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Thread for your unsure discoveries

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby 83bismuth38 » March 3rd, 2017, 1:34 pm

Hey, technically, if we can synthesize something, shouldn't that mean it's instantly natural? because gliders spawn naturally and COULD synthesize what ever it is. :mrgreen:
x = 8, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
3b2o$3b2o$2b3o$4bobo$2obobobo$3bo2bo$2bobo2bo$2bo4bo$2bo4bo$2bo!

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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby muzik » March 3rd, 2017, 1:52 pm

Well, not really. It definitely proves that something can be created naturally, but we'd have to see it emerge from a truly random soup to confirm that.
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby 83bismuth38 » March 3rd, 2017, 2:30 pm

as far as I have gotten (and will get unless smaller period 51+ oscillators come out) is 59219160 periods. and sheesh, that's a 2467465% increase from the sandwich shop. I give to you, Rube Goldberg's monster:
#CXRLE Pos=-18,-42 Gen=1513
x = 41, y = 69, rule = B3/S23
5b2ob2o$6bobo$7bobo$7b2o$8bo$7bo$5b2o6bobo$b2ob2o5b2ob2o$b2o7bob2o$9bo
4b2o$8b2o5bo$8bo$21bo9bo$7b2o11bobo7bobo$7b2o12bo8bobo3b2o$4bo22b2obob
2o3bo$4b7o8b5o4bobo4bobob2o$11bo6bo5bobo2bob5obo2bo$4b2o2b3obo4bob2o3b
ob2obobo4bobo$4bo3bobobo4bobo2bobo4bobo3bo2b2o$5bo3b2obob2obo3b2obo4bo
bobobobo$6bo5bob2obo5bo6b2obobobo$7bo4bo5b5o9bobobo$8bobobo19bobo$9b2o
b2o6bo12b2o$19bobo$20bo$34b2o$18b5o9b3o$18bo4bo7bo4bo$21b2obo5bob4obo$
3bo18bobo2bo2bobo2bobo$2ob2o19bobobobobo4b2o$4obo3bo3b2o2b3o4bo2bo2bob
o2bobo$4bobobobo2bo4b2o3b2o5bob4obo$3bo2bobo2bobo5bo11bo4bo$4b3ob3o2bo
b2o15b3o$13bo2bo17b2o$4b3ob3o3bo4bo$3bo2bobo2bo3b5o$4bobobobo$5bo3bo7b
o7bo$16bobo5bobo$17bo7bo3$18bo5bo$17b3o3b3o$16b2ob2ob2ob2o$17b3o3b3o$
18bo5bo3$13b2o16bo5bo$12bobo15b3o3bobo$12bo16b2ob2o3bo$11b2o5b2o10b3o$
18b2o11bo2$31bo$22b2o6b3o$22b2o5b2ob2o3bo$30b3o3bobo$31bo5bo2$25b2o$
26bo$23b3o$23bo!

There is no way that this is the highest possible trivial oscillator yet. but if it is, I won't know what do do with myself... :|
x = 8, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
3b2o$3b2o$2b3o$4bobo$2obobobo$3bo2bo$2bobo2bo$2bo4bo$2bo4bo$2bo!

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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby Apple Bottom » March 3rd, 2017, 6:23 pm

83bismuth38 wrote:Hey, technically, if we can synthesize something, shouldn't that mean it's instantly natural? because gliders spawn naturally and COULD synthesize what ever it is. :mrgreen:


The definition of "natural" is a bit fuzzy, but an object is generally said to be "natural" if it has been seen in the ash of a random soup.

On "fuzzy": if one believes that the truth of such statements as "X is natural" for a given pattern X does not change over time, then a pattern was already natural before the soup it arose from was found (we merely didn't know it yet). And given that every pattern could itself be produced by chance as a random soup (the odds are, in fact, exactly as large as the odd that any other given random soup of the same size is generated), it follows that all patterns are in fact natural. (This is basically the same argument you're making, except without the intermediate gliders.)

Of course this isn't the usual meaning of "natural". The actual meaning is best characterized as "as long as we don't think about it too much we all know what it is", so we do indeed try not to think about it too much. (See what I mean about "fuzzy"?)

Long story short, no, synthesizable objects are not automatically natural unless and until they actually appear in a random (a priori asymmetric) soup's ash.

There is no way that this is the highest possible trivial oscillator yet. but if it is, I won't know what do do with myself... :|


All oscillators above a certain period (43) are trivially constructible as a glider loop. (The lower bound is 43 because that's the recovery time of the snark, the fastest known glider reflector.)

So constructing a (say) period-59219161 oscillator is as easy as setting up some snarks and putting a glider loop between them -- just make sure the gliders are sufficiently far apart from each other. (The higher the desired period, the bigger and sparser the entire loop will have to be.)
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby mniemiec » March 3rd, 2017, 6:41 pm

Nick Gotts gave a paper at the CA98 conference that dealt with naturalness. I will try to reconstruct some of the basic ideas from memory, although my understanding is fairly imperfect.

Assume that the initial universe is seeded with random cells, with a probability p (where p is close to 0) that any given cell is alive. Random bits occur with probability O(p), close bit-pairs with probability O(p^2), triplets with probability O(p^3), etc. Since all triplets either die or form blinkers or blocks in one generation, these are called "blonks". The first interesting patterns occur at O(p^5) (gliders, and R-pentominos that also make gliders). Arbitrary n-bit objects and patterns occur with a probability at most O(p^n), although if they can be synthesized easily, say, from g gliders, they would be O(p^5g), if 5g<n. By using similar projections, one could determine how large an area you would need to examine before switch engines were likely (e.g. O(p^11)), or other puffers, guns, or breeders, etc. (For example, if p=1/1000000, a million by a million square would likely hold one bit-pair, and a trillion by a trillion square would likely hold one beehive, pond, or traffic light. A switch engine would be expected somewhere in a square around 3e30 on a side. P must be kept very small so that O notation holds - i.e. no reasonable number of copies of an object of one rarity will make it less rare than any object of a lesser degree of rarity.)
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby Gamedziner » March 3rd, 2017, 7:34 pm

@83bismuth38 You can combine some parts as follows:
x = 28, y = 27, rule = B3/S23
19bo$8b2o8bobo$8b2o9bo$5bo$5b7o5b5o$12bo3bo5bob2o$5b2o2bobobobob3o
2bob2o$5bo3bo3bobo6bo$6bo3b2obobo2b3obo$7bo5bobo5bo$8bo4bo2b5o$
9bobobo$10b2ob2o3b5o$18bo4bo$21bo2bo$2b3o16b2obo2bo$o
17bo5bobobo$o4bo3bo3b2o2bobo4bo2bo$bo2bobobobo2bo3bo2bo2b2o$3bo2bobo2b
obo2b4o$4b3ob3o2bob3o$13bo2bo$4b3ob3o3bo4bo$3bo2bobo2bo3b5o$4bobobobo$
5bo3bo7bo$16bobo$17bo!
x = 81, y = 96, rule = LifeHistory
58.2A$58.2A3$59.2A17.2A$59.2A17.2A3$79.2A$79.2A2$57.A$56.A$56.3A4$27.
A$27.A.A$27.2A21$3.2A$3.2A2.2A$7.2A18$7.2A$7.2A2.2A$11.2A11$2A$2A2.2A
$4.2A18$4.2A$4.2A2.2A$8.2A!
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby gmc_nxtman » March 3rd, 2017, 8:18 pm

Compacted (could obviously still be improved):

x = 41, y = 47, rule = LifeHistory
8.2A10.A.2A$8.A2.A8.2A.A11.A$9.5A20.A.A$14.A3.5A6.2A3.A.A$9.2A2.A.A.A
5.A5.A3.2A.A.2A$8.B2AB2.2A.A3.2A.A.2A.A.A4.A.A$9.2B6.A.A2.A.A.A2.A.5A
.A2.A$4.5BA7.A.2A3.A3.A.A4.A.A.2A$.BA5B2AB7.A5.A2.2A2.A3.A.A$2B2A4BA
2B4.B3.5A5.A.A.A.A.A$.3B2ABA2B.2B.B2A12.A.A.A.2A$.B2AB2AB2.2B2AB2A4.A
8.A.A.A$2.ABA3B2.B2AB.B4.A.A9.A.A$8.2BA3B7.A10.2A$8.BA4B3.A7.A3.A$8.B
2A3B2.A.A5.A.A2.7A$8.ABA3B2.BA2B3.2BAB9.A$8.BABAB4.2B5.2B3.2A2.3A.A$
8.2AB2A4.3B3.3B3.A3.A.A.A$9.4B4.BA2B.2BAB4.A3.2A.A.2A$11.B3.2B3AB.B3A
2B3.A5.A.2A$5.A8.2B2AB2A.2AB2A2B3.A4.A$4.A.A8.2B3AB.B3A2B5.A.A.A$5.A
9.3BA2B.2BA3B6.2A.2A$15.13B3.B$3.5A7.6B.5B.5B$2.A5.A4.2AB.3B3.3B.4BAB
3.BA$.A.5A.A2.A.AB.4B2.2B.4B3A3BA.A$.A.A3.A.A2.A5.4B3.4B2AB2A3BA$2A.A
3.A.2A.A4.B2AB4.5B3A2B.B$A2.2A.2A2.A.2A4.2A7.4BA2B$2.A5.A15.B3.B$3.5A
3.5A7.3B.4BA2B$10.A4.A6.2A6B3A2B.B$5.A3.A.BAB8.2A5B2AB2A3BA$4.A.A2.A.
2AB9.B.5B3A3BA.A$5.A.A.A.4BA11.4BAB3.BA$7.A.A3.B2AB2.2A4.8B$6.A2.2A2.
3AB3.A4.2A4.B$6.3A5.5B.A.A3.A$9.2A5.2BA.A.4A$8.A2.A4.B2A.A$6.AB.A.A2.
A4.A2.2A$5.BA2B.A3.5A4.A$6.A.B13.A$7.2BA6.2A.A2.2A$7.2A7.A.2A!
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby 83bismuth38 » March 3rd, 2017, 10:11 pm

ok, this is awesome! the more compact, the better, because now i might be able to add MORE prime oscillators :D I'll post them as soon as I finish.

edit: okay one thing though, PLEASE only use life, not life history, hashlife or anything other than LIFE. it just bothers me.
x = 8, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
3b2o$3b2o$2b3o$4bobo$2obobobo$3bo2bo$2bobo2bo$2bo4bo$2bo4bo$2bo!

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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby gmc_nxtman » March 3rd, 2017, 11:48 pm

83bismuth38 wrote:edit: okay one thing though, PLEASE only use life, not life history, hashlife or anything other than LIFE. it just bothers me.


Sorry, I was using LifeHistory to keep track of the reaction envelopes of certain oscillators. I'd like to point out that HashLife is an algorithm for running cellular automata, not a ruleset or modification to the normal GOL rules.

EDIT: Here it is in normal life:

x = 41, y = 47, rule = B3/S23
8b2o10bob2o$8bo2bo8b2obo11bo$9b5o20bobo$14bo3b5o6b2o3bobo$9b2o2bobobo
5bo5bo3b2obob2o$9b2o3b2obo3b2obob2obobo4bobo$17bobo2bobobo2bob5obo2bo$
9bo7bob2o3bo3bobo4bobob2o$2bo5b2o8bo5bo2b2o2bo3bobo$2b2o4bo10b5o5bobob
obobo$4b2obo7b2o12bobobob2o$2b2ob2o5b2ob2o4bo8bobobo$2bobo6b2o7bobo9bo
bo$10bo10bo10b2o$9bo7bo7bo3bo$9b2o5bobo5bobo2b7o$8bobo6bo7bo10bo$9bobo
17b2o2b3obo$8b2ob2o16bo3bobobo$18bo5bo5bo3b2obob2o$17b3o3b3o5bo5bob2o$
5bo10b2ob2ob2ob2o5bo4bo$4bobo10b3o3b3o7bobobo$5bo12bo5bo9b2ob2o2$3b5o$
2bo5bo4b2o16bo5bo$bob5obo2bobo15b3o3bobo$bobo3bobo2bo16b2ob2o3bo$2obo
3bob2obo5b2o10b3o$o2b2ob2o2bob2o4b2o11bo$2bo5bo$3b5o3b5o15bo$10bo4bo6b
2o6b3o$5bo3bo2bo9b2o5b2ob2o3bo$4bobo2bob2o17b3o3bobo$5bobobo5bo15bo5bo
$7bobo4b2o3b2o$6bo2b2o2b3o4bo4b2o$6b3o11bobo3bo$9b2o7bobob4o$8bo2bo5b
2obo$6bo2bobo2bo4bo2b2o$6bo3bo3b5o4bo$6bo15bo$9bo6b2obo2b2o$7b2o7bob2o
!
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby mniemiec » March 3rd, 2017, 11:54 pm

gmc_nxtman wrote:Compacted (could obviously still be improved): ...

This is technically a constellation of two different oscillators, as no cells from the bottom part touch or interact with any cells in the top part.
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby gmc_nxtman » March 4th, 2017, 12:01 am

mniemiec wrote:This is technically a constellation of two different oscillators, as no cells from the bottom part touch or interact with any cells in the top part.


Minor fix for that:

x = 41, y = 47, rule = LifeHistory
8.2A10.A.2A$8.A2.A8.2A.A11.A$9.5A20.A.A$14.A3.5A6.2A3.A.A$9.2A2.A.A.A
5.A5.A3.2A.A.2A$8.B2AB2.2A.A3.2A.A.2A.A.A4.A.A$9.2B6.A.A2.A.A.A2.A.5A
.A2.A$4.5BA7.A.2A3.A3.A.A4.A.A.2A$.BA5B2AB7.A5.A2.2A2.A3.A.A$2B2A4BA
2B4.B3.5A5.A.A.A.A.A$.3B2ABA2B.2B.B2A12.A.A.A.2A$.B2AB2AB2.2B2AB2A4.A
8.A.A.A$2.ABA3B2.B2AB.B4.A.A9.A.A$8.2BA3B4.3A.3A7.2A$8.BA4B3.A7.A3.A$
8.B2A3B2.A.A5.A.A2.7A$8.ABA3B2.BA2B3.2BAB9.A$8.BABAB4.2B5.2B3.2A2.3A.
A$8.2AB2A4.3B3.3B3.A3.A.A.A$9.4B4.BA2B.2BAB4.A3.2A.A.2A$11.B3.2B3AB.B
3A2B3.A5.A.2A$5.A8.2B2AB2A.2AB2A2B3.A4.A$4.A.A8.2B3AB.B3A2B5.A.A.A$5.
A9.3BA2B.2BA3B6.2A.2A$15.13B3.B$3.5A7.6B.5B.5B$2.A5.A4.2AB.3B3.3B.4BA
B3.BA$.A.5A.A2.A.AB.4B2.2B.4B3A3BA.A$.A.A3.A.A2.A5.4B3.4B2AB2A3BA$2A.
A3.A.2A.A4.B2AB4.5B3A2B.B$A2.2A.2A2.A.2A4.2A7.4BA2B$2.A5.A15.B3.B$3.
5A3.5A7.3B.4BA2B$10.A4.A6.2A6B3A2B.B$5.A3.A.BAB8.2A5B2AB2A3BA$4.A.A2.
A.2AB9.B.5B3A3BA.A$5.A.A.A.4BA11.4BAB3.BA$7.A.A3.B2AB2.2A4.8B$6.A2.2A
2.3AB3.A4.2A4.B$6.3A5.5B.A.A3.A$9.2A5.2BA.A.4A$8.A2.A4.B2A.A$6.AB.A.A
2.A4.A2.2A$5.BA2B.A3.5A4.A$6.A.B13.A$7.2BA6.2A.A2.2A$7.2A7.A.2A!
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby Sokwe » March 4th, 2017, 12:46 am

83bismuth38 wrote:I give to you, Rube Goldberg's monster:
#CXRLE Pos=-18,-42 Gen=1513
x = 41, y = 69, rule = B3/S23
5b2ob2o$6bobo$7bobo$7b2o$8bo$7bo$5b2o6bobo$b2ob2o5b2ob2o$b2o7bob2o$9bo
4b2o$8b2o5bo$8bo$21bo9bo$7b2o11bobo7bobo$7b2o12bo8bobo3b2o$4bo22b2obob
2o3bo$4b7o8b5o4bobo4bobob2o$11bo6bo5bobo2bob5obo2bo$4b2o2b3obo4bob2o3b
ob2obobo4bobo$4bo3bobobo4bobo2bobo4bobo3bo2b2o$5bo3b2obob2obo3b2obo4bo
bobobobo$6bo5bob2obo5bo6b2obobobo$7bo4bo5b5o9bobobo$8bobobo19bobo$9b2o
b2o6bo12b2o$19bobo$20bo$34b2o$18b5o9b3o$18bo4bo7bo4bo$21b2obo5bob4obo$
3bo18bobo2bo2bobo2bobo$2ob2o19bobobobobo4b2o$4obo3bo3b2o2b3o4bo2bo2bob
o2bobo$4bobobobo2bo4b2o3b2o5bob4obo$3bo2bobo2bobo5bo11bo4bo$4b3ob3o2bo
b2o15b3o$13bo2bo17b2o$4b3ob3o3bo4bo$3bo2bobo2bo3b5o$4bobobobo$5bo3bo7b
o7bo$16bobo5bobo$17bo7bo3$18bo5bo$17b3o3b3o$16b2ob2ob2ob2o$17b3o3b3o$
18bo5bo3$13b2o16bo5bo$12bobo15b3o3bobo$12bo16b2ob2o3bo$11b2o5b2o10b3o$
18b2o11bo2$31bo$22b2o6b3o$22b2o5b2ob2o3bo$30b3o3bobo$31bo5bo2$25b2o$
26bo$23b3o$23bo!


This sort of pattern is more appropriate for the sandbox. While I'm sure that this exact construction has not been made before, these oscillator combinations don't really represent new technology.

83bismuth38 wrote:PLEASE only use life, not life history, hashlife or anything other than LIFE. it just bothers me.

LifeHistory provides a very useful way to visualize life patterns. It is used commonly throughout the forums, and I doubt that will change any time soon.

If you want to change a "simple" LifeHistory pattern (one with only green and blue cells) to standard life, one way is to do the following:
  1. Paste the LifeHistory pattern into Golly.
  2. From the menus, select Control->Set Rule.
  3. Change the algorithm to "Generations".
  4. In the box labeled "Enter a new rule:" write "012345678//3" and press "OK".
  5. Run the pattern for one generation (this will get rid of the "blue" cells, which will have changed color when you changed the rule).
  6. Change the rule back to standard life (use "select a named rule" in the change rule dialog).

The "better" way to change LifeHistory to Life would be to use the change-state.py script in Golly. To do this, you need to get Golly to be able to run python scripts. Once you've done this, you can run change-state.py by going to Help->Online Archives and selecting Golly Scripts Database and then change-state.py. In the dialog that pops up, enter "2 0" to change state 2 (blue cells) into state 0 (black/empty cells). Finally, change the rule to standard Life.
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby Saka » March 4th, 2017, 12:48 am

Hello 83bismuth38,
It seems like you are experimenting with well-known patterns.
Yes, I appreciate your enthusiasm in Life, but you might want to improve your knowledge on these patterns. No offense, but the patterns you are posting are not discoveries. Look at the oscillator you posted. Yes, the period is high, but they are trivial as they do not have a single cell that oscillates the entire period. Take this, for example. It is a non-trivial oscillator based on an interaction with sparks:
x = 16, y = 23, rule = B3/S23
9bo2bo$8bo$6b2o$3bo6b2obo$6bo3bo2bo$6b3obo3bo$3bo11bo$4bo3bob3o$5bo2bo
3bo$5bob2o6bo$11b2o$10bo$6bo2bo2$4b2o$2bo4bo$bo6bo$o8bo$o8bo$o8bo$bo6b
o$2bo4bo$4b2o!

As you can see, there is a single spark that oscillates the whole period, or every 120 generations.
This, however, is trivial:
x = 41, y = 34, rule = B3/S23
3bo2bo$7bo$8b2o$2bob2o6bo$2bo2bo3bo$bo3bob3o$o11bo$3b3obo3bo$3bo3bo2bo
$o6b2obo$3b2o$5bo$6bo2bo2$10b2o8bobobo3bobobo3bobobo$8bo4bo$7bo6bo9bo
3bo7bo3bo$6bo8bo$6bo8bo4bobobo3bobobo3bo3bo$6bo8bo$7bo6bo9bo3bo3bo3bo
3bo$8bo4bo$10b2o8bobobo3bobobo3bobobo2$9bo$5b2o3bo$5bo5bob2o$2b2obobo
6bo$2b2obob2ob4o$5bobo$5bobob3o$6bobo3bo$8bo2b2o$8b2o!

Because there is no cell that oscillates at p360.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are also infinitely many still lives in Life:
x = 50, y = 75, rule = B3/S23
4b2o2b2o3bo3b2obo2b2ob2o2b2o3bo2b2o5b2o$5bo3bo3b3o2bob4o3bo3bo2bobo2bo
3bo2bo$5bobobob2o3b2o7b2o4bobob2obo4b2obobo$3b2obobo2bo2bo2bob2ob2obo
3b2o2bo4b2o4bo2b2o$2bobobo4bob2obo2bo3bo3bo2bob2o4bo5bo$bobo2bobo3bo2b
ob2o2b2o2bob2obobo3b2o2bob2o$o2bobob5o2bo2bo4bob2obo2bo2bo3bob2obo3b2o
$obo2bo5bob2obo2bo2bobo2bo2bob2o2bo2bo2bo3bobo$b2ob2o3bobobo2bob4o3bob
ob2o3b3obo2bob2obo2bo$4bo3bobobo2bobo4b2obo2bo2bobo4bob2o2bo2bobo$4bo
3bo3bob2o2bobo2bobo4b2obo2b2obo2bo2bob2o$2b2ob2ob2o2bo2bob2ob2obob2o4b
ob2o2bobob2ob2o$3bobobo2bob2obo2bobo2bo2bo2bo3bo3bobo2bobo2b2o$3bo3bo
2bo2bobobo4bobo4b2o2bo2b2obo2bo3b2obo$4bo2b2ob2o3bo2b2o3bob4o2bob2o4b
2ob2o5bo$3b2o3bobo3bob2o2bo4bo3bobo2bob2o2bo5b3o$3bo3bo3b4o2bob2o2bo4b
2o2bobo2b2obo4bo$4bo3b3o4bobo5b2o6b2o2bo4b2o2bobo$5bo5bo2b2o2bob3o2bo
2b3o2bobob2o2bo2bo2bo$4b2o4b2o5b2obo3b2o2bo3b2ob2ob2o2b2o2b2o6$2o2b2ob
o3b2o6b2o5b2obo3b2o2b2o6b2o$bo3bob3o2bo3b2o2bo2b2o2bob3o2bo3bo3b2o2bo$
bobo2bo3b2o5bobo3bo3bo4b2o3bo5b3o$2bob2o2b2o6bo2b4o2bob2ob2o5b2o2bo$ob
obo4bob3o3b2o3bob2obo3bob3obo3b2ob2o$2obo2bo2bo2bo2bobo2b2o2bo2bo3bobo
2bo2bobo3bo$3bob2o3bo3b2obo3bobo2bo3b2obo2bob2o3b2o$3bobo3b2obobo2bobo
3bob2obo2bo2b2o2bo2bobo3b2o$2b2o3bo3bobo2bobob4obo2b2obo3bobo2b2o3bo2b
o$2bo2bob2obo2bob2obobo5bo2bo2b3o2b2obo2bob2o$4b2o2bobob2obo3bo3b2ob2o
2bobo2b2o2bo2b2obo$2bobo2bo2b2o2bo2b2o3bobo2bob2o4bo2bo4bobobo$2b2o2b
2obo3bo4bobo2bo2bo2bo2bo4b2obo2bob2obo$7bo2bob2obo2bob2obob2obo2b6o2bo
bob2o3bo$5bo3b2obo2b4o2bo2bo2bob2o4bo2bo2b2o3b2o$5b2o4bo2bo4bo2bobo2bo
2bob2o3b2obo3b2o$6bo2b2o4bo2b2ob2ob2ob2obo2bobobo2bo4bo$4bo4bo4b2o3bob
o2bo2bo2b2obob2o2b2obo2bob2o$4b2o5bo3bobo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bobo5bob4obo$5bo
4b2o3bob2obob2ob2ob2obo2bo3bo10bo$5bob2o2bob2o2bo2bobo2bo2bo2bobo4b2o
4bob4o$6bo2b2o2bo3bob2obobo2bo2bob2obo3bo4b2o$4bobobo2b2o2bobo3bo2bob
2ob2o4b4o3b2o3bo$4b2obobo2bob2o2bobo3bo3bo2bob2o3bobo2bob2obo$7bob2obo
bo2b2obobob2obo2bob2o2bobob2obo2bobo$7bobo2bobo4bobobo2b2ob2o4b2o2bo2b
ob2o2b2o$4b2obo3b2o2b4o2bo2bo3bo2bob2o2bobo2bo2bobo$4bobobo4bobo2bobob
2ob2obob2obo2b2ob2ob2o3bo$6bo2bo3bo4bobo2bo2bo2bo3bo6bo3b3o$5bob3o2b2o
3b2ob2o2bo2bobo3b2o5bob2o$5bo8b2o5bob2ob2ob2o3bo4b2obo2b4o$4b2o3b5o2b
4o3bo2bo3bo3bob2o2bo2bobo3bo$4bo4bo5bo3bobo3bo2b2o3b2o2b2o2b3o4b2o$6bo
4bo4bobo2b2o3b2o4bo2bo3b2o3bo2bo$5b2o3b2o3b2obobo2bo4b2o2bob2ob2o2bo2b
o2bo$5bo3bo2b2o3bobob2obo3bobobo3bobobobob2ob2o$7bo2bobob2o3bo2bo2bo3b
obob2o4bob2o2bo2bo$2b2o2b2ob2o4bobo2bobob2o5bobob3obo3bo2bo$2bobo2bo3b
o3bob2obo2bo2b2o2b2obo2bobob2ob2ob2o$4b2obo3bo2b2o2bob2obobo2bo3bobo3b
o2bo2bobo2bo$2bo2bo2b2ob2o3bobo3bobob2ob2o3b2o2bo2bo2bo3b2o$2b2o2bobob
o2b4o2b2obobo2bo2bobo3bob2ob2ob2o$3bob2o4bo5bobobo3bo2bo2bob2obo2bo2bo
3bo$3bo2bo2b2ob2o2b2o4b2ob2ob2obo2bo2bo2bo2bobobo$2obo2bobobobobo3bo4b
o2bobo2bo2bob2ob2ob2obo2bo$obob2o2bo3bo2b4o4bo2bobo2b2obo3bo3bo3bobo$
2bo2bobobo2b3o6b2ob2o2b3o2bob2o2b2o2bob2ob2o$bob2o2bob3o3b2o3bobo2bobo
3bo3bob2o2b2o4bo$bo5bo4bo2bobo2bo2bobo2bo2b2o2bo3bo2bob2obo$2o4b2o3b2o
3bo2b2o3bo2b2o5b2o3b2o2bob2o!

They are not generally interesting, unless they do something remarkable eg. gets moved 7 cells when hit with a glider. There are also infinitely many p2 oscillators:
x = 49, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
11bo4b2ob2ob2obo4b2obobo4b2o2b2ob2o$3b2o2b2obobo2bobobo3bob3o3bob2obo
3bobo2bobo$2bo2bo2bob2o5bo3b2o5bo2bo4bo5bobo2bo$3bob2o7b2ob2o3bob2ob2o
3bob2o3bo2bobobo$2b2o5b2obo4bo2bobo2bobo3b2obo3bobob2obo$bo2b2o2b3o2b
2o2bob2o2bobo2bo3bobo2bob2o2bo$4b2ob2o4b3obo4b2o2bobo2bo2bobob2o3b5o$b
obo2bo2bobo3b2ob2o3bob2o2bobobo2bobo2b2o3bo$2o2bobo2b2ob2o4bobob3o2b2o
bob2o2bo5bobo3bo$2ob4o5b2o3bob2obob2obob2obo3b3ob2obob4o$2o4bob4o3bobo
2bobo6bo2b3ob3ob3o$4bob2obobob2ob2o2bo4b2obo4bo3b2o4bob2o$2obo3bobo4bo
bo3bo2b4obobobobo6b3o2bo$bob4o3bo2b2ob3ob2obo4bobo2b3o2b3o2bobo$bo4bob
o2bobobo3bobo2b2o3b2obo2bobo4b2ob2o$2bobo3b4o4bo2bob2obo2b3o3b2o2bob2o
bo2bo2bo$b2ob2o2bo2bob4o2bo2bobob2o2b3o2b3o2bobo2bob2o$2bobo4b2o3bo2bo
bobo2bobo5bobo3bo3bob2obo$bo3bo5b2obobo2b2o3bo2b4obo2bo2b2o2bo4bo$b2ob
2o5bob2ob2o5b2o4bobo2b2o5b2o4b2o!

These are the same as still lives, they are not interesting unless they do something.
What IS semi-interesting, though, are spaceships. You can find them using WLS, too. for example:
x = 35, y = 121, rule = B3/S23
6bo2bob2o$5bobobo3bo$3b2o6b5o$2b2o4b2ob3o$b2o2b2obobo4bo$2o2bo3bo4bo$b
o3bo2bo4b2o$4bo3bo4b2ob3o$3b2o5b2obo5b5o$12b4ob7o$15bo3b4o$b2o5b4o4b2o
$2ob2o3bo3bo2bo$b4o3bo7b2o$2b2o5bo4bo$14bob2o$4bobo4b2o2b2ob5o$3bo3bo
2b2o6b5o$b2o5bobo4bo2bob2o$2o2bo2bo3b2obo$b2o2bo5bob3o$2b2o2b3o3b2obo$
3b2o5b2o$5bobobob2o$7bo2bo5$15b4o$5bo9bo3bo$2b5o8bo$b2o5b2o6bo2bo$2o3b
2o2b2o$bob2o3bobo4bo4b2o$2b2o7b3obo4b2o$8bo3bo7bo$4bo2bo4bo2bob2obob2o
$5bo7bo3bobo4bo$3b3o6bo2bobobobobo$2bo3bo4b3obo4bo$b2o4bo2b2obobo4b3o$
2ob2obobo2bo9b2o$bo6b4o$2b3o4b2o4b4o$4bo2bo7bo3bo$15bo$16bo2bo4$16bo2b
o$15bo$5bo9bo3bo$2b5o8b4o$b2o5b2o11b4o2bo5bo$2o3b2o2b2o9bo3bo3bo4bo$bo
b2o3bobo4bo4b2ob2o6bobo$2b2o7b3obo3b2o4b2o2b2o$8bo3bo12b3ob3o$4bo2bo4b
o2bob2o6b3obob2o$5bo7bo3b4o4b2o5bo$3b3o6bo2bobob2o9bob3o$2bo3bo4b3obo
3b2ob4o3b3ob2o$b2o4bo2b2obobo4bob2obo4b4o$2ob2obobo2bo9bo4bo7bo$bo6b4o
4bo2bo2bo2bo$2b3o4b2o4bo6bo2bo$4bo2bo7bo3bo$15b4o6$16bo2bo$15bo$5bo9bo
3bo$2b5o8b4o$b2o5b2o11b4o2bo$2o3b2o2b2o9bo3bo3bo$bob2o3bobo4bo4b2ob2o$
2b2o7b3obo3b2o4b2o$8bo3bo12b3o$4bo2bo4bo2bob2o6b3o$5bo7bo3b4o4b2o$3b3o
6bo2bobob2o$2bo3bo4b3obo3b2ob4o$b2o4bo2b2obobo4bob2obo$2ob2obobo2bo9bo
4bo$bo6b4o4bo2bo2bo2bo$2b3o4b2o4bo6bo2bo$4bo2bo7bo3bo$15b4o5$12bobo$
11bo2bo2b4o$2bobo5b2o5bo3bo$b2o7bobo4bo$2o2b2obo2b2o6bo$b2ob2o4bob3o8b
o$5bo4b2ob2o5b2o$5bo4bob5obobobo$7bo8b5o$17bo2bo$b2o6b2o$2ob3o2b2ob6o$
b5o3b10o$2b3o5b3o4b2o$14bob2o2bo$6b2o2b3obo$2b2o2b2o2b3o7b3o$b4o4bo11b
2o$2o5bob3o$bobo3bo2bo6b4o$2b4o4b2o5bo3bo$3bo7bo2bo2bo$12bobo3bo2bo!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You should post your "discoveries" in Patterns > Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Good luck and happy lifeing
Also +1 Sokwe
If you're the person that uploaded to Sakagolue illegally, please PM me.
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

(Check gen 2)
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby calcyman » March 4th, 2017, 1:11 am

mniemiec wrote:Nick Gotts gave a paper at the CA98 conference that dealt with naturalness. I will try to reconstruct some of the basic ideas from memory, although my understanding is fairly imperfect.

Assume that the initial universe is seeded with random cells, with a probability p (where p is close to 0) that any given cell is alive. Random bits occur with probability O(p), close bit-pairs with probability O(p^2), triplets with probability O(p^3), etc. Since all triplets either die or form blinkers or blocks in one generation, these are called "blonks". The first interesting patterns occur at O(p^5) (gliders, and R-pentominos that also make gliders). Arbitrary n-bit objects and patterns occur with a probability at most O(p^n), although if they can be synthesized easily, say, from g gliders, they would be O(p^5g), if 5g<n.


I think Nick Gotts' idea was that most objects will be produced by an 'inverse slow salvo' comprising a single R-pentomino and some distant blonks. Everything expressible in this way (including everything with a glider synthesis) would still be O(p^5).
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby SamskyCats » March 14th, 2017, 4:53 pm

I saw this while using gfind, I'm not sure if it's new or not
x = 15, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
b2obobobobob2o$
o3b3ob3o3bo$
bob2obobob2obo$
2bob2o3b2obo$
5bo3bo2$
5bo3bo$
6b3o$
6b3o!
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby dvgrn » March 14th, 2017, 5:05 pm

SamskyCats wrote:I saw this while using gfind, I'm not sure if it's new or not..

It's a dart, originally found by David Bell in 1992.

Usually -- but not always, see copperhead and loafer -- things that can be discovered by a short search with a known utility have been discovered before, most likely multiple times.

More specifically,
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby SamskyCats » March 14th, 2017, 5:13 pm

Thanks. Is this thread also for rules other than conway life?
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby dvgrn » March 14th, 2017, 5:24 pm

SamskyCats wrote:Thanks. Is this thread also for rules other than conway life?

Discoveries in other rules generally end up on the Other Cellular Automata board, under Thread for Your Accidental Discoveries that Aren't in CGOL or Miscellaneous Discoveries in Other Cellular Automata.

I don't think we have an exact match for "unsure discoveries". I suppose rediscoveries are an awful lot less likely in other CAs -- it's mostly only B3/S23 that's been investigated obsessively for 47 years...!
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby A for awesome » March 21st, 2017, 2:44 pm

A p6 LWSS-to-G found while randomly looking through jslife and tinkering:
x = 17, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
11b2o$11b3o$10bob2o$10b3o$11bo3$3b2o$3bo5bobobo$2obo5bobobobo$ob2ob2ob
2o6bo$5bobo3b2ob2o$5bob4obobo$6bo3bobobo$7bo3bobo$8bo3bo$7b2o!

May or may not be known.
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all

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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby gmc_nxtman » March 21st, 2017, 2:55 pm

A for awesome wrote:A p6 LWSS-to-G found while randomly looking through jslife and tinkering...
May or may not be known.


Interesting! I don't think that one's known.

It looks like it uses a similar mechanism to the bilateral head-on collisions seen in Double X. Is that how you found it? It looks like it could be used to reduce pseudo-period guns in the gun collection...
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby A for awesome » March 21st, 2017, 2:59 pm

gmc_nxtman wrote:It looks like it uses a similar mechanism to the bilateral head-on collisions seen in Double X. Is that how you found it?


I actually saw the sparker in jslife/osc/o0006-spark.lif and wondered what the spark was for. So I tried a LWSS, and found that.

There are likely sparkers of other periods that work as well.
Last edited by A for awesome on March 21st, 2017, 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all

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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby calcyman » March 21st, 2017, 3:00 pm

It definitely is already known, but I'm not sure who discovered it (Sokwe, maybe? Or DRH?).
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby A for awesome » March 22nd, 2017, 4:26 pm

Is there any way to clean this half-oscillator up to make an actual p130 (see gen. 65)?:
x = 34, y = 24, rule = B3/S23
8bo$7bobo$7bobo$6b2ob3o$12bo$6b2ob3o$6b2obo5bo$14bobo$12b3obo$11bo4b2o
bo$11bob2o3b2o5b2o$10b2obob2o8bobo$9bo3bobob5o5b3o$8b3ob2o8bo3bo3bo$8b
o3b2o3b2o2bo5b2obo$3o5bo8bob2o6b2obob2o$obo5bo7bo2b3o2bo3bobo2bo$obo5b
o3b2ob2ob2o7bo2b2o$8b3ob2ob2o5b2obo2bobo$9bo3bobo8b2ob2obo$10b2obobob
2o6bobo2b2o$11bob2obo2bo3bobobobo$11bo4bobo4b2o3b2o$10b2o4b2o!

EDIT: P5 ship hassler which may or may not be known:
x = 31, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
18b2o$14b2o2bo$13bo2bobo$9b2obo2bo2b2o$9bob2obobobo$14b3o3bo$10b4obob
3obo$9bo3bo3bo3bo$10b3o5b3o$3b2o2bo4bob3obo4b2o$3bo2bobo4b5o4bo2bo$4bo
bobo5b3o5bobo2bo2bo$3b2obob2o11b2obob5o$2bo3bo3bo9bo2b2o$bobobo4bo3b2o
3b3o3b2obo$bo3b2o3bo3bobo2b3o2b2obobo$2b2obo4bo4b2o2b3o3b2o2bo$6bo3bo
9bo2b2o3bo$5obob2o11b2obob2o$o2bo2bobo13bobobo$5bo2bo4b5o4bobo2bo$6b2o
4bo5bo4bo2b2o$10b3o5b3o$9bo11bo$9bob3obob4o$10bo3b3o$12bo5b2obo$11b2ob
obobob2o$12bobo2bo$12bo2b2o$11b2o!

Works at any period >=5 with a dot sparker or analog that fits.
EDIT: A p7+ one:
x = 63, y = 63, rule = B3/S23
35b2o$36bo2bo2bo4b2o$34bo4b6o2bo$33bob4o6bobo$33bobo4b5o2b2o$31bobo2bo
bobobo2bobo$29b3ob2obo5bob2obo$24b2o2bo3b2o3b4obobo2b2o$24bo2bob2o3b3o
4b2obobo$25b3o2bobobo2b3o3bo2bo$28bo2b3o2bo3b3o3b2o$27bo4bo4bo2bo$27b
2o7b2o2$27b4o3b4o17bo2bo2bo$26bo3bobobo3bo13bo2b7o$24bo2b2o2b3o2b2o2bo
11b3o$24b2obo9bob2o15b2obo$25bobo3bobo3bobo14b3obobo$25bobobo5bobobo
13bo4bobo$26bobobobobobobo13bob5ob2o$28bobobobobo15bobo3bobo$27bob2o3b
2obo7b2o4b2o2bob2obo$7b2o7b2o9bo3b3o3bo5b3o7bobo4b2o$7bobo7b3o8b3o3b3o
5bo4bo5bobobobo$9bo5bo4bo9bo3bo4b2o2b4obob2obobo3bo$8b2ob2obob4o2b2o
14bo2b2o3bobobobobob2obob2o$7bo2bobobobo3b2o2bo7bo5bobo2bo4bo5bo3b2o2b
o$6bobo5bo3b2o2bobo7bo4b2ob3o4b2o4b2obo3bo$6bob2o4b2o5b2ob2o13bo4bobo
5bo2b5o$5b2o2bo7bo3bobo2bo3b2o2b2o3bob2o3b2o3b3obo$7b3o7bo3b2o2b3o2bob
o6bo4bobo5bo3b2o$3b4o2bo7bo3bobo2bo4b2o4b2ob3o4b2o4b2obo$2bo3bob2o4b2o
5b2ob2o12bobo2bo4bo5bobo$o2b4obo5bo3b2o2bobo13bo2b2o3bobobobo2bo$2obo
2bobobobobobo3b2o2bo6bo7b2o2b4obob2ob2o$3bobobobob2obob4o2b2o6b3o9bo4b
o5bo$3b2o2bobo5bo4bo8bobobo9b3o7bobo$b2o2bobobo7b3o7b3o3b3o9b2o7b2o$2b
o3b2o2b2o4b2o8bo3bobo3bo$2bobo3bobo15bob2obob2obo$b2o2b4obo16bob5obo$
2bobo4bo15bobo7bobo$2bobob3o15bobobo5bobobo$3b4o17bobobo5bobobo$8b3o
12b2obo3b3o3bob2o$b7o2bo12bo2b2o7b2o2bo$bo2bo2bo17bo3bo3bo3bo$26b4o3b
4o2$26b2o7b2o$23bo2bo9bo$16b2o3b3o3bo7bo$17bo2bo3b3o2b5o2b3o$17bobob2o
4b3obob2obo2bo$15b2o2bobob4o4bo3bo2b2o$16bob2obobo3b4ob3o$16bobo2bo2bo
bobobobo$15b2ob3obo2bo2bobo$16bobo6b4obo$16bo2b6o4bo$15b2o4bo2bo2bo$
27b2o!
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all

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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby BlinkerSpawn » March 22nd, 2017, 4:42 pm

A for awesome wrote:Is there any way to clean this half-oscillator up to make an actual p130 (see gen. 65)?:
x = 34, y = 24, rule = B3/S23
8bo$7bobo$7bobo$6b2ob3o$12bo$6b2ob3o$6b2obo5bo$14bobo$12b3obo$11bo4b2o
bo$11bob2o3b2o5b2o$10b2obob2o8bobo$9bo3bobob5o5b3o$8b3ob2o8bo3bo3bo$8b
o3b2o3b2o2bo5b2obo$3o5bo8bob2o6b2obob2o$obo5bo7bo2b3o2bo3bobo2bo$obo5b
o3b2ob2ob2o7bo2b2o$8b3ob2ob2o5b2obo2bobo$9bo3bobo8b2ob2obo$10b2obobob
2o6bobo2b2o$11bob2obo2bo3bobobobo$11bo4bobo4b2o3b2o$10b2o4b2o!

The answer appears to be no but maybe there's some weird cleanup out there that works.
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Postby A for awesome » March 23rd, 2017, 1:08 pm

Can anyone find a way to complete this p120 pre-pulsar hassler without resorting to guns? The Karel's p15s shown here almost work, and p40 traffic jam oscillators work but don't fit:
x = 45, y = 45, rule = B3/S23
11b3o$10bo3bo4bo$10bo3bo3bobo$11b3o4bob2o$17b2o3$17b2o$11b3o4bob2o$10b
o3bo3bobo$10bo3bo4bo14b2o6b2o$11b3o19bo2bo4bo2bo$33bo2bo4bo2bo$33bo2bo
4bo2bo$34b2o6b2o3$37bo2bo$35b3o2b3o$34bo8bo$35b2o4b2o$36bo4bo2$3bo4bo$
2b2o4b2o$bo8bo4b3o3b3o$2b3o2b3o6bo5bo$4bo2bo3$b2o6b2o$o2bo4bo2bo$o2bo
4bo2bo$o2bo4bo2bo19b3o$b2o6b2o14bo4bo3bo$24bobo3bo3bo$23b2obo4b3o$26b
2o3$26b2o$23b2obo4b3o$24bobo3bo3bo$25bo4bo3bo$31b3o!


EDIT: A potential synthesis here:
x = 5, y = 6, rule = B3/S23
3b2o$bobo$4bo$3bo$b2o$o!
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

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