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Agar crawlers

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

Agar crawlers

Postby Saka » December 7th, 2016, 5:24 am

Do these exist in life? If there is a non-c one, can we put it inside a greyship? Almost:
x = 24, y = 24, rule = B3/S23:T24,24
22b2o$22o$22b2o$22o$22b2o$22o$22b2o$22o$22b2o$22o$22b2o$20obo$22b2o$
22o$22b2o$22o$22b2o$22o$22b2o$22o$22b2o$22o$22b2o$22o!


One complication is that if we wanted to put it in a (known) greyship, it has to be in zebrastripes agar.
Proud owner and founder of Sakagolue
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

(Check gen 2)
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Re: Agar crawlers

Postby Gamedziner » December 7th, 2016, 7:40 am

x = 24, y = 24, rule = B3/S23:T24,24
24o2$24o2$24o2$24o2$24o2$24o$bo$4b20o$o$24o2$24o2$24o2$24o2$24o!

Lightspeed wire works. It's too fast to be used with a greyship, though.
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Re: Agar crawlers

Postby Saka » December 8th, 2016, 3:06 am

Any with speed < c?
Proud owner and founder of Sakagolue
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

(Check gen 2)
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Re: Agar crawlers

Postby Sokwe » December 8th, 2016, 5:11 am

Saka wrote:Any with speed < c?

There are these against-the-grain 2c/3 crawlers by Hartmut Holzwart (from "bubbles-2c3o.lif" in jslife):
x = 160, y = 105, rule = B3/S23
3bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo
2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo
2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo$b158o$o158bo$b158o2$b158o$o158bo$b158o2$b158o$o158b
o$b158o2$b158o$o158bo$b158o2$b158o$o158bo$b158o2$b158o$o158bo$b158o2$b
158o$o158bo$b158o2$b158o$o158bo$b101o2b3o2b7o2b3o2b16o4b16o2$b99o4bobo
4b3o4bobo4b13o6b15o$o99bo9bo3bo9bo13bo4bo15bo$b79o2b19o9b5o9b15o4b16o$
15b2o3b2o79bo7bo5bo7bo13b8o$b12o5bo5b23o2b3o2b24o6b19o5b9o5b13o4bo2bo
4b12o$o12bo4bo4bo54bo4bo18bo5bo7bo5bo12bo3bo2bo3bo12bo$b12o11b21o4bobo
4b23o4b17o2bo5bo2b3o2bo5bo2b10o12b12o$14bo7bo22bo9bo44bobob3obobo3bobo
b3obobo11bo8bo$b6o4b4o7b4o4b16o9b21o3b4o3b15obobobobob5obobobobob13o8b
14o$o14bo5bo24bo7bo25b2o22bobo11bobo16bo6bo14bo$b5o6b5o3b5o6b17o5b22o
12b15o2bobo2b7o2bobo2b16o4b16o$6bo4bo4bo3bo4bo4bo16bo5bo21bo10bo16b2ob
2o9b2ob2o$b7o2bo2bobob3obobo2bo2b16o2bo5bo2b21o8b15o11b3o11b11o3b4o3b
13o$o8bo4bobo3bobo4bo17bobob3obobo21bo6bo15bo2b2ob2o2bo3bo2b2ob2o2bo
15b2o17bo$b9o3bo3b3o3bo3b13o2b4obobobobob4o2b17o6b17o23b11o12b12o$13b
2o3bo3b2o21bobobobobobo16b2o4bo4bo4b2o11bo8b2ob2o8bo11bo10bo$b13o9b15o
6b2obobobobob2o6b7o6b4o2b4o6b11o19b15o8b14o$o14b7o16bo8bobobobo8bo7bo
3b2o3bo2bo3b2o3bo11bo6b2ob2o6bo15bo6bo14bo$b38o8bobobobo8b8o9bo2bo9b
12o5b2o3b2o5b17o6b15o$39bo6bo2bobo2bo6bo9bo5bo6bo5bo13bo3bo2bobo2bo3bo
17bo4bo$b13o9b18o6bobobobo6b12o6bo4bo6b16o2bo2bobo2bo2b18o3b2o3b14o$o
40bo7bobo7bo12bo4b2ob2ob2o4bo16bobo2bobo2bobo21b2o17bo$b11o13b17o5bobo
bobo5b15o4bo4bo4b17obob2o5b2obob15o12b12o$12bo2bo2bo2bo2bo17bo5b2ob2o
5bo15b2o4b2o4b2o18bob2o5b2obo16bo10bo$b11o2b3obob3o2b19o3bobobobo3b13o
2b3obo2bo2bo2bob3o2b12o2bo2b2o3b2o2bo2b15o10b13o$o15bobobo25b2obobob2o
22b3o2b3o19bob2o3bobo3b2obo15bo8bo13bo$b11o2b2o5b2o2b16o3b2obobobobob
2o3b8o6b3obo4bob3o6b11o7bo7b18o6b15o$12b2o2bo3bo2b2o24bobo16bo4bo14bo
4bo9b19o16bo4bo$b10o4b7o4b14o4bo4bobo4bo4b8o8bo6bo8b8o23b15o4b16o$o39b
o4bo2b2ob2o2bo4bo8bo3b2o2bo2b2o2bo2b2o3bo8bo4b2o2b5o2b2o4bo13b8o14bo$b
9o7b3o7b15o3bo3bobo3bo3b12o5bob2o2b2obo5b10o4bo13bo4b11o4bo2bo4b12o$
10bo6b3o6bo15bo5b2ob2o5bo12bo2bob2o6b2obo2bo11bo9bo9bo12bo3bo2bo3bo$b
11o13b19o13b15o3b2o8b2o3b13o8bobo8b13o12b12o$o11bo3b5o3bo19bo3bo3bo3bo
16bo14bo14bo6b2ob2o6bo14bo8bo13bo$b13o2bobobo2b22ob3o3b3ob23o4b22o5bo
3bo5b17o8b14o$14bo3bo3bo22bo9bo23b4o22bo3bobobobo3bo17bo6bo$b13ob7ob
22ob9ob24o2b24o13b20o4b16o$o105bo5bo5bo40bo$b107o3b3o3b19o3b4o3b13o$
108bo2b3o2bo23b2o$b109o5b20o12b12o$o134bo10bo12bo$b109o5b22o8b14o$110b
obobo22bo6bo$b109o5b23o6b15o$o111bo19b2o4bo4bo4b2o9bo$b129o6b4o2b4o6b
7o$130bo3b2o3bo2bo3b2o3bo$b129o9bo2bo9b7o$o21b2o3b2o7b2o93bo5bo6bo5bo
8bo$b19o5bo5b3o6b10o2b80o6bo4bo6b9o$7b2o6b2o3bo4bo4bo3b2o3bo92bo4b2ob
2ob2o4bo$b4o6b2o6bo11bo12b4o6bo2b5o2b6o2b5o2b55o4bo4bo4b11o$o4bo4bo2b
2o3bo2bo7bo9b2o7bo5bo46b2o31b2o4b2o4b2o11bo$b4o14b3o7b4o12bo2b2o3bo5bo
6b2o6bo6bo2b15o6b7o2b16o2b3obo2bo2bo2bob3o2b7o$6bo5bo4b2o3bo5bo4bo5b2o
4bo3bo3b2o3bobo4bo2bo4bobo5bo17bo4bo32b3o2b3o$b6o9b2ob2obo4b7ob3obo7bo
b2ob2o3b2ob2o2b2o2b2o2b2ob2o3bo3bo4b6o2b2o6b2o2bo6b12o6b3obo4bob3o6b5o
$o6bo6b2o6b2o2bo7b2obob2o5b2o3bo8bo3b2o2b2o3bo2bo3b2ob2o14b2o2bo5bo5bo
12bo4bo14bo4bo5bo$b8o5b2o2bo4bo2bo2b5o7b2o4bo2b9o5b2o2b2o5b3ob2o2b2o9b
4o2b3o4bo7b14o8bo6bo8b6o$9bo3bo2bobo2bo10b2obobo2bob2ob3o11bo3bobo2bob
o3bo3bo4bo2bob3o5bobobobo5bo5bo14bo3b2o2bo2b2o2bo2b2o3bo$b10o2b3o2b2o
2b2obobobo4b2obobo2bob2o2b11obobob2o2b2obobob9obo2b3o5b2o2bo2b3ob3o3b
18o5bob2o2b2obo5b8o$o10bo10b2obo2bobobo4bo2bobo4bo13bo10bo18bo3bo8bobo
4b2o18bo2bob2o6b2obo2bo8bo$b10ob9ob2o2b2obob11ob49o2b10ob6ob20o3b2o8b
2o3b9o$30bo62bo39bo14bo$b92ob45o4b16o$o138b4o16bo$b139o2b17o2$b158o$o
158bo$b158o$3bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo
2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo
2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo!
-Matthias Merzenich
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Re: Agar crawlers

Postby Saka » December 8th, 2016, 5:17 am

Sokwe wrote:
Saka wrote:Any with speed < c?

There are these against-the-grain 2c/3 crawlers by Hartmut Holzwart (from "bubbles-2c3o.lif" in jslife):
2c/3

Hmm... interesting, but still too fast... Is a c/2 or less one even possible?
Proud owner and founder of Sakagolue
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

(Check gen 2)
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Re: Agar crawlers

Postby muzik » December 8th, 2016, 7:32 am

Things I would like to know:

1. How does one search for these?

2. Are there any normal spaceshipy technologies that can work similarly with these? (e.g. eaters, guns)
waiting for apgsearch to support one-dimensional rules
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Re: Agar crawlers

Postby Gamedziner » December 8th, 2016, 7:51 am

I wonder if one exists that just reflects back and forth in the greyship?
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Re: Agar crawlers

Postby Gamedziner » December 8th, 2016, 8:00 am

Saka wrote:
Sokwe wrote:
Saka wrote:Any with speed < c?

There are these against-the-grain 2c/3 crawlers by Hartmut Holzwart (from "bubbles-2c3o.lif" in jslife):
2c/3

Hmm... interesting, but still too fast... Is a c/2 or less one even possible?

There are currently no known c/2 or less agar crawlers, but it has not been ruled out as impossible.
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Re: Agar crawlers

Postby Sokwe » December 8th, 2016, 8:27 am

Saka wrote:Hmm... interesting, but still too fast... Is a c/2 or less one even possible?

Speeds less than c seem to be impossible for with-the-grain signals, but I think c/2 against-the-grain travelers probably exist. One idea is to search for a "reverse grayship": use the known grayship components, but what was previously the back of the grayship is now the front of the bubble. Similarly, the front of the grayship as the back of the bubble. Then all that needs to be found are the connections between the components.

Here are some against-the-grain grayships from jslife:
x = 440, y = 191, rule = B3/S23
111bo10bo8b3o5b3o93b3o5b3o8bo10bo$110b3o8b3o6bo2bo5bo2bo5bo7bo20b3o3b
3o5b3o3b3o20bo7bo5bo2bo5bo2bo6b3o8b3o$109b2obo7b2obo6bo2bo5bo7b3o5b3o
5bo5bo7bo2bobo2bo5bo2bobo2bo7bo5bo5b3o5b3o7bo5bo2bo6bob2o7bob2o$109b3o
8b3o6b2obobo4bo3bo2b2obo4b2o2bo3b3o3b3o4bo4bobo3bo3bo3bobo4bo4b3o3b3o
3bo2b2o4bob2o2bo3bo4bobob2o6b3o8b3o$110b2o8b3o3bo3bo2b2ob4o6bo7b2o2bo
2b2o2bobo2b2o3b4obobob9obobob4o3b2o2bobo2b2o2bo2b2o7bo6b4ob2o2bo3bo3b
3o8b2o$114b2o3bob2o4b2obobob2ob3o3bob3o2b2o2b2o2bobo2bobobobo8bobobo
11bobobo8bobobobo2bobo2b2o2b2o2b3obo3b3ob2obobob2o4b2obo3b2o95bo$113bo
2b4o3b3o4bobobo2b2ob2ob2obobobo4bobo2b4obobo2b10ob15ob10o2bobob4o2bobo
4bobobob2ob2ob2o2bobobo4b3o3b4o2bo93b3o$114bo2bo6bobo3bobo3bo2bo5bo3bo
15bo45bo15bo3bo5bo2bo3bobo3bobo6bo2bo89b3o4b2o$116bo2bo4bo3bobobo2bo4b
o3bo3bo4b71o4bo3bo3bo4bo2bobobo3bo4bo2bo90bo2b3o2bob2o$118b4o6bo7bo2bo
5bo6bo71bo6bo5bo2bo7bo6b4o91bo3bobo2bobo$135bo4bo8b2o3b69o3b2o8bo4bo
108bo4bobobobob2o$134bo6bo11bo69bo11bo6bo109bo4bobo3b2o$152b73o124bobo
4bo3bob3o$151bo73bo122b2obob2o9b2o$150b77o120bobobobo$149bo77bo118b2ob
obobob2o$148b81o116bobobobobobobo$147bo81bo114b2obobobobobob2o$146b85o
112bobobobobobobobobo$145bo85bo110b2obobobobobobobob2o$144b89o108bobob
obobobobobobobobo$143bo89bo106b2obobobobobobobobobob2o$142b93o104bobob
obobobobobobobobobobo$141bo93bo102b2obobobobobobobobobobobob2o$140b97o
100bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo$139bo97bo88b3o7b2obobobobobobobobobo
bobobobob2o$138b47obo3bob47o86bo2bo5b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
o$137bo44bobobo3bobobo44bo88bo6bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob2o$
136b41obo19bob41o87bo3b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo$126bo8bo
38bobobo19bobobo38bo8bo74bobo4b2o3bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob2o$
125b3o6b35obo35bob35o6b3o80bo4bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo$
125bob2o4bo32bobobo35bobobo32bo4b2obo78bo2bobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobob2o$126b3o4b28obo51bob28o4b3o79b5obo2bobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobo$126b3o2bo26bobobo51bobobo26bo2b3o77bo12bobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobob2o$126b3ob23obo67bob23ob3o77b15obo2bobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobo$128b2o20bobobo67bobobo20b2o77bo22bobobobobobobobobobobobob
ob2o$129bo2b13obo83bob13o2bo78b25obo2bobobobobobobobobobobobo$128bo13b
obobo83bobobo13bo75bo32bobobobobobobobobobob2o$127bo5b4obo99bob4o5bo
74b35obo2bobobobobobobobobo$127bo4bobobobo99bobobobo4bo72bo42bobobobob
obobob2o$127bo3bo113bo3bo72b45obo2bobobobobob2o$127bo121bo70bo52bobobo
bobo$128bobo115bobo71b55obo2bobob2o$318bo62bo2bo$318b66obo$316bo68b2o$
316b66o5b2o$314bo64bobo3bob2o$314b60obo$46b3o3b3o257bo58bobobo7b3obo$
45bo2bo3bo2bo256b54obo18bo3bo$48bo3bo257bo52bobobo15bobobo2bo$48bo3bo
257b48obo30bo$48bo3bo255bo46bobobo24b2o4bo$308b42obo36bo$46b3o3b3o251b
o40bobobo36bobo$47bo5bo242b3o7b36obo43bo$47b7o98b3o3b3o51bo7bo74bo2bo
5bo34bobobo42b2ob2o$46bo7bo97bo2bobo2bo7bo5bo36b3o5b3o7b3o8b3o55bo5b
30obo$45b11o95bo3bobo4bo4b3o3b3o19b3o5b3o5bob2o3b2o2bo6bo2bo7bo2bo50bo
3bo32bobobo51b3o$44bo11bo94b3obobob4o3b2o2bobo2b2o5b3o3b3o4bo2bo4bo2bo
5b3o3b3obo6bo10bo57bo2b25obo60b2o$43b15o92bo4bobobo8bobobobo2bo3bo2bo
3bo2bo2bo8bo2bo5b2obob2obob2o5bo3bo6bo54bobo2bo22bobobo60bo$42bo15bo
90b8ob10o2bobob4o3bo3bobo3bo2b3o2bo2bobo3bo3bo3bo3bobob2o3bo3bo7bobo
56b2ob15obo68bo$41b19o88bo23bo6bo3bobobobo2bob2o5b3o5b2o9bobo2b4o4bob
4o62b2o12bobobo66b2ob3o$40bo19bo86b36obo2bob5o2b3o2b2obo4b2obo5bobobo
2b6ob2ob2o2bo59b11obo74b2o3bo$39b23o84bo56b3obobobob5o2bobo10bo3bo60b
3o2bo3bobobo75bo3bo$38bo23bo82b55o7b2o3b2o2b2o7bobo5bobo62bob2o89bo$
37b27o80bo58bo8b2o2b2o5bo8b3o64b3o2bo83bo3b2o$36bo27bo78b57o12bo4bo14b
2o65b2o93bo$35b31o76bo57bo193b2o$34bo31bo74b60o186b3o4b2o$33b35o72bo
61bo184bo2bo3bo$32bo35bo70b64o184bo$31b39o68bo65bo182bo4b3o$30bo39bo
66b68o182bo5bo$29b43o64bo69bo181bobo3bo$28bo43bo53b3o6b72o$27b47o51bo
2bo5bo73bo$26bo47bo53bo4b76o$25b51o48bo3bo3bo77bo$24bo51bo51bo2b80o$
23b55o47bobo84bo$22bo55bo55b79o$21b59o53bo80bo$20bo59bo50b2ob81o$19b
63o134bo$18bo63bo47bo4b82o$17b67o46bo87bo$16bo67bo46bo4b83o$15b71o48bo
2bo82bo$14bo71bo52b82o126bo$13b75o49b2o83bo123b3o$12bo75bo48b86o122b2o
4b3o$2bo8b38obob38o8bo37bo2bo84bo118b2obo2b3o2bo$b3o6bo35bobobobobo35b
o6b3o41b84o119bobo2bobo3bo$2obo5b32obo15bob32o5bob2o34b2o3bo85bo114b2o
bobobobo4bo$3o5bo29bobobo15bobobo29bo5b3o40b72obob11o114b2o3bobo4bo$3o
3b27obo31bob27o3b3o40b2o67bobobobobo8bo113b3obo3bo4bobo$b2o2bo24bobobo
31bobobo24bo2b2o42bob61obo15bob5o111b2o9b2obob2o$6bob17obo47bob17obo
47bo59bobobo15bob4obo122bobobobo$6b2o14bobobo47bobobo14b2o46bo3b52obo
28bobo119b2obobobob2o$9b8obo63bob8o50bobo49bobobo27bo3bo119bobobobobob
o$3b3o2bo5bobobo63bobobo5bo2b3o42b2o3b44obo33b2obobo117b2obobobobobob
2o$2bo2bo2bobo79bobo2bo2bo46bo40bobobo32bo3bob2o117bobobobobobobobo$5b
o4bo79bo4bo49bo2b33obo40b2o2bob2o114b2obobobobobobobob2o$5bo89bo82bobo
bo41bob2o118bobobobobobobobobobo$2bobo91bobo48bo2b23obo48b3obob2o112b
2obobobobobobobobobob2o$146b2o22bobobo48bo2b2o105b3o8bobobobobobobobob
obobobo$149b2ob13obo55b2obobo104bo2bo5b2obobobobobobobobobobobob2o$
149bo12bobobo55bo3bo108bo6bobobobobobobobobobobobobobo$150bo2b4obo63bo
2b3o107bo3b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobob2o$151b2obobobo67b2o104bobo4b
2o3bobobobobobobobobobobobobobo$223b3o113bo4bobobobobobobobobobobobobo
b2o$221bo2b2o111bo2bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo$222bo2bo111b5obo
2bobobobobobobobobobobobobob2o$222bo2b2o108bo12bobobobobobobobobobobob
obobo$222bo4bo107b15obo2bobobobobobobobobobob2o$221bobo3bo105bo22bobob
obobobobobobobobo6b3o3b3o$221bo111b25obo2bobobobobobobob2o5bo2bobo2bo
5b3o3b3o$226bo104bo32bobobobobobobob2o2bo3bobo2bo4bo2bo3bo2bo6bo5bo$
223b2ob2o103b35obo2bobobo3bo2b3o2bobob2o4bo3bobo3bo5b3o3b3o$228bo100bo
42bobobo3bo3bobobo2b4o3bobobobo2bo3bo2b2ob2o2bo$224bo3bo100b45ob9obo2b
o3bob4obo2bob5obobo2bobo2b3o$223bo103bo81bo3bobobobo3bo$223bo103b88obo
2b5ob3o$223bo101bo99bob2o$223bo101b99o2bo2bo$223bo99bo100b3ob3o$223bo
99b101o3b3o$224bobo94bo96bobobo5b4o$321b92obo11b3o3b2o$319bo90bobobo
13bo3b2o$319b86obo27bo$317bo84bobobo22bo3bo$317b80obo31bo$315bo78bobob
o32b2o$315b74obo40b3o3bo$313bo72bobobo45b3o$313b68obo46b3o4bob2o$311bo
66bobobo46bo2b2o3b3o$311b62obo53bo3b2o3b2o$309bo60bobobo54bobo$309b56o
bo63b2o$307bo54bobobo64bo$307b50obo71bo4b3o$305bo48bobobo72bo2bo2bo$
305b44obo79b3o4bo$303bo42bobobo78bo7bo$303b38obo85b2ob2o4bo$301bo36bob
obo88bo2bobo$301b32obo95bo$299bo30bobobo93b3o$299b26obo101b2ob2o$297bo
24bobobo103b3o3bo$297b20obo111bo4b3o$295bo18bobobo111bo4bob2o$295b14ob
o117b2o2bo3b3o$293bo12bobobo125b3o$293b8obo129bo3b3o$293b2o3bobobo133b
2o2$290b3o$293bobo$293bob2o$290b2obo$290b2obo3bo$293bobobo$292bobo2bo
2$294bo3bo$294b3ob2o$294bo3b2o$296b3o$296bo$297b2o$299bo$294b3o$294bo
5bo$294bob2o2bo$297bobo$294bo$293bobo$292bo$293bob2o$295bo$296bobo$
295bo$295bo3bo$295bo3bo$295bo$296bobo!


muzik wrote:How does one search for these?

Use WLS or JLS. Fill the search field with the stripes agar. Place "don't care" cells (X cells) around the edges, and cut out some area in the center of the agar where the "bubble" will be. Finally, give it the appropriate translation settings.

muzik wrote:Are there any normal spaceshipy technologies that can work similarly with these? (e.g. eaters, guns)

Only for very small travelers (like the small with-the-grain travelers). Part of the reason we can find eaters for spaceships is that empty space is a fairly common result of evolving patterns. By contrast, the stripes agar doesn't really occur naturally, so you can't rely on natural decay for eaters.

The same idea applies to guns: we could only find them for very small travelers. Notice that we have only been able to build guns for a small number of the smallest spaceships. Building a large agar traveler would no doubt be much harder.
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Re: Agar crawlers

Postby Saka » December 9th, 2016, 3:06 am

Sokwe wrote:
muzik wrote:How does one search for these?

Use WLS or JLS. Fill the search field with the stripes agar. Place "don't care" cells (X cells) around the edges, and cut out some area in the center of the agar where the "bubble" will be. Finally, give it the appropriate translation settings.


Not working for me, can you give me a working example?
Proud owner and founder of Sakagolue
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

(Check gen 2)
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Re: Agar crawlers

Postby HartmutHolzwart » December 9th, 2016, 4:24 am

Sokwe wrote:
Saka wrote:Hmm... interesting, but still too fast... Is a c/2 or less one even possible?

Speeds less than c seem to be impossible for with-the-grain signals, but I think c/2 against-the-grain travelers probably exist. One idea is to search for a "reverse grayship": use the known grayship components, but what was previously the back of the grayship is now the front of the bubble. Similarly, the front of the grayship as the back of the bubble. Then all that needs to be found are the connections between the components.

Here are some against-the-grain grayships from jslife:
x = 440, y = 191, rule = B3/S23


muzik wrote:How does one search for these?

Use WLS or JLS. Fill the search field with the stripes agar. Place "don't care" cells (X cells) around the edges, and cut out some area in the center of the agar where the "bubble" will be. Finally, give it the appropriate translation settings.

muzik wrote:Are there any normal spaceshipy technologies that can work similarly with these? (e.g. eaters, guns)

Only for very small travelers (like the small with-the-grain travelers). Part of the reason we can find eaters for spaceships is that empty space is a fairly common result of evolving patterns. By contrast, the stripes agar doesn't really occur naturally, so you can't rely on natural decay for eaters.

The same idea applies to guns: we could only find them for very small travelers. Notice that we have only been able to build guns for a small number of the smallest spaceships. Building a large agar traveler would no doubt be much harder.


I've actually tried to build such a c/2 crawler in the against-the-grain stripes agar on and off in the last 10 years. The issue is to get a working left and right front corner. This is where the existing parts I found for the respective grey ships don't really help.

A naïve WLS search doesn't lead to any results. Either the solution is pretty big or I just didn't find the right way to restrict the search space. Maybe a new mind with new thoughts should tackle the problem seriously.

2c/5 and 2c/6 also might be interesting candidates as well, although I didn't even find respective against-the-grain grey ships there.

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Re: Agar crawlers

Postby wildmyron » December 9th, 2016, 5:33 am

Here are a few files to get you started. They both will find examples of the 2c/3 crawlers posted above, one is for JLS and the other is for wls-nb. The standard version of wls seems to have some trouble with 2c/3 but with a sufficient boundary of don't care cells you can set up a 2c/4 search. JLS and wls-nb both allow searching on a torus which simplifies setting up the search.

Some things to note:
  • Both files set up the search for width 25 crawlers and constrain the frontend in order to find results in a reasonable time.
  • When searching for across the grain zebra stripes crawlers, the displacement needs to be a multiple of 2.
  • You need to take a bit of care with the frontend of your search to ensure the first and last generation have sufficient overlap.
  • You also need to introduce some anisotropy. I've done this by forcing the frontend in the final gen. You can also do it with the "Force an ON cell in column" option in wls. You'll want to make the search as broad as possible by removing as much constraint on the search as possible.
  • To search for c/2 crawlers, increase the period to 4 and fill in the blanks in the final gen.

As Hartmut said, there is no reasonably small c/2 across the grain crawler for zebra stripes, neither at p4 nor p8 as far as I can see, though by reasonably small I mean smaller than the 2c/3 examples below. So any solution is likely to be large and will consist of the "reverse grey ship" parts mentioned by Sokwe. The difficulty here is that the corners of a grey ship can be supported by other ships in free space, of which there are a myriad of possibilities. Here, the corners need to be self-supporting, or supported from within the bubble you are creating, which seems to be a trickier problem.

So, go forth and discover!

P.S. here are some of the solutions from the attached search files:
x = 33, y = 149, rule = B3/S23:T33,150
33o2$33o2$33o$13b2o3b2o$11o5bo5b11o$11bo4bo4bo$11o11b11o$9b2o2b3ob3o2b
2o$7o5b2obobob2o5b7o$7bo5bo5bo5bo$7o4bo2bo3bo2bo4b7o$7bo2b5o3b5o2bo$9o
bo11bob9o$8bobob9obobo$9o2b2o7b2o2b9o$6b3obo2b7o2bob3o$4o5b2obo7bob2o
5b4o$4bo5bob9obo5bo$4o6bobo7bobo6b4o$5bo3bo2bo2b3o2bo2bo3bo$6o4bobobo
3bobobo4b6o$6bo5bob5obo5bo$8obo2bobobobobo2bob8o$8bo3bo7bo3bo$10ob3o5b
3ob10o$14b5o$15obob15o$14bobobo$12o9b12o$12bo3bo3bo$6o4b3o2bobo2b3o4b
6o$13b3ob3o$5o6bo3b3o3bo6b5o$5bo5bo2b2ob2o2bo5bo$7o6b2o3b2o6b7o$7bo17b
o$8o6bo3bo6b8o$8bo6bobo6bo$10o3bo2bo2bo3b10o$10bo3bobobo3bo$11o2b2o3b
2o2b11o$11bo4bo4bo$33o2$33o2$33o2$33o2$33o$13b2o3b2o$11o5bo5b11o$11bo
4bo4bo$8o2bo11bo2b8o2$6o4b2o9b2o4b6o$6bo19bo$7o19b7o$7bo17bo$9o15b9o$
9bo13bo$10o13b10o$10bo11bo$12o9b12o$12bo7bo$13o7b13o$13bo5bo$6o2b7o3b
7o2b6o$15bobo$4o3b7obobob7o3b4o$4bo4b2o4bobo4b2o4bo$5o7bo2bobo2bo7b5o$
5bo6bo2bobo2bo6bo$7o6bobobobo6b7o$7bo7bobo7bo$8o5bobobobo5b8o$8bo5b2ob
2o5bo$10o3bobobobo3b10o$12b2obobob2o$7o3b2obobobobob2o3b7o$15bobo$6o4b
o4bobo4bo4b6o$6bo4bo2b2ob2o2bo4bo$8o3bo3bobo3bo3b8o$8bo5b2ob2o5bo$10o
13b10o$10bo3bo3bo3bo$11ob3o3b3ob11o$11bo9bo$11ob9ob11o2$33o2$33o2$33o
2$33o$13b2o3b2o$11o5bo5b11o$11bo4bo4bo$11o11b11o$12bo7bo$6o2b5o7b5o2b
6o$13bo5bo$4o6bo2bo5bo2bo6b4o$4bo4bobob2o3b2obobo4bo$5o4b2o2bob3obo2b
2o4b5o$5bo5bobobobobobo5bo$7o4bobobobobobo4b7o$7bo5bobobobo5bo$8o7bobo
7b8o$8bo5bo3bo5bo$10o13b10o$10bo11bo$11o11b11o$11bo9bo$13o7b13o$13bo5b
o$14o5b14o$6b2o6bo3bo6b2o$4o6b6ob6o6b4o$4bo3b2o5bobo5b2o3bo$4o8bo2bobo
2bo8b4o$5bo5bobobobobobo5bo$6o9bobo9b6o$6bo5b2obobob2o5bo$8o7bobo7b8o$
8bo5b2ob2o5bo$9o6bobo6b9o$9bo2b2obobob2o2bo$8o3bobobobobobo3b8o$11bobo
bobobobo$6o9bobo9b6o$6bo3b3o2bobo2b3o3bo$7o8bobo8b7o$7bo6b2ob2o6bo$9ob
o11bob9o$9bo4b2ob2o4bo$10o3bo5bo3b10o$11b2o7b2o$11ob4ob4ob11o$16bo$33o
2$33o!
Attachments
2c3-agar_crawler.zip
2c/3 agar crawler search files for JLS and wls-nb
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Re: Agar crawlers

Postby Sokwe » December 9th, 2016, 7:22 am

wildmyron wrote:Here are a few files to get you started.

I see that for searches faster than c/2 in JLS you need to use U-cells instead of X-cells. For some reason I thought standard WLS would be able to handle searches faster than c/2 in Life, but I guess not.

By the way, "WLS-nb" refers to Nicolay Beluchenko's modification of WLS which can be downloaded here.
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Re: Agar crawlers

Postby HartmutHolzwart » December 9th, 2016, 8:31 am

WLS.nb can, but only if the set up is correct.

WLS0.71 has two version, one of which can also handle speeds faster than c/2 (but it is significantly slower).
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Re: Agar crawlers

Postby wildmyron » February 12th, 2017, 3:52 am

Here is a back corner for a 2c/4 bubble in the perpendicular stripes agar
x = 55, y = 43, rule = B3/S23
obobobobobobo2b4o$obobobobobobobo4bo$obobobobobobo2b2o3bo$obobobobobob
o3bo3bo$obobobobobobob3o3bo$obobobobobobo6bo$obobobobobob7o$obobobobob
obo$obobobobobo2b4o$obobobobobobo4bo$obobobobobo2b2o3bo$obobobobobo3bo
3bo17bo6bobo$obobobobobob3o3bo16bobo5bo2bo$obobobobobo6bo13bo5bobo6b2o
$obobobobob7o14b3o6bo7bo$obobobobobo21b2ob4o2b2ob6o$obobobobo2b8o2bobo
4b2o2bo3bo3bob2o7b2o$obobobobobo6bobobo2bo3b3ob3o9b2ob3o3bo$obobobobob
2ob3o8b2o3bo3b2o9b2o4bo3bo$obobobobobobob2o5bo4bo2b3o11b2o3bo5bo$obobo
bobobobo8bob5ob3o11bob4o3b3o$obobobobobob2o4b2o$obobobobobobo8bob5ob3o
11bob4o3b3o$obobobobobobob2o5bo4bo2b3o11b2o3bo5bo$obobobobob2ob3o8b2o
3bo3b2o9b2o4bo3bo$obobobobobo6bobobo2bo3b3ob3o9b2ob3o3bo$obobobobo2b8o
2bobo4b2o2bo3bo3bob2o7b2o$obobobobobo21b2ob4o2b2ob6o$obobobobob7o14b3o
6bo7bo$obobobobobo6bo13bo5bobo6b2o$obobobobobob3o3bo16bobo5bo2bo$obobo
bobobo3bo3bo17bo6bobo$obobobobobo2b2o3bo$obobobobobobo4bo$obobobobobo
2b4o$obobobobobobo$obobobobobob7o$obobobobobobo6bo$obobobobobobob3o3bo
$obobobobobobo3bo3bo$obobobobobobo2b2o3bo$obobobobobobobo4bo$obobobobo
bobo2b4o!

I wasn't readily able to use it as a frontend for a 2c/4 greyship with symmetric components, but I suspect it should be possible - if not symmetric then an asymmetric greyship. Unfortunately it's quite large but there is the possibility of finding a smaller ship to support it. Whether or not it's at all feasible to find corners which will join on to it, I haven't explored yet, but I suspect it's going to take a fairly broad search to find something compatible.
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