ones? (Perhaps spread across several pages the way that objects are.)

The reason I'm asking is that I've got saved logs for many (most?) of my pre-local logging hauls, but not all of them. I'm a fairly obsessive sort, and the Catagolue website still has the hauls available if you know the right URL, so the data's still there. I'm doing some local log-crunching on these, and I'd like to complete my collection. Gotta catch 'em all! ;)
Last edited by Apple Bottom on October 18th, 2015, 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby thunk » October 18th, 2015, 8:46 pm

Apple Bottom wrote:Oh, and one more question, while I'm posting anyway - would it be possible to list all of a user's hauls on their user page, rather than just the most recent ones? (Perhaps spread across several pages the way that objects are.)

The reason I'm asking is that I've got saved logs for many (most?) of my pre-local logging hauls, but not all of them. I'm a fairly obsessive sort, and the Catagolue website still has the hauls available if you know the right URL, so the data's still there. I'm doing some local log-crunching on these, and I'd like to complete my collection. Gotta catch 'em all! ;)


Second that, I'm a completionist myself.
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby gameoflifeboy » October 18th, 2015, 11:34 pm

Speaking of the user pages, could tabulations be added for objects in other rules and symmetries? Like:
http://catagolue.appspot.com/user/Josh% ... D2_+1/xq98 would show the c/98 HighLife spaceship. Http://catagolue.appspot.com/user/[username] could still redirect to http://catagolue.appspot.com/user/[username]/b3s23/C1.
Great work, by the way!
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby thunk » October 21st, 2015, 4:57 pm

20 trillion objects censused. Yay!

Browsing around the symmetric soups leads me to conclude that the first new spaceship to emerge from the soup might be the 2-LWSS Schick engine. We have 83 instances of symmetric H-on-H 1 (with a 20 cell predecessor), and the Schick engine requires 25 cells--it's not entirely out of the question. Not very exciting, of course.
Would something such as the HWSS and MWSS dragging block count for the spaceship prize? Or would the winning ship have to be a bit more imaginative?
Last edited by thunk on October 21st, 2015, 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby calcyman » October 21st, 2015, 6:30 pm

thunk wrote:20 trillion objects censused. Yay!

Browsing around the symmetric soups leads me to conclude that the first new spaceship to emerge from the soup might be the 2-LWSS Schick engine. We have 83 instances of symmetric H-on-H 1 (with a 20 cell predeccessor), and the Schick engine requires 25 cells--it's not entirely out of the question. Not very exciting, of course.
Would something such as the HWSS and MWSS dragging block count for the spaceship prize? Or would the winning ship have to be a bit more imaginative?


I think that the prize applies to any spaceship which is not one of the following 43 spaceships:

  • 4 standard spaceships: "xq4_153", "xq4_6frc", "xq4_27dee6", "xq4_27deee6"
  • 3 LWSS-MWSS interactions: "xq4_27de6z4eb776", "xq4_27du6ze98885", "xq4_0791h1az8smec"
  • 7 LWSS-HWSS interactions: "xq4_27de6z4eb7776", "xq4_6ed72z6777be4", "xq4_27de6z8smeeec", "xq4_27dumze988885", "xq4_27de6zw8smeeec", "xq4_027deee6z8smec", "xq4_06eeed72zcems8"
  • 5 MWSS-MWSS interactions: "xq4_27dee6z4eb776", "xq4_27due6ze98885", "xq4_27dee6zw4eb776", "xq4_677be4zx48889e", "xq4_06eed72zaghgis"
  • 16 MWSS-HWSS interactions: "xq4_27dee6z4eb7776", "xq4_6eeed72zaghgis", "xq4_27duee6ze98885", "xq4_27duu6ze988885", "xq4_6eed72zaghhgis", "xq4_27dee6zw4eb7776", "xq4_06eeed72z677be4", "xq4_27dee6zx8smeeec", "xq4_aghgiszza1hh197", "xq4_02111197zcssqe4", "xq4_0791hh1az8smeec", "xq4_06eeed72zaghgis", "xq4_27duue6ze988885", "xq4_0sighhgazz791h1a", "xq4_sighgazz791hh1a", "xq4_0aghhgiszza1h197"
  • 8 HWSS-HWSS interactions: "xq4_27deee6z4eb7776", "xq4_27deee6zw4eb7776", "xq4_027deee6zsighhga", "xq4_06eeed72zaghhgis", "xq4_a1hh197zx6777be4", "xq4_27deee6zwsighhga", "xq4_0aghhgiszza1hh197", "xq4_aghhgiszzwa1hh197"

Also, I presume 'natural' is defined to mean:

The spaceship arises in the final census of an initial condition obtained by populating a 16-by-16 square in an otherwise empty infinite universe with a bitstring determined by the SHA-256 hash of a string in the standard way.


which as far as I know cannot be cheated.
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby codeholic » October 22nd, 2015, 2:04 am

thunk wrote:Would something such as the HWSS and MWSS dragging block count for the spaceship prize? Or would the winning ship have to be a bit more imaginative?

It would be enough, though, taking you figuratively, it would be kind of disappointing. On the other hand, taking you literally, no mechanisms for dragging a block with a pair of spaceships are currently known, though they were perhaps searched for. It could mean that the period would be more than 4 (if such a spaceship exists at all), that would make this spaceship quite interesting merely by this fact.

What this prize does not apply to is a new natural growing object, such as a puffer or a gun, though that would be certainly exciting too.
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby Sokwe » October 22nd, 2015, 2:36 am

codeholic wrote:
thunk wrote:Would something such as the HWSS and MWSS dragging block count for the spaceship prize? Or would the winning ship have to be a bit more imaginative?

no mechanisms for dragging a block with a pair of spaceships are currently known, though they were perhaps searched for.

I believe thunk was referring to this ship:
x = 10, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
3bo$bo3bo$o$o4bo$5o2$5b2o$5b2o2$6b2o$4bo4bo$3bo$3bo5bo$3b6o!
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby Apple Bottom » October 22nd, 2015, 2:51 pm

Apple Bottom wrote:Or we could go a step further and add XP, levels, medals, unlockable achievements etc. as well. (Kidding.)


I just noticed we do indeed have badges now: Trillionaire (Contribute one trillion objects), Conchita (Find a soup containing a phoenix), and Limitless (Observe a new natural infinite-growth pattern) at the very least. Break out the crayons and color me tickled pink!
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby codeholic » October 22nd, 2015, 3:19 pm

Sokwe wrote:I believe thunk was referring to this ship:
x = 10, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
3bo$bo3bo$o$o4bo$5o2$5b2o$5b2o2$6b2o$4bo4bo$3bo$3bo5bo$3b6o!

Wow. I didn't know it.
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby thunk » October 22nd, 2015, 5:00 pm

Apple Bottom wrote:I just noticed we do indeed have badges now: Trillionaire (Contribute one trillion objects), Conchita (Find a soup containing a phoenix), and Limitless (Observe a new natural infinite-growth pattern) at the very least. Break out the crayons and color me tickled pink!


Though there should probably be a few more that are a bit easier to get. Suggestions include:

--new spaceship/high period oscillator/large still life
--10^10 or 10^11 objects?

Okay, I'm a bit stumped right now.
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby Apple Bottom » October 22nd, 2015, 5:20 pm

thunk wrote:
Apple Bottom wrote:I just noticed we do indeed have badges now: Trillionaire (Contribute one trillion objects), Conchita (Find a soup containing a phoenix), and Limitless (Observe a new natural infinite-growth pattern) at the very least. Break out the crayons and color me tickled pink!


Though there should probably be a few more that are a bit easier to get. Suggestions include:

--new spaceship/high period oscillator/large still life
--10^10 or 10^11 objects?

Okay, I'm a bit stumped right now.


Here's some ideas:

  • "Space-Shipper" - Saw a rare spaceship, i.e. anything other than a glider or (L|M|H)WSS. Like your first suggestion, except it would be awarded even for previously-seen ships.
  • "Still Life Collector (Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum)": Saw all 11/12/13/14-bit still lives. 11 would be fairly easy to obtain, 12 harder, and 13 quite hard, and 14 well beyond the reach of anyone (or, for that matter, everyone) for the time being.
  • "Object Curator (Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum)" - Saw x distinct objects, e.g. 2500/5000/10000/25000/... .
  • "Souper-Searcher (Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum/...)" - Searched x soups, say 100m/1b/10b/100b/... . Alternatively have this count objects instead of soups, and award it as the earlier tiers of the Trillionaire badge.
Last edited by Apple Bottom on October 22nd, 2015, 5:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby A for awesome » October 22nd, 2015, 5:22 pm

thunk wrote:
Apple Bottom wrote:I just noticed we do indeed have badges now: Trillionaire (Contribute one trillion objects), Conchita (Find a soup containing a phoenix), and Limitless (Observe a new natural infinite-growth pattern) at the very least. Break out the crayons and color me tickled pink!


Though there should probably be a few more that are a bit easier to get. Suggestions include:

--new spaceship/high period oscillator/large still life
--10^10 or 10^11 objects?

Okay, I'm a bit stumped right now.

Maybe one for finding the Nth object, where N is some auspicious number, such as a 6th or higher power, or any power of a number less than 20; also maybe one for contributing the first soup in a new rule or symmetry, or the first oscillator of a certain period in any rule (Does anyone know what the smallest period is that has not been found yet by apgsearch in any rule is?).
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby dvgrn » October 22nd, 2015, 6:07 pm

Apple Bottom wrote:[*] "Still life collector (Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum)": Saw all 11/12/13/14-bit still lives. 11 would be fairly easy to obtain, 12 harder, and 13 quite hard, and 14 well beyond the reach of anyone (or, for that matter, everyone) for the time being.

Not that far out of reach any more -- there are less than 25 14-bitters still missing now, and the number has been going down steadily, a few more found every time I think to check.

Progress is going to be a lot more unsteady from here on out, I suppose. Let's see, which ones are left now? Ridiculously_long_snake (very^8) will be the last to go again, most likely? (The last one was stupidly_long_snake, as I recall.)
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby biggiemac » October 22nd, 2015, 6:26 pm

We had Sufficiently-Long-Snake, but thy could just be the working title for the smallest yet-unseen snake. Other naming options include

Snake with as many extra As as there are extra pieces: Python becomes snaake, the 14-bitter becomes snaaaaaaaaake. (If you add an exclamation point you can make the number of characters equal to the number of bits - I like that idea..)

Ridiculously-long-snake, really-ridiculously-long-snake, and snake-which-is-as-long-as-Derek-Zoolander-is-good-looking (really-really-ridiculously-long-snake).
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby Apple Bottom » October 22nd, 2015, 6:56 pm

A for awesome wrote:(Does anyone know what the smallest period is that has not been found yet by apgsearch in any rule is?).


For B3/S23, there are currently oscillators in the Catagolue for all the following periods: 2-6, 8-12, 14-16, 24, 28-31, 37, 46, 51, 120, and 138. For non-standard rules I have no idea.

biggiemac wrote:We had Sufficiently-Long-Snake, but thy could just be the working title for the smallest yet-unseen snake. Other naming options include

Snake with as many extra As as there are extra pieces: Python becomes snaake, the 14-bitter becomes snaaaaaaaaake. (If you add an exclamation point you can make the number of characters equal to the number of bits - I like that idea..)

Ridiculously-long-snake, really-ridiculously-long-snake, and snake-which-is-as-long-as-Derek-Zoolander-is-good-looking (really-really-ridiculously-long-snake).


"Snakes. Why did it have to be snakes?"

Adding more As to "snake" to indicate longness is a great idea.

I'm also curious: are there terms for long^5 and long^6, or long^9 and beyond? (I reckon that after "ridiculously long" there'd be "ludicrously long", but after that I have no idea.)
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby gameoflifeboy » October 22nd, 2015, 8:33 pm

A for awesome wrote:Maybe one for finding the Nth object, where N is some auspicious number, such as a 6th or higher power, or any power of a number less than 20; also maybe one for contributing the first soup in a new rule or symmetry, or the first oscillator of a certain period in any rule (Does anyone know what the smallest period is that has not been found yet by apgsearch in any rule is?).


At least 32.
By the way, I have been adding -L to the end of my runs of apgnano, but it does not seem to be saving the progress files. Does the path in which to save them need to be added too?
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby Apple Bottom » October 23rd, 2015, 5:23 am

gameoflifeboy wrote:By the way, I have been adding -L to the end of my runs of apgnano, but it does not seem to be saving the progress files. Does the path in which to save them need to be added too?


You need to pass it as -L 1.
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby A for awesome » October 23rd, 2015, 8:49 am

gameoflifeboy wrote:
A for awesome wrote:Maybe one for finding the Nth object, where N is some auspicious number, such as a 6th or higher power, or any power of a number less than 20; also maybe one for contributing the first soup in a new rule or symmetry, or the first oscillator of a certain period in any rule (Does anyone know what the smallest period is that has not been found yet by apgsearch in any rule is?).


At least 32.

A p32

I guess at least 41, then.
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby Freywa » October 23rd, 2015, 8:56 am

I strongly oppose the addition of badges on Catagolue and here's why. I am one of the staff on another site that has badges, an MLPFIM imageboard called Derpibooru. While some of the badges there are rather reasonable, a few are just plain ridiculous, such as the "Derpibooru Premium" badge which is nothing more than a trolling device (where a fake object is presented to you that purports to give privileges).

The sensible badges there are awarded for actual human effort. Here on Catagolue, the work isn't being done by you, it's being done by the SHA-256 hash and the random number generator, both of which are beyond your control. So if one of the soups you ran contains a very interesting thing, you can't claim to have discovered it. For the same reasons, the person whose machine "found" an object first should not be recorded. Catagolue must be a census of soups and nothing more. 16-by-16 sounds too small now; we should try 32-by-32 soups.
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Re: apgsearch v2.2

Postby calcyman » October 23rd, 2015, 9:36 am

Freywa wrote:The sensible badges there are awarded for actual human effort. Here on Catagolue, the work isn't being done by you, it's being done by the SHA-256 hash and the random number generator, both of which are beyond your control. So if one of the soups you ran contains a very interesting thing, you can't claim to have discovered it. For the same reasons, the person whose machine "found" an object first should not be recorded. Catagolue must be a census of soups and nothing more. 16-by-16 sounds too small now; we should try 32-by-32 soups.


Lemma: The following are equivalent:

  • Human effort;
  • Money;
  • Bitcoin;
  • CPU cycles;
  • Discoveries on Catagolue

Proof: By transitivity, it suffices to show that each pair of adjacent things is equivalent. The first one follows from the existence of a labour market. The second one follows from the existence of electronic Bitcoin exchanges, such as whatever has superseded mtgox. The third and fourth equivalences are slightly more subtle because they are only true in expectation, but after time-averaging they also hold.

Corollary: You're wrong.
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