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The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

dvgrn wrote:If you have more specific requirements for recovery time, available space, or reconstruction options, just post them and I can probably dig up something to match.

I was considering injecting a Herschel into the six blocks of a B60P120 gun to start it.
I looked at the two glider b-hep collisions to no avail.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..."
-- Isaac Asimov

triller

Posts: 110
Joined: September 3rd, 2009, 2:41 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

triller wrote:I was considering injecting a Herschel into the six blocks of a B60P120 gun to start it.
I looked at the two glider b-hep collisions to no avail.

I found a block + beehive constellation that does the trick. I posted it as part of a pattern in the Demonoid thread a little while ago:

x = 33, y = 17, rule = B3/S2327bo$27bobo$27b2o$2o5b2o$2o5b2o2$4b2o$4b2o4$27b2o$27b2o2$20b2o9b2o$15b2o2bo2bo8b2o$15b2o3b2o! chris_c Posts: 819 Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits chris_c wrote:I found a block + beehive constellation that does the trick. I posted it as part of a pattern in the Demonoid thread a little while ago Thanks. I missed it there. I'm watching your latest Demonoid now. (Actually the Demonoid gun. Dare I, Diamondoid?) triller The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..." -- Isaac Asimov triller Posts: 110 Joined: September 3rd, 2009, 2:41 pm Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits Reading up on this thread and the Hunting thread, it seems that the primary criterion when picking canonical forms for the conduit collection seems to be a) obtrusiveness, then b) bounding box. Which leads to the question: what is less obtrusive, an eater tail or a snake? One can be replaced with another, but eater tails are used in almost all conduits where this rock is called for (except for BFx59H). There are certain situations where snakes are less obtrusive and work where eaters don't: x = 84, y = 49, rule = LifeHistory7$9.2A$10.A$10.A.AB$11.2AB$13.3B$13.4B20.A$14.4B.B17.3A$15.7B8.A9.A$16.6B6.3A2.A5.2A$16.2B3E2B4.A5.3A3.4B$16.2BE4B4.2A7.A4.2B$16.B3E4B.4B6.2A.10B$16.11B8.14B.BA$16.12B9.13BA.A$16.12B7.15B.2A$17.11B6.14B$20.7B3.3B.13B$19.9B.18B6.7B.B$15.34B4.13B.B$13.38BD21B$12.24B3D13BD21BD$12.26BD13B2D18B3DB$12.24B3D12B2D2B2A15BDBD$10.2AB.37BD3B2A15BD$9.A.AB3.31B4.11B3.2B2.2B$9.A5.31B5.10B$8.2A6.14B.13B8.6B$17.12B5.9B10.3B$17.4B.4B2AB5.2B.4B12.B$18.2B3.3B2A5.7B12.2A$17.B2AB2.2B.B6.A.2A15.A$18.2A6.2C3.3A.A17.A$27.C2.A4.A.A14.2A$26.AD.DA.3A.2A$26.2A2D.A2.A$32.A.A$33.A!

Yet eaters are considerably more common than snakes, and also spartan. What would be the advice here?
"What's purple and commutes?
The Evanston Express."
thunk

Posts: 165
Joined: October 3rd, 2015, 8:50 pm
Location: Central USA

Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

thunk wrote:It seems that the primary criterion when picking canonical forms for the conduit collection seems to be a) obtrusiveness, then b) bounding box.

I believe we can say c) would then be population, which should resolve the issue.
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

thunk wrote:Reading up on this thread and the Hunting thread, it seems that the primary criterion when picking canonical forms for the conduit collection seems to be a) obtrusiveness, then b) bounding box.

BlinkerSpawn wrote:I believe we can say c) would then be population, which should resolve the issue.

Usually, we consider glider-constructability before any of those other criteria. In general, fish-hook eaters are easier to construct than snakes or aircraft carriers, and this is probably the primary reason that the eater was used in HL75P.
-Matthias Merzenich
Sokwe
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

thunk wrote:Which leads to the question: what is less obtrusive, an eater tail or a snake? One can be replaced with another, but eater tails are used in almost all conduits where this rock is called for (except for BFx59H).
Sometimes I find that eater heads are often the best option. They are less obtrusive to any parallel conduits, and they tend to be easier to work with while searching for conduits, as they have the advantage of being able to work as eaters as well, if the reaction returns to that location. I don't know if that was relevant to your question, but that's my take.
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all

Aidan F. Pierce

A for awesome

Posts: 1616
Joined: September 13th, 2014, 5:36 pm
Location: 0x-1

Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

A for awesome wrote:
thunk wrote:Which leads to the question: what is less obtrusive, an eater tail or a snake? One can be replaced with another, but eater tails are used in almost all conduits where this rock is called for (except for BFx59H).
Sometimes I find that eater heads are often the best option. They are less obtrusive to any parallel conduits, and they tend to be easier to work with while searching for conduits, as they have the advantage of being able to work as eaters as well, if the reaction returns to that location. I don't know if that was relevant to your question, but that's my take.

The traditional rule is to minimize the bounding box (of the whole conduit, not the specific catalyst) and then the population. That means that snakes or aircraft carriers are generally used instead of eaters, as long as the conduits aren't intended for self-constructing circuitry. In that case you substitute an eater -- but you can choose either end of the eater, and it usually doesn't matter which end you use. A good compiler would try both versions and build whichever one was cheaper... but we don't have a good Spartan compiler yet.

For non-Spartan "canonical" forms it's probably a really good idea to use a snake, just because that makes it clear that the catalyst is a rock. A snake is instantly recognizable as a candidate for various substitutions, if the other end of the snake gets in the way of something. If an eater is shown in the canonical form, it kind of implies that there really has to be an eater there for the reaction to work.

dvgrn
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

The eater 2 in the CBx37C can be replaced by an eater 1:
x = 41, y = 20, rule = LifeHistory11.2A.2A19.2A.2A$10.B.A.2A18.B.A.2A$8.3B.A19.3B.A$2.3D3.3B2A13.3D3.3B2A$2.D9B14.D9B$2.2DBD5B15.2DBD5B$4B2D4B14.4B2D4B$11B13.11B$11B13.11B$.11B13.11B$3.4B3C2B15.4B3C2B$2.7BC3B13.7BC3B$2.4BCB2C3B13.4BCB2C3B$3.3B2C3B.B2A.A10.3B2C3B.B2A$4.7B.B2AB3A9.7B.BA.A$4.6B4.B4.A8.6B5.A$5.5B3.2A.3A10.5B5.2A$5.4B5.A.A12.4B$14.A.A$15.A! x₁=ηx V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη) K=(Λu²)/2 Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt) $$x_1=\eta x$$ $$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$ $$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$ $$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$ http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all Aidan F. Pierce A for awesome Posts: 1616 Joined: September 13th, 2014, 5:36 pm Location: 0x-1 Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits Here are the results of the first three catalysts of Kazyan's G10 (from that upgraded Fx77). (I added the eater2 in the second pattern manually merely to delete a blinker. There may be a smaller replacement, or even a replacement for the second glider!) x = 108, y = 31, rule = B3/S2312b2o62bo$12b2o62b3o$2o77bo$o77b2o12bo$b3o82bo4bobo$3bo81bobo3bobo$73b2o11bo3b2ob3o$6b2o3bo61b2o21bo$6b2o2b2o78b2ob3o$10bobo77b2obo$14bo$75b2o3bo$13bo2bo58b2o2b2o$79bobo$15bo2bo7b3o41b2o11bo$26bo43b2o$17bo2bo6bo2bo51bo2bo2$11b2o6bo2bo6bo2bo51bo2bo7b3o$11b2o82bo$21bo9bo2bo51bo2bo6bo2bo2$33bo2bo51bo2bo6bo2bo2$35bo2bo51bo9bo2bo2$37bo64bo2bo2$104bo2bo2$106bo! Edit: The second one leads to an hive-making conduit with one degree of freedom. Best wishes to you, Scorbie Scorbie Posts: 1349 Joined: December 7th, 2013, 1:05 am Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits Periodic HL122H: x = 27, y = 23, rule = B3/S2312bo$10b3o$9bo$9b2o2$14b2o$14b2o$24b2o$24bobo$21b2obobo$21bobobo$b2o20bo$b2o10b3o7b2o$14bo8b3o$12b3o8b3o$23b3o$23b3o$23b2o$3bob2o16bo$b3obo15bobobo$o6bo13b2obobo$2o4b2o16bobo$24b2o!

Currently using Bellman to try to delete the 3/4 traffic light in a stable way, but in the meantime, this form allows for tight p244 and p488 guns:

x = 149, y = 58, rule = B3/S2310b2o10b2o77b2o10b2o$9bo2bo8bo2bo75bo2bo8bo2bo$9b3o2b6o2b3o18bo56b3o2b6o2b3o18bo$12b2o6b2o19b3o59b2o6b2o19b3o$11bo10bo17bo61bo10bo17bo$11b2obo4bob2o17b2o60b2obo4bob2o17b2o$16b2o89b2o$45b2o89b2o$45b2o89b2o$55b2o89b2o$55bobo88bobo$7b2o43b2obobo40b2o43b2obobo$7b2o43bobobo41b2o43bobobo$32b2o20bo68b2o20bo$2b2o28b2o19bo2bo36b2o28b2o19bo2bo$3bo49bo40bo49bo$3bobo47bo3bo36bobo47bo3bo$4b2o47bo3bo37b2o47bo3bo$53bo90bo$22b2o29bo2bo56b2o29bo2bo$20bo2bo10bob2o6b3o7bo56bo2bo10bob2o6b3o7bo$20b2o10b3obo7bo2bo4bobobo54b2o10b3obo7bo2bo4bobobo$9b3o19bo6bo4bo3bo4b2obobo64bo6bo4bo3bo4b2obobo$20b2o9b2o4b2o4bobob2o6bobo53b2o9b2o4b2o4bobob2o6bobo$13b3o5bo22b2ob2o6b2o47b2o6bo22b2ob2o6b2o$13b3o5bobo21b3o56b2o6bobo21b3o$10b3o9b2o89b2o$10bobob2o$10bobob2o$42b2obobo85b2obobo$42b2obobo85b2obobo$34b2o9b3o77b2o9b3o$10b3o21bobo5b3o80bobo5b3o$b2o6b2ob2o22bo5b3o47b2o33bo5b3o$obo6b2obobo4b2o4b2o9b2o53bobo16b2o4b2o9b2o$obob2o4bo3bo4bo6bo19b3o42bobob2o13bo6bo19b3o$bobobo4bo2bo7bob3o10b2o54bobobo15bob3o10b2o$3bo7b3o6b2obo10bo2bo56bo16b2obo10bo2bo$bo2bo29b2o56bo2bo29b2o$4bo90bo$o3bo86bo3bo$o3bo86bo3bo$4bo90bo$bo2bo19b2o66bo2bo19b2o$3bo20b2o31bo36bo20b2o31bo$bobobo43b2o4bobo34bobobo43b2o4bobo$obob2o43b2o5b2o33bobob2o43b2o5b2o$obo88bobo$b2o89b2o$11b2o89b2o$11b2o89b2o$40b2o89b2o$16b2o17b2obo4bob2o60b2o17b2obo4bob2o$17bo17bo10bo61bo17bo10bo$14b3o19b2o6b2o59b3o19b2o6b2o$14bo18b3o2b6o2b3o56bo18b3o2b6o2b3o$33bo2bo8bo2bo75bo2bo8bo2bo$34b2o10b2o77b2o10b2o! EDIT: Here's something delightfully weird and spartan. I haven't found a good way to cleanly extract one of the B outputs, but I'm sure there's something that doesn't require resorting to Bellman: x = 34, y = 35, rule = B3/S23$10b2o$10bobo7bo$12bo5b3o$12b2o3bo$17b2o4$30b2o$9bo20b2o$10bo$10b2o14bo$9b2o14bobo$9bo14bo2bo$25b2o16$20bo$19bobo$19b2o!
Tanner Jacobi

Kazyan

Posts: 747
Joined: February 6th, 2014, 11:02 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Don't worry, I haven't disappeared. The next conduit update will probably be next weekend, since enough new stuff has been posted to merit an update (and I have a lot of schoolwork this week, for some reason.)
"What's purple and commutes?
The Evanston Express."
thunk

Posts: 165
Joined: October 3rd, 2015, 8:50 pm
Location: Central USA

Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

P30BR:

x = 29, y = 20, rule = LifeHistoryA$3A$3.A$2.2A$2.5B2.B$4.3B.2B2A$2.8B2A$2.13B$2.4BA9B5.2B$2.3BABA9B2.5B$3.BA2BA18B$4.B2A20B$5.7B3C11B2A$3.4B.4BCBC8B.BA.BA$3.2A2.5BCBC8B3.2A$4.A2.15B$.3A4.13B$.A8.3BD6B$11.3D.2B$12.D! This looks ripe to be converted into a factory or spartan snark/syringe, but a quick 2-spartan-object CatForce search doesn't give me a solution. EDIT: A spartan H-to-R: x = 35, y = 26, rule = LifeHistory30.2A$30.A$18.3B6.BA.A$16.5B2.3B.B2A$15.BD11B$14.B3D10B$13.4BD9B$12.16B$12.16B$13.16B$13.16B$11.18B$11.2BC15B2.2A$10.3BCBC4B.10BA.A$11.2B3C4B2.4B2A2B3.A$10.5BC4B2.3BA2BAB3.2A$9.10B3.4B2AB$8.4B12.2B.B$7.4B12.3B$6.4B13.B2AB$5.4B15.2A$4.4B$3.4B$2.4B$.4B$4B!

EDIT 2: Periodic H-to-B:

x = 33, y = 23, rule = LifeHistory4.2A$2A.A$2A2.A2.A6.A$5.A.A5.A.A$6.A6.A.A$14.A$5.2A21.2A$5.2A21.A$26.A.A$26.2A3$28.2A$8.A17.A2.A$8.A.A15.3A$8.3A$10.A15.2A.A.2A$27.A.2A.A$27.A$26.2A$18.2D.D$19.3D$20.D!

EDIT 3: Very nice R20CL, though with how ornery C outputs are, nothing in the Nov11 collection fits yet:

x = 19, y = 13, rule = LifeHistory2.3D$2.DBD$.D2BD3.B$.DC3B.4B$2B2C10B$B2C6BA5B$8BABA4B$.7BABA4B$2.B3.3BA3B.B2A$7.2B.2B2.BA.A$11.2B4.A$10.B2AB3.2A$11.2A!

EDIT 4: R-to-G with a new output direction. It allows for smaller p535 and p107 guns.

x = 23, y = 26, rule = LifeHistory5.A$4.A.A$4.BA2B$5.2B$2.4B3.B$.10B$.10B$3BC9B2.B$3B2C13B$.B2C12BA2B.BA$.14BABA2BA.A$2.13BA2BAB.2A$2.14B2A2B$3.15B$4.8B.3B$5.4B5.3B$6.4B4.B2A$7.4B4.A$8.4B4.3A$9.4B5.A$10.4B$11.4B$12.4B$13.4B$14.4B$15.4B! x = 163, y = 69, rule = LifeHistory39.2A88.2A$38.A.A87.A.A$32.2A4.A83.2A4.A$30.A2.A2.2A.4A77.A2.A2.2A.4A$30.2A.A.A.A.A2.A77.2A.A.A.A.A2.A$33.A.ABABAB82.A.ABABAB$33.A.AB2AB83.A.AB2AB$34.AB.2B85.AB.2B$37.3B87.3B$37.4B6.2A78.4B6.2A$35.3B2AB6.A77.3B2AB6.A$35.3B2AB3.BA.A77.3B2AB3.BA.A$33.10B.B2A76.10B.B2A$32.13B77.13B$31.14B76.14B$30.15B75.15B$29.4B2.8B76.4B2.8B$28.4B5.6B17.2A56.4B5.6B17.2A$19.A7.4B4.9B16.A.A46.A7.4B4.9B16.A.A$17.3A6.4B5.2A4.4B16.AB44.3A6.4B5.2A4.4B16.AB$16.A8.4B7.A5.4B13.3B44.A8.4B7.A5.4B13.3B$15.A.A6.4B5.3A7.4B5.2A5.BA2B42.A.A6.4B5.3A7.2B2A5.2A5.BA2B$14.BA.A5.4B6.A10.4B5.A4.BABA2B40.BA.A5.4B6.A10.2A2B5.A4.BABA2B$13.3BA5.4B19.4B4.A.AB.BA2BAB39.3BA5.4B19.BA2B4.A.AB.BA2BAB$11.4B6.4B21.4B4.2A4B2A3B36.4B6.4B21.4B4.2A4B2A3B$9.6B5.4B23.4B4.9B35.6B5.4B23.4B4.9B$8.7B4.4B25.4B5.7B34.7B4.A3B25.4B5.7B$.B.4B.8B2.4B27.4B5.7B26.B.4B.8B2.BABA27.4B5.7B$2AB.17B29.4B3.8B25.2AB.15B2A29.4B3.8B$2A18B31.4B2.10B23.2A18B31.4B2.10B$.2B.16B32.4B.11B23.2B.16B32.4B.11B$4.16B33.14B27.16B33.14B$5.15B34.13B2.B25.15B34.13B2.B$6.12B.B2A33.12B.2BA25.12B.B2A33.12B.2BA$6.11B2.BA.A33.13BA.A24.11B2.BA.A33.13BA.A$7.10B5.A34.11B.BA26.10B5.A34.11B.BA$7.6B2A2B5.2A34.10B29.6B2A2B5.2A34.10B$7.6B2A3B41.9B29.6B2A3B41.9B$7.10B42.B.6B30.10B42.B.B2A3B$3.A.2AB.8B41.9B26.A.2AB.8B41.3BA2BA2B$.3AB2AB3.7B38.11B24.3AB2AB3.7B38.6BABA2B$A4.B6.6B38.10B24.A4.B6.6B38.8BAB$.3A.2A4.6B38.12B24.3A.2A4.6B38.5BABA4B$3.2A2.A4.5B37.14B25.2A2.A4.5B37.5BA3BA4B$6.A.A.8B36.17B25.A.A.8B36.5BA3BA7B$2.A.2A.A.A8B8.A28.15B2A20.A.2A.A.A8B8.A28.7BA7B2A$2.2A.A.BA2B.6B6.3A28.15B2A20.2A.A.BA2B.6B6.3A28.4BA3BA6B2A$5.A2.2B2.2B3A2B4.A30.17B24.A2.2B2.2B3A2B4.A30.3A4BA9B$5.2A.B3.2BA4B4.2A26.16B28.2A.B3.2BA4B4.2A26.3B3AB3A6B$3.2A2.A.A2.B3A4B.4B4.A20.16B27.2A2.A.A2.B3A4B.4B4.A20.2B2ABA2BABA5B$2.A2.A2.2A2.11B4.3A20.16B26.A2.A2.2A2.11B4.3A20.2BA2BA10B$3.2A7.12B2.A22.16B28.2A7.12B2.A22.3B2ABA9B$12.12B2.2A20.20B34.12B2.2A20.2A4BA13B$13.11B3.B20.20B35.11B3.B20.2A18B$16.7B4.3B19.20B37.7B4.3B19.20B$15.8B3.6B16.22B35.8B3.6B16.22B$14.9B2.10B11.24B34.9B2.10B11.24B$13.23B3.2B2.26B34.23B3.2B2.BA24B$11.B.16B2A29B.10B30.B.16B2A13B3A13B.10B$10.2A17B2A22B.7B2.2B4.2A29.2A17B2A13B3A6B.7B2.2B4.2A$10.2A41B2.3B.B4.B4.A30.2A31BA3BA5B2.3B.B4.B4.A$11.42B4.2B2A3.2A4.3A28.32B4A6B4.2B2A3.2A4.3A$9.5B2.36B4.BA2.A4.A6.A26.5B2.27BAB2A5B4.BA2.A4.A6.A$9.2A6.5B5.13B.4B12.3A5.A.A31.2A6.5B5.13B.4B12.3A5.A.A$10.A7.2B.3B3.7B.B4.4B22.2A32.A7.2B.3B3.7B.B4.4B22.2A$7.3A12.2A15.4B14.3A37.3A12.2A15.4B14.3A$7.A14.A15.4B15.A2.A36.A14.A15.4B15.A2.A$23.3A11.4B18.2A52.3A11.4B18.2A$25.A10.4B75.A10.4B! EDIT 5: P58BL. Sadly, the output is not compatible with any conduit in the collection. x = 31, y = 20, rule = LifeHistory5.A$4.A.A$4.BA2B$5.2B$4.B.3B20.A$4.2B2A2B5.2A10.3A$2A.2BA2BA2B3.B2AB8.A$A.A3BABA2B4.3B6.B.2A$.AB.3BA2B2.2B2.B2.2B2.5B$5.21B$7.20B$7.8B3C9B$7.4BD3BCBC9B$9.B2D3BCBC6B2.B2A$9.2D11B4.BA.A$10.2D10B7.A$11.11B7.2A$13.9B$13.8B$15.3B!

EDIT 6: Some Pi conduits, mostly of low quality:

x = 338, y = 52, rule = LifeHistory8.A$8.3A58.2A$11.A13.A42.B2AB$10.2A11.3A43.2B144.A$10.4B8.A47.2B143.3A$12.3B7.2A44.6B40.2A102.A$11.5B3.5B44.7B40.A101.2A$10.7B.4B46.7B40.A.AB98.5B$9.8B.5B45.7B41.2AB.3B96.4B$9.14B44.8B43.5B95.5B$9.15B42.10B42.4BD2B93.6B$10.15B35.2A5.9B34.2A5.4B3D2B91.8B$11.14B34.BA.A2B2.8B34.BA.A2B2.6BDB84.B3.12B$11.14B34.2B2A12B34.2B2A14B81.2AB.13B95.2E$9.17B31.2AB.15B31.2AB.16B81.2A16B93.B2EB$8.19B29.A.AB4.13B29.A.AB4.13B41.3D38.B.16B93.3B$8.19B29.A8.12B29.A8.12B37.2B2.DBD6.2A33.15B94.B$5.B2.19B28.2A9.11B28.2A9.11B35.6BDBDB5.A.A33.15B53.A37.6B$4.25B37.10B40.10B24.2A8.15B4.A35.12B53.A.A36.7B$2.2D26B36.10B40.10B25.A8.18B2A.2A.A31.11B53.A.A36.7B$2DBD26B36.14B36.14B21.A.AB4.21B.A.2A32.13B49.2A.3A34.11B$D30B35.15B35.15B21.2AB.23B2.A34.15B33.A15.B4.A31.14B$3D28B35.3B2D10B35.3B2D10B23.2B2A20B2.2A35.9BD4B32.A.A12.B2AB3A32.14B$4.30B33.2BDBD10B35.2BDBD10B22.BA.A2B2.17B38.9B2D4B31.A.A10.B.B2A.A34.15B$4.3B.27B32.2BD2BD8B36.2BD2BD8B24.2A5.16B39.8B2D4B30.3A.2A7.6B37.14B$5.B4.25B32.3BDBD8B36.3BDBD8B35.12B39.14B29.A4.B8.5B38.8B2D4B$10.25BA31.4BD9B36.4BD9B34.13B39.14B30.3AB2A7.5B38.9B2D3B$10.24B.3A28.16B34.16B34.13B.2B34.16B31.A.2A5.7B.2B34.10BD5B$11.22B5.A26.18B32.18B32.18B32.18B32.4B2.12B32.18B$12.22B3.2A24.21B29.21B29.21B29.21B26.2A5.17B29.21B$12.22B28.22B28.22B28.22B28.22B26.A.A3.18B28.22B$13.21B29.21B29.21B29.21B29.21B28.A3.18B29.21B$15.10B3C6B31.10B3C6B31.10B3C6B31.10B3C6B31.10B3C6B28.2A3.8B3C6B31.10B3C6B$16.9BCBC6B32.9BCBC6B32.9BCBC6B32.9BCBC6B32.9BCBC6B30.AB.8BCBC6B32.9BCBC6B$17.8BCBC6B2A31.8BCBC6B2A31.8BCBC6B2A31.8BCBC6B2A31.8BCBC6B2A26.3A10BCBC6B2A31.8BCBC6B2E$16.18BA.A29.18BA.A29.18BA.A30.17BA.A29.18BA.A24.A2.B.18BA.A30.17BE.E$15.13B.3B4.A28.13B.3B4.A28.13B.3B4.A30.11B.3B4.A28.13B.3B4.A24.2A3.11B2.3B4.A30.11B.3B4.E$14.12B4.B5.2A26.12B4.B5.2A26.12B4.B5.2A30.8B4.B5.2A26.12B4.B5.2A28.10B4.B5.2A30.8B4.B5.2E$13.4B3.6B37.4B3.6B37.4B3.6B44.6B37.4B3.6B40.10B44.6B$12.4B4.4B38.4B4.4B38.4B4.4B46.4B38.4B4.4B43.2D5B46.4B$11.4B46.4B46.4B96.4B52.DB2D$10.4B46.4B46.4B96.4B54.2BD$9.4B46.4B46.4B96.4B55.3D$8.4B46.4B46.4B96.4B$7.4B46.4B46.4B$6.4B96.4B$5.4B96.4B$4.4B97.3B$3.4B98.2B$2.4B$2.3B$2.2B! The rightmost one in yellow was found before, but discarded because there wasn't anything that could accept the output. Now, the pond-based R-to-G can do so, so it's worth revisiting. Last edited by Kazyan on February 3rd, 2016, 9:51 pm, edited 2 times in total. Tanner Jacobi Kazyan Posts: 747 Joined: February 6th, 2014, 11:02 pm Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits Would be a nice H->R if the block on the right can be restored: x = 35, y = 27, rule = LifeHistory19.B$15.6B.B$8.4B.12B$4.D23B2C$3.BD23B2C$2.3D24B$.2D25B$2D24B$.2D22B$2.22B$4.7B3.11B$4.6B8.7B$6.3B6.11B$5.3B6.11B$5.B2CB5.10B$6.2C6.11B$14.B3C7B2A$14.2BC4B3.A2BA2.2A$14.2B3C2B3.ABAB3.A$14.6B5.A4B.A.2A$13.7B7.B2A.A.A$12.8B7.BAB.A2.A$11.8B6.A4.A2.2A$10.9B6.5A$9.4B$27.2A.A$27.A.2A! Sphenocorona Posts: 470 Joined: April 9th, 2013, 11:03 pm Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits Conduits update! Combing through the various threads, I tried to be conservative in my additions. Let me know if I forgot something. Attachments Conduit Collection 4Feb2016.rle.gz (113.43 KiB) Downloaded 189 times Conduits-old-4Feb2016.zip (141.25 KiB) Downloaded 175 times "What's purple and commutes? The Evanston Express." thunk Posts: 165 Joined: October 3rd, 2015, 8:50 pm Location: Central USA Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits Nice! Thanks for the update. To start the list for the next update, here's an unusual QR149B, though there currently isn't a way to get the glider out: x = 37, y = 41, rule = LifeHistory15.A9.A$15.3A5.3A$18.A3.A$17.2A.B.2A$11.2A4.7B4.2A$12.A6.3B6.A$12.A.AB2.5B2.BA.A$13.2AB.7B.B2A$15.5BA5B$15.4BABA4B$15.5BA5B$15.11B3.2A$16.9B4.A$16.9B.BA.A$16.9B.B2A$.A12.13B$.3A7.16B$4.A5.20B$3.2A3.B.24B$3.32B$5.30B$4.32B$4.16BC14B$2.2A15B3C13B$.A.A14B5C11B2D$.A4.11B2C3B2C11B2D$2A5.27B2D$7.27BD$8.3B2.21B$8.4B5.5B2.8B$9.4B6.3B2.8B$10.4B6.B4.3B$11.4B11.B$12.4B$13.4B$14.4B$15.4B$16.4B$17.3BD$18.3BD$19.3D! CatForce often returns results where a tub expands into a honey farm, before filters and survival times are applied. Sometimes, a bunch of eaters can kill off the honey farm mid-formation so that the tub survives, which is what is done here. EDIT: Backwards HF-to-B, in case more progress is made with F outputs later: x = 23, y = 21, rule = LifeHistory10.D$9.3D$9.D.2D3$9.3C$8.C3.C$7.C5.C4.2A$7.C5.C5.A$7.C5.C5.A.2A$3.2A3.C3.C5.2A2.A$3.A2.A2.3C3.A4.2A$4.3A8.5A$13.2A4.A$2A.A.2A7.A2.2A$A.2A.A8.A.A$5.A3.A2.A.A.A$5.2A2.4A.2A$13.A$11.A.A$11.2A! EDIT 2: C-to-G in a new direction: x = 31, y = 27, rule = LifeHistory15.A$15.3A$18.A$17.2A$17.5B$19.B2AB$18.BA2BAB$17.3B2A2B$17.7B$16.7B$16.7B$15.9B$14.3B3C5B$13.6BC5B$12.4BCB2C4B.2B$11.5B2C8B2A.2A$10.17BA.2A$9.17B.A$8.4B2.8B.2BA.A$7.4B4.B2.2B4.B2A$6.4B12.4B$5.4B13.2A$4.4B15.A$3.4B13.3A$2.4B14.A$.4B$4B! EDIT 3: A way to remove one of the parity constraints on my G4 receiver, though it's totally nonspartan: x = 69, y = 65, rule = B3/S2364bo$4b2o56b3o$4b2o39bo15bo$17bo8b2o17b3o13b2o4b2o$15b3o9bo20bo18bo$3b2o9bo11bo20b2o16bobo$2bo2bo8b2o10b2o37b2o$3bobo$bobobobo$obobobobo19bo$bo2bo2bo19b3o$2b2ob2o18b2o2bo$3bobo19bo2bo3b3o$3bobo22bobo4bo$4bo8bo12bo8bo$12bobo4bo7b2o5b2o$12bobo4bo8bo$13bo5bo9bo3bo$31bo$15b3o$58b2o$58b2o22$58b2o$58b2o$15b3o2$13bo5bo$12bobo4bo28bo$12bobo4bo26b2obo$4bo8bo31bo4bo$3bobo23b2o18bo$3bobo23b2o14b4o$2b2ob2o$bo2bo2bo$obobobobo$bobobobo$3bobo$2bo2bo8b2o10b2o37b2o$3b2o9bo11bo20b2o16bobo$15b3o9bo20bo18bo$17bo8b2o17b3o13b2o4b2o$4b2o39bo15bo$4b2o56b3o$64bo! Tanner Jacobi Kazyan Posts: 747 Joined: February 6th, 2014, 11:02 pm Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits Conduits update (finally)! I sincerely apologize for the tardiness. Changes from the previous version (4 Feb): --A few new conduits added (not that many, and some of them were borderline cases). --Several catalysts tweaked to reduce bounding box/cell count. --Layout changed to six columns. --Many, many tpyos fixed. Attachments Conduits-old-30Mar2016.zip Individual conduit files (158.97 KiB) Downloaded 137 times Conduit Collection 30Mar2016.rle.gz The big board (115.28 KiB) Downloaded 148 times Last edited by thunk on March 29th, 2016, 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total. "What's purple and commutes? The Evanston Express." thunk Posts: 165 Joined: October 3rd, 2015, 8:50 pm Location: Central USA Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits thunk wrote:Conduits update coming in a few days: I was just about ready to update, then I noticed quite a few labels were erroneous (so that's what the script was for...) I sincerely apologize for the tardiness. Sounds great! Extra-sincere thanks for taking over the maintenance of the collection, and it's not like you're really on a set schedule here. The next step I'm pondering (but will probably avoid for a while yet, thanks to continuing Life Lexicon work) is a compatibility matrix. Now that the names are standardized reasonably well for all these elementary conduits, which ones actually connect to which? Hersrch had a confusing-but-useful section in the data for each conduit, saying either "this conduit only connects to (specific list)", or "this conduit connects to any conduit except for (specific list)". I think for the sake of simplicity it might be worth avoiding the "except for" syntax, and just make simple positive lists. Hersrch also supported extended compatibility lists -- strings of three or four or more conduits that either worked when you wouldn't expect them to (due to a custom weld) or couldn't be made work even though they technically fit together (no matter how cleverly you welded -- usually due to an inedible output glider). That's a lot of information to sort out for all these elementary conduits. Still, it would be pretty entertaining to put together a script that stuck together all pairs of elementary conduits that looked promising, test them out by dropping in Signal #1 and seeing if Signal #2 appeared at the right time... and throw all the failing cases into a big folder for some welding expert to look at. Hopefully the number of failing cases won't be too large. There's usually no need to include anything where an active cell of a catalyst in one conduit overlaps an active cell in the reaction envelope of another catalyst. There are rare exceptions, where a catalyst just suppresses some junk object, and a spark happens to delete that junk cleanly... but it's probably best to catalogue that kind of thing as a separate new elementary conduit. dvgrn Moderator Posts: 4645 Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm Location: Madison, WI Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits Pi-to-B: x = 38, y = 28, rule = LifeHistory11.2A6.2A11.2A$11.A7.A7.2A2.A.A$12.3A.2A.A7.A3.A4.A$14.A.A.A9.3A.5A$9.2A5.BA3.3B6.A.A$8.A.A4.4B.6B4.ABAB3A$8.A4.7B.10B2ABA2.A$3.A.2A.2A21B.2B2.2A$3.2A.A.22B$6.A2.21B$6.2A2.20B$9.21B$10.19B$10.15B.5B$10.10BDB2D5.2A$6.2B.11B3D6.A$5.16BDB7.3A$4.21B7.A$4.22B$4.21B$4.6B3C10B$4.6BCBC9B$2.2A6BCBC8B$.A.A17B$.A4.3B.11B$2A5.B4.8B$12.6B$14.4B!
Tanner Jacobi

Kazyan

Posts: 747
Joined: February 6th, 2014, 11:02 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Partial E-to-B with an extra (maybe snarkable) blinker:

x = 9, y = 9, rule = LifeHistory7.2A$7.2A4$A$A.A$3A$.A! E-to-G that may or may not ever have an input: x = 21, y = 25, rule = LifeHistory7.A$7.3A$10.A$9.2A9$8.A$8.A.A$8.3A8.2A$9.A9.2A4$2.2A$.A.A$.A11.2A$2A11.A$14.3A$16.A!

EDIT: As a bonus, here is another weird conduit component:

x = 14, y = 26, rule = LifeHistoryA$3A$3.A$2.2A10$.A$.A.A$.3A8.2A$2.A9.2A6$6.2A$6.A$7.3A$9.A! And a sad little transparent block that can't be made to do anything useful. x = 14, y = 23, rule = LifeHistoryA9.2A$3A7.2A$3.A$2.2A7$.A$.A.A$.3A8.2A$2.A9.2A6$6.2A$6.A$7.3A$9.A!

gmc_nxtman

Posts: 1103
Joined: May 26th, 2015, 7:20 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Reporting negative results for the tandem g7 receiver search:

Bait:
Block and pi precursors.

block, tub, barge, transp. block/hive/ship/loaf/tub/pond, eater, ship+eater, block+eater,
hook with tail, dual eater, bookend on pedestal, BTS, eater2.

Timing constraints:
2 catalysts ~ gen 50 (one of them could be transparent)
1 catalyst ~ gen 70 (opaque)
1 catalyst ~ gen 80 (opaque)
1 catalyst ~ gen 90 (opaque)
==================
5 catalysts, at most one of them transperant.

Here are the precise input patterns:
1) this and pi derivatives:
bb..aa..............bb..a.a.................a.......................a.................a.......................a.................a.......................a.................a..............aaa......a..........a......a.............a..a......a.................a.............a..a......a.................a.............a..a......................................a..a......................................a..a......................................a..a......................................a.

2) this and pi derivatives:
bb...............bb..................................................aa...............a.a..............a....................a..............a....................a..............a....................a..............a...........aaa......a.......a......a..........a..a......a..............a..........a..a......a..............a..........a..a................................a..a................................a..a................................a..a................................a.

3) this (didn't search for hf derivatives):
bb..............bb..............................................aa..............a.a.............a...................a.............a...................a.............a...................a.............a..........aaa......a......a......a.........a..a......a.............a.........a..a......a.............a.........a..a..............................a..a..............................a..a..............................a..a..............................a.

Here's scorbie.list which I tried to balance between being economic and comprehensive:
# Catalyst files, improved by Scorbie##Block2C$AC!CA$2C!##Tub.A$A.C$.C!.C$C.A$.A!##Barge.C$C.A$.A.C$2.C!2.C$.A.C$C.A$.C!##Long Ship##Ignored for now.#2C$C.A$.A.C$2.2C!#2.2C$.A.C$C.A$2C!##Transp. Block2C$2C!##Transp. Beehive.2C$C2.C$.2C!.C$C.C$C.C$.C!##Transp. Loaf.2C$C2.C$C.C$.C!.2C$C2.C$.C.C$2.C!2.C$.C.C$C2.C$.2C!.C$C.C$C2.C$.2C!##Transp. Boat.C$C.C$.2C!.C$C.C$2C!2C$C.C$.C!.2C$C.C$.C!##Transp. Ship2C$C.C$.2C!.2C$C.C$2C!##Transp. tub.C$C.C$.C!##Transp. Pond.2C$C2.C$C2.C$.2C!##Eater 1CA$A$.3A$3.A!2.AC$.A.A$.A$2A!A$3A$3.A$2.AC!2.2A$2.A$A.A$CA!CA$A.A$2.A$2.2A!2.AC$3.A$3A$A!2A$.A$.A.A$2.AC!3.A$.3A$A$CA!##Block + Eater2C$2A2.CA$4.A.A$6.A$6.A.A$7.AC2.2A$11.2C!11.2C$7.AC2.2A$6.A.A$6.A$4.A.A$2A2.CA$2C!5.AC$5.AC3$4.AC$5.A$2.3A$.A$.CA3$CA$CA!CA$CA3$.CA$.A$2.3A$5.A$4.AC3$5.AC$5.AC!##Ship + Eater10.2A$10.C.C$11.2C$7.AC$6.A.A$6.A$4.A.A$4.CA$2C$C.C$.2A!.2A$C.C$2C$4.CA$4.A.A$6.A$6.A.A$7.AC$11.2C$10.C.C$10.2A!.2C$A.C$AC$$3.CA3.A4.3A7.A6.AC$$9.CA$8.C.A$8.2C!8.2C$8.C.A$9.CA$$6.AC7.A4.3A3.A3.CA$$AC$A.C$.2C!##Hook with tail2A.A$.A.3A$A5.A$.3A.A$3.A.2A!2.A.A$.A.2A$.A$2A.2A$3.A$2A.A$A.A!##Dual eater3.2C$3.A.A$.A.A.3A$A.2A4.A$A4.2A.A$.3A.A.A$3.A.A$4.2C!4.2C$3.A.A$.3A.A.A$A4.2A.A$A.2A4.A$.A.A.3A$3.A.A$3.2C!3.2A$2.A2.A$3.A.A$C3A.2A$C6.C$.2A.3AC$2.A.A$2.A2.A$3.2A!3.2A$2.A2.A$2.A.A$.2A.3AC$C6.C$C3A.2A$3.A.A$2.A2.A$3.2A!##Bookend on pedestal6.2C$4.C2.A$4.3A$.C$.6A$6.C$.3A$A2.C$2C!2C$A2.C$.3A$6.C$.6A$.C$4.3A$4.C2.A$6.2C!7.AC$3.CA.A.C$4.A.A$4.A.AC$.CA.A$2.A.A$C.A.AC$CA!CA$C.A.AC$2.A.A$.CA.A$4.A.AC$4.A.A$3.CA.A.C$7.AC!##BTS2.2C.C$3.A.3A$.A.A4.A$A.2A.2A.A$A4.A.A$.3A.A$3.C.2C!3.C.2C$.3A.A$A4.A.A$A.2A.2A.A$.A.A4.A$3.A.3A$2.2C.C!3.2A$2.A2.A$C2.A.A$C3A.AC2$CA.3AC$.A.A2.C$.A2.A$2.2A!2.2A$.A2.A$.A.A2.C$CA.3AC2$C3A.AC$C2.A.A$2.A2.A$3.2A!##Eater22C.A$2C.3A$6.A$2A.2A.A$.A.2A.2A$.A$2.3A.2C$4.A.2C!4.A.2C$2.3A.2C$.A$.A.2A.2A$2A.2A.A$6.A$2C.3A$2C.A! Best wishes to you, Scorbie Scorbie Posts: 1349 Joined: December 7th, 2013, 1:05 am Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits Is there anything that can salvage this 100-tick transparent block? x = 14, y = 19, rule = LifeHistory2A$2A10$.3A$3.A$.3A$10.2A$10.A.A$12.A$2.2A8.2A$2.2A!

gmc_nxtman

Posts: 1103
Joined: May 26th, 2015, 7:20 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Conduit Collection 13Apr2016.rle.gz
For some inexplicable reason, I decided to get obsessed in somehting completely different.

But I had the foresight to update the Collection with contributions from AbhpzTa through 13 April. I don't think there's been anything worthy of inclusion since then.

See you in June! :p
Attachments
conduits-old-13Apr.zip
"What's purple and commutes?
The Evanston Express."
thunk

Posts: 165
Joined: October 3rd, 2015, 8:50 pm
Location: Central USA

Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

A possibly new H->Pi, HF134P:

x = 42, y = 55, rule = LifeHistory9.D3.D.5D2.D3.3D5.D2.4D$9.D3.D.D5.2D2.D3.D3.2D2.D3.D$9.D3.D.D6.D6.D2.D.D2.D3.D$9.5D.3D4.D4.2D2.D2.D2.4D$9.D3.D.D6.D6.D.5D.D$9.D3.D.D6.D2.D3.D4.D2.D$9.D3.D.D5.3D2.3D5.D2.D10$21.2A$22.A$20.A$20.5A$24.A7.A$18.4AB7.3A$18.A2.AB6.A$19.6B4.2A$B11.2A6.11B$2B11.A7.8B$3B10.A.AB2.10B$4B4.2A4.2AB.13B$.4B4.A5.16B$2.4B3.A.AB3.15B$3.4B3.2AB.18B$4.4B4.22B$5.4B3.23B$6.4B3.22B$7.4B.23B$8.26B$8.25B3D$8.2BC24BD$7.3BCBC4B.15B3D$8.2B3C4B2.15B$7.5BC4B2.15B$6.20B.6B$5.4B6.11B2.4B$4.4B8.10B3.B.3B$3.4B8.B.10B4.B2A$2.4B8.A2B.8B5.BA.A$.4B8.A.A11B5.B2A$4B10.AB.10B3.4B$3B14.10B3.2A$2B16.7B6.A$B17.6B4.3A$16.2AB9.A$15.A.AB$15.A$14.2A! Unfortunately, it doesn't currently connect to anything. If there is a way to eat that beehive with more clearance, then it may have an input. EDIT: And H->R: x = 45, y = 55, rule = LifeHistory7.D3.D.4D4.D5.D3.3D2.4D$7.D3.D.D3.D2.2D4.2D2.D3.D.D3.D$7.D3.D.D3.D3.D3.D.D2.D3.D.D3.D$7.5D.4D4.D2.D2.D3.4D.4D$7.D3.D.D2.D4.D2.5D5.D.D2.D$7.D3.D.D3.D3.D5.D6.D.D3.D$7.D3.D.D3.D2.3D4.D3.3D2.D3.D10$20.2A$21.A$19.A$19.5A$23.A7.A$17.4AB7.3A$17.A2.AB6.A$18.6B4.2A$11.2A6.11B$B11.A7.8B11.A$2B10.A.AB2.10B9.3A$3B4.2A4.2AB.13B6.A$4B4.A5.16B6.2A$.4B3.A.AB3.15B3.5B$2.4B3.2AB.18B2.3B$3.4B4.27B$4.4B3.28B4.2A$5.4B3.26B5.A$6.4B.27B2.BA.A$7.32B.B2A$7.34B$7.2BC31B$6.3BCBC4B.24B$7.2B3C4B2.21B$6.5BC4B2.20B$5.20B.12B$4.4B6.11B2.2BD8B$3.4B8.10B3.B3D2.3B$2.4B8.B.10B4.D$.4B8.A2B.8B$4B8.A.A11B$3B10.AB.10B$2B14.10B$B16.7B$17.6B$15.2AB$14.A.AB$14.A$13.2A!

gmc_nxtman

Posts: 1103
Joined: May 26th, 2015, 7:20 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

@gmc_nxtman looks good, the conduits are still somewhat "squeezed" and hard to attach to anything, have you check possible connections?

simsim314

Posts: 1539
Joined: February 10th, 2014, 1:27 pm

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