ConwayLife.com - A community for Conway's Game of Life and related cellular automata
Home  •  LifeWiki  •  Forums  •  Download Golly

Interacting with LoM

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

Interacting with LoM

Postby Rhombic » June 27th, 2016, 9:26 am

WARNING: This original post was written when Rhombic (aka me) knew pretty much nothing about what a Herschel circuit was. Have mercy on newbie me.please

LoM, the evolution of the stairstep hexomino, is very common and could potentially be used as sources for Herschels and other n-ominos by intercepting them with spaceships and/or still life at particular positions.

Just by having a couple of goes at it, a MWSS collides with it producing at gen 70 an (unhindered, isolated) Herschel far away enough to make it useful:
x = 18, y = 41, rule = LifeHistory
13.A$12.A$12.A4.A$12.5A4$3.2A$4.2A$5.2A16$11.3B$11.B$10.3B10$.3B$B3.B
$B3.B$.3B!


You may ask, what is the point of doing this?
The answer is that this can allow new ways to create more complex either Herschel circuits or similar patterns requiring a minimum input (namely, LoM and a spaceship - check my code with LifeHistory to see how the reaction is very localised and does not grow everywhere).

Alternatively, ways to use (half a) blockade (= two of the blocks) in a useful way would also be of interest.
Last edited by Rhombic on January 2nd, 2018, 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
SoL : FreeElectronics : DeadlyEnemies : 6a-ite
what is “sesame oil”?
User avatar
Rhombic
 
Posts: 968
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 5:41 pm

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby dvgrn » June 27th, 2016, 11:16 am

Rhombic wrote:LoM, the evolution of the stairstep hexomino, is very common and could potentially be used as sources for Herschels and other n-ominos by intercepting them with spaceships and/or still life at particular positions.

Just by having a couple of goes at it, a MWSS collides with it producing at gen 70 an (unhindered, isolated) Herschel far away enough to make it useful...

"Useful" is a tough term to define clearly, though a fair consensus seems to develop among people who have been experimenting with Conway's Life signal conduits for far too long...!

In the Elementary Conduits Collection, we have a lot of mechanisms that accept one type of active pattern as input, and produce another type of active pattern as output.

However, there hasn't been much of any attempt to make an organized collection of circuits that require two synchronized inputs -- just because there are way too many of them, and they're way too hard to use in practice. Unless you're drawing in the LOM and MWSS in generation 0, it is likely to take a lot of large, slow, and complicated circuitry to get both of those objects into exactly the right place at the right time.

You might be interested in the various discussions about LOMs in the thread dedicated to finding new Herschel conduits. Short summary: it would be really nice to find useful conduits that use LOMs, but no workable X-to-LOM-to-Y sequences have showed up yet.

As soon as there are two different branches available to or from a LOM -- i.e., as soon as someone can find an X-to-LOM-to-Y conduit, plus either a W-to-LOM or a LOM-to-Z conduit that can replace part of the X-to-LOM-to-Y -- I'll be very happy to add LOMs to the list of interesting signals at the top of the Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits thread At the moment, all we can find is an LOM-to-glider converter or two, with no clear way to build the input LOMs.

As you say, it's a really common active pattern, and it splits into two halves that travel pretty well. So it seems as if, if we could find a nice clean H-to-LOM with the right orientation, we really ought to be able to find a half-blockade-to-H converter to go with it, and end up with another kind of Herschel signal splitter. But it's starting to look as if some kind of transparent catalyst will be needed to manage that trick.

Half-blockade do have quite a number of uses. The G4-to-R conduit makes a half-blockade with its first glider, for example... and very strangely, you can build a three-block toggle constellation by hitting a half-blockade with a single glider.

But it would be better to be able to catch the half-blockade reaction before it settles, somehow, and turn it into some other kind of signal that we already know how to handle. If you have to add another glider or MWSS or whatever to get any use out of a half-blockade, you might as well just throw away the half blockade and use the other signal instead.
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 4572
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby Rhombic » January 2nd, 2018, 8:02 pm

Unearthing this thread after I (hopefully) moved on from being a total newbie.
Don't worry, this is not necro-ing for no reason, just for compactness. I doubt this catalyst is known, and it seems to have a brilliant clearance. More catalysts coming but tomorrow because it's time for bed and I've got a mountain of revision to do in the morning. Happy days.
x = 21, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
o$2o$b2o10b2ob2o$2bo11bob2o$14bo$9b2ob2ob3o$10b2obobo2bo$8bo6bobo2bo$
8b8obob2o$17bo$8b2o2b4obo$8b2o2bo2bobob2o$13b2o2bo2bo$17b2o!
Smaller but harder to synthesise:
x = 18, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
o$2o$b2o10b2o$2bo11bo$14bob2o$9b2ob2obobo$10b2obobo$8bo6bo$8b7ob2o$14b
obo$10b3obo2bo$9bo2b2ob2o$9b2o4bo$15bobo$16b2o!
There are many variants, a Bellman search forcing the critical cells on could give the smallest catalyst.
Tiny 33-cell one, with a slightly less WOW catalytic section, feasible synth:
x = 18, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
o$2o$b2o10b2o$2bo11bo$14bob2o$9b2ob2obobo$10b2obobo$8bo6bo$8b7o2$10b2o
b2o$10b2ob2o!
OK, now I really doubt it gets any smaller than that.
SoL : FreeElectronics : DeadlyEnemies : 6a-ite
what is “sesame oil”?
User avatar
Rhombic
 
Posts: 968
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 5:41 pm

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby calcyman » January 2nd, 2018, 9:57 pm

Rhombic wrote:Unearthing this thread after I (hopefully) moved on from being a total newbie.
Don't worry, this is not necro-ing for no reason, just for compactness. I doubt this catalyst is known, and it seems to have a brilliant clearance. More catalysts coming but tomorrow because it's time for bed and I've got a mountain of revision to do in the morning. Happy days.
x = 21, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
o$2o$b2o10b2ob2o$2bo11bob2o$14bo$9b2ob2ob3o$10b2obobo2bo$8bo6bobo2bo$
8b8obob2o$17bo$8b2o2b4obo$8b2o2bo2bobob2o$13b2o2bo2bo$17b2o!


Beautiful! You may not have realised it, but that's very notable in being the first elementary 5c/9 signal injector:

x = 59, y = 52, rule = B3/S23
o$2o$b2o10b2ob2o$2bo11bobobo$14bo3bo$9b2ob2ob3o3bo$10b2obobo2b4o$8bo6b
obo6bo$8b8obo2b5o$17bobo5b2o$6b5ob4obo2bob2obobo$5bo4bobo2bob2obobobo
2bo$5b2o2bo3bo2bo3bobo4bob2o$10b3o4b4ob2o2b2o2bo$15bobo6bo3bo$10b6obob
5ob3o3bo$9bo6bobo4bobo2b4o$9bobo2bo3bo2bo3bobo6bo$10b2o2b2o2bobob4obo
2b5o$17b2obo6bobo5b2o$20bob4obo2bob2obobo$20bobo2bob2obobobo2bo$19b2o
2bo2bo3bobo4bob2o$21b2o4b4ob2o2b2o2bo$21bo3bobo6bo3bo$22b4obob5ob3o3bo
$26bobo4bobo2b4o$24bo3bo2bo3bobo6bo$24b2o2bobob4obo2b5o$27b2obo6bobo5b
2o$30bob4obo2bob2obobo$30bobo2bob2obobobo2bo$29b2o2bo2bo3bobo4bob2o$
31b2o4b4ob2o2b2o2bo$31bo3bobo6bo3bo$32b4obob5ob3o3bo$36bobo4bobo2b4o$
34bo3bo2bo3bobo6bo$34b2o2bobob4obo2b5o$37b2obo6bobo5b2o$40bob4obo2bob
2obo2bo$40bobo2bob2obobobo2b2o$39b2o2bo2bo3bobo$41b2o4b4ob2o$41bo3bobo
6bo$42b4obob5obo$46bobo4bobo$44bo3bo2bo3b2o$44b2o2bobob3o2bo$47b2obo5b
o$51bob3o$52b2o!


Well done!
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!
User avatar
calcyman
 
Posts: 1567
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 4:32 pm

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby danny » January 2nd, 2018, 10:13 pm

What search program are you using? My CGoL new years resolution is to run some search programs on my computer and hopefully find some swanky catalyses like these.
Like what I'm doing? Click these eggs to show me: Image Image Image Image
User avatar
danny
 
Posts: 496
Joined: October 27th, 2017, 3:43 pm
Location: i love to eat bees

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby Jackk » January 2nd, 2018, 10:14 pm

Well, it is if there's any way to stop it destroying the still life (there sold easily be, bit I'm not in a position to have a look at the moment).

Very cool!

Is there any known way to extract a signal from a 5c/9?
Jackk
 
Posts: 80
Joined: March 13th, 2012, 3:49 pm

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby Rhombic » January 3rd, 2018, 5:37 am

Oh, I hadn't realised at all so I didn't give it a second thought!
danny wrote:What search program are you using? My CGoL new years resolution is to run some search programs on my computer and hopefully find some swanky catalyses like these.
Just Bellman :)
It can be stabilised by a well-placed eater:
x = 18, y = 25, rule = B3/S23
9bo$7b3o$6bo$6b2o10$o$2o$b2o10b2o$2bo11bo$14bob2o$9b2ob2obobo$10b2obob
o$8bo6bo$8b7o2$10b2ob2o$10b2ob2o!

This allows the non-destructive use of the injector, but if we want to do any interesting catalysis with LoM, the eater might not be appropriate. The sparks to the left can be used to change the outcome of the interaction but maybe dismissing the eater altogether could be more useful if proper conduits are sought. But I think this is extremely versatile and there must be loads of results to interact with the ulterior pattern. In fact, it becomes a 3500+ methuselah if (after the interaction) we remove the first catalyst.
In any case...
velcrorex wrote:Keep hunting everyone. There's (probably) good stuff out there waiting to be discovered.

EDIT: for the clean 5c/9 injector, this other eater leaves only two blinkers behind
x = 18, y = 25, rule = B3/S23
9b2o$9bo$7bobo$7b2o10$o$2o$b2o10b2o$2bo11bo$14bob2o$9b2ob2obobo$10b2ob
obo$8bo6bo$8b7o2$10b2ob2o$10b2ob2o!
SoL : FreeElectronics : DeadlyEnemies : 6a-ite
what is “sesame oil”?
User avatar
Rhombic
 
Posts: 968
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 5:41 pm

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby Rhombic » January 3rd, 2018, 8:40 am

Why are so many weird catalysts coming up? This is a potential follow-up catalyst which unfortunately, in spite of giving a lot of time for further interactions, is a bit restricted inside the active area. An eater stabilises the pattern but then again, unless a new interaction is found, it's still not great.
x = 23, y = 29, rule = B3/S23
10b2o$10bobo$12bo2b2o$11b2obo2bo$14bobobo$2o9b4o2bo$bo9bo3b2o$bobo8b3o
$2b2o10bo$14bobo$15b2o7$5bo$5b2o$6b2o10b2o$7bo11bo$19bob2o$14b2ob2obob
o$15b2obobo$13bo6bo$13b7o2$15b2ob2o$15b2ob2o!
Hang on, is this the Snark catalyst that this can interact with?! EDIT: almost, but no
x = 18, y = 28, rule = B3/S23
8b2o$3b2o2bobo$3bo3bo4bo$4b3ob5o$6bobo$6bobob3o$7b2obo2bo$12b2o9$o$2o$
b2o10b2o$2bo11bo$14bob2o$9b2ob2obobo$10b2obobo$8bo6bo$8b7o2$10b2ob2o$
10b2ob2o!
Last edited by Rhombic on January 3rd, 2018, 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
SoL : FreeElectronics : DeadlyEnemies : 6a-ite
what is “sesame oil”?
User avatar
Rhombic
 
Posts: 968
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 5:41 pm

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby gmc_nxtman » January 3rd, 2018, 8:59 am

Rhombic wrote:Hang on, is this the Snark catalyst that this can interact with?!?!
...


Not quite:

x = 58, y = 28, rule = B3/S23
18b2o27b2o$13b2o2bobo27bobo$13bo3bo4bo26bo4b2o$14b3ob5o22b4ob2o2bo2bo$
5b2o9bobo26bo2bobobobob2o$6bo9bobob3o25bobobobo$6bobo8b2obo2bo25b2obob
o$7b2o4b3o6b2o29bo$12bo2bo33bo$12bo2bo23b2o7b3o$12b2o26bo6bobobo$40bob
o4bo3bo$3bo37b3ob2o5b2o$b2ob2o7bo29b2o4bo4bo$bo2b2o5b2ob2o27b3o2bob2o
2b2o$o5bo4b2ob2o28bob6obo$bob4o3bo3b2o29b2o$bob2o6bo2bo31bo$11bobo9b2o
$24bo26b2o$b3ob3o16bob2o23bo$bo2bo14b2ob2obobo24b3o$3b3o2bo11b2obobo
28bo$3b2o2bo10bo6bo$3b2obo11b7o$5bo$20b2ob2o$20b2ob2o!


I believe the catalyst on the left is called "drifter", and it is equivalent to an eater3 in most cases.

EDIT: Oops, you already edited it but I think the comparison is still interesting
User avatar
gmc_nxtman
 
Posts: 1097
Joined: May 26th, 2015, 7:20 pm

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby dvgrn » January 3rd, 2018, 10:20 am

Anyone have any prior art for a direct H->LoM converter, or should we just build something composite for now to collide two gliders, or maybe build a still life and hit it with a glider?

x = 21, y = 25, rule = B3/S23
12b2o$12bo$10bobo$10b2o5$bo$2bo$3o5$16b2o$17bo$3bo13bob2o$3b2o7b2ob2ob
obo$2bobo8b2obobo$11bo6bo$11b7o2$13b2ob2o$13b2ob2o!

That will maybe give some sense of how a 5c/9 signal injector could be completed. Of course, once you get started throwing gliders at things, it's always tempting to just add a few more synchronized gliders to solve the cleanup problem.

Looks like the injector could handle just a half-LoM, so maybe it's also worth looking for ways to suppress or modify the other half of the LoM, possibly several ticks before the interaction with the injector occurs:

x = 17, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
5b2o$5b2o2$2o$2b3o$4b2o$3bo2b2o$2b2ob3o4b2o$6b2o5bo$4b2o7bob2o$3b2o3b
2ob2obobo$9b2obobo$7bo6bo$7b7o2$9b2ob2o$9b2ob2o!
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 4572
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby Rhombic » January 3rd, 2018, 11:00 am

dvgrn wrote:Anyone have any prior art for a direct H->LoM converter, or should we just build something composite for now to collide two gliders, or maybe build a still life and hit it with a glider?
Looks like the injector could handle just a half-LoM, so maybe it's also worth looking for ways to suppress or modify the other half of the LoM, possibly several ticks before the interaction with the injector occurs

Close call although synthesis of the HF is probably hard or impossible in that position:
x = 45, y = 25, rule = B3/S23
17b2o18b2o$17bo19bo$18b3o17b3o$15b3o3bob2o10b3o3bob2o$15bo2b2obob2o10b
o2b2obob2o$3bo14bo2bo16bo2bo$3b3o13bobob2o14bobob2o$6bo11b2obob2o13b2o
bob2o$5b2o11bo2bo16bo2bo$20b2o18b2o3$b2o$b2o5b2o$8bo25b3o$34bobo$7b3o
23bo2bo$2b2o29bobo$bobo29b3o$bo$2o3$14b2o18b2o$14b2o18b2o!
SoL : FreeElectronics : DeadlyEnemies : 6a-ite
what is “sesame oil”?
User avatar
Rhombic
 
Posts: 968
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 5:41 pm

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby simeks » January 3rd, 2018, 11:14 am

Rhombic wrote:I doubt this catalyst is known, and it seems to have a brilliant clearance.
[...]

5c/9 signal injector

Congratulations, very nice find!

One possible stabilization:

x = 50, y = 45, rule = LifeHistory
20.2C$20.C$18.C.C$18.2C10$11.A$11.2A$12.2A10.2A.2A$13.A11.A.A.A$25.A
3.A$20.2A.2A.3A3.A$21.2A.A.A2.4A$19.A6.A.A6.A$19.8A.A2.5A$28.A.A5.2A$
.C15.5A.4A.A2.A.2A.A.A$C.C13.A4.A.A2.A.2A.A.A.A2.A$2C3.2C9.2A2.A3.A2.
A3.A.A4.A.2A$5.2C14.3A4.4A.2A2.2A2.A$26.A.A6.A3.A$21.6A.A.5A.3A3.A$
20.A6.A.A4.A.A2.4A$20.A.A2.A3.A2.A3.A.A6.A$21.2A2.2A2.A.A.4A.A2.5A$
28.2A.A6.A.A5.2A$31.A.4A.A2.A.2A.A2.A$31.A.A2.A.2A.A.A.A2.2A$30.2A2.A
2.A3.A.A$32.2A4.4A.2A$32.A3.A.A6.A$33.4A.A.5A.A$37.A.A4.A.A$35.A3.A2.
A3.2A$35.2A2.A.A.3A2.A$38.2A.A5.A$42.A.3A$43.2A!
simeks
 
Posts: 344
Joined: March 11th, 2015, 12:03 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby dvgrn » January 3rd, 2018, 11:52 am

simeks wrote:
Rhombic wrote:
5c/9 signal injector

Congratulations, very nice find!

One possible stabilization...

Nice. Gets in the way of the two-glider LoM insertion, though, and also doesn't fit with the only glider+small object collision I know of that makes a LOM:

x = 46, y = 45, rule = B3/S23
16b2o$16bo$14bobo$14b2o12$20b2ob2o$bo19bobobo$obo18bo3bo$obo13b2ob2ob
3o3bo$bo15b2obobo2b4o$15bo6bobo6bo$15b8obo2b5o$24bobo5b2o$13b5ob4obo2b
ob2obobo$12bo4bobo2bob2obobobo2bo$12b2o2bo3bo2bo3bobo4bob2o$17b3o4b4ob
2o2b2o2bo$5b2o15bobo6bo3bo$5bobo9b6obob5ob3o3bo$5bo10bo6bobo4bobo2b4o$
16bobo2bo3bo2bo3bobo6bo$17b2o2b2o2bobob4obo2b5o$24b2obo6bobo5b2o$27bob
4obo2bob2obo2bo$27bobo2bob2obobobo2b2o$26b2o2bo2bo3bobo$28b2o4b4ob2o$
28bo3bobo6bo$29b4obob5obo$33bobo4bobo$31bo3bo2bo3b2o$31b2o2bobob3o2bo$
34b2obo5bo$38bob3o$39b2o!

-- I looked up LoMs in a list I made several years back, and the beehive collision is the only LoM generator. Mark Niemiec's database doesn't have any other small-object collisions; the only other conversions that I recognize are a teardrop+glider and a pre-eater+glider:

#N 6lm.rle
#O Mark D. Niemiec's life synthesis database, Thu Feb 19 02:05:20 2015
x = 128, y = 96, rule = B3/S23
84bo$83bo$bbo80b3o$obo29bx$boo29bx79bx$31bx49boobboo24bxx$3boo27bxx46b
oboboo25bxbx$4boo26bxx48bo3bo25bxx$3bo13$78bo$3bobo73bo$4boo71b3o$4bo
26bxx78bxx$31bxbbx41bo34bxbx$9bo3bo17bxbbx41boo33bxbx$7boboboo19bxbx
40bobo34bxx$8boobboo6$72b3o$9bobo62bo$9boo62bo$10bo$bbo$3bo$b3o$42bx$
4bo38bx52bo27byby$4boo35bxbx46boo3bo26bx3by$3bobo33bxbxx46bobo3b3o23bx
$38b3x50bo29bxbbx$38b3x55bo25bxx$95boo26bx$95bobo8$98bobo$11bo86boo$9b
obo87bo27by$10boo113byy$$9bo32bx$8bobo32bx80byby$8bobo30bxbx78bx3by$9b
o29bxbxx78bx3by$38b3x53boobboo21bx$38b3x52boboboo22bxbbx$95bo3bo22bxx
9$98bo$98bobo$98boo26by$125by$125byby$42bx82byby$43bx$41bxbx78bx3by$
39bxbxx78bx3by$38b3x53boobboo21bx$38b3x52boboboo22bxbbx$9boobboo80bo3b
o22bxx$8boboboo$10bo3bo4$14boo$14bobo$14bo!

Seems likely that a little exploration would find a workable synchronized Herschel+glider, though, or something along those lines.
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 4572
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby simeks » January 3rd, 2018, 12:16 pm

dvgrn wrote:Nice. Gets in the way of the two-glider LoM insertion, though, and also doesn't fit with the only glider+small object collision I know of that makes a LOM:

I was looking for a high-clearence stabilization. Here are two for the glider collision, one of them with a surprise return glider:

x = 110, y = 41, rule = LifeHistory
.A63.A9.2C$2.A4.2C57.A8.C.C.2C2.2C$3A4.2C55.3A10.C.C.C2.C$18.2C56.C.C
2.2C.C.2C$18.C58.C3.C2.C2.C$16.C.C64.C.C$16.2C66.C3$2C62.2C$2C62.2C$
20.2A.2A59.2A.2A$21.A.A.A59.A.A.A$21.A3.A59.A3.A$16.2A.2A.3A3.A51.2A.
2A.3A3.A$17.2A.A.A2.4A52.2A.A.A2.4A$15.A6.A.A6.A47.A6.A.A6.A$3.A11.8A
.A2.5A35.A11.8A.A2.5A$3.2A19.A.A5.2A33.2A19.A.A5.2A$2.A.A8.5A.4A.A2.A
.2A.A.A31.A.A8.5A.4A.A2.A.2A.A.A$12.A4.A.A2.A.2A.A.A.A2.A41.A4.A.A2.A
.2A.A.A.A2.A$12.2A2.A3.A2.A3.A.A4.A.2A38.2A2.A3.A2.A3.A.A4.A.2A$17.3A
4.4A.2A2.2A2.A43.3A4.4A.2A2.2A2.A$22.A.A6.A3.A50.A.A6.A3.A$17.6A.A.5A
.3A3.A42.6A.A.5A.3A3.A$16.A6.A.A4.A.A2.4A41.A6.A.A4.A.A2.4A$16.A.A2.A
3.A2.A3.A.A6.A38.A.A2.A3.A2.A3.A.A6.A$17.2A2.2A2.A.A.4A.A2.5A39.2A2.
2A2.A.A.4A.A2.5A$24.2A.A6.A.A5.2A44.2A.A6.A.A5.2A$27.A.4A.A2.A.2A.A2.
A45.A.4A.A2.A.2A.A2.A$27.A.A2.A.2A.A.A.A2.2A45.A.A2.A.2A.A.A.A2.2A$
26.2A2.A2.A3.A.A50.2A2.A2.A3.A.A$28.2A4.4A.2A51.2A4.4A.2A$28.A3.A.A6.
A50.A3.A.A6.A$29.4A.A.5A.A50.4A.A.5A.A$33.A.A4.A.A54.A.A4.A.A$31.A3.A
2.A3.2A51.A3.A2.A3.2A$31.2A2.A.A.3A2.A50.2A2.A.A.3A2.A$34.2A.A5.A54.
2A.A5.A$38.A.3A59.A.3A$39.2A62.2A!
simeks
 
Posts: 344
Joined: March 11th, 2015, 12:03 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby chris_c » January 3rd, 2018, 12:41 pm

simeks wrote:Here are two for the glider collision, one of them with a surprise return glider:


Nice. Here is my attempt at Glider->LOM in that case:

x = 159, y = 70, rule = B3/S23
77b2o11bo$77b2o10bobo$89bobo2b2o3bo$88b2ob2o2bo2bobo$92bobo3bobo$88b2o
bo2b4obo$88b2obobo3bo$92bobo3bo$93bobo3bo$94bo3b2o2$113b2o$113bo$85b2o
24bobo$85b2o24b2o4b2o$70b2o45bo$52bo16bo2bo42bobo$50b3o15bob2o43b2o$
49bo18bo$38bo10b2o16b2o$37bobo42b2o$37bobo42bo32b2o$35b3ob2o20bo21b3o
29bobo$34bo24b3o23bo10b2o19bo$28bo6b3ob2o17bo36bobo19b2o$5bo22b3o6bob
2o17b2o35bo$3bobo25bo62b2o10b2o12b2o$4b2o12bo11b2o75bo12b2o$16b3o36b2o
47b3o24b2o$15bo38bo2bo46bo26bo$15b2o38b2o72bobo$2o127b2o$bo$bob2o105b
2o$2bo2bo104bo2b2o$3b2o106bob2o$18b2o90b2o21b2ob2o$18b2o23b2o52b2o12bo
22bobobo$43bo44b2o7b2o10bo24bo3bo$44b3o42bo14b2o2bob4o15b2ob2ob3o3bo$
46bo42bobo12bo3bo4bo16b2obobo2b4o$27bo3b2o57b2o13b3obobo16bo6bobo6bo$
26bobo3bo74bobob2o15b8obo2b5o$25bobo3bo51b2o23bo28bobo5b2o$21b2obobo3b
o53bo41b5ob4obo2bob2obobo$21b2obo2b4obo51bobo38bo4bobo2bob2obobobo2bo$
25bobo3bobo40bo10b2o38b2o2bo3bo2bo3bobo4bob2o$21b2ob2o2bo2bobo38b3o55b
3o4b4ob2o2b2o2bo$22bobo2b2o3bo38bo63bobo6bo3bo$10b2o10bobo46b2o57b6obo
b5ob3o3bo$10b2o11bo32b2o58b2o11bo6bobo4bobo2b4o$57bo58bobo10bobo2bo3bo
2bo3bobo6bo$57bob2o57bo11b2o2b2o2bobob4obo2b5o$58bo2bo47b2o7b2o17b2obo
6bobo5b2o$59b2o48b2o29bob4obo2bob2obo2bo$74b2o64bobo2bob2obobobo2b2o$
74b2o63b2o2bo2bo3bobo$141b2o4b4ob2o$97b2o42bo3bobo6bo$97b2o2b2o39b4obo
b5obo$83bo3b2o12bobo42bobo4bobo$82bobo3bo14bo40bo3bo2bo3b2o$81bobo3bo
15b2o39b2o2bobob3o2bo$77b2obobo3bo60b2obo5bo$77b2obo2b4obo62bob3o$81bo
bo3bobo62b2o$77b2ob2o2bo2bobo$78bobo2b2o3bo$66b2o10bobo$66b2o11bo!
chris_c
 
Posts: 802
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby dvgrn » January 3rd, 2018, 2:25 pm

chris_c wrote:
simeks wrote:Here are two for the glider collision, one of them with a surprise return glider:


Nice. Here is my attempt at Glider->LOM in that case...

Here's what it looks like with the current GPAT collection:

x = 90, y = 106, rule = LifeHistory
19.A$17.3A$16.A$15.A.A$14.BA.A$13.3BA5.C$11.4B6.BC.C$9.6B5.2B2C$8.7B
4.4B$.B.4B.8B2.4B$2AB.17B$2A18B$.2B.16B$4.16B$5.15B$6.12B.B2A$6.11B2.
BA.A$7.10B5.A$7.6B2A2B5.2A$7.6B2A3B$7.10B22.2A$3.A.2AB.8B22.A.A$.3AB
2AB3.7B23.A4.2A$A4.B6.6B19.4A.2A2.A2.A$.3A.2A4.6B20.A2.A.A.A.A.2A$3.
2A2.A4.5B22.BABABA.A$6.A.A.8B22.B2ABA.A$2.A.2A.A.A8B23.2B.BA$2.2A.A.B
A2B.6B7.2A13.3B$5.A2.2B2.2B3D2B6.A5.2A6.4B$5.2A.B3.2BD4B3.BA.A6.A6.B
2A3B$3.2A2.A.A2.B3D4B2.B2A7.A.AB3.B2A4B13.A$2.A2.A2.2A2.11B10.2AB.10B
10.3A$3.2A7.11B12.13B8.A$12.11B12.14B7.2A$13.11B11.15B3.5B$13.2B.7B
14.8B2.4B2.3B$12.11B14.6B5.9B7.2A$12.10B14.9B4.8B8.A$10.12B13.4B4.2A
5.10B3.B.A.2A$8.13B13.4B5.A6.7B2A2B.B3A2.A$7.17B9.4B7.3A3.7B2A3BAB2.
2A$7.18B7.4B10.A3.12B4A$5.2AB.13B2A2B5.4B11.A.2AB.7B3.2B.A$4.A.AB3.4B
.6B2AB5.4B10.2A.A.AB.7B2.B3A$4.A8.B4.8B3.4B11.A2.A5.5B3.A$3.2A15.6B2.
4B14.2A5.4B5.5A$19.7B.4B21.4B10.A$19.6B.4B7.A13.4B9.A$7.A12.9B8.3A10.
4B10.2A$6.A.A11.8B12.A8.4B$6.A.A10.8B12.2A7.4B$4.3A.2A9.7B13.5B3.4B$
3.A4.B10.6B16.3B2.4B$4.3AB2A8.2B3D2B6.2A7.9B$6.A.2A8.4BD2B6.A8.8B$8.
4B.3B.4B3DB3.2A.A.B3.10B$10.2B.12B3.A2.3AB.2B2A7B$9.16B4.2A2.BA3B2A7B
$7.18B6.4A12B$5.19B7.A.2B3.7B.B2A$4.17B11.3AB2.7B.BA.A$5.17B13.A3.5B
5.A$6.20B4.5A5.4B5.2A$6.21B3.A10.4B$7.21B4.A9.3BD$7.21B3.2A10.3BD4.2A
$7.21B16.3DB.2B2AB$7.19B.B2A15.8B9.2A$3.A.2AB.17B.BA.A15.7B.2B6.A$.3A
B2AB2.14B6.A16.9B3.BA.A$A4.B6.5B.B2.4B5.2A16.10B.B2A$.3A.2A7.B.2B4.4B
23.11B$3.A.A7.A2B2AB4.4B18.B.13B$3.A.A6.A.A.BA6.4B16.2AB.13B$4.A7.A.A
.A8.4B15.2A16B$13.2A.A.A7.4B15.2B.14B2.2A.2A$17.2A8.4B17.14B3.A.A.A$
28.4B18.12B.B.A3.A$29.4B10.A6.8B2.2AB2A.3A3.A$30.4B7.3A5.4B3.B4.2A.A.
A2.4A$31.4B5.A7.4B7.A4.B.ABA6.A$32.4B4.2A5.D3B8.8A.A.B5A$33.9B4.B2DB
16.2BABA5.2A$34.6B5.BDBD8.5A.4A.A2.A.2A.A.A$34.8B2.4B8.A4.A.A2.A.2ABA
.A.A2.A$32.15B9.2A2.A3.A2.A3.A.A4.A.2A$32.14B15.3A4.4AB2A2.2A2.A$32.
13B21.A.A.B.B2.A3.A$30.2AB.10B17.6A.A.5A.3A3.A$29.A.AB3.B2A4B17.A6.A.
A2.B.A.A2.4A$29.A6.B2A3B18.A.A2.A3.A.BA.B.ABA6.A$28.2A6.5B20.2A2.2A2.
A.A.4A.A.B5A$36.4B28.2A.A4.2BABA5.2A$35.5B.BA28.A.4A.A2.A.2A.A2.A$37.
B2ABA.A27.A.A2.A.2ABA.A.A2.2A$36.BABABA.A26.2A2.A2.A3.A.A$34.A2.A.A.A
.A.2A25.2A4.4AB2A$34.4A.2A2.A2.A25.A3.A.A.B.B2.A$38.A4.2A28.4A.A.5A.A
$36.A.A38.A.A2.B.A.A$36.2A37.A3.A.BA.B.2A$75.2A2.A.A.3A2.A$78.2A.A5.A
$82.A.3A$83.2A!

This has one Snark too many for my taste. If we had an elementary H-to-2G with glider outputs in opposite directions, for each of the sixteen categories, then a good fraction of these kinds of synchronization problems could be done with three Snarks, or occasionally one Snark plus a rectifier I suppose. Will really have to get back to finishing that glider-adjustment stamp collection properly, sometime in 2018.

... So now we just need a 5c/9-to-glider converter -- and a 5c/9 elbow that recovers in less than 20 ticks, I suppose, while I'm putting in requests for unknown stuff.
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 4572
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby calcyman » January 3rd, 2018, 2:51 pm

dvgrn wrote:
chris_c wrote:
simeks wrote:Here are two for the glider collision, one of them with a surprise return glider:


Nice. Here is my attempt at Glider->LOM in that case...

Here's what it looks like with the current GPAT collection:


Is there a faster H-to-2G in terms of recovery time? I would be mortified if the repeat time of this conduit could not be brought down to 62 ticks (or whatever the repeat time of the 2G-to-5c/9 is, if it's greater than 62).
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!
User avatar
calcyman
 
Posts: 1567
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 4:32 pm

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby simeks » January 3rd, 2018, 5:13 pm

Here's the best H-to-LOM I can find in a database of small H catalysts I'm working on.
No room to stabilize it, but the signal does get in:

x = 45, y = 50, rule = LifeHistory
33.2A$34.A6.A$32.A7.A.A$32.2A4.3A2.A$30.2A2.A2.A3.A.A$31.A.A2.A.2A.A.
2A$31.A.4A.A2.A2.A$28.2A.A6.A.A2.A$25.2A2.A.A.4A.A2.2A$25.A3.A2.A3.A.
A$27.A.A4.A.A2.4A$23.4A.A.5A.3A3.A$22.A3.A.A6.A3.A$22.2A4.4A.2A2.2A2.
A$20.2A2.A2.A3.A.A4.A.2A$21.A.A2.A.2A.A.A.A2.A$21.A.4A.A2.A.2A.A.A$
18.2A.A6.A.A5.2A$19.A.A.4A.A2.5A$19.A2.A3.A.A6.A$16.2A.A4.A.A2.4A$15.
A2.A.5A.3A3.A$15.2A.A6.A3.A$18.4A.2A2.2A2.A$15.3A3.A.A4.A.2A$15.A2.2A
.A.A.A2.A$18.A2.A.2A.A.A$19.A.A4.A.A.2A$18.2A.A.2A.A.A2.A$18.A2.A.A.A
3.2A$20.2A.A$24.4A$26.A$2C26.A$.C21.2C2.2A$.C.C10.3D5.C.C$2.2C10.D.D
5.C$13.D2.D4.2C$13.D.D7.2C$13.3D5.2C2.C$22.C.C$20.C.C.2C$20.2C$2.A$2.
A.A$2.3A$4.A11.2C$16.C$17.3C$19.C!
simeks
 
Posts: 344
Joined: March 11th, 2015, 12:03 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby dvgrn » January 3rd, 2018, 5:24 pm

calcyman wrote:Is there a faster H-to-2G in terms of recovery time? I would be mortified if the repeat time of this conduit could not be brought down to 62 ticks (or whatever the repeat time of the 2G-to-5c/9 is, if it's greater than 62).

You must have a lot of gliders that you want to convert expensively into nothing, if you're in that much of a hurry. But I'm afraid you might be in for some minor mortification, unless you know some tricks that I don't, or if you already have a handy source of two streams of 62-tick separation gliders in desperate need of 5c/9ification.

We don't really have glider splitters with a repeat rate faster than 78 ticks -- or 74 or 75 if you don't mind using the syringe's special cases. Most (all?) Herschel conduits can't be allowed to let their first natural gliders out below a 69-tick repeat time, anyway.

What made you mention 62 ticks? As it happens that _is_ exactly the repeat time of the 2G-to-5c/9.

Looks like your best bet for a known faster "Ee1"-rated H-to-2G is NW18T106. That will get you down to repeat time 74/75/78+, or down to 69 if you want to use some non-syringe way of feeding signals into a Herschel conduit. (Such things exist, if I remember right, but they aren't very pretty.)

x = 133, y = 121, rule = LifeHistory
118.2A$119.A6.A$117.A7.A.A$117.2A4.3A2.A$115.2A2.A2.A3.A.A$116.A.A2.A
.2ABA.2A$48.2A66.A.4A.A2.A2.A$48.A.A62.2A.A4.2BABA2.A$50.A4.2A53.2A2.
A.A.4A.A.B2A$46.4A.2A2.A2.A51.A3.A.BA.B.ABA$46.A2.A.A.A.A.2A53.A.A2.B
.A.A2.4A$48.BABABA.A52.4A.A.5A.3A3.A$49.B2ABA.A51.A3.A.A.B.B2.A3.A$
47.5B.BA52.2A4.4AB2A2.2A2.A$48.4B53.2A2.A2.A3.A.A4.A.2A$40.2A6.5B53.A
.A2.A.2ABA.A.A2.A$41.A6.B2A3B52.A.4A.A2.A.2A.A.A$41.A.AB3.B2A4B48.2A.
A4.2BABA5.2A$42.2AB.10B48.A.A.4A.A.B5A$44.13B47.A.BA.B.ABA6.A$44.14B
43.2A.A2.B.A.A2.4A$44.15B41.A2.A.5A.3A3.A$46.8B2.4B40.2A.A.B.B2.A3.A$
46.6B5.4B42.4AB2A2.2A2.A$45.9B4.4B38.3A3.A.A4.A.2A$32.2A4B6.4B4.2A5.
4B37.A2.2ABA.A.A2.A$33.A.4B4.4B5.A7.4B28.A9.BA2.A.2A.A.A$31.A4.4B2.4B
7.3A5.4B27.3A8.BA.A4.A.A.2A$31.5A.8B5.3A2.A6.4B29.A3.4B2A.A.2A.A.A2.A
$36.A.7B5.A2.A9.4B27.2A2.5BA2.A.A.A3.2A$33.3AB2.7B.BA.A2.2A9.4B26.9B
2.2A.A$32.A.2B2.8B.B2A15.4B27.7B5.A$32.4A12B18.4B25.9B4.A.A$30.2A2.BA
3B2A7B19.4B24.10B4.2A$29.A2.3A4B2A7B20.4B21.11B$29.2A.A.B.12B21.4B20.
11B$32.A3.B4.8B21.4B17.B2.10B$32.2A7.9B21.4B15.2A13B$42.3B2.4B21.4B
14.2A14B$40.5B3.4B21.4B10.A3.16B$40.2A7.4B21.4B7.3A3.11B2.4B$41.A8.4B
21.4B5.A7.4B.5B3.2B2D$38.3A10.4B21.4B4.2A5.4B2.B.B6.2D2B$38.A13.4B21.
9B4.2D2B4.3B6.BD2B$53.4B21.6B5.DBDB4.B2AB7.4B$54.4B20.8B2.3BD6.2A9.4B
$55.4B17.15B19.4B$56.4B16.14B21.4B$57.4B15.13B23.4B$58.4B12.2AB.10B
25.4B$59.4B10.A.AB3.B2A4B27.4B10.2A$60.4B9.A6.B2A3B29.4B9.A$61.4B7.2A
6.5B31.4B10.A$62.4B14.4B26.2A5.4B5.5A$63.4B12.5B.BA24.A5.5B3.A$24.2A
11.A26.4B13.B2ABA.A23.A.AB.7B2.B3A$23.B2AB9.A.A26.4B11.BABABA.A24.2AB
.8B2.2B.A$24.3B9.A.A2.2A3.A19.4B8.A2.A.A.A.A.2A23.12B4A$23.B.B9.2A.2A
2.A2.A.A12.A6.4B7.4A.2A2.A.2A23.7B2A3BAB2.2A$23.5B8.B2.A.A3.A.A10.3A
7.4B10.A4.A26.7B2A4B3A2.A$23.6B6.2ABA2.4A.A10.A11.4B7.A.A3.2A26.12B.B
.A.2A$23.8B4.2A.A.A3.A12.2A11.4B6.2A31.8B4.B3.A$24.13B2.A.AB2.A9.4B
12.4B9.4A24.9B7.2A$22.13B5.A.A2B.A7.3B15.4B7.A3.A23.4B2.3B$21.15B5.A
2B.2A7.4B15.4B6.2A25.4B3.5B$21.15B4.3B10.5B8.2A6.4B2.5B24.4B7.2A$20.
17B.B.2B11.6B8.A7.8B25.4B8.A$20.29B2.8B8.A.AB5.8B23.4B10.3A$19.13B2A
11BD14B8.2AB.3B2.8B21.4B13.A$18.14B2A9B3D13B11.16B19.4B$17.2AB3.20BDB
D4B.7B12.18B16.4B$16.A2.A4.19BD15B12.17B15.4B$15.A.2A5.6B3.B2.2B2.19B
11.16B.B2A12.4B$15.A7.6B14.17B8.17B2.BA.A10.4B$14.2A6.9B14.15B.2B2.
20B5.A9.4B$21.4B4.2A15.22BD15B6.2A7.4B$20.4B5.A16.8B.13BDBD4B.7B15.4B
$19.3CB7.3A11.8B3.2B2A9B3D4B2.6B14.4B$21.C10.A11.2A3.B5.2B2A11BD4B3.
6B12.4B$20.C24.A10.18B6.4B11.4B$42.3A4.A7.B.3B.4B5.B6.B2A2B3.2A5.4B$
42.A6.3A10.4B14.2A.B2A2.A4.4B$52.A8.4B18.BA.2A4.4B$51.2A7.4B22.A4.4B$
51.5B3.4B23.A3.4B$53.3B2.4B22.2A3.4B$43.2A7.9B19.2A.A4.4B$43.A3.B4.8B
20.A.2A3.4B$40.2A.A.B.12B27.4B$40.A2.3A4B2A7B26.4B$41.2A2.BA3B2A7B25.
4B$43.4A12B24.4B$43.A.2B2.8B.B2A21.4B$44.3AB2.7B.BA.A19.4B$47.A3.5B5.
A18.4B$.2C39.5A5.4B5.2A16.4B$C.C39.A10.4B21.4B$2.C41.A9.4B19.4B$43.2A
10.4B10.A6.4B$56.4B7.3A5.4B$57.4B5.A7.4B$58.4B4.2A5.4B$59.9B4.4B$60.
6B5.4B$60.8B2.4B$58.15B$58.14B$58.13B$56.2AB.10B$55.A.AB3.B2A4B$55.A
6.B2A3B$54.2A6.5B$62.4B$61.5B.BA$63.B2ABA.A$62.BABABA.A$60.A2.A.A.A.A
.2A$60.4A.2A2.A2.A$64.A4.2A$62.A.A$62.2A!

However, as you can see, it's easy to end up with geometry problems when you swap out H-to-2Gs. Anyone who might be tempted to try optimizing the above, please be warned: these gliders are in the most annoying possible category group, Oo1/Ee1/Oe3/Eo3.

That means that if you try rotating the 2G-to-5c/9 by 90 degrees clockwise while leaving the input Herschel in the same orientation, you need a different type of H-to-2G to make the connection -- Oo1, then Ee1, then Oe3, then back to Eo3 again of course.

And if you mirror-reflect the Herschel input, you change the rating also -- Eo3 to Ee1, with the same rating rotation but in the opposite order.

If you run the classifier script on the gliders in question --

x = 20, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
18b2o$17b2o$b2o16bo$obo$2bo!

-- it will report "Eo3", because it assumes the first glider it encounters (reading top down and then left to right) will be the glider heading northwest in the reference collection. In this case the glider heading southwest is a little above the other one, so you have to use the second, alternate classification that the script reports.

----------------------------------------

I think that what all this means is that the GPAT desperately needs a more intuitive rating system. Either that, or possibly it would work to include a whole lot more pre-built configurations in the reference collection, including the reflecting Snarks. That would make it easier to pick out the right H-to-2G mechanism for a given pair of gliders.

-- Anyone have any clever ideas for a cleaner classification system, or are we stuck with this one?
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 4572
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby chris_c » January 3rd, 2018, 6:57 pm

calcyman wrote:Is there a faster H-to-2G in terms of recovery time? I would be mortified if the repeat time of this conduit could not be brought down to 62 ticks (or whatever the repeat time of the 2G-to-5c/9 is, if it's greater than 62).


Yes, we can do H->H+G at period 62 so it is possible:

x = 114, y = 94, rule = LifeHistory
56.2A$56.A.A$58.A4.2A$54.4A.2A2.A2.A$54.A2.A.A.A.A.2A$56.BABABA.A$57.
B2ABA.A$58.2B.BA$57.3B$48.2A6.4B$49.A6.B2A3B$49.A.AB3.B2A3B$50.2AB.
10B$52.13B$52.14B$40.2A6.A3.15B$39.B2AB4.A.A4.8B2.4B$39.3B5.BA2B3.6B
5.4B$40.B7.2B3.9B4.4B$34.9B.7B.4B4.2A5.4B4.2A$32.B.21B5.A7.4B.2B2AB$
31.2A21B7.3A5.8B9.2A$31.2A21B9.A6.7B.2B6.A$32.21B18.9B3.BA.A$32.23B
17.10B.B2A$34.13B6.2A18.11B$35.10B8.A15.B.13B$36.7B11.3A11.2AB.13B$
35.11B10.A11.2A16B$35.12B22.2B.14B2.2A.2A$35.12B25.14B3.A.A.A$36.11B
27.12B.B.A3.A$34.4B.8B2.2A23.8B2.2AB2A.3A3.A$34.2A4.7B.B2AB21.4B3.B4.
2A.A.A2.4A$35.A4.7B2.2B21.4B7.A4.B.ABA6.A$32.3A6.6B3.2B19.4B8.8A.A.B
5A$32.A8.7B.2BAB5.2A10.4B16.2BABA5.2A$41.9BA.A6.A9.4B8.5A.4A.A2.A.2A.
A.A$42.8B.A5.A10.4B8.A4.A.A2.A.2ABA.A.A2.A$42.6B4.3A2.5A5.4B5.2A2.2A
2.A3.A2.A3.A.A4.A.2A$41.6B7.A7.A4.4B5.A8.3A4.4AB2A2.2A2.A$41.7B11.3AB
2.7B.BA.A13.A.A.B.B2.A3.A$42.6B10.A.2B3.7B.B2A9.6A.A.5A.3A3.A$42.6B
10.4A12B10.A6.A.A2.B.A.A2.4A$42.6B8.2A2.BA3B2A7B10.A.A2.A3.A.BA.B.ABA
6.A$41.8B6.A2.3AB.2B2A7B11.2A2.2A2.A.A.4A.A.B5A$40.8B7.2A.A.B3.10B18.
2A.A4.2BABA5.2A$40.9B9.A8.8B20.A.4A.A2.A.2A.A2.A$40.9B9.2A7.9B19.A.A
2.A.2ABA.A.A2.2A$39.10B19.3B2.4B17.2A2.A2.A3.A.A$39.3B2A5B17.5B3.4B
18.2A4.4AB2A$33.2A3.4B2A5B17.2A7.4B10.2A5.A3.A.A.B.B2.A$34.A3.11B18.A
8.4B9.A7.4A.A.5A.A$34.A.A12B15.3A10.4B10.A9.A.A2.B.A.A$35.2A2.8B17.A
6.2A5.4B5.5A7.A3.A.BA.B.2A$40.7B4.2A19.A5.4B4.A12.2A2.A.A.3A2.A$41.6B
4.A20.A.AB.7B2.B3A12.2A.A5.A$41.6B.BA.A21.2AB.7B3.2B.A15.A.3A$40.7B.B
2A24.12B4A16.2A$41.8B26.7B2A3BAB2.2A$34.A6.7B27.7B2A2B.B3A2.A$34.3A4.
7B27.10B3.B.A.2A$25.A11.A2.7B4.B22.8B8.A$9.A15.3A8.2A3.6B.B.2BA20.9B
7.2A$7.3A18.A7.15BA.A18.4B2.3B$6.A20.2A3.B5.12B.BA18.4B3.5B$6.2A19.8B
2.13B20.4B7.2A$7.B21.21B19.4B8.A$7.3B19.20B19.4B10.3A$6.6B16.19B20.4B
13.A$2.B2.10B11.21B19.4B$.2C13B3.2B2.25B10.A6.4B$C2B2C4B2A15BC14B4.4B
7.3A5.4B$.4BC3B2A15BCBC4B.6B6.4B5.A7.4B$.2C2BC20B3C4B2.B.5B5.4B4.2A5.
4B$2.B3C22BC4B7.2A6.9B4.4B$4.28B8.A8.6B5.4B$7.13B.4B16.3A5.8B2.4B$7.
7B.B6.2B3.B15.A3.15B$22.3B.B2A18.14B$23.A3B2A18.13B$22.A.AB.B17.2AB.
10B$21.A.AB19.A.AB3.B2A3B$21.A22.A6.B2A3B$20.2A21.2A6.4B$52.3B$53.2B.
BA$52.B2ABA.A$51.BABABA.A$49.A2.A.A.A.A.2A$49.4A.2A2.A2.A$53.A4.2A$
51.A.A$51.2A!
chris_c
 
Posts: 802
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby dvgrn » January 3rd, 2018, 7:08 pm

chris_c wrote:Yes, we can do H->H+G at period 62 so it is possible...

Now I just want to see where you're getting those Herschels from.

If anyone has a good way of starting from any other kind of (singleton) signal with separation of 62+ ticks, and ending up with two Herschels with the same spacing, then please share. Among other things, it might make single-channel technology much more efficient.

I hadn't thought about storing 62-tick single channel recipes in a horrible huge Herschel loop, and getting signals out at the L156 corners. Now that I consider maintaining said Herschel loop, I can see why I didn't think about it.
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 4572
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby calcyman » January 3rd, 2018, 7:20 pm

dvgrn wrote:
chris_c wrote:Yes, we can do H->H+G at period 62 so it is possible...

Now I just want to see where you're getting those Herschels from.


You can duplicate Herschels at p62 using this H-to-H+G technology together with the old Quetzal mechanism of colliding gliders and (IIRC) a MWSS to yield a Herschel output.
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!
User avatar
calcyman
 
Posts: 1567
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 4:32 pm

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby dvgrn » January 3rd, 2018, 7:27 pm

calcyman wrote:
dvgrn wrote:
chris_c wrote:Yes, we can do H->H+G at period 62 so it is possible...

Now I just want to see where you're getting those Herschels from.


You can duplicate Herschels at p62 using this H-to-H+G technology together with the old Quetzal mechanism of colliding gliders and (IIRC) a MWSS to yield a Herschel output.

Well, but I said "a good way". Now we need to synchronize a couple of streams of gliders, and add a stream of MWSSes... so the revised version of the above is:

Now I just want to see where you're getting those glider and MWSS streams from. There's no known sane way to start with one (non-Herschel) stream containing p62+ separated signals, and end up with Herschels. Right? Basically we need a faster G->2G, and what we have right now is the syringe.

(Meanwhile, at the downstream end... those 5c/9 signals aren't exactly going anywhere yet. Any ideas on the best tool for finding an end to that wire that could actually let a signal out? Seems like p9 is still on the painful side of the current search frontier.)

(Or an elbow would be great, of course, but then we'd all jump for joy and forget all about this converter.)
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 4572
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby chris_c » January 3rd, 2018, 7:43 pm

dvgrn wrote:
chris_c wrote:Yes, we can do H->H+G at period 62 so it is possible...

Now I just want to see where you're getting those Herschels from.

If anyone has a good way of starting from any other kind of (singleton) signal with separation of 62+ ticks, and ending up with two Herschels with the same spacing, then please share. Among other things, it might make single-channel technology much more efficient.


Right... tricky question. If you consider this as a single entity:

x = 13, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
11bo$10bo$10b3o5$o$obo$2o!


Then I can convert it into a Herschel at period 63:

x = 45, y = 46, rule = B3/S23
35bobo$35b2o$36bo4$26bo$24b2o$25b2o5$29b2o$29b2o5b2o$20bo15b2o$19bo$
19b3o$34b2o$2o32b2o$bo38b2o$bobo36b2o$2b2o5bo$9bobo$9b2o3$9b2o$9b2o4$
22b2ob2o$13b2o6bobobobo$14bo6bobo2bo$11b3o6b2obo$11bo7bo3b2o$20bobo2bo
bo$19b2ob2o2b2o2$43b2o$43b2o3$36b2o$36b2o!


I haven't yet thought about how quickly I can convert from Herschel back again, but I bet it can be done in less than 90 ticks. Sadly the above converter has a dead zone from 80 ticks to around 120 ticks. Still moderately interesting though. The converter originally appeared here.
chris_c
 
Posts: 802
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

Re: Interacting with LoM

Postby A for awesome » January 4th, 2018, 6:45 pm

On a different note, a LoM-to-H' of questionable utility:
x = 29, y = 33, rule = LifeHistory
13.A$12.A.A$12.A.A$11.2A.3A$12.B4.A$11.2AB3A$11.2A.A6.2A$3.2D2B2.4B8.
A$2.DBD6B7.BA.A$.2D8B4.2A.B2A$2.2D6B4.B2A2B$3.D9B2.4B$2.17B$.17B$.19B
$21B$.10BC9B$2.9B2C9B$2.10B2C8B2.2A$2.11BC8B3.A$.21B.B.A.2A$.17B2.2AB
2A.A.A$2.9B5.B4.2A.A.A$2.9B8.A4.B.A$3.7B9.7A$5.2B$5.3B13.2A.2A$6.A2B.
2A9.2A.2A$5.A.A2B.A$4.A.AB2.A$4.A4.A$3.2A5.3A$12.A!

There's a nice, easy output but no clear input.
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all

Aidan F. Pierce
User avatar
A for awesome
 
Posts: 1616
Joined: September 13th, 2014, 5:36 pm
Location: 0x-1

Next

Return to Patterns

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: David and 8 guests