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Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 7th, 2018, 4:02 pm
by danny
Aw, dang. (2,1)c-horse was almost too good.

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 7th, 2018, 4:57 pm
by HartmutHolzwart
Congratulations! A real milestone in the history of CGOL!

I get it that there are no close cousins or small tagalongs?

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 7th, 2018, 5:38 pm
by fluffykitty
Not yet, anyways.

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 7th, 2018, 5:43 pm
by 77topaz
HartmutHolzwart wrote:Congratulations! A real milestone in the history of CGOL!

I get it that there are no close cousins or small tagalongs?


A few hours after the discovery of this ship, Goucher/Calcyman said he was still running the search based on Rokicki's partials, so there may be related patterns yet.

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 7th, 2018, 5:47 pm
by greyknight
Macbi wrote:I wonder if this will attract lots of new users to the forum in the same way that Gemini or Copperhead did? Maybe we should post some links on HackerNews and r/cellular_automata to get the publicity ball rolling?


Well, I heard about it before either of those but yes I'm new here specifically to join the congratulations. Never thought I would see the day!

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 7th, 2018, 5:54 pm
by Gamedziner
Please update Parallel HBK, as it still says it's the smallest known slope 2 oblique spaceship in CGOL.
Waterbear needs updating as well.

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 7th, 2018, 6:02 pm
by AforAmpere
How does one run ikpx? Can you give an example as to what a search that finds a C/3 would be, for example?

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 7th, 2018, 6:43 pm
by Extrementhusiast
calcyman wrote:
Macbi wrote:I found the repeat time, which is 196.


Extrementhusiast, any hopes for a p210 gun based on this?


No, I think we may have to wait another 14 years for that.

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 7th, 2018, 6:47 pm
by 77topaz
Extrementhusiast wrote:
calcyman wrote:Extrementhusiast, any hopes for a p210 gun based on this?


No, I think we may have to wait another 14 years for that.


Yeah, we'd need the glider synthesis first, right? And that would probably be very difficult to find.

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 7th, 2018, 7:27 pm
by calcyman
Macbi wrote:I wonder if this will attract lots of new users to the forum in the same way that Gemini or Copperhead did? Maybe we should post some links on HackerNews and r/cellular_automata to get the publicity ball rolling?


Tom and I are intending to write a paper on the subject, and I'll post a (less technical) cp4space article describing the discovery and the ideas involved -- ideally could you please wait until then before 'going public'?

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 7th, 2018, 7:50 pm
by 77topaz
calcyman wrote:
Macbi wrote:I wonder if this will attract lots of new users to the forum in the same way that Gemini or Copperhead did? Maybe we should post some links on HackerNews and r/cellular_automata to get the publicity ball rolling?


Tom and I are intending to write a paper on the subject, and I'll post a (less technical) cp4space article describing the discovery and the ideas involved -- ideally could you please wait until then before 'going public'?


Well, it's already been posted on Reddit, and anyone who sees this website can find out about it anyway, so it's basically already gone public. :P

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 7th, 2018, 7:58 pm
by calcyman
77topaz wrote:
calcyman wrote:
Macbi wrote:I wonder if this will attract lots of new users to the forum in the same way that Gemini or Copperhead did? Maybe we should post some links on HackerNews and r/cellular_automata to get the publicity ball rolling?


Tom and I are intending to write a paper on the subject, and I'll post a (less technical) cp4space article describing the discovery and the ideas involved -- ideally could you please wait until then before 'going public'?


Well, it's already been posted on Reddit, and anyone who sees this website can find out about it anyway, so it's basically already gone public. :P


I mean prior to posting on Hacker News, Slashdot, and the like.

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 7th, 2018, 9:01 pm
by cordership3
Impressive! I had expected something to appear after those partials posted a while back, but I didn't expect a knightship to appear that quickly. My first reaction to seeing that was "Is that pattern in an OCA?" :lol:

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 7th, 2018, 9:15 pm
by Majestas32
When I saw the !sim 18 I was looking for some slight difference between the initial and filank configuration

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 8th, 2018, 4:54 am
by Macbi
calcyman wrote:I mean prior to posting on Hacker News, Slashdot, and the like.
Well I already posted a link to HN but it didn't take off. I think a nontechnical article is needed for people to appreciate the brilliance.

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 8th, 2018, 6:11 am
by Goldtiger997
Congratulations (sir) calcyman and (sir) rokicki! This is very impressive. I also like the name (I am a fan of monty python).
I was hoping that calcyman would find a knightship with his search, but I was actually expecting him to sneakily hide it somewhere such as apgsearch or catagolue.

Yes this is almost definitely POTY. If it is, then it will be the third time in a row the POTY competition has been won by a new spaceship. The only thing I can think of that could possibly challenge this as POTY is a proof of omniperiocity.

I think for most people, (2,1)c/6 has been the most "wanted" speed, but now that it has been found, what is the most "wanted" speed? Is it c/8, (1,1)c/8, (2,1)c/7, (3,1)c/8, c/9, or c/19?

Anyway, something I'm quite interested to know is what is it about ikpx that made it succeed where many other programs have failed? With suitable modifications, would it also be more effective than gfind and zfind but for speeds like c/8?

Again, congratulations to calcyman and rokicki.

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 8th, 2018, 6:19 am
by Macbi
I'd say the new most wanted speed is (3,1)c/8, since it's the simplest speed where it isn't know if it is achievable. Maybe the same tools can do the job? (With some slowdown due to the increase in period.) If they did manage to find a (3,1)c/8 then I'd expect a (4,1)c/10 or (3,2)c/10 to follow soon afterwards. After that the period might be a bit too high.

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 8th, 2018, 6:33 am
by 77topaz
Macbi wrote:I'd say the new most wanted speed is (3,1)c/8, since it's the simplest speed where it isn't know if it is achievable. Maybe the same tools can do the job? (With some slowdown due to the increase in period.) If they did manage to find a (3,1)c/8 then I'd expect a (4,1)c/10 or (3,2)c/10 to follow soon afterwards. After that the period might be a bit too high.


There's a couple more possible knightship speeds in that window, though, namely (2,1)c/7, (2,1)c/8, (3,1)c/9, (2,1)c/9, (3,1)c/10 and (2,1)c/10. We could easily exhaust the Knights of the Round Table before we exhaust our searching technology. :P

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 8th, 2018, 7:09 am
by Macbi
77topaz wrote:
Macbi wrote:I'd say the new most wanted speed is (3,1)c/8, since it's the simplest speed where it isn't know if it is achievable. Maybe the same tools can do the job? (With some slowdown due to the increase in period.) If they did manage to find a (3,1)c/8 then I'd expect a (4,1)c/10 or (3,2)c/10 to follow soon afterwards. After that the period might be a bit too high.


There's a couple more possible knightship speeds in that window, though, namely (2,1)c/7, (2,1)c/8, (3,1)c/9, (2,1)c/9, (3,1)c/10 and (2,1)c/10. We could easily exhaust the Knights of the Round Table before we exhaust our searching technology. :P
Although any new elementary spaceship speed is a good discovery, those aren't as interesting to me because we already know that ships can travel at those speeds (with much higher periods).

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 8th, 2018, 9:43 am
by gameoflifemaniac
Maybe instead of talking about the revolutionary ship, we should find a smaller knightship!

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 8th, 2018, 10:05 am
by dvgrn
Macbi wrote:If they did manage to find a (3,1)c/8 then I'd expect a (4,1)c/10 or (3,2)c/10 to follow soon afterwards. After that the period might be a bit too high.

77topaz wrote:There's a couple more possible knightship speeds in that window, though, namely (2,1)c/7, (2,1)c/8, (3,1)c/9, (2,1)c/9, (3,1)c/10 and (2,1)c/10. We could easily exhaust the Knights of the Round Table before we exhaust our searching technology. :P

This seems like a serious case of counting chickens before they're hatched, or spaceships before they're knighted.

Unless the SAT search technique turns out to be completely different from every other search technology, things get exponentially harder every time you increase the period. Even if the increase is only something reasonable like a factor of ten or a hundred, you might be looking at 10 months of CPU time to dig up a (2,1)c/7 (versus a month for Sir Robin), and on up to a million CPU-months for (2,1)c/10 or (3,2)c/10. The numbers may look close, but the time estimates are worlds apart.

Of course something small and elegant could show up early in a search for any of these cases, but that probably won't happen for every one of those speeds -- and if you look just a little farther than the limited Monty Python cast, there are plenty of knights in the old King Arthur stories.

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 8th, 2018, 10:52 am
by Majestas32
I'd like to see (2,1)c/8 personally. Since then we can make the STAR OF MUZIK

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 8th, 2018, 2:53 pm
by Extrementhusiast
Eater Mk. I for Sir Robin (and not his minstrels), repeat time 557:
x = 176, y = 354, rule = B3/S23
67b2o$67bobo$69bo4b2o$44b2o19b4ob2o2bo2bo$44bobo18bo2bobobobob2o$46bo
4b2o15bobobobo$42b4ob2o2bo2bo14b2obobo$42bo2bobobobob2o18bo$45bobobobo
$46b2obobo7b2o$50bo9bo7b2o$60bobo5b2o$36b2o23b2o$37bo7b2o$37bobo5b2o$
38b2o$27b2o$26bo2bo3b2o$26bobo3bobo$27bob4obob2o33b2o22bo$29bo4bo2bo
33bo3bo17b3o$28bo3b2obo36b4o16bo$27bo3bobob2o11b2o42b2o$27b2o3bo15bo
21b4o$49b3o17bo3bo$21b2o28bo17b2o29b2o$22bo78bo$22bobo76bob2o$23b2o52b
2o14b2o4b3o2bo$78bo14b2o3bo3b2o$78bob2o16b4o$70b2o4b3o2bo2b2o15bo$70b
2o3bo3bobobobo12b3o$75b4o2bobo13bo$61b2o15bobo2bo14b5o$60bobo12b3o2bob
o19bo$60bo13bo5b2o18bo$59b2o14b5o20b2o$79bo$77bo$77b2o9$63bo$63b3o$66b
o$65b2o2$24b2o$23bobo$23bo$22b2o2$75b2o$68b2o5bobo$58b2o8b2o7bo$58bo
18b2o$56bobo$56b2o6bo$63bobob2o$63bobobobo$60b2obobobobo2bo$60bo2bo2b
2ob4o$62b2o4bo$68bobo$69b2o4$9bo$9b3o$12bo$11b2o14b2o$26bobo$26bo$3b2o
20b2o$3bo$2obo$o2b3o4b2o$b2o3bo3b2o$3b4o$3bo15b2o$4b3o12bobo$7bo13bo
34b2o$2b5o14b2o33bo2bo$2bo53bo3bo$4bo53b3o$3b2o28b2o19b2o6b4o$33b2o19b
ob2o4b4o$53bo4bo6b3o$54b4o4b2o3bo$52bo9b2o$53bo3bo$35bo22b3o2b2o2bo$
33b3o18b2o7bo4bo$32bo32bob2o$32b2o28b2o6bo$63b2ob3obo$62b2o3bo2bo$62bo
bo2b2o$62bo2bobobo$62b3o6bo$63bobobo3bo$22b2o42b2obobo$21bobo5b2o32bo
6b3o$21bo7b2o$20b2o41bo9bo$63bo3bo6bo$34bo29bo5b5o$30b2obobo28b3o$29bo
bobobo32b2o$26bo2bobobobob2o26b3o2bo$26b4ob2o2bo2bo24bob3obo$30bo4b2o
25bo3bo2bo$28bobo32bo4b2ob3o$28b2o35b4obo4b2o$65bob4o4b2o$71bo$72bo2b
2o$72b2o$73b5o$77b2o$71b3o6bo$72bobo3bobo$71bo3bo3bo$71bo3b2o$70bo6bob
3o$71b2o3bo3b2o$72b4o2bo2bo$74b2o3bo$73bo$73b2obo$72bo$71b5o$71bo4bo$
70b3ob3o$70bob5o$70bo$72bo$68bo4b4o$72b4ob2o$69b3o4bo$76bobo$80bo$76bo
2b2o$77b3o$74b2o$73b3o5bo$76b2o2bobo$73bo2b3obobo$74b2obo2bo$76bobo2b
2o$78b2o$74b3o4bo$74b3o4bo$75b2o3b3o$76b2ob2o$77b2o$77bo2$76b2o$78bo
108$149b2o$148b2o$150b2obo$148bo3b3ob2o$147b6ob2o2bo$146b2ob2o4bo$146b
o4bo6bobo$146b5o4b3o2bo$146b3obo4b2o$151b2o2bobo$147bo3b2o3b2o$152bo3b
o2bobo$155b3o2b3o$155b2obo$157bob3ob2o$155bo2bo$154b2obo2bobo$154b2o2b
3o$155bo2bo2bobo$155b2obob2o2b2o$157bob3o$163b3o$164b2o2$156b2o6bo2bo$
156b2obo4b4o$157b2o3b5o$157bo3b2o$157b2o4bo$157bo4b2o$155b5o2bo2bo$
158bo5b2o$157b2o6bob3o$158bo4b2o3b2o$161b4o$164b3o$165bo4bo$165b7o$
168bob2o$164b3o3b2o$167bo5bo$164b2ob3o2bo$163b2o3b2ob2o$163bobo2bobobo
bo$164b2ob5o3bo$164b2o3bo2bobo$165bo2bo$166bo$165b3o$164bo$164bob3o$
169bo$163bo6bo$162b2obo3bo$165bob2o$166b3o$169b2o$162b4o4bo$163b5obobo
$163bo6bo$170bo2bo$170bo2bo$168b6o$166bob2obo$166bo7bo$166bo4b3obo$
167bo3bobo$167b2o4bobo$168b2obob2o$169bob5o$167bob2o2bo$170bo$167bo4bo
2bo$168bo3b2o$172bo$170b2o$169b2o$170bo$170bo!

Three excess gliders, three pieces of debris to clear. Seems simple enough.

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 8th, 2018, 3:25 pm
by dvgrn
Extrementhusiast wrote:Eater Mk. I for Sir Robin (and not his minstrels), repeat time 557...
Three excess gliders, three pieces of debris to clear. Seems simple enough.

Nice! I'm sure there's something that recovers quicker, but nothing in my bag of tricks is immediately helpful, and the utility of faster recovery is... highly questionable.

So is this construction to be called "The Gorge of Eternal Peril", "The Bridge of Death", or maybe just "Bridgekeeper"?

"Who would cross the Bridge of Death must reflect these gliders three, ere the other side he see..."

Re: Elementary knightship

PostPosted: March 8th, 2018, 3:30 pm
by Macbi