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The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby triller » December 6th, 2015, 12:48 pm

dvgrn wrote:If you have more specific requirements for recovery time, available space, or reconstruction options, just post them and I can probably dig up something to match.

I was considering injecting a Herschel into the six blocks of a B60P120 gun to start it.
I looked at the two glider b-hep collisions to no avail.
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby chris_c » December 6th, 2015, 2:24 pm

triller wrote:I was considering injecting a Herschel into the six blocks of a B60P120 gun to start it.
I looked at the two glider b-hep collisions to no avail.


I found a block + beehive constellation that does the trick. I posted it as part of a pattern in the Demonoid thread a little while ago:

x = 33, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
27bo$27bobo$27b2o$2o5b2o$2o5b2o2$4b2o$4b2o4$27b2o$27b2o2$20b2o9b2o$15b
2o2bo2bo8b2o$15b2o3b2o!
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby triller » December 6th, 2015, 5:59 pm

chris_c wrote:I found a block + beehive constellation that does the trick. I posted it as part of a pattern in the Demonoid thread a little while ago

Thanks. I missed it there.
I'm watching your latest Demonoid now. (Actually the Demonoid gun. Dare I, Diamondoid?)
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby thunk » December 7th, 2015, 6:33 pm

Reading up on this thread and the Hunting thread, it seems that the primary criterion when picking canonical forms for the conduit collection seems to be a) obtrusiveness, then b) bounding box.

Which leads to the question: what is less obtrusive, an eater tail or a snake? One can be replaced with another, but eater tails are used in almost all conduits where this rock is called for (except for BFx59H).

There are certain situations where snakes are less obtrusive and work where eaters don't:

x = 84, y = 49, rule = LifeHistory
7$9.2A$10.A$10.A.AB$11.2AB$13.3B$13.4B20.A$14.4B.B17.3A$15.7B8.A9.A$
16.6B6.3A2.A5.2A$16.2B3E2B4.A5.3A3.4B$16.2BE4B4.2A7.A4.2B$16.B3E4B.4B
6.2A.10B$16.11B8.14B.BA$16.12B9.13BA.A$16.12B7.15B.2A$17.11B6.14B$20.
7B3.3B.13B$19.9B.18B6.7B.B$15.34B4.13B.B$13.38BD21B$12.24B3D13BD21BD$
12.26BD13B2D18B3DB$12.24B3D12B2D2B2A15BDBD$10.2AB.37BD3B2A15BD$9.A.AB
3.31B4.11B3.2B2.2B$9.A5.31B5.10B$8.2A6.14B.13B8.6B$17.12B5.9B10.3B$
17.4B.4B2AB5.2B.4B12.B$18.2B3.3B2A5.7B12.2A$17.B2AB2.2B.B6.A.2A15.A$
18.2A6.2C3.3A.A17.A$27.C2.A4.A.A14.2A$26.AD.DA.3A.2A$26.2A2D.A2.A$32.
A.A$33.A!


Yet eaters are considerably more common than snakes, and also spartan. What would be the advice here?
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby BlinkerSpawn » December 7th, 2015, 7:30 pm

thunk wrote:It seems that the primary criterion when picking canonical forms for the conduit collection seems to be a) obtrusiveness, then b) bounding box.

I believe we can say c) would then be population, which should resolve the issue.
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby Sokwe » December 7th, 2015, 7:53 pm

thunk wrote:Reading up on this thread and the Hunting thread, it seems that the primary criterion when picking canonical forms for the conduit collection seems to be a) obtrusiveness, then b) bounding box.

BlinkerSpawn wrote:I believe we can say c) would then be population, which should resolve the issue.

Usually, we consider glider-constructability before any of those other criteria. In general, fish-hook eaters are easier to construct than snakes or aircraft carriers, and this is probably the primary reason that the eater was used in HL75P.
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby A for awesome » December 7th, 2015, 7:54 pm

thunk wrote:Which leads to the question: what is less obtrusive, an eater tail or a snake? One can be replaced with another, but eater tails are used in almost all conduits where this rock is called for (except for BFx59H).
Sometimes I find that eater heads are often the best option. They are less obtrusive to any parallel conduits, and they tend to be easier to work with while searching for conduits, as they have the advantage of being able to work as eaters as well, if the reaction returns to that location. I don't know if that was relevant to your question, but that's my take.
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby dvgrn » December 7th, 2015, 11:07 pm

A for awesome wrote:
thunk wrote:Which leads to the question: what is less obtrusive, an eater tail or a snake? One can be replaced with another, but eater tails are used in almost all conduits where this rock is called for (except for BFx59H).
Sometimes I find that eater heads are often the best option. They are less obtrusive to any parallel conduits, and they tend to be easier to work with while searching for conduits, as they have the advantage of being able to work as eaters as well, if the reaction returns to that location. I don't know if that was relevant to your question, but that's my take.

The traditional rule is to minimize the bounding box (of the whole conduit, not the specific catalyst) and then the population. That means that snakes or aircraft carriers are generally used instead of eaters, as long as the conduits aren't intended for self-constructing circuitry. In that case you substitute an eater -- but you can choose either end of the eater, and it usually doesn't matter which end you use. A good compiler would try both versions and build whichever one was cheaper... but we don't have a good Spartan compiler yet.

For non-Spartan "canonical" forms it's probably a really good idea to use a snake, just because that makes it clear that the catalyst is a rock. A snake is instantly recognizable as a candidate for various substitutions, if the other end of the snake gets in the way of something. If an eater is shown in the canonical form, it kind of implies that there really has to be an eater there for the reaction to work.
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby A for awesome » January 18th, 2016, 10:26 am

The eater 2 in the CBx37C can be replaced by an eater 1:
x = 41, y = 20, rule = LifeHistory
11.2A.2A19.2A.2A$10.B.A.2A18.B.A.2A$8.3B.A19.3B.A$2.3D3.3B2A13.3D3.3B
2A$2.D9B14.D9B$2.2DBD5B15.2DBD5B$4B2D4B14.4B2D4B$11B13.11B$11B13.11B$
.11B13.11B$3.4B3C2B15.4B3C2B$2.7BC3B13.7BC3B$2.4BCB2C3B13.4BCB2C3B$3.
3B2C3B.B2A.A10.3B2C3B.B2A$4.7B.B2AB3A9.7B.BA.A$4.6B4.B4.A8.6B5.A$5.5B
3.2A.3A10.5B5.2A$5.4B5.A.A12.4B$14.A.A$15.A!
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby Scorbie » January 19th, 2016, 7:45 am

Here are the results of the first three catalysts of Kazyan's G10 (from that upgraded Fx77).
(I added the eater2 in the second pattern manually merely to delete a blinker. There may be a smaller replacement, or even a replacement for the second glider!)
x = 108, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
12b2o62bo$12b2o62b3o$2o77bo$o77b2o12bo$b3o82bo4bobo$3bo81bobo3bobo$73b
2o11bo3b2ob3o$6b2o3bo61b2o21bo$6b2o2b2o78b2ob3o$10bobo77b2obo$14bo$75b
2o3bo$13bo2bo58b2o2b2o$79bobo$15bo2bo7b3o41b2o11bo$26bo43b2o$17bo2bo6b
o2bo51bo2bo2$11b2o6bo2bo6bo2bo51bo2bo7b3o$11b2o82bo$21bo9bo2bo51bo2bo
6bo2bo2$33bo2bo51bo2bo6bo2bo2$35bo2bo51bo9bo2bo2$37bo64bo2bo2$104bo2bo
2$106bo!
Edit: The second one leads to an hive-making conduit with one degree of freedom.
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby Kazyan » January 19th, 2016, 7:46 pm

Periodic HL122H:

x = 27, y = 23, rule = B3/S23
12bo$10b3o$9bo$9b2o2$14b2o$14b2o$24b2o$24bobo$21b2obobo$21bobobo$b2o
20bo$b2o10b3o7b2o$14bo8b3o$12b3o8b3o$23b3o$23b3o$23b2o$3bob2o16bo$b3ob
o15bobobo$o6bo13b2obobo$2o4b2o16bobo$24b2o!


Currently using Bellman to try to delete the 3/4 traffic light in a stable way, but in the meantime, this form allows for tight p244 and p488 guns:

x = 149, y = 58, rule = B3/S23
10b2o10b2o77b2o10b2o$9bo2bo8bo2bo75bo2bo8bo2bo$9b3o2b6o2b3o18bo56b3o2b
6o2b3o18bo$12b2o6b2o19b3o59b2o6b2o19b3o$11bo10bo17bo61bo10bo17bo$11b2o
bo4bob2o17b2o60b2obo4bob2o17b2o$16b2o89b2o$45b2o89b2o$45b2o89b2o$55b2o
89b2o$55bobo88bobo$7b2o43b2obobo40b2o43b2obobo$7b2o43bobobo41b2o43bobo
bo$32b2o20bo68b2o20bo$2b2o28b2o19bo2bo36b2o28b2o19bo2bo$3bo49bo40bo49b
o$3bobo47bo3bo36bobo47bo3bo$4b2o47bo3bo37b2o47bo3bo$53bo90bo$22b2o29bo
2bo56b2o29bo2bo$20bo2bo10bob2o6b3o7bo56bo2bo10bob2o6b3o7bo$20b2o10b3ob
o7bo2bo4bobobo54b2o10b3obo7bo2bo4bobobo$9b3o19bo6bo4bo3bo4b2obobo64bo
6bo4bo3bo4b2obobo$20b2o9b2o4b2o4bobob2o6bobo53b2o9b2o4b2o4bobob2o6bobo
$13b3o5bo22b2ob2o6b2o47b2o6bo22b2ob2o6b2o$13b3o5bobo21b3o56b2o6bobo21b
3o$10b3o9b2o89b2o$10bobob2o$10bobob2o$42b2obobo85b2obobo$42b2obobo85b
2obobo$34b2o9b3o77b2o9b3o$10b3o21bobo5b3o80bobo5b3o$b2o6b2ob2o22bo5b3o
47b2o33bo5b3o$obo6b2obobo4b2o4b2o9b2o53bobo16b2o4b2o9b2o$obob2o4bo3bo
4bo6bo19b3o42bobob2o13bo6bo19b3o$bobobo4bo2bo7bob3o10b2o54bobobo15bob
3o10b2o$3bo7b3o6b2obo10bo2bo56bo16b2obo10bo2bo$bo2bo29b2o56bo2bo29b2o$
4bo90bo$o3bo86bo3bo$o3bo86bo3bo$4bo90bo$bo2bo19b2o66bo2bo19b2o$3bo20b
2o31bo36bo20b2o31bo$bobobo43b2o4bobo34bobobo43b2o4bobo$obob2o43b2o5b2o
33bobob2o43b2o5b2o$obo88bobo$b2o89b2o$11b2o89b2o$11b2o89b2o$40b2o89b2o
$16b2o17b2obo4bob2o60b2o17b2obo4bob2o$17bo17bo10bo61bo17bo10bo$14b3o
19b2o6b2o59b3o19b2o6b2o$14bo18b3o2b6o2b3o56bo18b3o2b6o2b3o$33bo2bo8bo
2bo75bo2bo8bo2bo$34b2o10b2o77b2o10b2o!


EDIT: Here's something delightfully weird and spartan. I haven't found a good way to cleanly extract one of the B outputs, but I'm sure there's something that doesn't require resorting to Bellman:

x = 34, y = 35, rule = B3/S23
$10b2o$10bobo7bo$12bo5b3o$12b2o3bo$17b2o4$30b2o$9bo20b2o$10bo$10b2o14b
o$9b2o14bobo$9bo14bo2bo$25b2o16$20bo$19bobo$19b2o!
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby thunk » January 24th, 2016, 2:51 pm

Don't worry, I haven't disappeared. The next conduit update will probably be next weekend, since enough new stuff has been posted to merit an update (and I have a lot of schoolwork this week, for some reason.)
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby Kazyan » January 24th, 2016, 5:17 pm

P30BR:

x = 29, y = 20, rule = LifeHistory
A$3A$3.A$2.2A$2.5B2.B$4.3B.2B2A$2.8B2A$2.13B$2.4BA9B5.2B$2.3BABA9B2.
5B$3.BA2BA18B$4.B2A20B$5.7B3C11B2A$3.4B.4BCBC8B.BA.BA$3.2A2.5BCBC8B3.
2A$4.A2.15B$.3A4.13B$.A8.3BD6B$11.3D.2B$12.D!


This looks ripe to be converted into a factory or spartan snark/syringe, but a quick 2-spartan-object CatForce search doesn't give me a solution.

EDIT: A spartan H-to-R:

x = 35, y = 26, rule = LifeHistory
30.2A$30.A$18.3B6.BA.A$16.5B2.3B.B2A$15.BD11B$14.B3D10B$13.4BD9B$12.
16B$12.16B$13.16B$13.16B$11.18B$11.2BC15B2.2A$10.3BCBC4B.10BA.A$11.2B
3C4B2.4B2A2B3.A$10.5BC4B2.3BA2BAB3.2A$9.10B3.4B2AB$8.4B12.2B.B$7.4B
12.3B$6.4B13.B2AB$5.4B15.2A$4.4B$3.4B$2.4B$.4B$4B!


EDIT 2: Periodic H-to-B:

x = 33, y = 23, rule = LifeHistory
4.2A$2A.A$2A2.A2.A6.A$5.A.A5.A.A$6.A6.A.A$14.A$5.2A21.2A$5.2A21.A$26.
A.A$26.2A3$28.2A$8.A17.A2.A$8.A.A15.3A$8.3A$10.A15.2A.A.2A$27.A.2A.A$
27.A$26.2A$18.2D.D$19.3D$20.D!


EDIT 3: Very nice R20CL, though with how ornery C outputs are, nothing in the Nov11 collection fits yet:

x = 19, y = 13, rule = LifeHistory
2.3D$2.DBD$.D2BD3.B$.DC3B.4B$2B2C10B$B2C6BA5B$8BABA4B$.7BABA4B$2.B3.
3BA3B.B2A$7.2B.2B2.BA.A$11.2B4.A$10.B2AB3.2A$11.2A!


EDIT 4: R-to-G with a new output direction. It allows for smaller p535 and p107 guns.

x = 23, y = 26, rule = LifeHistory
5.A$4.A.A$4.BA2B$5.2B$2.4B3.B$.10B$.10B$3BC9B2.B$3B2C13B$.B2C12BA2B.B
A$.14BABA2BA.A$2.13BA2BAB.2A$2.14B2A2B$3.15B$4.8B.3B$5.4B5.3B$6.4B4.B
2A$7.4B4.A$8.4B4.3A$9.4B5.A$10.4B$11.4B$12.4B$13.4B$14.4B$15.4B!


x = 163, y = 69, rule = LifeHistory
39.2A88.2A$38.A.A87.A.A$32.2A4.A83.2A4.A$30.A2.A2.2A.4A77.A2.A2.2A.4A
$30.2A.A.A.A.A2.A77.2A.A.A.A.A2.A$33.A.ABABAB82.A.ABABAB$33.A.AB2AB
83.A.AB2AB$34.AB.2B85.AB.2B$37.3B87.3B$37.4B6.2A78.4B6.2A$35.3B2AB6.A
77.3B2AB6.A$35.3B2AB3.BA.A77.3B2AB3.BA.A$33.10B.B2A76.10B.B2A$32.13B
77.13B$31.14B76.14B$30.15B75.15B$29.4B2.8B76.4B2.8B$28.4B5.6B17.2A56.
4B5.6B17.2A$19.A7.4B4.9B16.A.A46.A7.4B4.9B16.A.A$17.3A6.4B5.2A4.4B16.
AB44.3A6.4B5.2A4.4B16.AB$16.A8.4B7.A5.4B13.3B44.A8.4B7.A5.4B13.3B$15.
A.A6.4B5.3A7.4B5.2A5.BA2B42.A.A6.4B5.3A7.2B2A5.2A5.BA2B$14.BA.A5.4B6.
A10.4B5.A4.BABA2B40.BA.A5.4B6.A10.2A2B5.A4.BABA2B$13.3BA5.4B19.4B4.A.
AB.BA2BAB39.3BA5.4B19.BA2B4.A.AB.BA2BAB$11.4B6.4B21.4B4.2A4B2A3B36.4B
6.4B21.4B4.2A4B2A3B$9.6B5.4B23.4B4.9B35.6B5.4B23.4B4.9B$8.7B4.4B25.4B
5.7B34.7B4.A3B25.4B5.7B$.B.4B.8B2.4B27.4B5.7B26.B.4B.8B2.BABA27.4B5.
7B$2AB.17B29.4B3.8B25.2AB.15B2A29.4B3.8B$2A18B31.4B2.10B23.2A18B31.4B
2.10B$.2B.16B32.4B.11B23.2B.16B32.4B.11B$4.16B33.14B27.16B33.14B$5.
15B34.13B2.B25.15B34.13B2.B$6.12B.B2A33.12B.2BA25.12B.B2A33.12B.2BA$
6.11B2.BA.A33.13BA.A24.11B2.BA.A33.13BA.A$7.10B5.A34.11B.BA26.10B5.A
34.11B.BA$7.6B2A2B5.2A34.10B29.6B2A2B5.2A34.10B$7.6B2A3B41.9B29.6B2A
3B41.9B$7.10B42.B.6B30.10B42.B.B2A3B$3.A.2AB.8B41.9B26.A.2AB.8B41.3BA
2BA2B$.3AB2AB3.7B38.11B24.3AB2AB3.7B38.6BABA2B$A4.B6.6B38.10B24.A4.B
6.6B38.8BAB$.3A.2A4.6B38.12B24.3A.2A4.6B38.5BABA4B$3.2A2.A4.5B37.14B
25.2A2.A4.5B37.5BA3BA4B$6.A.A.8B36.17B25.A.A.8B36.5BA3BA7B$2.A.2A.A.A
8B8.A28.15B2A20.A.2A.A.A8B8.A28.7BA7B2A$2.2A.A.BA2B.6B6.3A28.15B2A20.
2A.A.BA2B.6B6.3A28.4BA3BA6B2A$5.A2.2B2.2B3A2B4.A30.17B24.A2.2B2.2B3A
2B4.A30.3A4BA9B$5.2A.B3.2BA4B4.2A26.16B28.2A.B3.2BA4B4.2A26.3B3AB3A6B
$3.2A2.A.A2.B3A4B.4B4.A20.16B27.2A2.A.A2.B3A4B.4B4.A20.2B2ABA2BABA5B$
2.A2.A2.2A2.11B4.3A20.16B26.A2.A2.2A2.11B4.3A20.2BA2BA10B$3.2A7.12B2.
A22.16B28.2A7.12B2.A22.3B2ABA9B$12.12B2.2A20.20B34.12B2.2A20.2A4BA13B
$13.11B3.B20.20B35.11B3.B20.2A18B$16.7B4.3B19.20B37.7B4.3B19.20B$15.
8B3.6B16.22B35.8B3.6B16.22B$14.9B2.10B11.24B34.9B2.10B11.24B$13.23B3.
2B2.26B34.23B3.2B2.BA24B$11.B.16B2A29B.10B30.B.16B2A13B3A13B.10B$10.
2A17B2A22B.7B2.2B4.2A29.2A17B2A13B3A6B.7B2.2B4.2A$10.2A41B2.3B.B4.B4.
A30.2A31BA3BA5B2.3B.B4.B4.A$11.42B4.2B2A3.2A4.3A28.32B4A6B4.2B2A3.2A
4.3A$9.5B2.36B4.BA2.A4.A6.A26.5B2.27BAB2A5B4.BA2.A4.A6.A$9.2A6.5B5.
13B.4B12.3A5.A.A31.2A6.5B5.13B.4B12.3A5.A.A$10.A7.2B.3B3.7B.B4.4B22.
2A32.A7.2B.3B3.7B.B4.4B22.2A$7.3A12.2A15.4B14.3A37.3A12.2A15.4B14.3A$
7.A14.A15.4B15.A2.A36.A14.A15.4B15.A2.A$23.3A11.4B18.2A52.3A11.4B18.
2A$25.A10.4B75.A10.4B!


EDIT 5: P58BL. Sadly, the output is not compatible with any conduit in the collection.

x = 31, y = 20, rule = LifeHistory
5.A$4.A.A$4.BA2B$5.2B$4.B.3B20.A$4.2B2A2B5.2A10.3A$2A.2BA2BA2B3.B2AB
8.A$A.A3BABA2B4.3B6.B.2A$.AB.3BA2B2.2B2.B2.2B2.5B$5.21B$7.20B$7.8B3C
9B$7.4BD3BCBC9B$9.B2D3BCBC6B2.B2A$9.2D11B4.BA.A$10.2D10B7.A$11.11B7.
2A$13.9B$13.8B$15.3B!


EDIT 6: Some Pi conduits, mostly of low quality:

x = 338, y = 52, rule = LifeHistory
8.A$8.3A58.2A$11.A13.A42.B2AB$10.2A11.3A43.2B144.A$10.4B8.A47.2B143.
3A$12.3B7.2A44.6B40.2A102.A$11.5B3.5B44.7B40.A101.2A$10.7B.4B46.7B40.
A.AB98.5B$9.8B.5B45.7B41.2AB.3B96.4B$9.14B44.8B43.5B95.5B$9.15B42.10B
42.4BD2B93.6B$10.15B35.2A5.9B34.2A5.4B3D2B91.8B$11.14B34.BA.A2B2.8B
34.BA.A2B2.6BDB84.B3.12B$11.14B34.2B2A12B34.2B2A14B81.2AB.13B95.2E$9.
17B31.2AB.15B31.2AB.16B81.2A16B93.B2EB$8.19B29.A.AB4.13B29.A.AB4.13B
41.3D38.B.16B93.3B$8.19B29.A8.12B29.A8.12B37.2B2.DBD6.2A33.15B94.B$5.
B2.19B28.2A9.11B28.2A9.11B35.6BDBDB5.A.A33.15B53.A37.6B$4.25B37.10B
40.10B24.2A8.15B4.A35.12B53.A.A36.7B$2.2D26B36.10B40.10B25.A8.18B2A.
2A.A31.11B53.A.A36.7B$2DBD26B36.14B36.14B21.A.AB4.21B.A.2A32.13B49.2A
.3A34.11B$D30B35.15B35.15B21.2AB.23B2.A34.15B33.A15.B4.A31.14B$3D28B
35.3B2D10B35.3B2D10B23.2B2A20B2.2A35.9BD4B32.A.A12.B2AB3A32.14B$4.30B
33.2BDBD10B35.2BDBD10B22.BA.A2B2.17B38.9B2D4B31.A.A10.B.B2A.A34.15B$
4.3B.27B32.2BD2BD8B36.2BD2BD8B24.2A5.16B39.8B2D4B30.3A.2A7.6B37.14B$
5.B4.25B32.3BDBD8B36.3BDBD8B35.12B39.14B29.A4.B8.5B38.8B2D4B$10.25BA
31.4BD9B36.4BD9B34.13B39.14B30.3AB2A7.5B38.9B2D3B$10.24B.3A28.16B34.
16B34.13B.2B34.16B31.A.2A5.7B.2B34.10BD5B$11.22B5.A26.18B32.18B32.18B
32.18B32.4B2.12B32.18B$12.22B3.2A24.21B29.21B29.21B29.21B26.2A5.17B
29.21B$12.22B28.22B28.22B28.22B28.22B26.A.A3.18B28.22B$13.21B29.21B
29.21B29.21B29.21B28.A3.18B29.21B$15.10B3C6B31.10B3C6B31.10B3C6B31.
10B3C6B31.10B3C6B28.2A3.8B3C6B31.10B3C6B$16.9BCBC6B32.9BCBC6B32.9BCBC
6B32.9BCBC6B32.9BCBC6B30.AB.8BCBC6B32.9BCBC6B$17.8BCBC6B2A31.8BCBC6B
2A31.8BCBC6B2A31.8BCBC6B2A31.8BCBC6B2A26.3A10BCBC6B2A31.8BCBC6B2E$16.
18BA.A29.18BA.A29.18BA.A30.17BA.A29.18BA.A24.A2.B.18BA.A30.17BE.E$15.
13B.3B4.A28.13B.3B4.A28.13B.3B4.A30.11B.3B4.A28.13B.3B4.A24.2A3.11B2.
3B4.A30.11B.3B4.E$14.12B4.B5.2A26.12B4.B5.2A26.12B4.B5.2A30.8B4.B5.2A
26.12B4.B5.2A28.10B4.B5.2A30.8B4.B5.2E$13.4B3.6B37.4B3.6B37.4B3.6B44.
6B37.4B3.6B40.10B44.6B$12.4B4.4B38.4B4.4B38.4B4.4B46.4B38.4B4.4B43.2D
5B46.4B$11.4B46.4B46.4B96.4B52.DB2D$10.4B46.4B46.4B96.4B54.2BD$9.4B
46.4B46.4B96.4B55.3D$8.4B46.4B46.4B96.4B$7.4B46.4B46.4B$6.4B96.4B$5.
4B96.4B$4.4B97.3B$3.4B98.2B$2.4B$2.3B$2.2B!


The rightmost one in yellow was found before, but discarded because there wasn't anything that could accept the output. Now, the pond-based R-to-G can do so, so it's worth revisiting.
Last edited by Kazyan on February 3rd, 2016, 9:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby Sphenocorona » February 1st, 2016, 12:07 am

Would be a nice H->R if the block on the right can be restored:
x = 35, y = 27, rule = LifeHistory
19.B$15.6B.B$8.4B.12B$4.D23B2C$3.BD23B2C$2.3D24B$.2D25B$2D24B$.2D22B$
2.22B$4.7B3.11B$4.6B8.7B$6.3B6.11B$5.3B6.11B$5.B2CB5.10B$6.2C6.11B$
14.B3C7B2A$14.2BC4B3.A2BA2.2A$14.2B3C2B3.ABAB3.A$14.6B5.A4B.A.2A$13.
7B7.B2A.A.A$12.8B7.BAB.A2.A$11.8B6.A4.A2.2A$10.9B6.5A$9.4B$27.2A.A$
27.A.2A!
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby thunk » February 4th, 2016, 10:38 pm

Conduits update!

Combing through the various threads, I tried to be conservative in my additions. Let me know if I forgot something.
Attachments
Conduit Collection 4Feb2016.rle.gz
(113.43 KiB) Downloaded 165 times
Conduits-old-4Feb2016.zip
(141.25 KiB) Downloaded 149 times
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby Kazyan » February 5th, 2016, 4:43 am

Nice! Thanks for the update.

To start the list for the next update, here's an unusual QR149B, though there currently isn't a way to get the glider out:

x = 37, y = 41, rule = LifeHistory
15.A9.A$15.3A5.3A$18.A3.A$17.2A.B.2A$11.2A4.7B4.2A$12.A6.3B6.A$12.A.A
B2.5B2.BA.A$13.2AB.7B.B2A$15.5BA5B$15.4BABA4B$15.5BA5B$15.11B3.2A$16.
9B4.A$16.9B.BA.A$16.9B.B2A$.A12.13B$.3A7.16B$4.A5.20B$3.2A3.B.24B$3.
32B$5.30B$4.32B$4.16BC14B$2.2A15B3C13B$.A.A14B5C11B2D$.A4.11B2C3B2C
11B2D$2A5.27B2D$7.27BD$8.3B2.21B$8.4B5.5B2.8B$9.4B6.3B2.8B$10.4B6.B4.
3B$11.4B11.B$12.4B$13.4B$14.4B$15.4B$16.4B$17.3BD$18.3BD$19.3D!


CatForce often returns results where a tub expands into a honey farm, before filters and survival times are applied. Sometimes, a bunch of eaters can kill off the honey farm mid-formation so that the tub survives, which is what is done here.

EDIT: Backwards HF-to-B, in case more progress is made with F outputs later:

x = 23, y = 21, rule = LifeHistory
10.D$9.3D$9.D.2D3$9.3C$8.C3.C$7.C5.C4.2A$7.C5.C5.A$7.C5.C5.A.2A$3.2A
3.C3.C5.2A2.A$3.A2.A2.3C3.A4.2A$4.3A8.5A$13.2A4.A$2A.A.2A7.A2.2A$A.2A
.A8.A.A$5.A3.A2.A.A.A$5.2A2.4A.2A$13.A$11.A.A$11.2A!


EDIT 2: C-to-G in a new direction:

x = 31, y = 27, rule = LifeHistory
15.A$15.3A$18.A$17.2A$17.5B$19.B2AB$18.BA2BAB$17.3B2A2B$17.7B$16.7B$
16.7B$15.9B$14.3B3C5B$13.6BC5B$12.4BCB2C4B.2B$11.5B2C8B2A.2A$10.17BA.
2A$9.17B.A$8.4B2.8B.2BA.A$7.4B4.B2.2B4.B2A$6.4B12.4B$5.4B13.2A$4.4B
15.A$3.4B13.3A$2.4B14.A$.4B$4B!


EDIT 3: A way to remove one of the parity constraints on my G4 receiver, though it's totally nonspartan:

x = 69, y = 65, rule = B3/S23
64bo$4b2o56b3o$4b2o39bo15bo$17bo8b2o17b3o13b2o4b2o$15b3o9bo20bo18bo$3b
2o9bo11bo20b2o16bobo$2bo2bo8b2o10b2o37b2o$3bobo$bobobobo$obobobobo19bo
$bo2bo2bo19b3o$2b2ob2o18b2o2bo$3bobo19bo2bo3b3o$3bobo22bobo4bo$4bo8bo
12bo8bo$12bobo4bo7b2o5b2o$12bobo4bo8bo$13bo5bo9bo3bo$31bo$15b3o$58b2o$
58b2o22$58b2o$58b2o$15b3o2$13bo5bo$12bobo4bo28bo$12bobo4bo26b2obo$4bo
8bo31bo4bo$3bobo23b2o18bo$3bobo23b2o14b4o$2b2ob2o$bo2bo2bo$obobobobo$b
obobobo$3bobo$2bo2bo8b2o10b2o37b2o$3b2o9bo11bo20b2o16bobo$15b3o9bo20bo
18bo$17bo8b2o17b3o13b2o4b2o$4b2o39bo15bo$4b2o56b3o$64bo!
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby thunk » March 29th, 2016, 1:52 am

Conduits update (finally)!

I sincerely apologize for the tardiness.

Changes from the previous version (4 Feb):
--A few new conduits added (not that many, and some of them were borderline cases).
--Several catalysts tweaked to reduce bounding box/cell count.
--Layout changed to six columns.
--Many, many tpyos fixed.
Attachments
Conduits-old-30Mar2016.zip
Individual conduit files
(158.97 KiB) Downloaded 115 times
Conduit Collection 30Mar2016.rle.gz
The big board
(115.28 KiB) Downloaded 126 times
Last edited by thunk on March 29th, 2016, 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby dvgrn » March 29th, 2016, 4:43 am

thunk wrote:Conduits update coming in a few days: I was just about ready to update, then I noticed quite a few labels were erroneous (so that's what the script was for...)

I sincerely apologize for the tardiness.

Sounds great! Extra-sincere thanks for taking over the maintenance of the collection, and it's not like you're really on a set schedule here.

The next step I'm pondering (but will probably avoid for a while yet, thanks to continuing Life Lexicon work) is a compatibility matrix. Now that the names are standardized reasonably well for all these elementary conduits, which ones actually connect to which?

Hersrch had a confusing-but-useful section in the data for each conduit, saying either "this conduit only connects to (specific list)", or "this conduit connects to any conduit except for (specific list)". I think for the sake of simplicity it might be worth avoiding the "except for" syntax, and just make simple positive lists.

Hersrch also supported extended compatibility lists -- strings of three or four or more conduits that either worked when you wouldn't expect them to (due to a custom weld) or couldn't be made work even though they technically fit together (no matter how cleverly you welded -- usually due to an inedible output glider).

That's a lot of information to sort out for all these elementary conduits. Still, it would be pretty entertaining to put together a script that stuck together all pairs of elementary conduits that looked promising, test them out by dropping in Signal #1 and seeing if Signal #2 appeared at the right time... and throw all the failing cases into a big folder for some welding expert to look at.

Hopefully the number of failing cases won't be too large. There's usually no need to include anything where an active cell of a catalyst in one conduit overlaps an active cell in the reaction envelope of another catalyst. There are rare exceptions, where a catalyst just suppresses some junk object, and a spark happens to delete that junk cleanly... but it's probably best to catalogue that kind of thing as a separate new elementary conduit.
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby Kazyan » March 30th, 2016, 2:29 am

Pi-to-B:

x = 38, y = 28, rule = LifeHistory
11.2A6.2A11.2A$11.A7.A7.2A2.A.A$12.3A.2A.A7.A3.A4.A$14.A.A.A9.3A.5A$
9.2A5.BA3.3B6.A.A$8.A.A4.4B.6B4.ABAB3A$8.A4.7B.10B2ABA2.A$3.A.2A.2A
21B.2B2.2A$3.2A.A.22B$6.A2.21B$6.2A2.20B$9.21B$10.19B$10.15B.5B$10.
10BDB2D5.2A$6.2B.11B3D6.A$5.16BDB7.3A$4.21B7.A$4.22B$4.21B$4.6B3C10B$
4.6BCBC9B$2.2A6BCBC8B$.A.A17B$.A4.3B.11B$2A5.B4.8B$12.6B$14.4B!
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby gmc_nxtman » April 21st, 2016, 7:34 pm

Partial E-to-B with an extra (maybe snarkable) blinker:

x = 9, y = 9, rule = LifeHistory
7.2A$7.2A4$A$A.A$3A$.A!


E-to-G that may or may not ever have an input:

x = 21, y = 25, rule = LifeHistory
7.A$7.3A$10.A$9.2A9$8.A$8.A.A$8.3A8.2A$9.A9.2A4$2.2A$.A.A$.A11.2A$2A
11.A$14.3A$16.A!


EDIT: As a bonus, here is another weird conduit component:

x = 14, y = 26, rule = LifeHistory
A$3A$3.A$2.2A10$.A$.A.A$.3A8.2A$2.A9.2A6$6.2A$6.A$7.3A$9.A!


And a sad little transparent block that can't be made to do anything useful.

x = 14, y = 23, rule = LifeHistory
A9.2A$3A7.2A$3.A$2.2A7$.A$.A.A$.3A8.2A$2.A9.2A6$6.2A$6.A$7.3A$9.A!
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby Scorbie » April 30th, 2016, 10:48 am

Reporting negative results for the tandem g7 receiver search:

Bait:
Block and pi precursors.

Catalysts added:
block, tub, barge, transp. block/hive/ship/loaf/tub/pond, eater, ship+eater, block+eater,
hook with tail, dual eater, bookend on pedestal, BTS, eater2.

Timing constraints:
2 catalysts ~ gen 50 (one of them could be transparent)
1 catalyst ~ gen 70 (opaque)
1 catalyst ~ gen 80 (opaque)
1 catalyst ~ gen 90 (opaque)
==================
5 catalysts, at most one of them transperant.

No results were close to usable.

Here are the precise input patterns:
1) this and pi derivatives:
bb..aa..............
bb..a.a.............
....a...............
........a...........
......a.............
..........a.........
........a...........
............a.......
..........a.........
.....aaa......a.....
.....a......a.......
......a..a......a...
..............a.....
........a..a......a.
................a...
..........a..a......
....................
............a..a....
....................
..............a..a..
....................
................a..a
....................
..................a.

2) this and pi derivatives:
bb...............
bb...............
.................
.................
.aa..............
.a.a.............
.a...............
.....a...........
...a.............
.......a.........
.....a...........
.........a.......
.......a.........
..aaa......a.....
..a......a.......
...a..a......a...
...........a.....
.....a..a......a.
.............a...
.......a..a......
.................
.........a..a....
.................
...........a..a..
.................
.............a..a
.................
...............a.

3) this (didn't search for hf derivatives):
bb..............
bb..............
................
................
aa..............
a.a.............
a...............
....a...........
..a.............
......a.........
....a...........
........a.......
......a.........
.aaa......a.....
.a......a.......
..a..a......a...
..........a.....
....a..a......a.
............a...
......a..a......
................
........a..a....
................
..........a..a..
................
............a..a
................
..............a.


Here's scorbie.list which I tried to balance between being economic and comprehensive:
# Catalyst files, improved by Scorbie

##Block
2C$AC!
CA$2C!

##Tub
.A$A.C$.C!
.C$C.A$.A!

##Barge
.C$C.A$.A.C$2.C!
2.C$.A.C$C.A$.C!

##Long Ship
##Ignored for now.
#2C$C.A$.A.C$2.2C!
#2.2C$.A.C$C.A$2C!

##Transp. Block
2C$2C!

##Transp. Beehive
.2C$C2.C$.2C!
.C$C.C$C.C$.C!

##Transp. Loaf
.2C$C2.C$C.C$.C!
.2C$C2.C$.C.C$2.C!
2.C$.C.C$C2.C$.2C!
.C$C.C$C2.C$.2C!

##Transp. Boat
.C$C.C$.2C!
.C$C.C$2C!
2C$C.C$.C!
.2C$C.C$.C!

##Transp. Ship
2C$C.C$.2C!
.2C$C.C$2C!

##Transp. tub
.C$C.C$.C!

##Transp. Pond
.2C$C2.C$C2.C$.2C!

##Eater 1
CA$A$.3A$3.A!
2.AC$.A.A$.A$2A!
A$3A$3.A$2.AC!
2.2A$2.A$A.A$CA!
CA$A.A$2.A$2.2A!
2.AC$3.A$3A$A!
2A$.A$.A.A$2.AC!
3.A$.3A$A$CA!

##Block + Eater
2C$2A2.CA$4.A.A$6.A$6.A.A$7.AC2.2A$11.2C!
11.2C$7.AC2.2A$6.A.A$6.A$4.A.A$2A2.CA$2C!
5.AC$5.AC3$4.AC$5.A$2.3A$.A$.CA3$CA$CA!
CA$CA3$.CA$.A$2.3A$5.A$4.AC3$5.AC$5.AC!

##Ship + Eater
10.2A$10.C.C$11.2C$7.AC$6.A.A$6.A$4.A.A$4.CA$2C$C.C$.2A!
.2A$C.C$2C$4.CA$4.A.A$6.A$6.A.A$7.AC$11.2C$10.C.C$10.2A!
.2C$A.C$AC$$3.CA$3.A$4.3A$7.A$6.AC$$9.CA$8.C.A$8.2C!
8.2C$8.C.A$9.CA$$6.AC$7.A$4.3A$3.A$3.CA$$AC$A.C$.2C!

##Hook with tail
2A.A$.A.3A$A5.A$.3A.A$3.A.2A!
2.A.A$.A.2A$.A$2A.2A$3.A$2A.A$A.A!

##Dual eater
3.2C$3.A.A$.A.A.3A$A.2A4.A$A4.2A.A$.3A.A.A$3.A.A$4.2C!
4.2C$3.A.A$.3A.A.A$A4.2A.A$A.2A4.A$.A.A.3A$3.A.A$3.2C!
3.2A$2.A2.A$3.A.A$C3A.2A$C6.C$.2A.3AC$2.A.A$2.A2.A$3.2A!
3.2A$2.A2.A$2.A.A$.2A.3AC$C6.C$C3A.2A$3.A.A$2.A2.A$3.2A!

##Bookend on pedestal
6.2C$4.C2.A$4.3A$.C$.6A$6.C$.3A$A2.C$2C!
2C$A2.C$.3A$6.C$.6A$.C$4.3A$4.C2.A$6.2C!
7.AC$3.CA.A.C$4.A.A$4.A.AC$.CA.A$2.A.A$C.A.AC$CA!
CA$C.A.AC$2.A.A$.CA.A$4.A.AC$4.A.A$3.CA.A.C$7.AC!

##BTS
2.2C.C$3.A.3A$.A.A4.A$A.2A.2A.A$A4.A.A$.3A.A$3.C.2C!
3.C.2C$.3A.A$A4.A.A$A.2A.2A.A$.A.A4.A$3.A.3A$2.2C.C!
3.2A$2.A2.A$C2.A.A$C3A.AC2$CA.3AC$.A.A2.C$.A2.A$2.2A!
2.2A$.A2.A$.A.A2.C$CA.3AC2$C3A.AC$C2.A.A$2.A2.A$3.2A!

##Eater2
2C.A$2C.3A$6.A$2A.2A.A$.A.2A.2A$.A$2.3A.2C$4.A.2C!
4.A.2C$2.3A.2C$.A$.A.2A.2A$2A.2A.A$6.A$2C.3A$2C.A!
Best wishes to you, Scorbie
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby gmc_nxtman » April 30th, 2016, 12:47 pm

Is there anything that can salvage this 100-tick transparent block?

x = 14, y = 19, rule = LifeHistory
2A$2A10$.3A$3.A$.3A$10.2A$10.A.A$12.A$2.2A8.2A$2.2A!
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby thunk » May 4th, 2016, 1:50 am

Conduit Collection 13Apr2016.rle.gz
(117.28 KiB) Downloaded 125 times
For some inexplicable reason, I decided to get obsessed in somehting completely different.

But I had the foresight to update the Collection with contributions from AbhpzTa through 13 April. I don't think there's been anything worthy of inclusion since then.

See you in June! :p
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conduits-old-13Apr.zip
(162.8 KiB) Downloaded 159 times
"What's purple and commutes?
The Evanston Express."
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby gmc_nxtman » May 11th, 2016, 10:14 pm

A possibly new H->Pi, HF134P:

x = 42, y = 55, rule = LifeHistory
9.D3.D.5D2.D3.3D5.D2.4D$9.D3.D.D5.2D2.D3.D3.2D2.D3.D$9.D3.D.D6.D6.D2.
D.D2.D3.D$9.5D.3D4.D4.2D2.D2.D2.4D$9.D3.D.D6.D6.D.5D.D$9.D3.D.D6.D2.D
3.D4.D2.D$9.D3.D.D5.3D2.3D5.D2.D10$21.2A$22.A$20.A$20.5A$24.A7.A$18.
4AB7.3A$18.A2.AB6.A$19.6B4.2A$B11.2A6.11B$2B11.A7.8B$3B10.A.AB2.10B$
4B4.2A4.2AB.13B$.4B4.A5.16B$2.4B3.A.AB3.15B$3.4B3.2AB.18B$4.4B4.22B$
5.4B3.23B$6.4B3.22B$7.4B.23B$8.26B$8.25B3D$8.2BC24BD$7.3BCBC4B.15B3D$
8.2B3C4B2.15B$7.5BC4B2.15B$6.20B.6B$5.4B6.11B2.4B$4.4B8.10B3.B.3B$3.
4B8.B.10B4.B2A$2.4B8.A2B.8B5.BA.A$.4B8.A.A11B5.B2A$4B10.AB.10B3.4B$3B
14.10B3.2A$2B16.7B6.A$B17.6B4.3A$16.2AB9.A$15.A.AB$15.A$14.2A!


Unfortunately, it doesn't currently connect to anything.

If there is a way to eat that beehive with more clearance, then it may have an input.

EDIT: And H->R:

x = 45, y = 55, rule = LifeHistory
7.D3.D.4D4.D5.D3.3D2.4D$7.D3.D.D3.D2.2D4.2D2.D3.D.D3.D$7.D3.D.D3.D3.D
3.D.D2.D3.D.D3.D$7.5D.4D4.D2.D2.D3.4D.4D$7.D3.D.D2.D4.D2.5D5.D.D2.D$
7.D3.D.D3.D3.D5.D6.D.D3.D$7.D3.D.D3.D2.3D4.D3.3D2.D3.D10$20.2A$21.A$
19.A$19.5A$23.A7.A$17.4AB7.3A$17.A2.AB6.A$18.6B4.2A$11.2A6.11B$B11.A
7.8B11.A$2B10.A.AB2.10B9.3A$3B4.2A4.2AB.13B6.A$4B4.A5.16B6.2A$.4B3.A.
AB3.15B3.5B$2.4B3.2AB.18B2.3B$3.4B4.27B$4.4B3.28B4.2A$5.4B3.26B5.A$6.
4B.27B2.BA.A$7.32B.B2A$7.34B$7.2BC31B$6.3BCBC4B.24B$7.2B3C4B2.21B$6.
5BC4B2.20B$5.20B.12B$4.4B6.11B2.2BD8B$3.4B8.10B3.B3D2.3B$2.4B8.B.10B
4.D$.4B8.A2B.8B$4B8.A.A11B$3B10.AB.10B$2B14.10B$B16.7B$17.6B$15.2AB$
14.A.AB$14.A$13.2A!
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Postby simsim314 » May 12th, 2016, 3:29 am

@gmc_nxtman looks good, the conduits are still somewhat "squeezed" and hard to attach to anything, have you check possible connections?
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