Page 2 of 3
Re: Crawlers
Posted: August 9th, 2017, 5:50 am
by Rhombic
AforAmpere wrote:I also can't find a 1G reaction to get the block in the right spot.
I mean a reaction with the LoM before it settles into the blocks on the left hand side.
And for the reflection, I was thinking of something like this:
Code: Select all
x = 81, y = 173, rule = LifeHistory
2C$2C3$.2C$.2C16.2A$19.2A22$2C$2C3$.2C$.2C16.2A$19.2A10$79.2C$79.2C3$
78.2C$60.2A16.2C$60.2A6$2C$2C3$.2C$.2C16.2A$19.2A10$79.2C$79.2C3$78.
2C$60.2A16.2C$60.2A6$2C$2C3$.2C$.2C16.2A$19.2A10$79.2C$79.2C3$78.2C$
60.2A16.2C$60.2A6$2C$2C3$.2C$.2C16.2A$19.2A8$11.A$10.3A$10.A.2A65.2C$
79.2C3$78.2C$60.2A16.2C$60.2A22$79.2C$79.2C3$78.2C$60.2C16.2C$60.2C8$
69.A$68.3A$67.2A.A!
This reaction in particular doesn't give what we wanted, but you get the idea.
Re: Crawlers
Posted: August 9th, 2017, 6:34 am
by Gamedziner
Rhombic wrote:And for the reflection, I was thinking of something like this:
The problem there is that the two tracks would eventually converge.
Re: Crawlers
Posted: August 9th, 2017, 7:23 am
by Rhombic
Gamedziner wrote:The problem there is that the two tracks would eventually converge.
Well yeah, but isn't that how 31/240 etc work? you set up something to delete the last B-heptomino and connect a synthesis at a translation.
What qualifies as a promising reaction otherwise? We've probably found most of the single transparent still-life mechanisms (and otherwise this should have been done by now!! someone get on with C++, I'll donate my CPU)
Re: Crawlers
Posted: August 12th, 2017, 10:03 pm
by biggiemac
Rhombic wrote:Gamedziner wrote:The problem there is that the two tracks would eventually converge.
Well yeah, but isn't that how 31/240 etc work? you set up something to delete the last B-heptomino and connect a synthesis at a translation.
Your understanding of the prior work seems wrong, the crawlers are not deleted in any of the fast ships. The only one where an crawler seems to be deleted and resynthesized is the HBK, since the glider is destroyed and rebuilt. But I argue that the glider isn't even the "crawler" in the HBK, but rather the "crawlee."
A reaction shifting two tracks relative to one another isn't a dealbreaker, but it makes things harder for sure. You probably want to work with non-mirrored track pairs in trying to patch this up.
What qualifies as a promising reaction?
The ideal is the following. Have some pair of objects at t=0, let's call them C1 and C2. C1 is the crawler and can be arbitrarily complex, C2 the "crawlee" and needs to be a regular pattern (periodic or periodic-with-offset like a spaceship).
At time t=T, the universe again consists of C1 and C2, but C1 is displaced by vector V1 with components (A1, B1), and C2 displaced by V2 with components (A2, B2), and possibly advanced by G2 generations. Examples:
C1 = Pi
C2 = Blinker
T = 45
V1 = (0, 17)
V2 = (0, -11)
G2 = 1
Code: Select all
x = 5, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
2bo$2bo$2bo12$b3o$o3bo$2ob2o!
C1 = Herschel
C2 = Block
T = 240
V1 = (0, 31)
V2 = (0, -22) or (-8, -4)
G2 = 0
Extra block and 2 gliders
Code: Select all
x = 10, y = 26, rule = B3/S23
8b2o$8b2o22$3o$bo$b3o!
C1 = Herschel
C2 = Glider
T = 79
V1 = (23, 5)
V2 = (-27, -29)
G2 = 1
Extra glider
Code: Select all
x = 16, y = 18, rule = B3/S23
15bo$13b2o$14b2o13$3o$bo$b3o!
C1 = Herschel
C2 = Glider
T = 72
V1 = (27, 1)
V2 = (-22, -38)
G2 = 0
Extra bunch of junk
Code: Select all
x = 14, y = 28, rule = B3/S23
11bobo$11b2o$12bo23$3o$bo$b3o!
C1 = Half-Bakery
C2 = Glider
T = Anything more than 62
V1 = (6,3)
V2, G2 = Depends on T
Code: Select all
x = 16, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
b2o$o2bo$bobo$2bob2o$3bo2bo$4bobo$5bo5$13b2o$13bobo$13bo!
In all of these cases, the spaceship speed is V1 divided by T. C1 objects are not created or destroyed at any point in the ship. The challenge is for objects of type C2 to be created at the front and destroyed at the back. The displacement and phase shift of the second object simply tells where the next crawler must be for the reaction to repeat, which is important for the construction aspect but doesn't say much about the possibility/impossibility of the ship except for maybe giving a good idea about coset problems.
If C1 reappears but C2 is incompletely formed, it is usually really hard to do anything to salvage the crawler. If there is way too much junk, it's again usually really hard. If there is no junk at all, it depends on whether anything good comes out of rubbing multiple copies together.
If the goal is to dig up a ton of promising reactions, going into slightly more complex Cs would be a way to go. Either use multiple still lives and oscillators together as C2 (but bear in mind that the chance of having C2 fully rebuilt at any later T is way lower), or more exotic C1 (combinations of active objects, or just more odd ones).
Re: Crawlers
Posted: August 13th, 2017, 6:58 am
by Mr. T
By doubling muzik's crawler you get usable variations perhaps.
The second crawler restores the position of the blocks.
Code: Select all
x = 64, y = 387, rule = B3/S23
obo$obo$3o14b2o$17b2o2$4b2o$4b2o13$17bo$15bo2bo$14bo$17bo4bo$17b2o2bob
o$6b2o2b2o2bob2o4bo$6b2o2b2o3b2o3bo8$24b3o$24bobo$23bobo3$22bobo$22bob
o$22b3o3$8b2o16b2o$8b2o16b2o18$10b2o16b2o$10b2o16b2o18$12b2o16b2o$12b
2o16b2o18$14b2o16b2o$14b2o16b2o18$16b2o16b2o$16b2o16b2o18$18b2o16b2o$
18b2o16b2o18$20b2o16b2o$20b2o16b2o18$22b2o16b2o$22b2o16b2o18$24b2o16b
2o$24b2o16b2o18$26b2o16b2o$26b2o16b2o18$28b2o16b2o$28b2o16b2o18$30b2o
16b2o$30b2o16b2o18$32b2o16b2o$32b2o16b2o18$34b2o16b2o$34b2o16b2o18$36b
2o16b2o$36b2o16b2o18$38b2o16b2o$38b2o16b2o18$40b2o16b2o$40b2o16b2o18$
42b2o16b2o$42b2o16b2o18$44b2o16b2o$44b2o16b2o!
This produces gliders.
Code: Select all
x = 38, y = 219, rule = B3/S23
10bobo$10bobo$10b3o3$14b2o$14b2o2$2o$2o15$16b2o$16b2o2$2b2o$2b2o15$18b
2o$18b2o2$4b2o$4b2o15$20b2o$20b2o2$6b2o$6b2o15$22b2o$22b2o2$8b2o$8b2o
15$24b2o$24b2o2$10b2o$10b2o15$26b2o$26b2o2$12b2o$12b2o15$28b2o$28b2o2$
14b2o$14b2o15$30b2o$30b2o2$16b2o$16b2o15$32b2o$32b2o2$18b2o$18b2o15$
34b2o$34b2o2$20b2o$20b2o15$36b2o$36b2o2$22b2o$22b2o!
2 rows of blocks are fused to 1.
Code: Select all
x = 42, y = 239, rule = B3/S23
12bobo$12bobo$12b3o3$16b2o$16b2o3$2o$2o14$18b2o$18b2o3$2b2o$2b2o14$20b
2o$20b2o3$4b2o$4b2o14$22b2o$22b2o3$6b2o$6b2o14$24b2o$24b2o3$8b2o$8b2o
14$26b2o$26b2o3$10b2o$10b2o14$28b2o$28b2o3$12b2o$12b2o14$30b2o$30b2o3$
14b2o$14b2o14$32b2o$32b2o3$16b2o$16b2o14$34b2o$34b2o3$18b2o$18b2o14$
36b2o$36b2o3$20b2o$20b2o14$38b2o$38b2o3$22b2o$22b2o14$40b2o$40b2o3$24b
2o$24b2o!
Re: Crawlers
Posted: August 13th, 2017, 7:01 am
by HartmutHolzwart
Thank you for this clear explanation with examples! A couple of ideas:
1) Could you add the (obvious) space ships based on the repective direction?
2) I miss the (13,1)c/31 reaction
3) How do the reactions used in the caterloopillar fit in the picture?
4) Glider duplicating *WSS fleets would be another (hard to control) type of reaction wher both reaction partners move
Re: Crawlers
Posted: February 25th, 2021, 5:32 pm
by C28
Code: Select all
x = 9, y = 14, rule = LifeHistory
.3D$D3.D$2D.2D3$2.2A$.A2.A$2.2A4$5.3C$4.C3.C$4.2C.2C!
Re: Crawlers
Posted: April 23rd, 2021, 4:58 pm
by C28
Code: Select all
x = 18, y = 122, rule = B3/S23
16b2o$16b2o34$2o$2o34$16b2o$16b2o34$2o$2o12$11b3o$11bobo$10bo2bo$10b2o
!
Re: Crawlers
Posted: April 23rd, 2021, 6:00 pm
by MathAndCode
C28 wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2021, 4:58 pm
Code: Select all
x = 18, y = 122, rule = B3/S23
16b2o$16b2o34$2o$2o34$16b2o$16b2o34$2o$2o12$11b3o$11bobo$10bo2bo$10b2o
!
I found that a while back.
Re: Crawlers
Posted: May 20th, 2021, 6:43 pm
by C28
(17,2)c/57
Code: Select all
x = 86, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
83b2o$83bobo$83bo$67b2o$66b2o$68bo$50b3o$50bo$35bo15bo$34b2o$34bobo$b
3o14b2o$o2bo14bobo$2obo14bo!
edit: so close...
Code: Select all
x = 16, y = 81, rule = B3/S23
b2o$o2bo$b2o24$11b2o$10bo2bo$11b2o24$b2o$o2bo$b2o24$6bo7b2o$5b3o6b2o$
5bo!
edit2: hmmm...
Code: Select all
x = 15, y = 81, rule = B3/S23
b2o$o2bo$b2o24$11b2o$10bo2bo$11b2o24$b2o$o2bo$b2o23$14bo$6bo7bo$5b3o6b
o$5bo!
edit 3: a blinker can clean up the debris left by the r-pentomino. maybe i should start a separate thread.
Code: Select all
x = 14, y = 81, rule = B3/S23
b2o$o2bo$b2o24$11b2o$10bo2bo$11b2o24$b2o$o2bo$b2o21$12bo$12bo$12bo$6b
o$5b3o$5bo!
edit 4: not the best but ok
Code: Select all
x = 15, y = 83, rule = B3/S23
2b2o$bo2bo$2b2o24$12b2o$11bo2bo$12b2o24$2b2o$bo2bo$2b2o24$7bo$6b3o$o5b
o$o$o!
edit 5: this is better
Code: Select all
x = 16, y = 81, rule = B3/S23
3b2o$2bo2bo$3b2o24$13b2o$12bo2bo$13b2o24$3b2o$2bo2bo$3b2o24$8bo$7b3o$
3o4bo!
edit 6: i'll have to keep searching...
Code: Select all
x = 19, y = 81, rule = B3/S23
6b2o$5bo2bo$6b2o24$16b2o$15bo2bo$16b2o24$6b2o$5bo2bo$6b2o24$o10bo$o9b
3o$o9bo!
Re: Crawlers
Posted: June 9th, 2021, 11:56 am
by C28
this looks somewhat promising
Code: Select all
x = 68, y = 112, rule = B3/S23
2bo$obo$b2o29$66b2o$66b2o17$21bobo$22b2o$22bo8$66b2o$66b2o27$66b2o$66b
2o9$43bo$44bo$42b3o10$58bo$57b3o$57bo!
Re: Crawlers
Posted: June 9th, 2021, 12:13 pm
by dvgrn
C28 wrote: ↑June 9th, 2021, 11:56 am
this looks somewhat promising
Code: Select all
x = 68, y = 112, rule = B3/S23
2bo$obo$b2o29$66b2o$66b2o17$21bobo$22b2o$22bo8$66b2o$66b2o27$66b2o$66b
2o9$43bo$44bo$42b3o10$58bo$57b3o$57bo!
That's an interesting one, for sure -- an orthogonal 28c/83 R-pentomino crawler! Produces two gliders for every input glider. I don't think that one has been seen before.
Code: Select all
x = 155, y = 335, rule = LifeSuper
2.M$M.M$.2M47$21.M.M$22.2M$22.M46$43.M$44.M$42.3M43$149.2M$149.2M3$
63.M$64.2M$63.2M22$149.2M$149.2M24$85.M$83.M.M$84.2M$149.2M$149.2M27$
149.2M$149.2M17$104.M.M$105.2M$105.M8$149.2M$149.2M27$149.2M$149.2M9$
126.M$127.M$125.3M8$146.M$144.M$141.M$140.3M2.M.M$140.M5.M9$138.M$
137.M$137.3M2$152.3M$154.M$153.M9$138.2M$138.2M$141.D$140.3D$140.D!
It's fast enough that it will need a helix to support the front end (>c/4).
I don't immediately see how to turn it into a set of trails that can support a choice of rakes (producing gliders) and rephasers (not producing any gliders). Seems like there ought to be some sneaky trick or other available, but how might we suppress the forward glider stream coming from the rightmost block trail?
Re: Crawlers
Posted: June 9th, 2021, 12:25 pm
by C28
dvgrn wrote: ↑June 9th, 2021, 12:13 pm
C28 wrote: ↑June 9th, 2021, 11:56 am
this looks somewhat promising
Code: Select all
x = 68, y = 112, rule = B3/S23
2bo$obo$b2o29$66b2o$66b2o17$21bobo$22b2o$22bo8$66b2o$66b2o27$66b2o$66b
2o9$43bo$44bo$42b3o10$58bo$57b3o$57bo!
That's an interesting one, for sure -- an orthogonal 28c/83 R-pentomino crawler! Produces two gliders for every input glider. I don't think that one has been seen before.
Code: Select all
x = 155, y = 335, rule = LifeSuper
2.M$M.M$.2M47$21.M.M$22.2M$22.M46$43.M$44.M$42.3M43$149.2M$149.2M3$
63.M$64.2M$63.2M22$149.2M$149.2M24$85.M$83.M.M$84.2M$149.2M$149.2M27$
149.2M$149.2M17$104.M.M$105.2M$105.M8$149.2M$149.2M27$149.2M$149.2M9$
126.M$127.M$125.3M8$146.M$144.M$141.M$140.3M2.M.M$140.M5.M9$138.M$
137.M$137.3M2$152.3M$154.M$153.M9$138.2M$138.2M$141.D$140.3D$140.D!
It's fast enough that it will need a helix to support the front end (>c/4).
I don't immediately see how to turn it into a set of trails that can support a choice of rakes (producing gliders) and rephasers (not producing any gliders). Seems like there ought to be some sneaky trick or other available, but how might we suppress the forward glider stream coming from the rightmost block trail?
well i'll do some searching. maybe i'll find something useful. so far i have this
Code: Select all
x = 74, y = 113, rule = B3/S23
2bo$obo$b2o30$72b2o$72b2o16$21bobo$22b2o$22bo9$72b2o$72b2o27$72b2o$72b
2o8$43bo$44bo$42b3o11$64bo$63b3o$63bo!
Re: Crawlers
Posted: June 9th, 2021, 7:19 pm
by MathAndCode
C28 wrote: ↑June 9th, 2021, 11:56 am
this looks somewhat promising
One column of blocks can support two R-sequences if they're synchronized (although gliders are still needed to clean up the mess).
Code: Select all
x = 20, y = 81, rule = B3/S23
9b2o$9b2o27$9b2o$9b2o27$9b2o$9b2o21$bo16bo$3o14b3o$o18bo!
By the way, a pentadecathlon forms (although it's helped by the symmetry).
Re: Crawlers
Posted: June 10th, 2021, 2:25 am
by Sphenocorona
dvgrn wrote: ↑June 9th, 2021, 12:13 pm
That's an interesting one, for sure -- an orthogonal 28c/83 R-pentomino crawler! Produces two gliders for every input glider. I don't think that one has been seen before.
I've seen the underlying reaction before, but I didn't look into it too much in regular B3/S23 because R sequences are so incredibly messy. The reaction is much better behaved in B38/S23, where I've been able to find a
rake and a
spacer. Unfortunately, I wasn't really able to make further progress because the old helix building tools have been mostly lost by the wayside (it involves a Golly script in Perl, which is really difficult to set up now - I was completely unable to do it after trying multiple versions of both the old Perl-supporting Golly and StrawberryPerl).
However, it's worth nothing that there's room for variation in what the front is actually crawling on. If we're lucky, there might be a way to chain multiple together (one crawling the smoke cloud of the previous) such that it becomes reburnable (or at least, able to be arranged to cancel out debris in a more standard fashion).
Under certain circumstances, it's possible to spawn a clean R wave that at the end spits out a glider, along with a new block trail:
Code: Select all
x = 655, y = 95, rule = B3/S23
4b2o$4b2o9b2o$15bobo$15bo4b2o$20bobo$20bob2o$19bob2o$19b3o3$18b2o8b2o
2b2o$18b2o8b2o2b3o$27b3o2b2o$28b2o2bo6$37b2obo$32b3o2b2o2bo$33b2o6bo$
34b2o4b2o$39bo$36b2o5$38b3o4bo$38b2o5b2o$39b2o5b2o$38bobo3bobo$36b4o4b
2o$36b2o2bo3bo$37b2obo$38b3o$39bo$39b2o$39bobo$52b2o$51b3o$51bo2bo$52b
2o9$57b3o$57bo4bo$58bo3b2o$63b2o$60bo2bo$61b2o2$72b2o$60b2o9b4o$60b2o
9bob3o$70bob3o$71b3o$71b2o7$b2o26b2o$obo25bobo27b2o$bo27bo27bo2bo2b2o$
57bobo2bo2bo$10bo27bo19bo4b2o12bo$9bobo25bobo35b2ob2o$9bobo25bobo29bo
8b5o$10bo27bo29b3o8bo2bo$67b5o7bo2bo$66b2o3b2o7b2o$37bo29b5o$8b3o26bo
30b3o$37bo31bo9b2o11bo$72b3o4b2o9b3o$20bo50bo3bo14bobo$20bo26b3o21bo3b
o14bo$20bo50bo3bo$72b3o5$93b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o
26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o$93b2o26b
2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b
2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o!
Unfortunately, this is roughly the best I've come up with so far in terms of maximizing useful output to junk output. That said, there may be something better that ends up being workable.
Re: Crawlers
Posted: June 10th, 2021, 10:20 am
by C28
Sphenocorona wrote: ↑June 10th, 2021, 2:25 am
dvgrn wrote: ↑June 9th, 2021, 12:13 pm
That's an interesting one, for sure -- an orthogonal 28c/83 R-pentomino crawler! Produces two gliders for every input glider. I don't think that one has been seen before.
I've seen the underlying reaction before, but I didn't look into it too much in regular B3/S23 because R sequences are so incredibly messy. The reaction is much better behaved in B38/S23, where I've been able to find a
rake and a
spacer. Unfortunately, I wasn't really able to make further progress because the old helix building tools have been mostly lost by the wayside (it involves a Golly script in Perl, which is really difficult to set up now - I was completely unable to do it after trying multiple versions of both the old Perl-supporting Golly and StrawberryPerl).
However, it's worth nothing that there's room for variation in what the front is actually crawling on. If we're lucky, there might be a way to chain multiple together (one crawling the smoke cloud of the previous) such that it becomes reburnable (or at least, able to be arranged to cancel out debris in a more standard fashion).
Under certain circumstances, it's possible to spawn a clean R wave that at the end spits out a glider, along with a new block trail:
Code: Select all
x = 655, y = 95, rule = B3/S23
4b2o$4b2o9b2o$15bobo$15bo4b2o$20bobo$20bob2o$19bob2o$19b3o3$18b2o8b2o
2b2o$18b2o8b2o2b3o$27b3o2b2o$28b2o2bo6$37b2obo$32b3o2b2o2bo$33b2o6bo$
34b2o4b2o$39bo$36b2o5$38b3o4bo$38b2o5b2o$39b2o5b2o$38bobo3bobo$36b4o4b
2o$36b2o2bo3bo$37b2obo$38b3o$39bo$39b2o$39bobo$52b2o$51b3o$51bo2bo$52b
2o9$57b3o$57bo4bo$58bo3b2o$63b2o$60bo2bo$61b2o2$72b2o$60b2o9b4o$60b2o
9bob3o$70bob3o$71b3o$71b2o7$b2o26b2o$obo25bobo27b2o$bo27bo27bo2bo2b2o$
57bobo2bo2bo$10bo27bo19bo4b2o12bo$9bobo25bobo35b2ob2o$9bobo25bobo29bo
8b5o$10bo27bo29b3o8bo2bo$67b5o7bo2bo$66b2o3b2o7b2o$37bo29b5o$8b3o26bo
30b3o$37bo31bo9b2o11bo$72b3o4b2o9b3o$20bo50bo3bo14bobo$20bo26b3o21bo3b
o14bo$20bo50bo3bo$72b3o5$93b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o
26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o$93b2o26b
2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b
2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o26b2o!
Unfortunately, this is roughly the best I've come up with so far in terms of maximizing useful output to junk output. That said, there may be something better that ends up being workable.
well, we can delete blinkers with this
Code: Select all
x = 22, y = 81, rule = B3/S23
20b2o$20b2o21$bo$bo$bo4$20b2o$20b2o22$3o5$20b2o$20b2o21$bo10bo$bo9b3o
$bo9bo!
edit: so the above is more convert than delete. this is more delete than convert
Code: Select all
x = 23, y = 81, rule = B3/S23
21b2o$21b2o27$21b2o$21b2o27$21b2o$21b2o21$o12bo$o11b3o$o11bo!
edit 2: this deletes beehives
Code: Select all
x = 22, y = 82, rule = B3/S23
20b2o$20b2o27$20b2o$20b2o27$20b2o$20b2o21$bo10bo$obo8b3o$obo8bo$bo!
edit 3: this produces blinkers
Code: Select all
x = 73, y = 118, rule = B3/S23
2bo$obo$b2o35$71b2o$71b2o11$21bobo$22b2o$22bo14$71b2o$71b2o27$71b2o$71b
2o3$43bo$44bo$42b3o16$63bo$62b3o$62bo!
edit 4: this one's similar to above, but makes loafs instead of blinkers
Code: Select all
x = 74, y = 122, rule = B3/S23
2bo$obo$b2o39$72b2o$72b2o7$21bobo$22b2o$22bo18$72b2o$72b2o27$43bo28b2o
$44bo27b2o$42b3o20$64bo$63b3o$63bo!
edit 5: this seems useful
Code: Select all
x = 55, y = 81, rule = B3/S23
53b2o$53b2o17$bo$2bo$3o8$53b2o$53b2o27$53b2o$53b2o10$21bo$22b2o$21b2o
9$45bo$44b3o$44bo!
Re: Crawlers
Posted: June 10th, 2021, 11:25 am
by C28
all that is needed is to clean up the leftover blocks
Code: Select all
x = 219, y = 210, rule = B3/S23
bo215bo$2bo213bo$3o213b3o47$21bo175bo$22b2o171b2o$21b2o173b2o22$107b2o
b2o$107b2ob2o24$43bo131bo$41bobo131bobo$42b2o131b2o$107b2ob2o$107b2ob
2o27$107b2ob2o$107b2ob2o17$62bobo89bobo$63b2o89b2o$63bo91bo8$107b2ob2o
$107b2ob2o27$107b2ob2o$107b2ob2o9$84bo49bo$85bo47bo$83b3o47b3o10$99bo
19bo$98b3o17b3o$98bo21bo!
Re: Crawlers
Posted: June 10th, 2021, 2:12 pm
by praosylen
C28 wrote: ↑June 10th, 2021, 11:25 am
all that is needed is to clean up the leftover blocks
Code: Select all
x = 219, y = 210, rule = B3/S23
bo215bo$2bo213bo$3o213b3o47$21bo175bo$22b2o171b2o$21b2o173b2o22$107b2o
b2o$107b2ob2o24$43bo131bo$41bobo131bobo$42b2o131b2o$107b2ob2o$107b2ob
2o27$107b2ob2o$107b2ob2o17$62bobo89bobo$63b2o89b2o$63bo91bo8$107b2ob2o
$107b2ob2o27$107b2ob2o$107b2ob2o9$84bo49bo$85bo47bo$83b3o47b3o10$99bo
19bo$98b3o17b3o$98bo21bo!
Not really... The primary issue here with the original glider+block crawler, as I gather it, is not that there are more outputs than inputs to the crawler, or that the blocks show up again in a different position, but that the crawler as it stands has multiple inputs that need to be aligned and synchronized right. In an ideal world a crawler for a macro-spaceship would travel along a single line of still lives or a single glider stream or whatnot, which is very nice because you can just plunk down a bunch of crawler units on a single track at nearly arbitrary relative timings. The issue with this crawler is that you can't chain multiple at arbitrary timings because the gliders move relative to the trail of blocks... What's needed instead is to figure out some complicated arrangement of multiple crawlers that uses either (only gliders from one direction) or (only still lives + blinkers) as inputs, and then reproduces those inputs behind it in the same
relative positions after the crawlers have passed — which would allow chaining multiple crawlers at whatever timing you wanted. The block+blinker versions you posted earlier are a nice start, since they give ways to actually generate gliders from an trail of only still lives/oscillators (so "later" crawlers can use the glider+block version, which is over-unity), but something like the thing you posted here doesn't help anything since it has glider inputs from
two directions rather than zero (or even one).
Re: Crawlers
Posted: June 10th, 2021, 10:43 pm
by Sphenocorona
A for awesome wrote: ↑June 10th, 2021, 2:12 pm
C28 wrote: ↑June 10th, 2021, 11:25 am
all that is needed is to clean up the leftover blocks
Not really... The primary issue here with the original glider+block crawler, as I gather it, is not that there are more outputs than inputs to the crawler, or that the blocks show up again in a different position, but that the crawler as it stands has multiple inputs that need to be aligned and synchronized right.
While I absolutely agree with this, I think there might still be some value to be found in sufficiently clean over-unity reactions with 2 inputs, as part of a larger complex crawler. To explain what I mean, let's take the (34,7)c/156 crawler reaction as an example. On its own, it climbs either gliders or blocks, and spits out 2 more gliders, along with some junk which contains copies of a block trail, as well as some other junk. Unfortunately, it's difficult to clean up the debris from one of the sides. The current plan for that ship gets around this by having some of its components shoot gliders directly into other crawler components' active regions, suppressing the junk. This is somewhat comparable to some of C28's block + glider input reactions, in that the glider can't arrive at any other time or position, adding additional constraints to where the reaction can be used.
In this case, the fuse is at best even messier, and usually releases fewer gliders. However, once we have one copy of the messy burning fuse, we have a glider that we know is tied to the crawler's position, and so we could use it to clean up another copy of the fuse, and get out even more gliders, which can then be used to clean even more fuses, etc. until we can get all the gliders we need to clean up that initial dirty fuse. The engineering challenges associated with this sound like they could end up being rather difficult, but it sounds to me like it could be vaguely plausible.
Re: Crawlers
Posted: June 11th, 2021, 12:44 am
by praosylen
Sphenocorona wrote: ↑June 10th, 2021, 10:43 pm
A for awesome wrote: ↑June 10th, 2021, 2:12 pm
Not really... The primary issue here with the original glider+block crawler, as I gather it, is not that there are more outputs than inputs to the crawler, or that the blocks show up again in a different position, but that the crawler as it stands has multiple inputs that need to be aligned and synchronized right.
While I absolutely agree with this, I think there might still be some value to be found in sufficiently clean over-unity reactions with 2 inputs, as part of a larger complex crawler. To explain what I mean, let's take the (34,7)c/156 crawler reaction as an example. On its own, it climbs either gliders or blocks, and spits out 2 more gliders, along with some junk which contains copies of a block trail, as well as some other junk. Unfortunately, it's difficult to clean up the debris from one of the sides. The current plan for that ship gets around this by having some of its components shoot gliders directly into other crawler components' active regions, suppressing the junk. This is somewhat comparable to some of C28's block + glider input reactions, in that the glider can't arrive at any other time or position, adding additional constraints to where the reaction can be used.
In this case, the fuse is at best even messier, and usually releases fewer gliders. However, once we have one copy of the messy burning fuse, we have a glider that we know is tied to the crawler's position, and so we could use it to clean up another copy of the fuse, and get out even more gliders, which can then be used to clean even more fuses, etc. until we can get all the gliders we need to clean up that initial dirty fuse. The engineering challenges associated with this sound like they could end up being rather difficult, but it sounds to me like it could be vaguely plausible.
Oh, I very much agree with you there. That's essentially what I meant by
The issue with this crawler is that you can't chain multiple at arbitrary timings because the gliders move relative to the trail of blocks... What's needed instead is to figure out some complicated arrangement of multiple crawlers that uses either (only gliders from one direction) or (only still lives + blinkers) as inputs, and then reproduces those inputs behind it in the same relative positions after the crawlers have passed — which would allow chaining multiple crawlers at whatever timing you wanted.
except you put what I was intending to say much more clearly and eloquently. For sure it's a task that's reasonable to imagine attempting, even if (having no
real experience with this kind of thing) I personally have trouble envisioning all the steps required to put together a clean, reusable crawler, or maybe some kind of quasi-reusable set of similar types of crawlers, from the compilation of messy, timing/spacing-dependent, or destructive reactions we have now...
Re: Crawlers
Posted: June 11th, 2021, 9:13 am
by C28
A for awesome wrote: ↑June 11th, 2021, 12:44 am
I personally have trouble envisioning all the steps required to put together a clean, reusable crawler, or maybe some kind of quasi-reusable set of similar types of crawlers, from the compilation of messy, timing/spacing-dependent, or destructive reactions we have now...
well there is this
Code: Select all
x = 47, y = 90, rule = B3/S23
45b2o$45b2o27$45b2o$45b2o27$45b2o$45b2o21$37bo$bo34b3o$b2o33bo$obo6$21b
3o$23bo$22bo!
the block track can sorta be reused, but the excess blocks are a bit of a problem. i'll have to keep searching
edit: this doesn't use gliders, but the blocks need to be restored
Code: Select all
x = 19, y = 90, rule = B3/S23
17b2o$17b2o27$17b2o$17b2o3$2o$2o23$17b2o$17b2o3$2o$2o17$9bo$8b3o$8bo8$
2o$2o!
edit 2: makes gliders, but it has the same problem as the above pattern
Code: Select all
x = 20, y = 85, rule = B3/S23
18b2o$18b2o26$2o$2o16b2o$18b2o26$2o$2o16b2o$18b2o21$10bo$9b3o$9bo3$2o
$2o!
edit 3: this has the opposite problem. the blocks that aren't part of the track are restored, but not the blocks that are part of the track.
Code: Select all
x = 21, y = 88, rule = B3/S23
19b2o$19b2o27$19b2o$19b2o$2o$2o25$19b2o$19b2o$2o$2o19$11bo$10b3o$10bo
6$2o$2o!
Re: Crawlers
Posted: June 17th, 2021, 4:23 am
by PHPBB12345
C28 wrote: ↑June 11th, 2021, 9:13 am
well there is this
Code: Select all
x = 47, y = 90, rule = B3/S23
45b2o$45b2o27$45b2o$45b2o27$45b2o$45b2o21$37bo$bo34b3o$b2o33bo$obo6$21b
3o$23bo$22bo!
Code: Select all
x = 192, y = 283, rule = B3/S23
190b2o$190b2o27$190b2o$190b2o27$190b2o$190b2o27$190b2o$190b2o27$190b2o
$190b2o27$190b2o$190b2o27$190b2o$3o187b2o$2bo$bo5$21b2o$22b2o$21bo5$
42b2o$41bobo$43bo5$63bo$63b2o$62bobo4$190b2o$190b2o$83b3o$85bo$84bo5$
104b2o$105b2o$104bo5$125b2o$124bobo$126bo2$187bo$185bo$182bo$146bo34b
3o2bobo$146b2o33bo5bo$145bobo$3o$2bo$bo3$166b3o$168bo$21b2o144bo11bo$
22b2o154bo$21bo156b3o5$42b2o$41bobo$43bo136b2o$180b2o4$63bo$63b2o$62bo
bo3$190b2o$190b2o2$83b3o$85bo$84bo5$104b2o$105b2o$104bo5$125b2o$124bob
o53b2o$126bo53b2o5$146bo$146b2o$145bobo2$190b2o$190b2o$159bo$157b2o$
158b2o6b3o$168bo$167bo!
Re: Crawlers
Posted: July 13th, 2021, 7:50 pm
by C28
52c/140 works with loafs
Code: Select all
x = 14, y = 82, rule = B3/S23
12bo$11bobo$10bo2bo$11b2o23$bo$obo$o2bo$b2o23$12bo$11bobo$10bo2bo$11b
2o24$7bo$6b3o$8bo!
Re: Crawlers
Posted: July 23rd, 2021, 11:45 am
by C28
some glider+(10,7)c/75 pi crawler interactions
glider to boat
Code: Select all
x = 116, y = 145, rule = B3/S23
2bo$obo$b2o27$26bobo$27b2o$27bo26$53bo$54bo$52b3o27$78bo$79b2o$78b2o27$
105bo$103bobo$104b2o13$113bo$112bobo$111bo3bo$112bobo5$112bo$111bobo$
112bo2$74bo$74b2o$73bobo!
glider to boat facing another way
Code: Select all
x = 116, y = 149, rule = B3/S23
2bo$obo$b2o27$26bobo$27b2o$27bo26$53bo$54bo$52b3o27$78bo$79b2o$78b2o27$
105bo$103bobo$104b2o13$113bo$112bobo$111bo3bo$112bobo5$112bo$111bobo$
112bo6$74b2o$73bobo$75bo!
glider to b
Code: Select all
x = 116, y = 151, rule = B3/S23
2bo$obo$b2o27$26bobo$27b2o$27bo26$53bo$54bo$52b3o27$78bo$79b2o$78b2o27$
105bo$103bobo$104b2o13$113bo$112bobo$111bo3bo$112bobo5$112bo$111bobo$
112bo8$79b2o$80b2o$79bo!
edit: some block+(10,7)c/75 pi crawler interactions
block to glider and b
Code: Select all
x = 131, y = 141, rule = B3/S23
2bo$obo$b2o27$26bobo$27b2o$27bo26$53bo$54bo$52b3o27$78bo$79b2o$78b2o27$
105bo$103bobo$104b2o11$129b2o$129b2o$113bo$112bobo$111bo3bo$112bobo5$
112bo$111bobo$112bo!
block to block and glider
Code: Select all
x = 126, y = 141, rule = B3/S23
2bo$obo$b2o27$26bobo$27b2o$27bo26$53bo$54bo$52b3o27$78bo$79b2o$78b2o27$
105bo$103bobo$104b2o13$113bo$112bobo$111bo3bo$112bobo$124b2o$124b2o3$
112bo$111bobo$112bo!
edit 2: glider is reflected
Code: Select all
x = 116, y = 149, rule = B3/S23
2bo$obo$b2o27$26bobo$27b2o$27bo26$53bo$54bo$52b3o27$78bo$79b2o$78b2o27$
105bo$103bobo$104b2o13$113bo$112bobo$111bo3bo$112bobo5$112bo$111bobo$
112bo6$97b2o$96bobo$98bo!
Re: Crawlers
Posted: July 29th, 2021, 9:26 am
by Gustone
caterpillarable?
Code: Select all
x = 74, y = 106, rule = B3/S23
2bo$obo$b2o21$15bo$16b2o$15b2o21$30bo$31bo$29b3o22$43bobo$44b2o$44bo
21$59bo$57bobo$58b2o8$71b3o$72bo$70b3o!