Universal helix working notes (Completed!)

[simsim314]

As I posted in several threads, we have now a general concept of helix with universal speed.

The idea consists of five major stages:

1. SL is converted into glider (many SLs + *WSS reactions are converted into clean glider).

2. Glider is converted into blinker puffer like this (it's helix, so this is done by sacrificing as much *WSS as we want):

Code: Select all

x = 51, y = 54, rule = B3/S23
5$43bobo$43b2o$44bo5$27bo$10bo17b2o$8bobo16b2o$9b2o$44bo$43bo$43b3o$
18b2o2b2o$19b2obobo$18bo3bo14$25b2o$26b2o$25bo6$42b3o$42bo2bo$42bo$42b
o3bo$42bo$43bobo!

3. From stage 2 we also need to leave two SLs and collide them into *WSS to ignite the fuse and kill the puffer using one of these recipes:

Code: Select all

x = 1072, y = 69, rule = B3/S23
37bo4b3o492bo4b3o492bo4b3o$36b3o3bo2bo490b3o3bo2bo490b3o3bo2bo$29b3o3b
2obo3bo486b3o3b2obo3bo486b3o3b2obo3bo$29bo2bo2b3o4bo3bo482bo2bo2b3o4bo
3bo482bo2bo2b3o4bo3bo$29bo5b3o4bo486bo5b3o4bo486bo5b3o4bo$29bo3bob3o5b
obo483bo3bob3o5bobo483bo3bob3o5bobo$29bo3bob2o492bo3bob2o492bo3bob2o$
29bo6b2o491bo6b2o491bo6b2o$30bobo8b3o486bobo8b3o486bobo8b3o$41bo2bo
496bo2bo496bo2bo$36bo4bo494bo4bo494bo4bo$36bo4bo3bo490bo4bo3bo490bo4bo
3bo$36bo4bo3bo490bo4bo3bo490bo4bo3bo$41bo499bo499bo$36bo5bobo491bo5bob
o491bo5bobo$36bo499bo499bo$36bo499bo499bo2$36bo499bo499bo$36bo499bo
499bo$36bo499bo499bo2$36bo499bo499bo$36bo499bo499bo$36bo499bo499bo2$
36bo499bo499bo$36bo499bo499bo$36bo499bo499bo2$36bo499bo499bo$36bo499bo
499bo$36bo499bo499bo2$36bo499bo499bo$o35bo35bo463bo499bo$b2o33bo33b2o
428bobo33bo33bobo428bo34bo34bo$2o69b2o428b2o67b2o430b2o65b2o$36bo464bo
34bo34bo429b2o33bo33b2o$36bo499bo499bo$36bo499bo499bo2$36bo499bo499bo$
36bo499bo499bo$36bo499bo499bo2$36bo499bo499bo$36bo499bo499bo$36bo499bo
499bo2$36bo499bo499bo$36bo499bo499bo$36bo499bo499bo2$36bo499bo499bo$
36bo499bo499bo$36bo499bo499bo2$36bo499bo499bo$36bo499bo499bo$36bo499bo
499bo2$36bo499bo499bo$36bo499bo499bo$36bo499bo499bo2$36bo499bo499bo$
36bo499bo499bo$36bo499bo499bo!

4. We need to clean the mess from stage (3) releasing single glider.

5. Colliding the glider back into SL from step 1.

----

So the real work which needs to be done is:

1. Converting glider into puffer, leaving two SLs for ignition.
2. Cleaning the mess and shooting single glider in correct direction.

This should allow very fast helices, but we also need some universal delay mechanism, to "fine tune" this design for any speed.

[codeholic]

Why synthesise blinker puffers by colliding spaceships from the helix with still-lifes? Why not just make blinker puffers part of the helix itself? (Like ping-pong.)

EDIT: I'm not sure I understood the concept. Why is it better than just making helix out of *WSS?

[HartmutHolzwart]

Dear codeholic,

instead of having a traditional helix to move some still life at a specific speed, this alternative concept is to advance the blinker puffer for several generations at speed c/2 and then destroy it from bleow by burning the blinker fuse. This gives a mean to advanxce at speeds arbittrarily close to c/2, where the tradional helix concept does not work any longer.

Also, this concept does not need a helix designed for a specific speed, but the speed can be steered by just starting to burn the blinker fuse some generations later or earlier. So it is very generic, once it works at all.

[simsim314]

I'm not sure I understood the concept. Why is it better than just making helix out of *WSS?

For once - the usual helix has speed limitation, this design is limited by c/2 only.
Other disadvantage - for each speed you need to search special helix, thus the complexity of the usual helix is growing as you get close to maximal helix speed, for this design the complexity is constant.

Why synthesise blinker puffers by colliding spaceships from the helix with still-lifes? Why not just make blinker puffers part of the helix itself?

Yes possible option - I wanted to have *WSS only design. On the other hand the only thing we need is c/2 synthesizable design that we can dry out for example. If so we can even have the puffer built in with some cleaner following it afterwards. While the triggered glider will destroy the cleaner and activate the fuse.

This will require the trigger to be two SLs in two sides, and the final stage will need to move the SLs upwards (the SLs could even move faster than c/2 - just the next activation will be limited by c/2).

[codeholic]

Okay, thanks, I think I got the idea. Maybe I'm missing something, but is there really a need to ignite the fuse with gliders? Why not use forward *WSS to do it directly?

EDIT: It's also not quite clear to me, if still-life phase is needed. Can't we adjust the speed just by delaying the moment when the fuse is ignited?

EDIT2: A downside of this method compared to plain *WSS helix I see is that it's probably going to make helices with much larger period factor (at least for speeds with small denominators).

[simsim314]

but is there really a need to ignite the fuse with gliders? Why not use forward *WSS to do it directly?

We need some trigger - like SL that converts to glider, that ignites the fuse that converts back to SL but after some distance. This is how we make the signal travel at any speed we want.

In the usual helix we got glider that was the signal - now we want replace the glider with something that moves with c/2, but gets destroyed after a while.

It's also not quite clear to me, if still-life phase is needed. Can't we adjust the speed just by delaying the moment when the fuse is ignited?

Think of it as design that comes from somewhere deeply bellow - and needs a trigger. SL is an option - you can remain in glider mode - but you cant keep it working from deep below, you need to send it forward and trigger the ignition there with some sort of mechanism, that present way above. SL just makes it very simple to adjust.

A downside of this design compared to plain *WSS helix I see is that it's probably going to make helices with much larger period factor.

Yes, but on the other hand it will work each time - and you won't need to adjust your design again and again for each speed. It's also not an option for many speeds anyway - the suggestion is to replace very complex and cumbersome mechanism like burning helix, by single general one - that can be simply adjusted to any need.

Constant complexity is always winning. Consider also that there is no real competition, helix design does not work for all possible speeds, this design is just increasing the period - but works for any valid speed.

[simsim314]

I think we can safely start from this (any simpler suggestion for cleaning rake?):

Code: Select all

x = 43, y = 127, rule = B3/S23
8bo4b3o$7b3o3bo2bo$3o3b2obo3bo$o2bo2b3o4bo3bo$o5b3o4bo$o3bob3o5bobo$o
3bob2o$o6b2o$bobo8b3o$12bo2bo$7bo4bo$7bo4bo3bo$7bo4bo3bo$12bo$7bo5bobo
$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo20bo4b3o$7bo19b3o2bo2bo$27b
ob2o4bo$7bo20b4o3bo$7bo20b2o5bo$7bo24bo2bo$33b2o$7bo26bo$7bo16b3o6bo$
7bo15bo2bo6bo6bo$26bo12b3o$7bo14bo3bo12bob2o$7bo14bo3bo13b3o$7bo18bo
13b3o$23bobo5bo8b3o$7bo22bobo7b2o$7bo23b4o$7bo24b3o$33bo$7bo$7bo$7bo2$
7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo22bo$7bo20b2o$29b2o$7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$
7bo18bo$7bo16b2o$25b2o$7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo14bo$7bo12b2o$
21b2o$7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo10bo$7bo8b2o$17b2o$7bo$7bo$7bo
2$7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo6bo$7bo4b2o$13b2o$7bo$7bo$7bo4$8bo$6bo2bo$6b2o2b
o$6bo2b2o$7bo$7b3o$8bo4$5bobobobo$6bo3bo2$11bo$10bobo!

Also an obvious delaying mechanism that can work for almost any delay just by adjusting the second *WSS:

Code: Select all

x = 41, y = 46, rule = B3/S23
7$23b2o$23bobo$23bo2$14b3o$14bo2bo$14bo$14bo3bo$14bo$15bobo16$11bo$10b
3o$10bob2o$11b3o$11b3o$11b2o!

Now we "only" need to destroy the rake, ignite, clean and convert back to SL/glider.

[codeholic]

We need some trigger - like SL that converts to glider, that ignites the fuse that converts back to SL but after some distance.

But a still-life will not just simply convert to a glider, you need to wreck a couple of spaceships into it. So why not just ignite the end of a fuse with a couple of spaceships directly?

[codeholic]

I think we can safely start from this (any simpler suggestion for cleaning rake?):

Huh? Why do we need this? Isn't the fuse supposed to be burnt?

[codeholic]

3. From stage 2 we also need to leave two SLs and collide them into *WSS to ignite the fuse and kill the puffer using one of these recipes:

Did you perform this search with gencols? I think there might be some results missing, those where the bait spaceship has common neighbor cell(s) with the puffer or the blinker trail.

[simsim314]

Huh? Why do we need this? Isn't the fuse supposed to be burnt?

It supposed to be burnt - by trigger that comes from "way above" the construction. This is the definition of helix. It will eventually be burnt - when triggered. Before that - it should travel with c/2, very considerable distance.

Or maybe you missed my previous post? We can have not only *WSS - lets just start from something that can be "dried" i.e. anything relatively simply constructible with gliders.

Destroyed by single glider.

Code: Select all

x = 43, y = 127, rule = B3/S23
8bo4b3o$7b3o3bo2bo$3o3b2obo3bo$o2bo2b3o4bo3bo$o5b3o4bo$o3bob3o5bobo$o
3bob2o$o6b2o$bobo8b3o$12bo2bo$7bo4bo$7bo4bo3bo22bo$7bo4bo3bo22bobo$12b
o26b2o$7bo5bobo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo20bo4b3o$7bo
19b3o2bo2bo$27bob2o4bo$7bo20b4o3bo$7bo20b2o5bo$7bo24bo2bo$33b2o$7bo26b
o$7bo16b3o6bo$7bo15bo2bo6bo6bo$26bo12b3o$7bo14bo3bo12bob2o$7bo14bo3bo
13b3o$7bo18bo13b3o$23bobo5bo8b3o$7bo22bobo7b2o$7bo23b4o$7bo24b3o$33bo$
7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo22bo$7bo20b2o$29b2o$7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$
7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo18bo$7bo16b2o$25b2o$7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo
14bo$7bo12b2o$21b2o$7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo10bo$7bo8b2o$17b
2o$7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo$7bo2$7bo$7bo6bo$7bo4b2o$13b2o$7bo$7bo$7bo4$8bo
$6bo2bo$6b2o2bo$6bo2b2o$7bo$7b3o$8bo4$5bobobobo$6bo3bo2$11bo$10bobo!

Let's focus on cleaning the mess.

Did you perform this search with gencols? I think there might be some results missing, those where the bait spaceship has common neighbor cell(s) with the puffer or the blinker trail.

If you're referring to the three options posted in the first post, I used custom python script and golly. There is not too many options there, the space is very limited. You're welcome to double check of course.

[codeholic]

There is another 2c/3 blinker fuse:

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 127, rule = B3/S23
15bo$8b3o3b3o$2bo4bo2bo2b2obo$b3o6bo2b3o$2obo2bo3bo2b3o$3o7bo3b2o$3o$
3o$b2o4b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o
4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b
3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o2$7bobo$6bo2bo$6bo2bo$6bobo3$5bo$5bobo
$5bobo!

EDIT: Is there something wrong with burning the fuse with a heavyweight spaceship? Why do we need another rake?

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 44, rule = B3/S23
15bo$8b3o3b3o$2bo4bo2bo2b2obo$b3o6bo2b3o$2obo2bo3bo2b3o$3o7bo3b2o$3o$
3o$b2o4b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o4$7b3o$13b3o$12bo2bo$15b
o$7b3obo3bo$11bo3bo$15bo$12bobo!

[muzik]

The normal blinkerfuse can be set off with just one glider but it's a bit messy

Code: Select all

x = 114, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
7b3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3ob3o
b3ob3ob3ob3o5$b2o$obo$2bo!

[simsim314]

There is another 2c/3 blinker fuse:

Can it destroy the puffer?

Is there something wrong with burning the fuse with a heavyweight spaceship? Why do we need another rake?

Woops... now I'm just embarrassed.

Maybe there is a way to ignite the fuse directly as muzik points out - but when there is a HWSS there?

Anyway cleaning time:

Code: Select all

x = 36, y = 176, rule = B3/S23
15bo4b3o$14b3o2bo2bo$7b3o4bob2o4bo$6bo2bo5b4o3bo$9bo5b3o4bo$5bo3bo4bob
o2bobo$5bo3bo4b2o$9bo$6bobo10b3o$14bo3bo2bo$14bo6bo$14bo2bo3bo$17bo3bo
$14bo6bo$14bo3bobo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14b
o2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14b
o$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo$23b3o$14bo7bo2bo$14bo10bo$
14bo6bo3bo$21bo3bo$14bo10bo$14bo7bobo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$
14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$
14bo$14bo$14bo18b3o$32bo2bo$14bo20bo$14bo20bo$14bo17bobo2$14bo$14bo$
14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$
14bo$14bo$14bo2$b3o10bo$o2bo10bo$3bo10bo$3bo$obo11bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$
14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$
14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$14bo$14bo$14bo2$
14bo$13bobo$12b2ob2o$13bobo$12b2ob2o$11bo5bo$12bo3bo2$12b2ob2o$11bo5bo
$12b2ob2o!

[biggiemac]

I'm a little confused. I understand so far as that this method will give orthogonal helices whose front end advances N cells in 2N + K generations for some fixed K, and so by making N large we get high period almost-c/2 helices. But they are helices in the destructive sense, where every iteration destroys one period worth of *WSS.

Now with such high periods it seems impractical to support a climbing reaction in this way, because active reactions are impatient. The only patient (flexible period) caterpillar family is the caterloopillar. With the caterloopillar though, a destructive helix would only solve the endpoint of the advancing half. I presume making the endpoint of the receding half recede at speeds up to c/2 is fairly trivial.

But that leaves out the entire construction tape middle. The helix on the caterloopillar nondestructively advances an entire construction tape at the speed of the ship. The tape spends some of its life as stills and some of its time as gliders. Unless I'm mistaken, that is the c/4 limit.

Is this blinker puffer method supposed to be the source for every construction glider? If so, doesn't the conversion from SL to blinker puffer back to SL have to be done entirely by fly-by reactions that don't harm the *WSS? And if not, doesn't such a universal helix recipe only buy us ridiculously high period helices for orthogonal climbers we don't yet know to exist?

Edit: Rereading the current thread, I understand better that SL -> blinker puffer -> SL really is meant to be the source for every construction glider. Once you have made 1 glider you can duplicate it until it makes a blinker puffer and a construction glider, all still using c/4 limited technology. And then it stays as a c/2 for as long as needed to achieve high speed. So I guess my point of confusion is more with the parenthetical remark in this statement:

2. Glider is converted into blinker puffer like this (it's helix, so this is done by sacrificing as much *WSS as we want):

Is this "sacrifice" destructive or nondestructive?

[simsim314]

Here we go - signal traveling faster than c/2, glider in -> glider out:

Code: Select all

x = 50, y = 210, rule = B3/S23
16bo4b3o$15b3o2bo2bo$8b3o4bob2o4bo$7bo2bo5b4o3bo$10bo5b3o4bo$6bo3bo4bo
bo2bobo$6bo3bo4b2o$10bo$7bobo10b3o$15bo3bo2bo$15bo6bo$15bo2bo3bo$18bo
3bo$15bo6bo$15bo3bobo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$
15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$
15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo$24b3o$15bo7bo2bo$15bo
10bo$15bo6bo3bo$22bo3bo$15bo10bo$15bo7bobo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$
15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$
15bo2$15bo$15bo32bo$15bo18b3o10bo$33bo2bo10b3o$15bo20bo$15bo20bo$15bo
17bobo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo
2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$2b3o10bo$bo2bo10bo$4bo10bo$4bo$bobo
11bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$
15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo$15bo2$15bo$15bo5b
o$15bo4b3o$20bob2o$15bo5b3o$15bobo3b3o$15bobo3b3o$21b2o40$2b3o$bo2bo$
4bo$o3bo$4bo$bobo!

[simsim314]

Is this blinker puffer method supposed to be the source for every construction glider?

Any orthogonal c/2 design I can think of - is requiring high speed helix. Doesn't matter how we implement the "core", even if we have a reading head with some other mechanism - we still need a helix just for the self destruct. There is simply no way around helices for such speeds. And yes we're talking destructive now, helix is destructive by definition.

doesn't such a universal helix recipe only buy us ridiculously high period helices for orthogonal climbers we don't yet know to exist?

They're actually relatively low period. And notice - they supposed to work for EVERY period above some threshold. Because every helix unit is actually moving the SL faster than c/2. Signal traveling so fast - is not heard of.

[muzik]

The fuse can very cleanly be made with a block:

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 36, rule = LifeHistory
A$A$A2$A$A$A2$A$A$A2$A$A$A2$A$A$A2$A$A$A$7.A$A6.A.A$A6.2A$A8$2A$2A!

except this probably isn't very useful since you already discovered a reaction in a previous post

[simsim314]

Finished a prototype:

Code: Select all

x = 68, y = 1150, rule = B3/S23
31bo4b3o17b3o$30b3o3bo2bo$23b3o3b2obo3bo$23bo2bo2b3o4bo3bo$23bo5b3o4bo
$23bo3bob3o5bobo$23bo3bob2o$23bo6b2o$24bobo8b3o$35bo2bo$30bo4bo$30bo4b
o3bo$30bo4bo3bo$35bo$30bo5bobo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$
30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$
30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo8b3o$39b
o2bo$30bo8bo$30bo8bo3bo$30bo8bo3bo$39bo$30bo9bobo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo
$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo
2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo18b3o$30bo18bo2bo$49bo$30bo18bo$30bo19bobo$
30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$
30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$3o27bo$o2bo26bo$o16b3o$o3bo12bo2bo9bo$o16bo12bo$b
obo13bo12bo$18bobo$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30b
o$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo
$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo
2$30bo$30bo$30bo$63b3o$30bo32bo2bo$30bo32bo$30bo32bo3bo$63bo$30bo33bob
o$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo
$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo
2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo
$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$
30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo$52b3o$30bo20bo2bo
$30bo23bo$30bo19bo3bo$54bo$30bo20bobo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$
30bo15b3o$30bo14bo2bo$48bo$30bo13bo3bo$30bo17bo$30bo14bobo2$30bo$30bo$
30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo5bo$30bo4b3o
$30bo3b2obo$34b3o$30bo3b3o$30bo3b3o$35b2o40$17b3o$17bo2bo$17bo$17bo3bo
$17bo$18bobo45$31bo4b3o$30b3o3bo2bo$23b3o3b2obo3bo$23bo2bo2b3o4bo3bo$
23bo5b3o4bo$23bo3bob3o5bobo$23bo3bob2o$23bo6b2o$24bobo8b3o$35bo2bo$30b
o4bo$30bo4bo3bo$30bo4bo3bo$35bo$30bo5bobo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$
30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$
30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$
30bo8b3o$39bo2bo$30bo8bo$30bo8bo3bo$30bo8bo3bo$39bo$30bo9bobo$30bo$30b
o2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30b
o$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo18b3o$30bo18bo2bo$49bo$30bo18bo$
30bo19bobo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$
30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$3o27bo$o2bo26bo$o16b3o$o3bo12bo2bo9bo$
o16bo12bo$bobo13bo12bo$18bobo$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30b
o$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo
2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo
$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo$63b3o$30bo32bo2bo$30bo32bo$30bo32bo3bo$63bo
$30bo33bobo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo
2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo
$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$
30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$
30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo$52b3o$
30bo20bo2bo$30bo23bo$30bo19bo3bo$54bo$30bo20bobo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$
30bo2$30bo$30bo15b3o$30bo14bo2bo$48bo$30bo13bo3bo$30bo17bo$30bo14bobo
2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo
5bo$30bo4b3o$30bo3b2obo$34b3o$30bo3b3o$30bo3b3o$35b2o40$17b3o$17bo2bo$
17bo$17bo3bo$17bo$18bobo45$31bo4b3o$30b3o3bo2bo$23b3o3b2obo3bo$23bo2bo
2b3o4bo3bo$23bo5b3o4bo$23bo3bob3o5bobo$23bo3bob2o$23bo6b2o$24bobo8b3o$
35bo2bo$30bo4bo$30bo4bo3bo$30bo4bo3bo$35bo$30bo5bobo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$
30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$
30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$
30bo$30bo$30bo8b3o$39bo2bo$30bo8bo$30bo8bo3bo$30bo8bo3bo$39bo$30bo9bob
o$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo
$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo18b3o$30bo18bo2bo$49bo
$30bo18bo$30bo19bobo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$
30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$3o27bo$o2bo26bo$o16b3o$o3bo
12bo2bo9bo$o16bo12bo$bobo13bo12bo$18bobo$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30b
o2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30b
o$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo
$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo$63b3o$30bo32bo2bo$30bo32bo$30bo
32bo3bo$63bo$30bo33bobo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30b
o$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo
$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo
2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo
$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$
30bo$52b3o$30bo20bo2bo$30bo23bo$30bo19bo3bo$54bo$30bo20bobo$30bo$30bo
2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo15b3o$30bo14bo2bo$48bo$30bo13bo3bo$30bo17bo
$30bo14bobo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo$30bo2$30bo$30bo
$30bo2$30bo5bo$30bo4b3o$30bo3b2obo$34b3o$30bo3b3o$30bo3b3o$35b2o40$17b
3o$17bo2bo$17bo$17bo3bo$17bo$18bobo!

[biggiemac]

Because every helix unit is actually moving the SL faster than c/2. Signal traveling so fast - is not heard of.

Well that only depends what part of the puffer you define the SL to be living in - if the SL is what is converted to the blinker puffer in the first place then I think it's misleading to claim it moves at the fuse velocity. It's more realistic to say it moves at the speed of the front end of the puffer. But yes, it's final position is encoded via clever use of a 2c/3 fuse.

I guess I'm still not satisfied with my understanding here. If I wanted to build a caterloopillar design at some c/2 minus epsilon speed, I need every permanent signal in the ship to move with that average speed. The permanent signals are the front, the end, and the instruction tape of loaves. So all three need to be convertible to something sufficiently fast.

I guess the negative direction isn't as difficult because it can be achieved with an opposing *WSS and there's no speed issue interacting with it with the negative helix.

As for the positive direction, to advance SLs they all need to spend some life as c/2 puffers, and any c/2 puffer needs a 2c/3 signal to shut it down in time. And with the exception of the front, the *WSSs used for converting back and forth cannot be destroyed.

So what we need is a large tape reader made of *WSS that:
approaches a SL constellation, converts it to gliders
duplicates and stalls the gliders many times using c/2 nondestructive reactions
throws all those gliders together to synthesize a blinker puffer 1 and another frozen seed
-time passes-
another flyby ignites the frozen seed, beginning a 2c/3 fuse
the fuse runs down the blinker puffer and throws out gliders
some of these gliders are frozen to the original SL constellation, behind the reader
one glider is sent toward a central line of slow salvo constructions
all other ash is cleaned up (again nondestructively)
the next reader follows on the lane appropriate for the frozen constellation

This reader travels in the forward direction, a different mechanism travels in the other direction based on simpler *WSS intermediaries, and they construct each other as in the extant caterloopillars. At the front, a destructive version of the blinker puffer thing cleans everything up.

The above end goal makes sense to me. But everything shown so far is the "destructive version." Particularly, cleaning up the ash destructively is the easier part, and more effort should be put into a design of the reader that allows a chain of them, each using the blinker puffer method, to read and advance a tape repeatedly. To me, this seems like a tool needed to do any practical construction using a near c/2 helix. Is this the same as what others are seeing here or is it an over-ambitious or off-topic goal?

Also re: prototype, looks good! For the destructive version, at least.

[simsim314]

@biggiemac you're missing the "big picture" here by actually trying and see it.

What I'm trying to do in this thread - is only to build a helix (destructive one), this was the goal. Why? because any orthogonal extreme speed design will need one. Even if we do everything else as you said, how do you suggest to destroy the reading heads in the front? Only helix! And until now we had to design each helix by hand, and its speed was limited.

You can say helix design is too simple task - yet it's an important one. More than that - I have some ideas how to avoid the design you've mentioned - and my alternative design also needs helix. No matter what design we chose - we must have general way to generate very high speed helices, which are not hand crafted.

[biggiemac]

Thanks for the context! I think I was trying to look too far ahead; it is genuinely impressive that a single design can make a high period helix with any desired velocity up to c/2. I just didn't know what would be the use for such a thing except for caterloopillars, and then in that context there were much bigger challenges that came to my mind.

I'm excited to see your ideas on making caterloopillars above c/4!

[codeholic]

Finished a prototype:

I don't see how this design can beat *WSS helices. Vast part of the time the signal spends in the form of a still life, and the longer the fuse, the longer that time is and the greater offset between coils is, that spaceships have to travel.

[simsim314]

Trivial Improvement on 1 *WSS -

Code: Select all

x = 57, y = 1199, rule = B3/S23
10b2o$9bo2bo$9bobo$10bo6$35bo4b3o$34b3o3bo2bo$27b3o3b2obo3bo$27bo2bo2b
3o4bo3bo$27bo5b3o4bo$27bo3bob3o5bobo$27bo3bob2o$27bo6b2o$28bobo8b3o$
39bo2bo$34bo4bo$34bo4bo3bo$34bo4bo3bo$39bo$34bo5bobo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$
34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$
34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$
34bo$34bo$34bo8b3o$43bo2bo$34bo8bo$34bo8bo3bo$34bo8bo3bo$43bo$34bo9bob
o$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo
$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo18b3o$34bo18bo2bo$53bo
$34bo18bo$34bo19bobo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$
34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo$21b3o$21bo2bo9bo$
21bo12bo$21bo12bo$22bobo$bo32bo$3o31bo$ob2o30bo$b3o$b3o30bo$b2o31bo$
34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$
34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$
34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$
34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$
34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$
34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$
34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$8bo25bo$7b3o24bo$6b2obo24bo$6b3o$7b2o25bo$34bo$
34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$
34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$17b3o
14bo$17bo2bo13bo$17bo16bo$17bo3bo$17bo16bo$18bobo13bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$
34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$28bo5bo$27b3o4bo$27bob2o3bo$28b
3o$28b3o3bo$28b3o3bo$28b2o40$45b3o$44bo2bo$47bo$43bo3bo$47bo$44bobo65$
35bo4b3o$34b3o3bo2bo$27b3o3b2obo3bo$27bo2bo2b3o4bo3bo$27bo5b3o4bo$27bo
3bob3o5bobo$27bo3bob2o$27bo6b2o$28bobo8b3o$39bo2bo$34bo4bo$34bo4bo3bo$
34bo4bo3bo$39bo$34bo5bobo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$
34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$
34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo8b3o$43bo2bo$
34bo8bo$34bo8bo3bo$34bo8bo3bo$43bo$34bo9bobo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo
2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo
$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo18b3o$34bo18bo2bo$53bo$34bo18bo$34bo19bobo$34bo2$
34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$
34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo$21b3o$21bo2bo9bo$21bo12bo$21bo12bo$22bobo$bo
32bo$3o31bo$ob2o30bo$b3o$b3o30bo$b2o31bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$
34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$
34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$
34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$
34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$
34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$
34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$8bo25b
o$7b3o24bo$6b2obo24bo$6b3o$7b2o25bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$
34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$
34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$17b3o14bo$17bo2bo13bo$17bo16bo$
17bo3bo$17bo16bo$18bobo13bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo
$34bo$34bo2$28bo5bo$27b3o4bo$27bob2o3bo$28b3o$28b3o3bo$28b3o3bo$28b2o
40$45b3o$44bo2bo$47bo$43bo3bo$47bo$44bobo65$35bo4b3o$34b3o3bo2bo$27b3o
3b2obo3bo$27bo2bo2b3o4bo3bo$27bo5b3o4bo$27bo3bob3o5bobo$27bo3bob2o$27b
o6b2o$28bobo8b3o$39bo2bo$34bo4bo$34bo4bo3bo$34bo4bo3bo$39bo$34bo5bobo$
34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$
34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$
34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo8b3o$43bo2bo$34bo8bo$34bo8bo3bo$34bo8bo
3bo$43bo$34bo9bobo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34b
o$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo18b3o
$34bo18bo2bo$53bo$34bo18bo$34bo19bobo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$
34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo$
21b3o$21bo2bo9bo$21bo12bo$21bo12bo$22bobo$bo32bo$3o31bo$ob2o30bo$b3o$b
3o30bo$b2o31bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$
34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$
34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$
34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$
34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$
34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$
34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$8bo25bo$7b3o24bo$6b2obo24bo$6b3o
$7b2o25bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$
34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$
34bo$34bo2$17b3o14bo$17bo2bo13bo$17bo16bo$17bo3bo$17bo16bo$18bobo13bo$
34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$34bo$34bo$34bo2$28bo5bo$27b3o4bo
$27bob2o3bo$28b3o$28b3o3bo$28b3o3bo$28b2o40$45b3o$44bo2bo$47bo$43bo3bo
$47bo$44bobo!

I just didn't know what would be the use for such a thing except for caterloopillars, and then in that context there were much bigger challenges that came to my mind.

Yes the challenges are bigger - but also less clear. This challenge was clear.

I don't see how this design can beat *WSS helices. Vast part of the time the signal spends in the form of a still life, and the longer the fuse, the longer that time is and the greater offset between coils is, that spaceships have to travel.

You're missing one crucial detail: this is SL that travels faster than c/2. The longer the coil, the bigger the difference between c/2 and SL travel speed, and the smaller the influence of the gap between two "helix heads".

If for example we will have a speed of 0.499c will this convince you enough?

[codeholic]

If for example we will have a speed of 0.499c will this convince you enough?

Yes, that would convince me. But I think the speed limit you can achieve with this method is lower, namely 2c/5.