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Thread for basic questions

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby dvgrn » June 17th, 2017, 5:23 pm

BlinkerSpawn wrote:
muzik wrote:If we let this run infinitely, will it ever become periodic, or will it grow chaotically forever, eventually producing negatives of basically every pattern known like gemini?

x = 1, y = 1, rule = B123478/S01234678
o!

If you look at it even in LifeViewer you'l notice that the corners start producing a sort-of-agar basically right away, so no.

Yup, by right about T=8000 this particular pattern becomes completely predictable.

In general this kind of question can't be categorically answered yes or no, I think, unless you can run the pattern far enough that you can catalogue all the units of repetition and all the periods, and show that they will never interact in any novel ways at any later time. A starting pattern may not be much more complicated than this before some multi-puffer interaction will turn out to be an "infinite novelty generator", which seems to keep generating new chaotic combinations indefinitely.

In those cases it's hard to show that those combinations might not somehow manage to do something like what the Sparse Life early universe does -- generate more and more complex glider collisions, so that the farther out you look, the more new things you see. Doesn't seem like there's an easy way to prove absolutely that something like a Gemini will never ever show up out there.

You can certainly say that there's a near-zero probability of any such thing happening if the average ash density is high, as it seems likely to be in variations of the above pattern. It's just hard to get from an estimate of infinitesimally low probability that something Gemini-sized will ever crawl out of that kind of soup, to an actual proof of zero probability.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby rowett » June 17th, 2017, 6:18 pm

Here is LifeViewer tracking a corner.

x = 1, y = 1, rule = B123478/S01234678
o!
[[ TRACK -1 -1 X 96 Y 96 Z 2 AUTOSTART ]]
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby muzik » June 18th, 2017, 8:17 am

Are there any rules which have natural versions of oscillators of all periods? LongLife only seems to support even periods, and B3478/S5678 doesn't have a p3, p7 or p13 despite me searching it so hard I broke Catagolue.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby drc » June 18th, 2017, 9:35 am

muzik wrote:Are there any rules which have natural versions of oscillators of all periods? LongLife only seems to support even periods, and B3478/S5678 doesn't have a p3, p7 or p13 despite me searching it so hard I broke Catagolue.

Considering there are infinitely big periods, no.

If you mean under APGsearch/nano/mera's 1000-period limit, you'd be best off searching rules like B45/S01234
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby muzik » June 18th, 2017, 9:42 am

Judging by the LongLife census Catagolue seems to cap off a bit higher than p1000.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby AforAmpere » June 18th, 2017, 6:10 pm

How do you see partials on gfind-pt for non-totalistic rules? Also, is there a way to eliminate duplicate spaceships?
Things to work on:
- An Isotropic version of All_Speeds
- Find more ships in B2ek3-ajny4ajqr5a/S02ack3ackny4aq5y
- Find a (3,1)c/5 ship in a Non-totalistic rule (someone please search the rules)
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby wildmyron » June 19th, 2017, 5:04 am

AforAmpere wrote:How do you see partials on gfind-pt for non-totalistic rules?

At the moment this requires manually combining Paul Tooke's patches with EricG's non-totalistic gfind modifications and recompiling.

AforAmpere wrote:Also, is there a way to eliminate duplicate spaceships?

With hashing enabled, gfind already does a lot of duplicate elimination, but it's not perfect. I post-process with a Python script in Golly to remove the remaining duplicates.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby AforAmpere » June 19th, 2017, 6:52 am

Thanks, I have gfind-pt with EricG's mod, but it does not output partials, and nothing is listed in "gfind c." Is there a command to view the partials?
Things to work on:
- An Isotropic version of All_Speeds
- Find more ships in B2ek3-ajny4ajqr5a/S02ack3ackny4aq5y
- Find a (3,1)c/5 ship in a Non-totalistic rule (someone please search the rules)
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Goldtiger997 » June 19th, 2017, 7:18 am

AforAmpere wrote:Thanks, I have gfind-pt with EricG's mod, but it does not output partials, and nothing is listed in "gfind c." Is there a command to view the partials?


I had the same problem myself about a month ago, and asked on the "How to use gfind thread". The answer Sokwe gave should answer your question.

I mainly "upgraded" to gfind-pt to find knightships, rather than find partials, but after trying in several different rules with threads, I am still unsucessful.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby AforAmpere » June 19th, 2017, 10:01 am

Where does the /p go in the argument? When I put it, it says that /p is not found, can you please give an example?
EDIT: I realized it only works for normal life-like rules and got it to work.
Last edited by AforAmpere on June 19th, 2017, 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Things to work on:
- An Isotropic version of All_Speeds
- Find more ships in B2ek3-ajny4ajqr5a/S02ack3ackny4aq5y
- Find a (3,1)c/5 ship in a Non-totalistic rule (someone please search the rules)
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Ethanagor » June 19th, 2017, 8:46 pm

I would like to run APGSearch for extended periods of time, but I have run into an issue with that. If I leave the computer unattended for more than 10 minutes, it goes to sleep and stops searching. How can I run a long search without having to periodically bump the mouse?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby BlinkerSpawn » June 19th, 2017, 9:08 pm

Ethanagor wrote:I would like to run APGSearch for extended periods of time, but I have run into an issue with that. If I leave the computer unattended for more than 10 minutes, it goes to sleep and stops searching. How can I run a long search without having to periodically bump the mouse?

On my Windows 10 laptop I can go to Settings > System > Power & Sleep and set the length of time until my computer enters Sleep Mode to "Never".
You should be able to follow a similar process on your computer.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Saka » June 22nd, 2017, 5:23 am

This might not be the page to post it, but can someone tell me how to make the "View Static image" disappear on the spaceship info tempelate without making the rest of the infobox information disappear?
Everyone, please stop posting B/S about CA
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

(Check gen 2)
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby fluffykitty » June 22nd, 2017, 11:04 am

Which page are you editing?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby muzik » June 22nd, 2017, 11:25 am

In HighLife and a few other rules, patterns have been made that produce replicators. Got a few questions to ask about such patterns:

- Would these be considered breeders? Replicators resemble sawtooths more than they do linear growth patterns in their growth rate.

- HighLife's replicator forms Sierpinski triangles when puffed out in such a manner, and the W90 rule also produces this pattern when layered in 2D. Could replicators be made that follow other Wolfram rules such as W30 and W110, and display such patterns when produced in such a manner? (I suppose that siderakes and backrakes/puffers could be said to be representing rules W2 and W4 respectively, assuming that the produced spaceships follow the same direction type (if the producing object is diagonal, the products should also be moving diagonal, but not neccesarily in the exact same direction) as the producing object)

- By this logic, could spaceships be considered 0D replicators?
Last edited by muzik on June 22nd, 2017, 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby dvgrn » June 22nd, 2017, 11:36 am

Saka wrote:This might not be the page to post it, but can someone tell me how to make the "View Static image" disappear on the spaceship info tempelate without making the rest of the infobox information disappear?

My reading of Template:Spaceship is that there isn't currently a way to turn off the static-image link. The animated links are "opt-in", but the static links are "you can't even opt out".

All the red static-image links in otherwise nice-looking infoboxes have been bothering me lately, too -- though I'm not yet bothered enough to generate and upload all the missing image files.

It may be a good idea to change the template so that "static = true" is an opt-in switch just like "animated" -- on Template:Spaceship, Template:Oscillator, and whatever other templates have static-image links by default. Does that make sense to everyone reading this? If so, I'll ask around elsewhere, and then maybe figure out what changes to make this weekend.

And speaking of images: the new Build 231 of LifeViewer will be capable of showing RLE in a form that looks a lot like a static image -- [[ NOGUI ]] basically serves up a PNG file with no option to launch the full LifeViewer. At the moment there's some trouble with memory-related errors on the LifeWiki server, not necessarily related to the new LifeViewer... with any luck this will be sorted out shortly.

However, in theory it does seem nice to have a static image on hand for each article, for browsers that aren't able to run LifeViewer. A possible future use of LifeViewer will be to make it much easier to generate and upload those images.

-- Not sure how exactly that's going to work yet. If the process could somehow be reduced to just clicking the redlink and confirming that an auto-generated image looks okay to upload, that would make it a lot more likely that static images would actually get uploaded...!
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby muzik » June 22nd, 2017, 5:57 pm

My questions remain unanswered.

Also, what exactly would be the difference between, say, a replicator that followed W22 and a replicator that followed W90?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby muzik » June 23rd, 2017, 7:54 am

Could there be a universal constructor based ship or replicator with less than 10000 cells?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Saka » June 23rd, 2017, 9:04 am

What's the best programming language to write a CA program in?
Everyone, please stop posting B/S about CA
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

(Check gen 2)
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby dvgrn » June 23rd, 2017, 10:27 am

muzik wrote:My questions remain unanswered.

Um. Well. You're generating a lot of questions, and when you exceed the forums' collective answering capacity, the questions that are a little vague or difficult to answer are naturally going to fall by the wayside.

It will work better if you re-quote a question specifically after a decent interval, say a week or two, and maybe explain a little more why it's a question that other people should be interested in. Expecting an answer by the afternoon of the same day might be a bit... optimistic.

muzik wrote:In HighLife and a few other rules, patterns have been made that produce replicators. Got a few questions to ask about such patterns:

- Would these be considered breeders? Replicators resemble sawtooths more than they do linear growth patterns in their growth rate.

There was some good discussion of this in the super-breeders? thread.

muzik wrote:Also, what exactly would be the difference between, say, a replicator that followed W22 and a replicator that followed W90?

Can't think of any interesting answers here. One would emulate W22, one would emulate W90 -- they both would effectively receive signals from past/previous 1D rows, but those signals would have to have different effects on the next row of replicators.

Something like this could be engineered with known B3/S23 technology, with a UC-type solution like the one Calcyman has been working on, but it's hard to guess how some of those transitions could be modeled in any simpler way. Seems a bit unlikely to occur in a "natural" replicator, but of course you never know what might turn up.

muzik wrote:Could there be a universal constructor based ship or replicator with less than 10000 cells?

It's not impossible, but we're not there yet. A lot closer for the ship than the replicator, I think. Hyper-optimization of a spaceship with two construction arms working together at 90 degrees might do it somehow. But we'd have to give up on the simplifying assumption of returning to a standard "elbow" and do custom searches instead, to produce entire slow-salvo recipes by progressive collisions into random junk.

Even that probably won't get us very close. This pattern, for example, is about 20000 ON cells, double your target, and basically that whole recipe is needed to construct just a single Snark reflector. -- That's assuming you don't mean a 100x100 bounding box size, of course; in that case I think it's very safe to say that a B3/S23 UC-based design will never fit.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby muzik » June 23rd, 2017, 4:58 pm

Well, from what has been seen on the Caterloopillar thread, slower speeds appear to mean less cells. Only problem is it caps off at about c/100, so a superslow caterloopillar might have a minimal cell count but there are currently no means to generate such a thing.


Anyways, are there any reactions involving a domino spark or two shifting a still life or oscillator in a way that could act as a period doubler?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby drc » June 24th, 2017, 12:28 am

What software did Eppstein use on his database? I want to use it to find more ultra-slow gliders...maybe adapt it for non-totalistic use.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Saka » June 24th, 2017, 12:40 am

drc wrote:What software did Eppstein use on his database? I want to use it to find more ultra-slow gliders...maybe adapt it for non-totalistic use.

gfind. But maybe he used something else for those ultra slow ones.
Everyone, please stop posting B/S about CA
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

(Check gen 2)
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby A for awesome » June 24th, 2017, 9:57 am

Saka wrote:
drc wrote:What software did Eppstein use on his database? I want to use it to find more ultra-slow gliders...maybe adapt it for non-totalistic use.

gfind. But maybe he used something else for those ultra slow ones.

gsearch, I would assume.
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby toroidalet » June 24th, 2017, 11:14 am

Is there any way to quickly remove all signatures from your posts?
Also, is it ok to use Aidan mode on April 1st?
I have the best signature ever.
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