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Catagolue Oddities

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby mniemiec » October 26th, 2017, 10:29 pm

dvgrn wrote:I haven't quoted quite all of the relevant parts, unfortunately -- the link above is a better source if you really want to dig into what it's doing. Seems as if when it hits the second "3-" in each pair in "B3-a3-r/S23-a3-r", that resets the isotropic bits to all-ON... whereas it doesn't reset the bits to all-OFF when it hits the second "2" in "B2a2e".

This is reasonable.

The easiest way to prevent non-canonical rule strings is to use whatever algorithm you like to convert a rule string to an internal format, then convert that internal format into a canonical string, then reject the original string if it is not an exact match for the the canonical output string (or, to be kinder and gentler, just ignore the input string and use the sanitized output string).
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby Apple Bottom » November 2nd, 2017, 2:30 am

On the topic of "oddities" again-- here's another one of those "negative period" linear-growth patterns, yl1333_1_-446_07c8ba055394b68badc481cf4cc7a331 in B2cen3ackr4-jkryz5ckqy6-cn7e8/S12i3qy4aciw5-jkr6ak/D2_x.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby danny » November 2nd, 2017, 3:27 pm

Apple Bottom wrote:On the topic of "oddities" again-- here's another one of those "negative period" linear-growth patterns

Correction, the number that is negative here refers to the number of cells created each cycle, and it usually occurs when a linear growth becomes subject to a fuse and apgluxe thinks the soup has stabilized at the same time.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby Saka » November 6th, 2017, 7:57 am

Oddity:
Try posting a comment on an object page but leave the comment section blank
Everyone, please stop posting B/S about CA
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby calcyman » November 6th, 2017, 9:30 am

Saka wrote:Oddity:
Try posting a comment on an object page but leave the comment section blank


That's a deliberate spam-protection method. I think it also blocks a particular four-letter word, namely 'href'.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby Apple Bottom » November 6th, 2017, 11:20 am

Saka wrote:Try posting a comment on an object page but leave the comment section blank


"The uploader has not made this video available in your country."

Talk about YouTube Oddities...
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby danny » November 6th, 2017, 11:23 am

Apple Bottom wrote:
Saka wrote:Try posting a comment on an object page but leave the comment section blank


"The uploader has not made this video available in your country."

Talk about YouTube Oddities...


It's supposed to be a rickroll, but that's strange...wonder what country it's blocked in.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby Saka » November 19th, 2017, 9:52 am

Everyone, please stop posting B/S about CA
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby Apple Bottom » November 19th, 2017, 10:06 am



Hmm? No, that really is an oscillator:

#C https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp288_cr996y2699rczzy0g8kaak8gzw69m9m99m9m96zy1125521/b3-ekny4y5as2-cn3-aek4ceiqy5aejkq6aci7e/D8_4
x = 16, y = 23, rule = B3-ekny4y5a/S2-cn3-aek4ceiqy5aejkq6aci7e
b3o8b3o$bo2bo6bo2bo$o3bo6bo3bo$4o8b4o$bo12bo7$7b2o$6bo2bo$5bob2ob
o$4bobo2bobo$3bobob2obobo$2bobobo2bobobo$2bobobo2bobobo$3bobob2obobo$4b
obo2bobo$5bob2obo$6bo2bo$7b2o!


And the still life at the bottom is part of it, too; if you remove it, the whole thing soon vanishes in a puff of logic.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby mniemiec » November 19th, 2017, 3:23 pm

Apple Bottom wrote:


Hmm? No, that really is an oscillator:

#C https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp288_cr996y2699rczzy0g8kaak8gzw69m9m99m9m96zy1125521/b3-ekny4y5as2-cn3-aek4ceiqy5aejkq6aci7e/D8_4
x = 16, y = 23, rule = B3-ekny4y5a/S2-cn3-aek4ceiqy5aejkq6aci7e
b3o8b3o$bo2bo6bo2bo$o3bo6bo3bo$4o8b4o$bo12bo7$7b2o$6bo2bo$5bob2ob
o$4bobo2bobo$3bobob2obobo$2bobobo2bobobo$2bobobo2bobobo$3bobob2obobo$4b
obo2bobo$5bob2obo$6bo2bo$7b2o!


And the still life at the bottom is part of it, too; if you remove it, the whole thing soon vanishes in a puff of logic.

It's very odd then, because even though the object is identified correctly, the soup it comes from doesn't produce it - it makes the still-life being hit by 8 B-heptominos which kill each other. Even if you remove six of them, the two remaining ones hit the still-life and kill it, rather than oscillating. I don't see how apgsearch could possibly have derived this oscillator from this soup.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby Apple Bottom » November 19th, 2017, 3:28 pm

mniemiec wrote:It's very odd then, because even though the object is identified correctly, the soup it comes from doesn't produce it - it makes the still-life being hit by 8 B-heptominos which kill each other. Even if you remove six of them, the two remaining ones hit the still-life and kill it, rather than oscillating. I don't see how apgsearch could possibly have derived this oscillator from this soup.


Huh, yeah. That is odd...

It might be worth rigging apgsearch to take a soup number on the command line in addition to a seed, and produce debug output on the console instead of uploading its results to see what's really going on here.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby mniemiec » November 19th, 2017, 7:06 pm

Apple Bottom wrote:It might be worth rigging apgsearch to take a soup number on the command line in addition to a seed, and produce debug output on the console instead of uploading its results to see what's really going on here.

Earlier, I had posted some patches that will make apgsearch analyze an arbitrary RLE file and store the results in a local log file. I used that to obtain yl_* apgcodes for all growing patterns I have in other rules that have not shown up in searches yet. You could use that to just enter the suspicious soup. (Due to input redirection, --rule must be recompiled into apgluxe before this is run).
(Unfortunately, for some reason, those changes broke apgsearch's authentication with payosha, so I would advise applying them only to a fork until a fix becomes available.)
Running it on the indicated soup generates the following log file:
@VERSION v4.23-ll1.22
@MD5 dc167ae5817f9908946ced645a610b31
@ROOT l_gYybTdHaRbhK
@RULE b3-ekny4y5as2-cn3-aek4ceiqy5aejkq6aci7e
@SYMMETRY C1
@NUM_SOUPS 1
@NUM_OBJECTS 1

@CENSUS TABLE
xp288_cr996y2699rczzy0g8kaak8gzw69m9m99m9m96zy1125521 1

@SAMPLE_SOUPIDS
xp288_cr996y2699rczzy0g8kaak8gzw69m9m99m9m96zy1125521 0
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby calcyman » November 19th, 2017, 7:23 pm

Apple Bottom wrote:
mniemiec wrote:It's very odd then, because even though the object is identified correctly, the soup it comes from doesn't produce it - it makes the still-life being hit by 8 B-heptominos which kill each other. Even if you remove six of them, the two remaining ones hit the still-life and kill it, rather than oscillating. I don't see how apgsearch could possibly have derived this oscillator from this soup.


Huh, yeah. That is odd...

It might be worth rigging apgsearch to take a soup number on the command line in addition to a seed, and produce debug output on the console instead of uploading its results to see what's really going on here.


Here's the soup. Maybe it's not being correctly emplaced into the universe?

x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3-ekny4y5a/S2-cn3-aek4ceiqy5aejkq6aci7e
ooobobobobbbbbobbobbbbbobobobooo$
oobbobboooooooooooooooooobbobboo$
obbobbboboboobboobboobobobbbobbo$
bbobbboooboobbobbobboobooobbbobb$
oobbboboobboobboobboobboobobbboo$
bbbboboboboobooooooboobobobobbbb$
obbobobboobbobobbobobboobbobobbo$
boooobbboobbboooooobbboobbboooob$
oobooooooboobbobbobboobooooooboo$
boobbbooboobboobboobbooboobbboob$
bobobobbooooobbbbbbooooobbobobob$
booooobboboboobooboobobobbooooob$
boobobobbboobobbbboboobbboboboob$
bobbboboboboobooooboobobobobbbob$
oobobooooobbboboobobbboooooboboo$
booboobobbboboooooobobbbobooboob$
booboobobbboboooooobobbbobooboob$
oobobooooobbboboobobbboooooboboo$
bobbboboboboobooooboobobobobbbob$
boobobobbboobobbbboboobbboboboob$
booooobboboboobooboobobobbooooob$
bobobobbooooobbbbbbooooobbobobob$
boobbbooboobboobboobbooboobbboob$
oobooooooboobbobbobboobooooooboo$
boooobbboobbboooooobbboobbboooob$
obbobobboobbobobbobobboobbobobbo$
bbbboboboboobooooooboobobobobbbb$
oobbboboobboobboobboobboobobbboo$
bbobbboooboobbobbobboobooobbbobb$
obbobbboboboobboobboobobobbbobbo$
oobbobboooooooooooooooooobbobboo$
ooobobobobbbbbobbobbbbbobobobooo!
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby mniemiec » November 19th, 2017, 7:40 pm

calcyman wrote:Here's the soup. Maybe it's not being correctly emplaced into the universe? ...

That's not likely, as my hacked up apgsearch that just creates soup images from an RLE file using C1 symmetry yields exactly the same results (see my previous message). It doesn't make this kind of mistake with any other files I've tried it with, so it appears to be a problem with apgsearch's analysis, rather than pattern entry.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby wildmyron » November 19th, 2017, 10:38 pm

mniemiec wrote:
calcyman wrote:Here's the soup. Maybe it's not being correctly emplaced into the universe? ...

That's not likely, as my hacked up apgsearch that just creates soup images from an RLE file using C1 symmetry yields exactly the same results (see my previous message). It doesn't make this kind of mistake with any other files I've tried it with, so it appears to be a problem with apgsearch's analysis, rather than pattern entry.

Here's a soup which produces the oscillator. There are two extra On cells. There seem to be a fair number of similar soups which also produce the oscillator. I've no idea how this might explain the result.
x = 32, y = 33, rule = B3-ekny4y5a/S2-cn3-aek4ceiqy5aejkq6aci7e
15b2o$3obobobo5bo2bo5bobobob3o$2o2bo2b18o2bo2b2o$o2bo3bobob2o2b2o2b2ob
obo3bo2bo$2bo3b3ob2o2bo2bo2b2ob3o3bo$2o3bob2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2obo3b2o$4b
obobob2ob6ob2obobobo$o2bobo2b2o2bobo2bobo2b2o2bobo2bo$b4o3b2o3b6o3b2o
3b4o$2ob6ob2o2bo2bo2b2ob6ob2o$b2o3b2ob2o2b2o2b2o2b2ob2o3b2o$bobobo2b5o
6b5o2bobobo$b5o2bobob2ob2ob2obobo2b5o$b2obobo3b2obo4bob2o3bobob2o$bo3b
obobob2ob4ob2obobobo3bo$2obob5o3bob2obo3b5obob2o$b2ob2obo3bob6obo3bob
2ob2o$b2ob2obo3bob6obo3bob2ob2o$2obob5o3bob2obo3b5obob2o$bo3bobobob2ob
4ob2obobobo3bo$b2obobo3b2obo4bob2o3bobob2o$b5o2bobob2ob2ob2obobo2b5o$b
obobo2b5o6b5o2bobobo$b2o3b2ob2o2b2o2b2o2b2ob2o3b2o$2ob6ob2o2bo2bo2b2ob
6ob2o$b4o3b2o3b6o3b2o3b4o$o2bobo2b2o2bobo2bobo2b2o2bobo2bo$4bobobob2ob
6ob2obobobo$2o3bob2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2obo3b2o$2bo3b3ob2o2bo2bo2b2ob3o3bo$
o2bo3bobob2o2b2o2b2obobo3bo2bo$2o2bo2b18o2bo2b2o$3obobobo5bo2bo5bobobo
b3o!
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby Majestas32 » November 22nd, 2017, 10:53 pm

https://catagolue.appspot.com/census/b2 ... nq4/C1/xs1
It claims to have the dot still life but when you click it it says "The apgcode prefix does not accurately reflect the behaviour of the pattern encoded in the suffix under the specified rule. As such, the provided apgcode is invalid in this rule."

Actually the majority of the still life section looks like bs012345678
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby danny » November 22nd, 2017, 11:15 pm

Majestas32 wrote:Actually the majority of the still life section looks like bs012345678

Ah, this has happened before (muzik's copy errored out on the first adjustable spaceship rule iirc), and I'm curious of the cause.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby Saka » November 24th, 2017, 5:54 am

Why is my haul blue?
Attachments
blue haul.png
frKuSa
blue haul.png (158.76 KiB) Viewed 313 times
Everyone, please stop posting B/S about CA
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby Apple Bottom » November 24th, 2017, 6:10 am

Saka wrote:Why is my haul blue?


IIRC different colors indicate different statuses. Blue corresponds to ?committed=6, but you'll have to ask Calcyman what the numbers mean exactly. The only ones I know for sure are 0 (new, unchecked) and 2 (committed). The rest have to do with statistical verification, peer review etc., most likely. (The number is also most likely a bitfield, so not all numbers may make sense.)
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby Saka » November 24th, 2017, 6:20 am

Apple Bottom wrote:IIRC different colors indicate different statuses. Blue corresponds to ?committed=6, but you'll have to ask Calcyman what the numbers mean exactly...

Oh alright. I also found commited=4 which is a brownish thing. I'll ask Calcyman.

Also, about the strange oscillator-soup thing, could it have been a neutrino incident?
Everyone, please stop posting B/S about CA
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby calcyman » November 24th, 2017, 8:30 am

Blue means 'committed and considered important enough to preserve for all eternity'. Green hauls, by comparison, are eventually automatically deleted to save disk space (but of course the objects from them are safely tallied in the tabulations).
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby Saka » November 24th, 2017, 8:47 am

calcyman wrote:Blue means 'committed and considered important enough to preserve for all eternity'.

But why? Because they contain "discoveries"? What about "?commited=4"? Does it mean "Nothing interesting at all"?
Everyone, please stop posting B/S about CA
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby Saka » November 29th, 2017, 5:41 am

Graph glitch:
graph glitch.png
graph glitch.png (78.73 KiB) Viewed 182 times


Even weirder on benetnasch85's page
Ill never have as many contributions as this guy.png
Ill never have as many contributions as this guy.png (66.2 KiB) Viewed 181 times
Everyone, please stop posting B/S about CA
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby Kazyan » December 9th, 2017, 10:43 pm

Catagolue does not seem to return the soups of inflated symmetries correctly. For example, the iD8_4 soups on the fumarole page, when clicked on, are formatted like C1 soups. Those C1-ized soups, to no one's surprise, do not produce a fumarole.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Postby danny » Today, 5:11 pm

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