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Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby dvgrn » July 20th, 2015, 1:02 am

gmc_nxtman wrote:Here is an unoptimized p92 x66 half on HWSS gun based on that, and some of my own quadrants...

Looks good! Yeah, it turns out that that edge-shooter I gave you is definitely overkill for this particular four-glider salvo. Here are a few more edge-shooter and inserter options that might work a little better:

x = 292, y = 275, rule = B3/S23
150b2o5b2o$146b2o2b2o5b2o2b2o$60b2o84b2o13b2o$43b2o15bobo$43b2o17bo$
60b3o2$47bo$45bo3b2o$44b2obob2o9b3o58b2o$43b2o6bo10bo7b2o49b2o$44b2obo
b2o9bobo7b2o80b2ob2o$37bo7bo3b2o9b2o89bo5bo$32bo3bo10bo$17b2o12bo8b2o
108bo7bo$17b2o12bo2b2o5bo108bo2bobo2bo$32b2o5bobo6b2o100b3o3b3o$33b3o
3b2o7b2o$122bo5bo$33b3o3b2o80b3o3b3o$32b2o5bobo78b2obo3bob2o$31bo2b2o
5bo2b2o$31bo8b2o2b2o$32bo3bo86bo3bo$37bo85bo3bo40b2o$150b2o16b2o$150b
2o$40b2o120bo5bo$40b2o119b3o3b3o$40b2o113b2o4bo2bobo2bo$41b2o79bo32b2o
6b2ob2o$40b3o80bo$41bob2o5b2o70bo$42bo2b2o3b3o$41b3o8bo66b5o37bo7bo$
40bo4b2o2b2o14bobo42b2o7b5o38bobobobo$40bo8b2o15b2o42b2o6b3o2b2o3b2o
32bobobobo$25b2o13bo2bo6bo5bobo7bo51b3ob2o4b2o31bob2ob2obo$25b2o14bobo
7bo5b2o59b2ob2o38b2o5b2o$57bo62b2o4$140bo$138b2o$139b2o3$45b2o$45bo64b
3o3b3o14bobo$46b3o61bo2bobo2bo15b2o$48bo61b2obobob2o15bo26b2o$35b3o72b
2o5b2o42b2o$35bo2bo$34bo3bo101b2o$29b2o4bo2b2o99bobob2o8b2o106b2o5b2o$
28bobo6bo74bo3bo21b2o4bo9b2o101b2o2b2o5b2o2b2o$28bo6b2o17b2o56b2ob2o
22b2o2bo6b5o7bo94b2o13b2o$27b2o5b3o17bo33bobo20bobobobo20b4o8b4o8b3o$
34b3o15bobo34b2o22bobo22b2o2b3o20bo$47b2o3b2o25bobo7bo22b2ob2o26b2o5b
4o8b3o$46bo33b2o31bobo34b5o7bo$47bobo30bo32bobo38b2o$48bo65bo38b2o106b
2o5b2o2$130b2o128bo9bo$117bo12b2o128bo3bobo3bo$115b2o143bo3bobo3bo$
116b2o143bobo3bobo$262bo5bo$54b2o$49b2o2bo2bo$34b2o13bobo2b2o61bo$33bo
bo16b2o61b2o$33bo19bo62b2o$32b2o16bo2bob2o$49bobob2obo$50bobo77b3o3b3o
$51bo2b2o73bo3bobo3bo$52b2ob3o70bo3b2ob2o3bo27bo11b2o97b2o$58bo69bob2o
5b2obo26bobo10b2o79b2o16b2o$52b2ob3o53bobo16bo7bo20bo3b2o2bobo91b2o$
45bo6b2obo56b2o36b2o6bobo2bo2b2ob2o$44bobo55bobo7bo37b2o6bobo3bobo$43b
2obo56b2o54bob4o2bob2o$35b2o8bo57bo57bo3bobob2o93bo8bo5bo$36bo123bo3bo
bo95b2o8b3o3b3o$36bobo8b2o87b3o20bo3bobo97b2o6bo2b2ob2o2bo$37b2o8b2o
13b2o72bobo20b2o3bo73b2o31bo3bobo3bo$62b2o71bo3bo88b2o7b4o32bobobobo$
73bo33bo27bo3bo37b3o46b2o2bo6bobobo$72bo2bo32b2o67bo2bo45b6o4b3ob2o28b
2ob2o3b2ob2o$57b2o2b2o8b5o10b2o19b2o21b2o4b3o42bo34bo9b4o5bob2o33bo7bo
$57b2o2b2o7b2ob3o10b2o42b2o45bo2bo33b3o18bob2o$71bob2o86bo15b3o7b2o24b
o$4bo67b2o85b2ob2o22bo2bo24b3o18bob2o$2bo3b2o9b2o16bo120b5o26b2obo25bo
9b4o5bob2o$b2obob2o9bobo7b2o6b2o35b2o8b2o6b2o48b2o14bo2bo30bo35b6o4bo
2bo$2o6bo10bo7b2o5bobo5bo28bob2o6bo3bo4b2o48b2o14bo2bo30b2o34b2o2bo6b
2o$b2obob2o9b3o21bobo17b2o7b2ob3o5b3ob3o69b2o16b2o51b2o7b2o$2bo3b2o33b
obo17b2o8b5o9bobo88bo26b2o10bo3bo$4bo37bo29bo2bo9bo2bo3bo80b3o25b5o7b
2obobob2o$39b3o31bo11b3o4bo11b2obo53b2o10bo19b2o5bo4bo6bob2o3b2obo$17b
3o19bo22b2o21b2o12b3o2b2o2bo3b2o47bobo29b2o5bo2b3o5bo2bo5bo2bo$2o17bo
42b2o31b2o3b2o6bo3b2o20bobo26bo36b2o2bo7bob2o3b2obo51b2ob2o$2o15bobo
81b3o3b2o26b2o26b2o37b2o9b2obobob2o53bobo$17b2o67bo5bo9bo3bo18bobo7bo
79bo3bo55bobo$30bo7b2o46bo5bo33b2o61b2o11b2o30bo41bo$29b2o6bo2bo12b2o
47bo3bo19bo62b2o9b2o2bo29bobo4bo47b2o$28bo8bo2b2o11b2o46b3o3b2o91bo2b
3o14b2o12b2o3b2o48b2o$29b2obo4bo2bo44b2o13b2o6bo91bo4bo14b2o18b2o$30b
3o6bo45b2o12b3o2b2o2bo72b2o18b5o52bo16b2o$104b2obo72bo10b2o10b2o52b2o
6b2o7bobo13b2o$30b3o6bo90bo36b2o10bo2b2o5b2o3bo62bobo5b2o7bo15b2o$27bo
b2obo4bo2bo90b2o34b2o10bo2bo6bo4bo79b3o$26bo10bo2b2o88b2o47bobo7b2o3bo
$26bo3bo6bo2bo139b2o9b2o$27b4o7b2o$180b2o92b3o$179bobo92bo15b2o$179bo
2bo11b2o78bobo13b2o$159bo19bo2b2o10b2o79b2o$160bo19bo73b2o7bo$158b3o
20b2o70bo2bo6b2o24b2o$252b2o2bo8bo23b2o$242bo10bo2bo4bob2o$240b3o11bo
6b3o$157bobo79bo$158b2o80b3o11bo6b3o$148bobo7bo83bo10bo2bo4bob2obo$
149b2o60bo40b2o2bo10bo$149bo61bobo4bo34bo2bo6bo3bo$211b2o3b2o36b2o7b4o
$217b2o3$153bo$154b2o$153b2o6$182bo$183bo$181b3o4$180bobo$181b2o$171bo
bo7bo$172b2o14bo$172bo15bobo4bo$188b2o3b2o$194b2o3$176bo$177b2o$176b2o
9$170b3o$172bo$171bo21b2o62b2o5b2o$193bobo57b2o2b2o5b2o2b2o$188b2o3bo
59b2o13b2o$188bobo$188bo2$128b2o5b2o$124b2o2b2o5b2o2b2o$124b2o13b2o3$
259b2ob2o$258bo5bo2$257bo7bo$129bo5bo121bo2bobo2bo$128b3o3b3o120b3o3b
3o$127b2o2bobo2b2o$126bob4ob4obo$128b3o3b3o$127b3o5b3o$147b3o$149bo$
148bo67b2o$216bobo56b2o$135bo75b2o3bo40b2o16b2o$134bobo74bobo43b2o$
133b2ob2o73bo57bo5bo$133b2ob2o130b3o3b3o$268bo2bobo2bo$134b3o9b2o122b
2ob2o$128b2o5bo10b2o$128b2o5bo121bobo$257b2o$258bo9bo7bo$269bobobobo$
140bo5bo122bobobobo$139b3o3b3o120bob2ob2obo$138bo2b2ob2o2bo119b2o5b2o$
138bo3bobo3bo$140bobobobo2$137b2ob2o3b2ob2o$139bo7bo3$239b2o$239bobo$
234b2o3bo24b2o13b2o$234bobo27b2o2b2o5b2o2b2o$234bo33b2o5b2o2$208b4o7b
2o51b2o5b2o$207bo3bo6bo2bo46b2o2b2o5b2o2b2o$135b2o13b2o55bo10bo2b2o45b
2o13b2o$135b2o2b2o5b2o2b2o56bob2obo4bo2bo$139b2o5b2o63b3o6bo2$211b3o6b
o$210b2obo4bo2bo$209bo8bo2b2o11b2o$210b2o6bo2bo12b2o$211bo7b2o2$272bo
7bo$272b2o5b2o$272b3o3b3o$274b2ob2o$274bo3bo$262b2o7b2o7b2o$262bobo6b
2o7b2o$262bo12bobo$271bo2bo3bo2bo$272b3o3b3o3$261b2o$261b2o16b2o$279b
2o9$262bo5bo$261b3o3b3o$260b2o2bobo2b2o$259bob4ob4obo$261b3o3b3o$260b
3o5b3o8$257b2o13b2o$257b2o2b2o5b2o2b2o$261b2o5b2o!
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby gmc_nxtman » July 20th, 2015, 11:54 pm

Very nice! Here is a slight difficulty with a P92 LWSS gun. Probably something right in front of my nose again.

#C Psst.. don't look at the rest of the pattern..
x = 199, y = 205, rule = B3/S23
24b2o12b4o$24b2o12bob2o5bo$38bo6b2o2bo$39b2o5b6o$52bo6bo$39b2o5b6o6bob
o$38bo6b2o2bo8bobo$b2o35bob2o5bo9b2ob2o$b2o22b3o10b4o$23b5o$9bo13b4obo
$2o6b2o13b2o2b2o$2o5b2o10bobob2ob2o$8b2o2b2o6bo2b4o$25bo2$54b3o5b3o$8b
2o2b2o41b3o3b3o$2o5b2o16b2o26bob4ob4obo$2o6b2o15b2o27b2o2bobo2b2o$9bo
45b3o3b3o$56bo5bo$b2o$b2o35bo$39b2o$38b2o5$68b2o7b3o$67bo2bo4bo4bo$67b
o2bo4bo5bo$67bo3bo8bo9bo$68b2o8b2o10b3o$93bo$68b2o8b2o10b3o$71bo8bo9bo
$65b2o8bo5bo22bo$12b2o51bo9bo4bo22bobo$11bobob2o8b2o9b2o5b2o24bo7b3o
23bobo$10b2o3b2o9b2o8b2o4bobo21bo2bo32b2ob2o$11bobob2o5b5o17bo$12b2o8b
4o2$22b4o41bo$22b5o34bo6bo$9b2o15b2o34b2o2b3o$9b2o14b2o34b2o$43bo56b3o
3b3o$44bo3bo50bo2bo3bo2bo$39b2o8bo53bobo$39bo5b2o2bo53bobo$39bobo5b2o
11bo42bobo$40b2o3b3o12b3o36bo2bo3bo2bo$63bo36bo7bo14b3o$40b2o3b3o12b3o
58b2obob2o8b3o8b2o$39bobo5b2o11bo60b2o5bo5bo3bo8b2o$35b2o2bo5b2o2bo71b
2obob2o5bo4bo$35b2o2b2o8bo57bo15b3o7bo3bo$44bo3bo56b2ob2o$43bo89bo3bo$
105b2ob2o23bo4bo$105bo3bo10b2o12bo3bo31b2o$106b3o11b2o14b3o31b2o$100b
2o$100b2o63b2obo$160b3o2b2o2b4o$90bo22b2o46b2o6b4o$84bo6bo19b2ob2o46b
3o3b2o$85b2o2b3o19bo2bo27bo20bo3bo$84b2o25bo2bo13bo13bobo$112b2o14b3o
11b2o19bo3bo$131bo30b3o3b2o$112b2o14b3o15b2o13b2o6b4o$111bo2bo13bo17b
2o12b3o2b2o2b4o$111bo2bo50b2obo$111b2ob2o$113b2o55b2o$170b2o3$174b2o
10bo3bo$115bo56b5o7b2obobob2o$116bo47b2o5bo4bo6bob2o3b2obo$114b3o47b2o
5bo2b3o5bo2bo5bo2bo$171b2o2bo7bob2o3b2obo$173b2o9b2obobob2o$186bo3bo$
173b2o$171b2o2bo$113bo57bo2b3o14b2o$107bo6bo56bo4bo14b2o$108b2o2b3o57b
5o$107b2o41b2o22b2o$149bo2b2o$148b6o$141bo8b4o15b2o$139b3o27b2o$138bo
45bo$139b3o40b3o$141bo8b4o27bo$148b6o11b2o15b3o$149bo2b2o11b2o17bo4bo$
150b2o35b3o$186bo$138bo47b2o$139bo$137b3o$194b2ob2o$195bob2o$183bo11bo
$181bobo3b2o4b3o$182b2o3b2o3bo3b2o$136bo55b4o2bo$130bo6bo40b2o15bob2o$
131b2o2b3o39bobo12b3o2bo$130b2o45bo13bo5bo$176b2o14b5o$194bo10$161bo$
162bo$160b3o2$168bo$168bobo$168b2o2$159bo$153bo6bo6b3o$154b2o2b3o6bo2b
o$153b2o12bo$167bo$168bobo5$139bo13bo$138bobo11bobo$138bobo11bobo$137b
2ob2o9b2ob2o2$135bob2ob2obo$135bob2ob2obo$134b2o7b2o$134b2o7b2o$134b3o
5b3o4b3o3b3o$136b3ob3o5bo2bo3bo2bo$138bobo7b2obo3bob2o$135bo2bobo2bo$
134bo2bo3bo2bo$135b2o5b2o7$148b2o$146b3o3b2o$147b2o2bo10b2o$149b2ob2o
9bo$149bobobo7bo$149bo8b5o$135b2o22bo$135b2o21b2ob2o$159bobo14b2o$159b
obo14bobo$160bo12b2obobo$173bobobo$175bo$174b2o$159bo13b3o$160b2o11b3o
$159b2o6b3o3b3o$167bo2bo3b2o$167bo7bo$167bo5bobobo$168bobo2b2obobo$
176bobo$176b2o6$162b3o$160bo3bo$149bo9bo4bo$147b3o9bo3bo$146bo$147b3o
9bo3bo$149bo9bo4bo$160bo3bo8b2o$162b3o8b2o!
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby dvgrn » July 21st, 2015, 12:59 am

gmc_nxtman wrote:Very nice! Here is a slight difficulty with a P92 LWSS gun. Probably something right in front of my nose again.

#C Psst.. don't look at the rest of the pattern..

Well, the LWSS and the SW-most glider in the salvo are just plain mutually incompatible. It's possible to add the glider after the LWSS goes by instead... not sure if that's any use, though:

x = 125, y = 208, rule = LifeHistory
13.2A$13.2A17.A$31.A.A$31.A.A$30.2A.2A3$13.3A3.3A$12.A2.A3.A2.A$12.A
3.A.A3.A$11.2A.A.A.A.A.2A$11.2A.2A3.2A.2A$12.3A5.3A3$28.2A5.2A$28.A.
2A.2A.A12.3A$29.A.A.A.A11.2A.A.2A8.3A8.2A$29.A.A.A.A11.2A5.A5.A3.A8.
2A$28.A7.A10.2A.A.2A5.A4.A$49.3A7.A3.A2$59.A3.A$30.2A.2A24.A4.A$28.A
2.A.A2.A9.2A12.A3.A31.2A$28.3A3.3A9.2A14.3A31.2A$2.2A25.A5.A$2.2A16.
2A69.2A.A$11.A4.A3.2A6.2A56.3A2.2A2.4A$10.A17.2A57.2A6.4A$10.A.2A2.A
28.2A41.3A3.2A$11.A.A.2A27.A23.A20.A3.A$12.A3.A26.A2.2A20.A.A$13.2A
28.A2.A21.2A19.A3.A$43.A.A10.A31.3A3.2A$44.2A10.3A13.2A13.2A6.4A$59.A
12.2A12.3A2.2A2.4A$44.2A10.3A32.2A.A$2.3A3.3A32.A.A10.A$.A3.A.A3.A31.
A2.A49.2A$A3.2A.2A3.A30.A2.2A48.2A$A.2A5.2A.A31.A$2.A7.A34.2A2$41.A$
42.A$40.3A2$62.2A4.A2.2A12.2A$61.2A6.2A.A12.2A$62.A.A6.A$4.2A.2A54.2A
4.3A$5.A.A31.A$5.A.A32.A22.2A4.3A$6.A31.3A21.A.A6.A$58.2A.2A6.2A.A$
58.2A2.2A4.A2.2A11.A$83.3A.2A$82.A3.A$82.A7.A9.3A$83.A2.2A3.A6.A3.A$
84.3A2.2A6.A4.A6.A$97.A3.A7.3A$112.A$97.A3.A7.3A$97.A4.A6.A$84.2A12.A
3.A$64.A19.2A14.3A$65.A$63.3A2$71.A$71.A.A$71.2A2$62.A$63.A6.3A$61.3A
6.A2.A$70.A$70.A$71.A.A5$42.A13.A$41.A.A11.A.A$41.A.A11.A.A$40.2A.2A
9.2A.2A2$38.A.2A.2A.A40.A$38.A.2A.2A.A41.A$37.2A7.2A38.3A$37.2A7.2A$
37.3A5.3A4.3A3.3A$39.3A.3A5.A2.A3.A2.A33.A$41.A.A7.2A.A3.A.2A31.A.A$
38.A2.A.A2.A47.2A$37.A2.A3.A2.A37.A$38.2A5.2A39.A$84.3A6$51.2A$49.3A
3.2A$50.2A2.A10.2A$52.2A.2A9.A$52.A.A.A7.A$52.A8.5A$38.2A22.A$38.2A
21.2A.2A44.A$62.A.A14.2A30.A$62.A.A14.A.A27.3A$63.A12.2A.A.A$76.A.A.A
$78.A39.A$77.2A37.A.A$62.A13.3A38.2A$63.2A11.3A29.A$62.2A6.3A3.3A30.A
$70.A2.A3.2A28.3A$70.A7.A$70.A5.A.A.A$71.A.A2.2A.A.A17.2A$79.A.A17.2A
$79.2A6$65.3A$63.A3.A$52.A9.A4.A16.2A$50.3A9.A3.A17.2A$49.A$50.3A9.A
3.A32.A$52.A9.A4.A30.3A$63.A3.A8.2A19.2A2.A$65.3A8.2A19.A.4A$97.A4.A$
84.2A11.A2.2A$83.A2.A2.2A8.2A$84.2A2.A.A$86.2A7.A8.2A$86.A8.A.A6.A$
83.2A.A2.A5.2A8.3A$83.A.2A.A.A16.A$87.A.A$84.2A2.A$82.3A.2A27.2A$81.A
33.2A$82.3A.2A$84.A.2A3$103.2A$103.A$101.A.A$91.2A3.2A3.2A13.A5.A$90.
A.A3.A.A16.3A3.3A$89.2A7.2A14.2A.A3.A.2A$90.2A5.2A$81.2A8.A5.A$81.2A
9.5A20.A3.A$93.3A21.A3.A$94.A3$97.A$96.A.A17.A$96.A.A16.A.A$97.A11.2A
3.2A.2A$98.3A8.2A3.A3.A$100.A12.3A.3A$114.A3.A$104.2A8.A3.A$104.2A9.A
.A4.2A$116.A5.2A2$105.A5.A$104.3A3.3A$104.A.2A.2A.A$103.2A7.2A$103.2A
7.2A$103.3A5.3A$105.3A.3A$107.A.A$104.A2.A.A2.A$103.A2.A3.A2.A$104.2A
5.2A13$111.2A$111.2A!
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby gmc_nxtman » July 21st, 2015, 11:15 am

#C Rotating things 90º helps.
#C Bounding box could still be improved
#C Squareguns, shuttle stabilizations, are welcome
#C Note that the spaceships barely fit through the barrel and HWSSes
#C minorly interact with it at the end.
x = 248, y = 285, rule = B3/S23
11b2o5b2o$7b2o2b2o5b2o2b2o$7b2o13b2o7$47b2o$47b2o$13bo3bo$13bo3bo3$10b
2obo3bob2o$11b3o3b3o$12bo5bo2$41bo5bo$40b3o3b3o$40bob2ob2obo$42b2ob2o$
42b2ob2o$2o40b2ob2o$2o16b2o$2o16b2o$3o3b3o$obo3bobo$o2bobo2bo$2b2ob2o$
46b3o$19bo27b2o$17bobo28b2o$18b2o27bob2o$2o5b2o38b3o8b2o$2obobob2o31b
2o4bo4bo6b2o$o2bobo2bo31b2o5b2obo$3o3b3o38b4o2$45b2o$45b2o8$2b2ob2o44b
2o5b2o$3bobo44bo2bo3bo2bo$3bobo47b2ob2o$4bo47bobobobo$18bo33bobobobo$
17bo2bo6b2o21bo9bo$16b5o5b3obo11bo6bo11bo$15b2ob3o4bo4b3o7bobo$7bo8bob
2o6b3obo10b2o8bob2ob2obo$5b3o9b2o11bo22b2ob2o$4bo21b5o21bo5bo$5b3o9b2o
7bo2b3o8bo12b2ob2o$7bo8bob2o6bo14b2o11bobo$15b2ob3o19b2o12bobo$16b5o
34bo$17bo2bo$18bo19b2o$38b2o8$110b2o3b2o$108b3obo2b2o$107bo4bo$32bo5bo
68bo2b2ob4o23bo$31bobo3bobo25bo40b2obobobo2bo22bobo$30bo3bobo3bo22bobo
41bobobobo$30bo3bobo3bo23b2o41bobob2o20b2o2bo5bo$30bo9bo67bo24b2o5bo$
137b2o3b2o$31b2o5b2o23bo57b2o$64b2o46b2o7bo$63b2o47b2o5bobo$33b2ob2o
81b2o16b2o3b2o$34bobo103bo$33b2ob2o84b2ob2o10bo5bo$34bobo86bobo$33b2ob
2o85bobo13bobo$34bobo87bo15bo$34bobo64bobo$35bo11bo53b2o6b2o$46b2o54bo
7bo22bo7bo$45b3obo9b2o46b3o22bobo5bobo$44b2o13b2o46bo27bo3bo$35bo9b2o
85bo2bo3bo2bo$33b3o10bo86bobo3bobo$32bo91bo10b2ob2o$33b3o10bo10bo65b2o
7b2ob2ob2ob2o$35bo9b2o8b2obo29bo34bobo6b2o2bobo2b2o$44b2o8b2ob3o26bobo
44b3o3b3o$45b3obo5bo2bo28b2o45bo5bo$46b2o8b2o159b2o5b2o$47bo165b2o2b2o
5b2o2b2o$86bo35b2o89bo15bo$64bo5bo16b2o33b2o16b2o$63b3o3b3o5bo8b2o52b
2o$62b2obo3bob2o5b2o$77b2o2$65bo3bo$65bo3bo147b3o3b3o$216bo9bo$51bo5b
2o157bo3bobo3bo$51bo5b2o22b2o134b3o3b3o$50b3o28b3o134bo5bo$79b2o2bo38b
3o3b3o$49b2ob2o25b4o38bo3bobo3bo$49b2ob2o26bo39bo3b2ob2o3bo$50bobo67bo
b2o5b2obo$51bo70bo7bo$65b2ob2o$66bobo42bo$66bobo40bobo$67bo42b2o$49b3o
5b3o$50b3o3b3o176b2o$48bob4ob4obo48bo107b2o16b2o$49b2o2bobo2b2o50b2o
105b2o$50b3o3b3o41bo8b2o13b2ob2o$51bo5bo43b2o22bobo$100b2o23bobo$126bo
92bobo$219b2o8bo5bo$61bo158bo7b3o3b3o$60bo3bo162b2o2bobo2b2o$59bob5o
161bo3bobo3bo$58bob5o39bobo76b4o5b6o29bob2o3b2obo$58bobo44b2o76bob2o7b
4o29b2o7b2o$68b2o35bo66bo10bo7bob2o$50b2o16b2o100b3o11b2o5b2o$50b2o
117bo$170b3o11b2o5b2o$172bo10bo7bob2o$183bob2o7bo$134bo48b4o5b3o$132bo
bo$133b2o3$132bo$133b2o95b2ob2o$123bo8b2o97bobo$124b2o65bo39bobo$61bo
7bo53b2o65bo41bo$59b2ob2o3b2ob2o118b3o3bobo46b2o$95bo13bo86b2o47b2o$
62bobobobo25bobo11bobo86bo$60bo3bobo3bo9bo13bobo11bobo$60bo2b2ob2o2bo
8b3o11b2ob2o9b2ob2o102b2o5b2o8b3o12b2o$61b3o3b3o9bob2o44bobo83b2o6b2o
8bo3bo10b2o$62bo5bo11b3o45b2o85bo15bo4bo$80b2o46bo103bo3bo2$63b2ob2o
164bo3bo$64bobo164bo4bo$64bobo164bo3bo10b2o$65bo165b3o12b2o$157bo$155b
obo$105b2o5b2o42b2o51b2o2bo4b2o25b2o$104bo2bo3bo2bo94bob2o6b2o24b2o$
105bo2bobo2bo84bo11bo6bobo$90b2obo3bob2o7bobo44bo40b3o11b3o4b2o$90bo2b
o3bo2bo5b3ob3o43b2o37bo$91b3o3b3o4b3o5b3o31bo8b2o39b3o11b3o4b2o$104b2o
7b2o32b2o19bo29bo11bo6bobo$104b2o7b2o31b2o19bo41bob2o6b2ob2o$105bob2ob
2obo53b3o3bobo33b2o2bo4b2o2b2o$105b3o3b3o59b2o$85b2o19bo5bo61bo$85bobo
b2o$87bob2o$86bo25b2o36bobo37bo$86b2ob2o21b2o37b2o34b5o$71b2o14bobo4bo
56bo32bob2o3b2o$70bobo14bobo3bo89bo7bo$70bobob2o12bo4b3o88bobo2b2o$71b
obobo111bo$73bo$72bo2bo$72bo117b2o$72bo3bo109b4ob2o$72bo113b6o$72bo2bo
111b4o$73bo$71bobobo$70bobob2o6bo$70bobo9bobo60b2o62b4o$71b2o9b2o60bob
o46b2o14bo2b2o6b2o$108b2o36bo46b2o15bo2b2o5b2o$108b2o62b3o35bo2bo$172b
o38b2o$167b3o3bo$77b3o27b2o6b3o14b2o33bo43b2o$75b2obob2o8b3o14b2o6bo3b
o12b2o34bo41bo2bo$75b2o5bo5bo3bo22bo4bo72b2o15bo2b2o28b2o$75b2obob2o5b
o4bo6bo16bo3bo72b2o14bo2b2o30bo$77b3o7bo3bo7b3o107b4o$102bo13bo3bo113b
2o$87bo3bo7b3o13bo4bo6b2o2b3o99bo2bo7b2o$87bo4bo6bo7b2o6bo3bo6bo3b2o2b
o20b2o75b2o2bo7b2o$74b2o12bo3bo14b2o6b3o9bo7bo18bobo76bo2bo$74b2o14b3o
38bo3bo18bo79bo$129b2ob3o21bo58bo$108b2o23bo11b2o2bo3bo3bo55b2o19bo$
108b2o35bob2o7b2o56b2o17bo2bo$146bo72b2o11b2o2bo7b2o$146b3o4b2o64b2o
12bo2bo7b2o$234b2o$146b3o4b2o$146bo97bo$131b2o12bob2o7b2o85b2o$131b2o
12b2o2bo3bo3bo$156bo38b3o$154bo40bo$154bobo33b3o3bo$155b2o33bo$191bo4$
183b2o46b2o5b2o$166b2o15bobo41b2o2b2o5b2o2b2o$166b2o17bo41b2o13b2o$
183b3o2$170bo$168bo3b2o$167b2obob2o9b3o$166b2o6bo10bo7b2o$167b2obob2o
9bobo7b2o37bo5bo$168bo3b2o9b2o46b3o3b3o$170bo59b2o2bobo2b2o$229bob4ob
4obo$231b3o3b3o$230b3o5b3o$218b3o$218bo$219bo2$232bo$231bobo$230b2ob2o
$230b2ob2o2$220b2o9b3o$220b2o10bo5b2o$232bo5b2o4$221bo5bo$220b3o3b3o$
219bo2b2ob2o2bo$219bo3bobo3bo$221bobobobo2$218b2ob2o3b2ob2o$220bo7bo
11$216b2o13b2o$216b2o2b2o5b2o2b2o$220b2o5b2o!
#C [[ GRID THEME 3 AUTOSTART ]]


Does anybody have a small p4 glider filter?
Last edited by gmc_nxtman on August 9th, 2015, 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby dvgrn » July 21st, 2015, 3:13 pm

gmc_nxtman wrote:
#C Rotating things 90º helps.
#C Bounding box could still be improved
#C Squareguns, shuttle stabilizations, are welcome
#C Note that the spaceships barely fit through the barrel and HWSSes
#C minorly interact with it at the end.

There are certainly still lots of options for repacking all these pieces. Below 200x200 I think I'm just going to declare victory and go home:

x = 199, y = 198, rule = B3/S23
148bo$68bo11b2o70b2o$67bobo10b2o69bo2bo12b2o$59bo3b2o2bobo76bo4bo2b2o
11b2o$50b2o6bobo2bo2b2ob2o72bo3bo3bo2bo$50b2o6bobo3bobo74b7o5bo$59bob
4o2bob2o69bo$61bo3bobob2o70b7o5bo$60bo3bobo3b2o71bo3bo3bo2bo$59bo3bobo
5b2o73bo4bo2b2o10bo23b2o$59b2o3bo5b2o79bo2bo10bo24b2o$49b3o19bo2b2o76b
2o10bo4bo$25b2o3b2o17bo2bo19b4o88bo5bo12b2o$25b2o2bob3o14bo3bo20bo2b2o
86bo18bobo5b2o$29bo4bo13bobob2o110bo7bo12bo5b2o$25b4ob2o2bo14b2ob2o
111bo3b2obo10b3o$o8b2o14bo2bobobob2o14b3o34b2o77b2o$9b2o17bobobobo51bo
2bo$29b2obobo13bo38b2obo$33bo6b2o4b5o39bo92b3o$40b2o4bo2bo40b2o74b2o
17bo5b2o$19b2o24b2o2b3o23b2o89b2o15bobo5b2o$20bo7b2o15b3o2b2o24bo36bo
69b2o$20bobo5b2o21bo21b3o32bo3bo$21b2o25bob2o9b2o10bo19b2o12bo8b2o72b
2o$48b3o10bobo29b2o12bo2b2o5bo35bo36b2o$49bo13bo44b2o5bobo34bo15b2o5b
2o$63b2o23b3o18b3o3b2o35b3o9b2o2b2o5b2o2b2o$88bo75b2o13b2o$89bo19b3o3b
2o$2b3o3b3o97b2o5bobo$2bo2bobo2bo20b2o74bo2b2o5bo2b2o$2b2obobob2o20bo
75bo8b2o2b2o$2b2o5b2o21b3o8bo64bo3bo$20b2o12bo6bobo40b2o27bo$19bobo20b
2o23b2o15bobo$21bo45b2o17bo$84b3o$4b2ob2o159b2o5b2o$2bo2bobo2bo60bo95b
o2bo3bo2bo$2bobo3bobo58bo3b2o93bo2bobo2bo$2b3o3b3o57b2obob2o9b3o84bobo
$2b2o16b2o45b2o6bo10bo7b2o73b3ob3o$2b2o16b2o46b2obob2o9bobo7b2o71b3o5b
3o$2b2o65bo3b2o9b2o81b2o7b2o$71bo95b2o7b2o$168bob2ob2obo$168b3o3b3o$
93b2o3b2o30bo38bo5bo$91b3obo2b2o29bo$90bo4bo33b3o48bo5b2o$14bo5bo44bob
o22bo2b2ob4o68b2o9bobo4b2o$13b3o3b3o44b2o21b2obobobo2bo68b2o8bo3bo$12b
2obo3bob2o43bo23bobobobo81bo3bo$90bobob2o81b3ob3o$91bo86bo3bo$15bo3bo
46bo111b2ob2o$15bo3bo21bo22bobo37b2o73bobo$41bo2b2o19b2o28b2o7bo75bo$
40bo5bo5b2o41b2o5bobo$41bobo2b2o4b2o48b2o22bob2o36bo$28bo12bo3b2o78bo
2b2o2b3o12b2o16bo$26b3o14b3o79bo6b2o13b2o16b3o$25bo78bo18b4o3b3o48bo3b
o$26b3o14b3o40bo17b3o14b3o3bo3bo49bo3bo$28bo12bo3b2o38bo21bo12bo20bo5b
o$41bobo2b2o37b3o18b2o13b3o3bo3bo9bo5bo$15b2ob2o20bo5bo45b2o29b4o3b3o
45b2obo3bob2o$16bobo22bo2b2o47bo31bo6b2o3b2o11b2o27b3o3b3o$16bobo22bo
26bo21b3o15b2o15bo2b2o2b3o45bo5bo$17bo51bo20bo17b2o16bob2o11bo5bo$67b
3o38bobo30bo5bo$109bo$109bo6b2o$88bobo25bobo$89b2o27bo62b2ob2o$56b2o5b
2o24bo28b2o62bobo$56bob2ob2obo117bobo$57bobobobo41bo54b2o21bo$57bobobo
bo25bo14bobob2o50bobo33b2o$56bo7bo22bobo14bobobobo49bo35b2o$80bo7b2o
13b2obobobo2bo71b2o$78bobo23bo2b2ob4o24bo48bo$18bo13bo46b2o23bo4bo26b
2o5bo28b2o10b2o2bo8b2o$17bobo11bobo23b3ob3o41b3obo2b2o23b2o3bo29b2o11b
o2bo8b2o$17bobo11bobo25bobo45b2o3b2o28b3o41bobo$16b2ob2o9b2ob2o22bo5bo
122b2o$58b2ob2o$15bo5bo37bobo22bo90b2o9b2o$14b3o3b3o36bobo23bo87bo3b2o
7bobo$13b2o2bobo2b2o36bo22b3o87bo3b2o6bo2bo8b2o$13b2ob2ob2ob2o148bo2bo
8b2o2bo8b2o$16b2ob2o145bobo3b2o13bo$14bobo3bobo5b3o3b3o28b3o85b2o2bobo
8bo3b2o11b2o$13bo2bo3bo2bo4bo2bobo2bo30bo13b2o69b3obo3bo3bo10bo20b2o$
16bo3bo7bo7bo29bo14bobo67b2o6bo3bo3bo6bo21b2o$13bobo5bobo54b2obobo65bo
2bob5o5bo$14bo7bo6bo5bo42bobobo28bobo33b3o3b3o12bo3bo$30b2ob2o45bo31b
2o32bo19bobo3bobo$80b2o30bo34b3o3b3o$21bo58b3o66bo2bob5o$20bobo57b3o
68b2o6bo13b2o$80b3o29bo39b3obo3bo12b2o$18bo5bo55b2o28bobo40b2o2bobo$
21bo7bo2bobo45bo22bo7b2o$18b2o3b2o2b2obo47bobobo18bobo11bo$26b2ob4o3bo
41b2obobo18b2o9b2o5bo$27bo13b2o29b3o6bobo30b2o3bo30bo45bo$27b3o3b2o3bo
bobo28bo2bo6b2o36b3o29b2o44b2o$18b2o3b2o4bo6bobobo33bo69bo2b3o2bo37bo
2b3o2bo$14b2o5bo19bo32bo70b3o4bo38b3o4bo$14b2o2bo5bo12b2ob2o29bobo33bo
37b2o2b3o39b2o2b3o$38bobo67bo$20bobo15bobo65b3o39b2o44b2o$15b2o4bo17bo
106bo4bo40bo4bo$15b2o135bo45bo$42b3o101bo5bo39bo5bo$44bo56bo45b6o40b6o
$9bo5bo21bobo3bo57b2o$8b3o3b3o21b2o60bobo$8bob2ob2obo21bo80b2o$7b2o7b
2o70bo29b2o$7b2o7b2o68b5o14b2o7b2o4bo34bo$7b3o5b3o67bo5bo13bo7b2o29b2o
8b2o15b2o$9b3ob3o69bo2b3o12bobo9bo28b2o7b2o16b2o$11bobo70b2obo15b2o49b
2o2b2o$8bo2bobo2bo67bo2b4o$7bo2bo3bo2bo67b2o3bo3b2o72bo$8b2o5b2o70b3o
4b2o70b5o$49bo37bo66b2o2b2o5b2obo2bo$50b2o20b3o9b2obo56b2o7b2o9bo7bo
21b2o$49b2o21bo2bo8b2ob2o55b2o8b2o9b2obo2bo22b2o$72bo82bo10b5o$72bo95b
o8b3o3bo$73bobo19b2o78b5o2bobo10b2o$96bo77b2o3b2o3bo10b2o$21b2o70b3o
22bo56b2o3bo2bo$21b2o70bo6b2o14b5o55bo3b3o$101bo13bo5bo$18b2o81bobo12b
3o2bo54bo3b3o$16b2ob2o5b2o74b2o3b3o9bob2o52b2o3bo2bo$8b2o16b2o32bobo
43bob2o6b4o2bo47b2o2b2o3b2o3bo10b2o$8b2o6bob4o39b2o43bo3bo5bo3b2o48b2o
3b5o2bobo10b2o$17b2o42bo45b3o7b3o22b2o16bo16b3o3bo$107b3o9bo21b2o17bob
o$19b2obo96bob2o14b2o4bo16b2o32b2o$20b2o96b2ob2o13b2o56b2o$138bo34b2o
5b2o$169b2o2b2o5b2o2b2o$110b2o57b2o13b2o$89bo20bo$19bo7bo59b5o14b2o3b
3o$18bo2bo3bo2bo43bo13bo5bo13bo6bo$22bobo48b2o11bo2b3o12bobo$22bobo46b
o2bo10b2obo15b2o$22bobo46bo2bo10bo2b4o$18bo2bo3bo2bo45bo2bobo6b2o3bo3b
2o32bo3bo5bob2o$19b3o3b3o30b2o2bobo8bo3bo10b3o4b2o20b2o9bo5bo4bobobo$
57b3obo3bo3bo11bo6bo28b2o9bo9bo4bo$56b2o6bo3bo3bo5bo3bo2b2obo39b2o3bo
5bobobo$54bo2bob5o5bo11bo3b2ob2o15bo24b3o6bob2o$52b3o3b3o12bo3bo26b2o$
51bo19bobo3bobo24bobo23b3o39b3o5b3o$52b3o3b3o35b2o30b2o3bo38bo2b2ob2o
2bo$54bo2bob5o33bo30bo15b2o27b3o3b3o$21b2ob2o30b2o6bo13b2o14b3o31bo5bo
9b2o28bo5bo$22bobo32b3obo3bo12b2o14bo34bo3bo31b2o$22bobo33b2o2bobo99b
2o$23bo142bo$148b2o$148b2o$162b2o$134b2o26b2o16b2o$124b2o6b2ob2o12b2o
29b2o$124b2o6bo2bo13b2o$132bo2bo$133b2o2$120b2o11b2o$120b2o10bo2bo$
101b2o29bo2bo13b2o$101b2o29b2ob2o12b2o$134b2o$112b3o7b2o$100b2o9bo4bo
4bo2bo23b2o$100b2o8bo5bo4bo2bo23b2o12b2o5b2o$111bo8bo3bo37bob2ob2obo$
112b2o8b2o39bobobobo$163bobobobo$112b2o8b2o38bo7bo$111bo8bo$100b2o8bo
5bo8b2o$100b2o9bo4bo9bo$112b3o7bo39bo2bobo2bo$122bo2bo33b2o4bobo4b2o$
101b2o55bo15bo$101b2o55b2obobo5bobob2o$162b2o5b2o!

It would certainly be nicer to avoid all the silly extra Snarks, though. There are still several areas that could be improved -- LWSS generator placement in the SW, the two northernmost guns in the center, etc. -- but the returns may be starting to diminish.
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby gmc_nxtman » July 21st, 2015, 3:17 pm

Very nice! Nice improvement down to 200x200. I have barely any experience with herschel technology, so I wouldn't be able to improve in that field. I think that changing some of the guns to squareguns with filters could definitely help. I haven't found any filters capable of doing the job, though.

Here is the squaregun (I found it a long time ago, it could improve bounding box)

x = 45, y = 39, rule = B3/S23
5$27bo$10bo16b2o$10b2o16b2o$27b2o4$27b2o$28b2o7bo$27b2o8b2o$27bo4$22b
2o$21bo2bo12bo$21bo2b2o11b2o$21bo2bo$23bo2$23bo$21bo2bo$21bo2b2o$21bo
2bo$10bobo9b2o$8b3ob2o$7bo$8b3ob2o$10b2o2bo$13b2o!
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby Kazyan » July 21st, 2015, 3:34 pm

There still hasn't been a weekender gun, has there? On that topic, I checked Catagolue and found a 6-glider synthesis of xs14_4aaraa4:

x = 23, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
3bo$b2o$2b2o11bo$14b2o$bo6b3o3bobo$b2o7bo$obo6bo3$11bo$11b2o$10bobo$
21bo$20b2o$20bobo!


...which shaves a glider off the weekender synthesis. I don't know how that affects the repeat time, though.
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby gmc_nxtman » July 21st, 2015, 3:43 pm

Here are two probably useless predecessors for xs15_ci5diczw11:

x = 34, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
31bo$2bo27b3o$bob2o28bo$2o3bo23bo3bo$bo4bo21bo$7bo19bo5bo$4b2obo18bo6b
o$6b2o17b2o5b2o$26bo3bob2o$27bo2$25bo$24bobo$5b2o17bobo$5b2o18bo!


Also, what is the current repeat time/cost for the new glider syntheses?
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby dvgrn » July 21st, 2015, 5:35 pm

gmc_nxtman wrote:Also, what is the current repeat time/cost for the new glider syntheses?

The exact initial synthesis that Kazyan posted would increase the repeat time to 525 I think. But it's not difficult to avoid that conflict using a different blinker recipe, which gets us back to 475 ticks, the same repeat time as the 88-glider recipe:

#C 87 gliders makes a weekender, repeat time 475
x = 462, y = 467, rule = B3/S23
444bobo$444b2o$19bobo423bo9bo$20b2o433bobo$20bo11bo422b2o$33b2o$32b2o$
16bo$17bo426bo$15b3o426bobo$444b2o$4bobo432bo13bobo$5b2o431bo14b2o$5bo
432b3o13bo$35bobo7bo$36b2o8bo$36bo7b3o372bobo$419b2o$420bo4$420bo$49bo
368b2o$50b2o367b2o18bo$49b2o388bobo$439b2o2$411bo$41bo369bobo$39bobo
369b2o$40b2o$46bo361bo$44bobo361bobo14bobo$45b2o361b2o15b2o$53bo372bo$
51bobo$52b2o2$37bo18bo351bo12bo$38b2o17b2o347b2o11b2o$37b2o17b2o349b2o
11b2o2$403bo$46bo354b2o9bo$47bo354b2o7bo$45b3o363b3o2$57bobo339bobo$
58b2o329bo9b2o$58bo329bo11bo$388b3o$21bobo$22b2o$22bo38bobo331bobo$62b
2o331b2o$62bo333bo$67bobo$68b2o$68bo$72bo$73b2o$72b2o4$86bobo$87b2o$
87bo2$80bobo294bo$81b2o294bobo$81bo5bo289b2o$85bobo$86b2o349bobo$437b
2o$438bo$359bobo$359b2o$84bobo273bo$85b2o300bo$85bo301bobo$387b2o$88bo
275bo$89bo273bo$87b3o273b3o20$361bo$361bobo$361b2o2$100bobo$101b2o$
101bo14bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo
9bo9bo9bo7$326bo$325bo$139bo185b3o$116bo23bo195bobo7bo$138b3o195b2o$
152bo184bo$150bobo$151b2o$134bo$135b2o188bobo$134b2o189b2o$124bo201bo
8bo$125bo195bo12bo$116bo6b3o193b2o13b3o9bo$155bo164b2o$156bo6bo$154b3o
7b2o135bo$163b2o135bo$300b3o5$116bo183bo45bo$169bo130bobo$167bobo130b
2o18bobo$168b2o150b2o$321bo2$292bobo$158bobo131b2o$159b2o132bo$159bo$
116bo46bobo123bobo15bo38bo$164b2o123b2o15bo$164bo125bo15b3o$170bobo$
171b2o$171bo2$157bo18bo111bo12bo$155bobo16bobo111bobo10bobo$156b2o17b
2o111b2o11b2o$116bo229bo$283bo$164bo118bobo8bo$165b2o116b2o7b2o$164b2o
127b2o$177bo103bo$178bo101bo$176b3o92bo8b3o$269b2o$141bo128b2o$116bo
25bo203bo$140b3o38bo95bo$182bo93bo$180b3o93b3o$187bo$188bo$186b3o2$
192bo$190bobo$116bo74b2o153bo3$206bo$207bo$205b3o2$200bo$201bo56bobo$
199b3o56b2o$116bo87bobo52bo86bo$205b2o112bo$205bo112bo$318b3o$241bo$
240bo$204bo35b3o$205bo$203b3o62bobo$268b2o$116bo152bo76bo$206bo39bo$
207b2o35b2o$206b2o37b2o7$116bo229bo10$116bo229bo3$242bobo$242b2o$243bo
$220bo$221bo$219b3o10b2o$225b2o4b2o$116bo107bobo6bo112bo$226bo4$220b2o
5b2o$203b2o14bobo6b2o$202bobo16bo5bo$204bo33b2o$237b2o$116bo122bo106bo
$194b3o$196bo2b2o$195bo4b2o$199bo6$116bo69b2o158bo$187b2o53b3o19b2o$
186bo55bo21bobo$243bo20bo4$260b3o9b2o$260bo10b2o$261bo11bo$116bo229bo
2$176b3o101b3o$178bo101bo$177bo103bo2$173bo111bo$173b2o109b2o$172bobo
109bobo2$116bo229bo3$166b2o123b2o$160b2o5b2o121b2o5b2o$161b2o3bo125bo
3b2o$160bo137bo4$116bo229bo9$311b2o$116bo14b2o177b2o34bo$132b2o178bo$
131bo3$135bo171b2o$135b2o169b2o21bo$134bobo171bo19b2o$328bobo2$116bo
195b3o31bo$312bo$313bo6$341bo$340b2o$116bo223bobo3bo3$128b2o200b2o$
127bobo21b3o176bobo$129bo23bo176bo$152bo2$119b3o216b3o$121bo216bo$116b
o3bo218bo6bo3$130b2o$131b2o$130bo5$116bo229bo$126b3o$128bo$127bo$314bo
$313b2o$313bobo3$144b3o$116bo29bo15bo183bo$145bo16b2o$161bobo3$314b3o$
314bo$315bo34b3o$106b2o242bo$107b2o242bo$106bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo
9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo9bo4$101b2o5b3o$84b2o16b
2o6bo$85b2o14bo7bo$84bo271b3o$356bo$76bo280bo$76b2o$75bobo2b3o$82bo$
81bo6$67b3o292bo$69bo291b2o20b2o$68bo292bobo18b2o$384bo3$380bo$379b2o
9b3o$379bobo8bo$391bo2$58bo341bo$58b2o339b2o$57bobo339bobo3$54b2o347b
2o$53bobo347bobo$55bo347bo5$47b3o359b3o$41b3o5bo359bo5b3o$43bo4bo361bo
4bo$42bo373bo13$429b3o$12b3o414bo$14bo415bo$13bo3$16b2o407b3o$15bobo
407bo21b2o$17bo408bo20bobo$447bo$432bo$431b2o$431bobo7$459b2o$459bobo$
459bo3$9b2o22bo415b2o$10b2o21b2o413b2o$9bo22bobo415bo2$bo456bo$b2o454b
2o$obo454bobo4$11b3o$13bo$12bo5$8bo$8b2o$7bobo2$432b2o$432bobo$432bo2$
26bo$26b2o$25bobo15b2o$42bobo$44bo2$434bo$433b2o$433bobo!

Looks as if p480 is a really good gun period to aim for. Among other things, simsim314's p120 gun plus a couple of semi-Snarks, plus extra Snarks or a syringe if needed, makes an incredibly flexible glider source:

x = 247, y = 67, rule = LifeHistory
39.A109.A$37.3A107.3A$36.A109.A77.A18.A$28.2A6.2A16.2A11.A70.2A6.2A
16.2A11.A46.3A6.2A6.3A$28.A.A23.2A10.A.A69.A.A23.2A10.A.A48.A5.2A5.A$
29.A36.A.A2.2A3.A62.A.A34.A.A2.2A3.A39.2A12.2A$65.2A.2A2.A2.A.A6.2A
54.3A.A30.2A.2A2.A2.A.A$34.2A33.A.A3.A.A6.2A55.A4.A32.A.A3.A.A$34.2A
5.2A22.2A.A2.4A.A65.A3.A4.2A22.2A.A2.4A.A40.2A$41.2A22.2A.A.A3.A71.A
5.A22.2A.A.A3.A42.2A3.2A$69.A.A3.A66.2A7.A27.A.A3.A46.2A$70.A.A3.A67.
A35.A.A3.A$18.2A4.2A45.A3.2A51.2A4.2A6.A38.A3.2A$18.2A4.2A102.2A4.2A
7.A56.A$143.A54.3A13.A7.A$39.2A108.2A46.A16.3A5.3A$15.2A22.A.A20.2A
61.2A22.A.A20.2A11.D11.2A18.A7.A$15.2A24.A20.2A61.2A24.A20.2A9.3D30.
2A6.2A$41.2A4.2A102.2A4.2A24.D.D$18.2A7.2A17.A2.A78.2A26.A2.A23.D$18.
2A8.2A15.A.2A79.2A17.A7.A.2A$8.A18.A17.A48.2A49.A.A7.A$7.3A34.2A48.2A
50.2A6.2A$7.4A48.2A108.2A$59.A109.A36.2A$60.3A107.3A33.2A$7.4A51.A10.
2A97.A10.2A$7.4A61.A.A107.A.A$9.A45.2A15.A53.2A37.2A15.A$55.A15.2A56.
A35.A15.2A10.2A$53.A.A70.A2.A33.A.A28.A$53.2A72.2A34.2A26.3A9.2A$.A
109.A15.2A62.A11.A$A.A35.2A70.A.A13.A2.A18.2A54.A$2A36.2A11.2A57.2A
14.A21.2A53.2A$127.3A$2A5.2A39.2A.2A57.2A5.2A38.2A$A6.2A39.A2.A3.2A
53.A6.2A38.2A6.2A$.A46.A.A4.2A54.A53.2A$2A8.2A98.2A8.2A$10.2A108.2A$
43.A109.A$42.A.A34.A72.A.A$7.2A33.2A6.2A26.A38.2A33.2A6.2A$7.2A41.A
27.3A36.2A41.A$51.3A107.3A$53.A109.A18$213.A$212.A$212.3A!

Luckily p480 is slow enough that the high-clearance Fx119-based glider inserter (right side) won't cause nearly as many problems -- though the next recipe follows along quickly enough that you still have to be careful when the last of the gliders are being added.
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby The Turtle » July 21st, 2015, 5:48 pm

I'm never tried making a gun, so I have a few questions.
What is the best edge shooter?
How is the gun assembled? (human, script, etc.)
How are customary Hershel conduits made, like ones with a specific period or direction?
Only two things are constant: change and the speed of light.
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby gmc_nxtman » July 21st, 2015, 5:56 pm

There are many, many methods of making guns. For a simple enough gun, it's fairly trivial to do so. Example:

A LWSS gun has a synthesis that only requires 3 gliders, one from each direction. You can simply aim three gosper glider guns (or any other gun) together so that their gliders make LWSSes. The same thing applies for larger guns -
to an extent. Once the glider salvos are tight enough, it becomes much harder. The three methods I mainly use are

• Edge shooters
• Reflection
• GIGs (glider injection gates)

If you don't know what those are, have a look at the pages in LifeWiki.

For choice of periodic, stable or mobile circuitry simply depends on preference, however stable technology seems to be getting more attention recently. Most popular periods for periodic circuitry are P8, P30, and P46.

Mobile is a whole entirely different topic, usually c/2 is used.
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby dvgrn » July 21st, 2015, 6:25 pm

The Turtle wrote:I'm never tried making a gun, so I have a few questions.
What is the best edge shooter?
How is the gun assembled? (human, script, etc.)

It depends on the problem to be solved. I posted a couple of the most standard edge shooters in my last post, attached to p480 guns. Also look at (and maybe contribute to) this edge-shooter thread.

There's a script by simsim314 that can help with shotgun assembly, but so far most guns are still assembled manually. Usually doing things manually allows pieces to be packed a few cells closer together than an automatic assembler could manage.

The Turtle wrote:How are customary Hershel conduits made, like ones with a specific period or direction?

Herschel conduits in general take on the period of the signals traveling through them. There are some p4/5/6/7/8/15 Herschel conduits that include oscillators, but there's usually no need to worry about those special cases.

So to make a custom Herschel conduit, just try attaching conduits to each other. If you're using Patterns/Signal-Circuitry/Herschel-conduit-stamp-collection.rle, the idea is to overlap the white-and-red output Herschel in one conduit with the yellow input Herschel of another conduit, making sure that the catalysts don't touch each other, and that the active areas don't overlap any conduits.

(And don't copy out any of the gray cells, or very strange things may happen. That conduit collection really needs a new update...!)

Then, to get source signals for your new Herschel conduit, attach a syringe at the input end, and feed the syring with a gun of the appropriate period, as in the example in my last post.
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby The Turtle » July 21st, 2015, 8:12 pm

dvgrn wrote:So to make a custom Herschel conduit, just try attaching conduits to each other. If you're using Patterns/Signal-Circuitry/Herschel-conduit-stamp-collection.rle, the idea is to overlap the white-and-red output Herschel in one conduit with the yellow input Herschel of another conduit, making sure that the catalysts don't touch each other, and that the active areas don't overlap any conduits.

(And don't copy out any of the gray cells, or very strange things may happen. That conduit collection really needs a new update...!)

Then, to get source signals for your new Herschel conduit, attach a syringe at the input end, and feed the syring with a gun of the appropriate period, as in the example in my last post.

Is there any algorithmic way to, for example, use existing Hershel conduits to build another conduit the translates a Hershel by X, Y?
Only two things are constant: change and the speed of light.
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby dvgrn » July 21st, 2015, 10:33 pm

The Turtle wrote:Is there any algorithmic way to, for example, use existing Hershel conduits to build another conduit the translates a Hershel by X, Y?

Yes, there's a search utility for that, called Hersrch. Karel Suhajda wrote it over a decade ago, and it's been updated to include new conduits discovered up until the end of 2012 -- but nobody has tried to tackle the project of adding the unlimited number of new discoveries since then.

This is because new discoveries haven't been limited to starting with a Herschel and ending with a Herschel. The new BRx46B discovered by Michael Simkin, for example, implies an infinite number of perfectly good working Herschel conduits of the form H->B + N*(BRx46B) + B->H. (H = Herschel, B = B heptomino, R = R pentomino, etc.) None of these can be handled by Hersrch unless each one is added as a separate conduit.

Something that's a little confusing at first about the elementary conduits is that not all of the Herschel conduits are shown. Many H->H conduits are really something like H->R->B->H, so they're not elementary.

You can run Hersrch searches to solve all kinds of signal connection problems. There's a syntax for specifying input and output Herschels' X, Y, T, and orientation -- very powerful, though it takes some getting used to. The December 4 Hersrch package includes a series of examples with an increasing number of variables, to walk you through how to set up these kinds of searches.
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby gmc_nxtman » July 22nd, 2015, 12:41 pm

Here is a newbie's take on a P184 Loafer gun:

Code: Select all
#C [[ THUMBNAIL AUTOSTART ZOOM 2 THEME 6 LOOP 1104 GRID STEP 5 ]]
x = 248, y = 207, rule = B3/S23
205b3o14b2o$205bo3bo12b2o$198bo6bo4bo$196b3o7bo3bo$195bo$196b3o7bo3bo
7b3o$198bo6bo4bo5b2obob2o$205bo3bo5bo5b2o22b2o$205b3o8b2obob2o22b2o$
218b3o$227bob2o$226bo2b2o2b3o10b2o$226bo6b2o11b2o$190bo3bo31b2o3b3o$
189bo5bo9b2o21bo3bo$195bo9b2o$178bo2bo8bo3b2o32bo3bo$178b4o9b3o32b2o3b
3o$221b2o3bo6b2o11b2o$138b2o11bo26b4o9b3o27b2o3bo2b2o2b3o10b2o$138b2o
10bobo25bo2bo8bo3b2o15bobo13bob2o$150bobo2b2o3bo3bo11bobo16bo15b2o$
149b2ob2o2bo2bobo2b3o9b2o11bo5bo16bo32b2o$153bobo3bobo5bo22bo3bo50b2o$
118bo30b2obo2b4obo5b2o$117bobo29b2obobo3bo$117bobo33bobo3bo84b2o$116b
2ob2o33bobo3bo83b2o$155bo3b2o$235b2o3bo$220b2o13b3obob2o2b2o$142b2o12b
obo61b2o13b3o4bo2b2o$141b2o13bobo3bo75bo3bo$142b2o11b2o82b3o$131b2o13b
o9bo59b3o$130bo2bo24bobobo53bo22b3o$129bob2o22bo2bob3o56bo18bo3bo$129b
o27bo3bo16b2o39bo15b3o4bo2b2o$114b3o3b3o5b2o48b2o12bobo40b3obob2o2b2o$
114bo2bobo2bo20b2o47b2o22bo2bo15b2o3bo$114b2obobob2o20bo49bo12bo3bo6bo
$114b2o5b2o21b3o58bo5bo6bo25b2o$146bo10b2o52bo32b2o$156bobo29bobo6bo8b
o3b2o$156bo31b2o5b3o9b3o$155b2o32bo4bo$116b2ob2o6b2o66b3o9b3o$114bo2bo
bo2bo4b2o68bo8bo3b2o$114bobo3bobo88bo9b2o$114b3o3b3o82bo5bo9b2o$114b2o
16b2o72bo3bo$114b2o16b2o$114b2o7$126bo5bo$125b3o3b3o27bobo$124b2obo3bo
b2o26b2o6bobo$162bo6b2o$170bo$127bo3bo$127bo3bo$165bobo$165b2o$166bo$
80b2o11bo$80b2o10bobo24b2o$92bobo2b2o3bo3bo12bo$91b2ob2o2bo2bobo2b3o8b
obo$95bobo3bobo5bo7b2o$56b2o33b2obo2b4obo5b2o$56b2o24b3o6b2obobo3bo26b
2ob2o$81bo2bo10bobo3bo26bobo$81b2o2b2o9bobo3bo25bobo$81bo2bobo10bo3b2o
26bo$84bobo$56b3o3b3o$56bo2bobo2bo13bo3bo2bo12bo$55bo3bobo3bo12b2o2bo
14b2o$56bo2bobo2bo13bo3bo2bo11bobo38bobo$58bo3bo10b2o63b2o6bobo$56b2o
5b2o7bo2bo8bo22b3o29bo6b2o$55b3o5b3o5bob2o6bo22bobobobo36bo$55b3o5b3o
5bo31b2obo3bo9b2o$70b2o32bobo2b2o9b2o$85b2o15bo5bo33bobo$17bo67bo16b2o
bo2bo33b2o$16bobo17bo49b3o15b2obo35bo$16bobo16bobo24b3o23bo10b2o$15b2o
b2o15bobo24b3o33bobo$34b2ob2o22b5o32bo$60b2o3b2o30b2o$60b2o3b2o2b2o$
69b2o3$60b2o3b2o7b2o$56b2o2b2o4bobo5b2o$56b2o3b3o3b3o$33bo5bo22bobo3bo
bo$32b3o3b3o21bobo4bo$13bo7bo9b2ob2ob2ob2o26b2o$11b2ob2o3b2ob2o6b3o7b
3o25bo46bobo$115b2o6bobo$14bobobobo11bo7bo75bo6b2o$12bo3bobo3bo101bo$
12bo2b2ob2o2bo$13b3o3b3o45bo7bo$14bo5bo98bobo$39bo25b3o7b3o41b2o$38b2o
26b2ob2ob2ob2o8b2o12bo20bo$38bo4bobo21b3o3b3o9b2o12bobo$2b2o5bo27bobo
3bobo22bo5bo24b2o$2b2o5bo10b2o16b3o3b3o3b2o$8b3o9b2o10b2o5bobo4b2o2b2o
32b2obo$32b2o7b2o3b2o37bobo$7b2ob2o74bo$7b2ob2o73b2o$8bobo26b2o46b2o$
9bo27b2o2b2o3b2o37b2o$41b2o3b2o$22bo19b5o22b2ob2o$23bo19b3o24bobo$21b
3o19b3o24bobo$b3o5b3o59bo$2b3o3b3o81bobo$ob4ob4obo79b2o6bobo$b2o2bobo
2b2o81bo6b2o16bobo$2b3o3b3o31b3o5b3o48bo15bo$3bo5bo32b3o5b3o59b2o2bo4b
o$43b2o5b2o60b2obo2bob2o$45bo3bo46bobo17b2o$43bo2bobo2bo44b2o46b2o$42b
o3bobo3bo23bo20bo47bo$43bo2bobo2bo24bobo$43b3o3b3o24b2o57b2o$13b2o105b
2o12bo2bo7b2o$4b2ob2o4b2o12bo92b2o11b2o2bo7b2o$5bobo17bobo17b2ob2o65b
2o17bo2bo$5bobo18b2o18bobo4b2o59b2o19bo$6bo39bobo4bobo60bo$47bo6b3o78b
o$55b2o77bo2bo$52b2o79b2o2bo7b2o$45bo6b3o79bo2bo7b2o$46bo88b2o$44b3o
63b4o$13b3o3b3o31b2o55bo2b2o30bo$12bo2bo3bo2bo30b2o56bo2b2o28b2o$16bob
o78bo13bo2bo$16bobo76b3o14b2o$16bobo75bo$12bo2bo3bo2bo72b3o14b2o$13bo
7bo75bo13bo2bo$33b2o76bo2b2o5b2o$29b2o2b2o2b2o71bo2b2o6b2o$29bobo2bo2b
2o71b4o$30b3o$31b2o2$118bob2o20bobo54bo$15b2ob2o14b4o24b2obo2b2o18bobo
2b3o21b5o20bobo2b2o18b2o4b2o21b5o$16bobo14bo7b2o20b2o2bo2bo17bobob2o2b
o18b2o5bo18bobo3b2o18b3ob2o2bo17bobo5bo$16bobo14bo3b2o2b2o24bobo19bo2b
2obo19b7o25b2o23bobo19bob2o2bo$17bo16bo2b2o29bo25bo23b3o19bo5bo26bo24b
2o$62bo25bo24b3o51bo25bo$62b3o23b3o22b2o25bob2o23b3o22b2obo$21bo43bo
22bo2bo22bob2o24b2o26bo22bo2bo$20b2o42bo24b2o23bo2bo22bo2bo24b2o23bo2b
o$19b3obo9b2o27b2o25b2o24b2o24b2o25bo25b2o4b2o$18b2o13b2o165bobo$9bo9b
2o181bo$7b3o10bo181b2o$6bo77bo$7b3o10bo10bo47b3ob2o2b2o$9bo9b2o8b2obo
46b4o4b2o$18b2o8b2ob3o49b2o$19b3obo8bo78b2o$20b2o11b2o3b2o71b2o$21bo
12bo3b3o6b2o3bo51b2o$30b2o8b3o4b3obob2o48b5o$32bo7b3o4b3o4bo32b2o14bo
4bo3b2o$30b3o7b3o7bo3bo2bo29b2o14b3o2bo3b2o$32b3o3b3o10b3o3b3o44bo2b2o
$33b2o3b2o20bo44b2o$51b3o3b3o$50bo3bo2bo28b2o17b2o$32b2o13b3o4bo30bobo
16bo2b2o$32b2o13b3obob2o31bo16b3o2bo3b2o$47b2o3bo33bo16bo4bo3b2o$74b2o
10b3o14b5o$76bo8bo2bo15b2o$73b2o2bo7b2o24b2o$74bo2bo33b2o$64bo10bobo$
62b3o10b2o$61bo$62b3o10b2o$64bo10bobo$74bo2bo10b2o$73b2o2bo10b2o$76bo$
74b2o!


I facepalmed myself pretty hard after this one, realizing after I had done the entire thing in p92 that the repeat time was larger. I decided to place one big fiter at the end instead of blockers in front of every p92 gun.

Also, I think that in the Wiki, the pattern box should tell you what minimal repeat time of synthesis is. There should also be incremental synthesis on the side for every single synthesisable pattern.

Specifically for the newly synthesised spaceships. I enjoy making guns, and this gives me a new opportunity to create them. However, the attached synthesis file(or rawcode) in the wiki would be much more useful if it provided a full incremental on the side.
Last edited by gmc_nxtman on July 23rd, 2015, 1:16 pm, edited 14 times in total.
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby The Turtle » July 22nd, 2015, 8:22 pm

How are new spaceship syntheses discovered?
I recall here that Extrementhusiast said "to step the pattern back until it looks like something constructable", but that is a bit tricky... very, very tricky. Is it because I am not experienced enough?

EDIT:
This is the closest I got to a parent of the Turtle:
x = 14, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
2b2o9bo$4bo3b2obo$b2o3bo4bo$2b2o2bo$2bobo2b4o$o2bo$o2bo$2bobo2b4o$2b2o
2bo$b2o3bo4bo$4bo3b2obo$2b2o9bo!

Four cells are wrong. Fortunately, they are on the edge of the pattern.
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby dvgrn » July 22nd, 2015, 10:25 pm

The Turtle wrote:How are new spaceship syntheses discovered?
I recall here that Extrementhusiast said "to step the pattern back until it looks like something constructable", but that is a bit tricky... very, very tricky. Is it because I am not experienced enough?

Sure, that sounds reasonable... bearing in mind that quite possibly nobody is experienced enough to step a turtle spaceship back to something constructible.

There's a search utility for this, too, of course -- lifesrc / WLS / JLS. If you set up JLS to search for symmetric predecessors of an object the size of a turtle, it will almost always find as many as you want, and you can backtrack quite a distance:

#C result #1 (left) and result #10 (right) from symmetric backtracking search
x = 53, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
6bobo3bo31bo2bo2bo$13bo33bo3bo$4b2ob2ob3obo8bo17bob2o2b4obo$4bobo2bo
12bo7bobo9bob2o$3bo2b3o2bo9b2o2bobo2bo10bo2b2obobo$b2o2bobobob2obo10b
2ob2o9b2o2bobob4obo$o3bo4b2obo8b2obo2b3o8bo3bo5bobo$2bob3obobo3bo6b4o
3b2o3bo6bob3ob2o4bo$2bob3obobo3bo6b4o3b2o3bo6bob3ob2o4bo$o3bo4b2obo8b
2obo2b3o8bo3bo5bobo$b2o2bobobob2obo10b2ob2o9b2o2bobob4obo$3bo2b3o2bo9b
2o2bobo2bo10bo2b2obobo$4bobo2bo12bo7bobo9bob2o$4b2ob2ob3obo8bo17bob2o
2b4obo$13bo33bo3bo$6bobo3bo31bo2bo2bo!

The JDF file for this search is attached, in case you want to load it into JLS and run it, to get a feel for how the various settings work.

turtlesearch.zip
Zipped save file from JavaLifeSearch
(4.2 KiB) Downloaded 351 times

The problem is that if you let JLS do the work for you, you will almost invariably get predecessors like the ones above -- a little bigger than the originals, with a few more live cells, and therefore a little harder to synthesize. Bigger and bigger blobs of "space dust" won't do any good if we eventually want to reach a predecessor made of nothing but gliders. It's always possible that an all-gliders predecessor will turn out to exist, but the odds are billions to one that JLS will never happen to stumble on it.

If someone could come up with a way of assigning a "constructibility score" to each predecessor that JLS comes up with, and then adjust JLS to pick the highest-scoring predecessor and recursively look for the best parent to that... then we might be well on our way to a search program that automatically finds glider constructions. But defining a reliable algorithm for a "constructibility metric" is a lot easier said than done.

Here's an idea that I hadn't thought of before -- though probably someone has already tried it and it doesn't work:

What if we tried stepping back one tick at a time with JLS, looking at each step for the biggest possible empty space in the middle of the pattern, with the thinnest possible ring of live cells around it?

As the search goes back, the doughnut will inevitably get bigger. But that might be okay: if the width of the ring can be made narrow enough, and the size is big enough, then there's a lot more room to place construction gliders around the outside -- and maybe a few in the inside, too, if needed, since it would probably turn out to be possible to get quite a few gliders into position in the center, with kickbacks if nothing else.

---------------------------------

... Wild speculations like the above are known as "hand-waving", and are generally completely useless. Also, like the constructibility-metric algorithm, the program needed to automatically run a doughnut-search is called "vaporware", and there have been a lot of vaporware proposals in the last 40+ years that somehow have never become real software.

In this case, suppose that a doughnut-shaped predecessor is found. (I'm playing devil's advocate now.) At each tick back from that point, the ring will "want" to expand both toward the outside and also right back into the center again. If you strictly forbid ON cells in the center, probably most of the time JLS will simply fail to find any solutions.

When someone actually solves this problem with a real piece of software, it's going to be very very impressive...!
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby simsim314 » July 23rd, 2015, 6:02 am

dvgrn wrote:If someone could come up with a way of assigning a "constructibility score" to each predecessor


I was thinking to make huge database of millions of sparks, just by placing few SLs and colliding with glider. This should cover most of the needed sparks.

To evaluate constructability one could check correlation between the sparks and some predecessor, assuming that high correlation means "life friendly" spark, and low correlation will mean "unnatural object".

Thinking of it a bit more, one could take say 10x10 box and conduct statistics of "common life constellations in the box". Picking those that repeat many times out of some "natural soup" (glider collisions or glider with SL collisions). The score for each constellation in 10x10 will be the number of times it appeared in such natural random soup. Scoring predecessor will be by going over all 10x10 boxes that contains at least one cell, and averaging the 10x10 natural soup score over all the boxes.

The score is heuristics that evaluates how probable for some predecessor to appear in a natural GOL smoke.
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby dvgrn » July 23rd, 2015, 9:36 am

simsim314 wrote:...The score is heuristics that evaluates how probable for some predecessor to appear in a natural GOL smoke.

That sounds like the kind of thing that might possibly work. It's too bad there's only one way to find out if this approach would actually be useful... and I'm not likely to try taking on this big of a programming project at the moment.

Several years ago I spent some time pursuing a somewhat similar idea. I was thinking of writing an enumerator for all possible predecessors of an input pattern -- like JLS/WLS/lifesrc -- but it would naturally generate high-scoring candidates first (and you'd probably stop after the first N candidates, and not bother to go through all the rest.)

To get high-scoring candidates, take some workable tile size, say 3x3, and pre-calculate all possible 5x5 predecessors. Really just run through all 5x5 patterns and build a database of which 3x3 centers they're associated with. There are only 2^25 = 33554432 5x5 patterns, even without reduction by symmetry, so maybe better to be more ambitious and try 3x4. 4x4 tiles would require indexing 68 billion predecessors, so that might be a little too ambitious...!

Anyway, so for each tile, you can sort the thousands of 5x5 predecessor patterns, according to some heuristic like the one you outlined. Probably bias toward lower population also, if that doesn't happen naturally.

Then pick a tile probably in the middle of the target pattern to start the search, and choose the highest-rated predecessor. Move to a neighbor 3x3 tile and place the highest-rated predecessor that matches the previously-placed 5x5 parent tile. Continue recursively (maybe in a spiral?) until a complete predecessor is found, or a contradiction is reached and you have to backtrack.

The sorting heuristic I had thought of using was intended to avoid backtracking into dead ends as much as possible, while also biasing the search toward patterns that were more likely to be constructible. So the 5x5 tiles with the largest number of 7x7 predecessors would be first in the list -- probably adjusted to prefer tiles containing still lifes, tiles containing only gliders or pieces of gliders, etc. There are way too many possible ideas for heuristics to try, really, which is probably why I never finished writing the search utility...!
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby simsim314 » July 23rd, 2015, 12:00 pm

I think it's all good except of one detail. We need an algorithm that could balance between different potential predecessors, without giving extra weight to any specific area.

Currently when we use depth-tree search, we give a lot of weight to those who were higher in the tree (the one in the middle in your case). Tree search except the problem it's not balanced, is also hard to parallelize.

I would suggest to start from predecessors with "contradictions" and highest score for each 3x3 tile, and then try to solve the contradictions by losing the score. I'm not sure how exactly to execute this algorithm, maybe genetic algorithm will actually work here but maybe some sort of heuristic or random algorithm with many trials, not sure. Hopefully the algorithm will find all the predecessors like the tree search but the "path" will be more balanced.
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby The Turtle » July 23rd, 2015, 2:04 pm

dvgrn wrote:
The Turtle wrote:How are new spaceship syntheses discovered?
I recall here that Extrementhusiast said "to step the pattern back until it looks like something constructable", but that is a bit tricky... very, very tricky. Is it because I am not experienced enough?

Sure, that sounds reasonable... bearing in mind that quite possibly nobody is experienced enough to step a turtle spaceship back to something constructible.

There's a search utility for this, too, of course -- lifesrc / WLS / JLS. If you set up JLS to search for symmetric predecessors of an object the size of a turtle, it will almost always find as many as you want, and you can backtrack quite a distance:

#C result #1 (left) and result #10 (right) from symmetric backtracking search
x = 53, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
6bobo3bo31bo2bo2bo$13bo33bo3bo$4b2ob2ob3obo8bo17bob2o2b4obo$4bobo2bo
12bo7bobo9bob2o$3bo2b3o2bo9b2o2bobo2bo10bo2b2obobo$b2o2bobobob2obo10b
2ob2o9b2o2bobob4obo$o3bo4b2obo8b2obo2b3o8bo3bo5bobo$2bob3obobo3bo6b4o
3b2o3bo6bob3ob2o4bo$2bob3obobo3bo6b4o3b2o3bo6bob3ob2o4bo$o3bo4b2obo8b
2obo2b3o8bo3bo5bobo$b2o2bobobob2obo10b2ob2o9b2o2bobob4obo$3bo2b3o2bo9b
2o2bobo2bo10bo2b2obobo$4bobo2bo12bo7bobo9bob2o$4b2ob2ob3obo8bo17bob2o
2b4obo$13bo33bo3bo$6bobo3bo31bo2bo2bo!

The JDF file for this search is attached, in case you want to load it into JLS and run it, to get a feel for how the various settings work.
[the attached file]

I was able to run the JDF file in JLS, but I can't figure out how to run my own patterns. I read the manual, but that didn't tell me much. The red icons keep preventing me from running the pattern. What should I do?
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby simsim314 » July 23rd, 2015, 2:37 pm

simsim314 wrote: We need an algorithm that could balance between different potential predecessors, without giving extra weight to any specific area.


I think I've an algorithm that will work for this problem.

We solve the problem in two steps:

1. Regular tree depth search but forcing the worst score predecessor to be the Kth worst predecessor of some tile.
2. Running K from 1 to max depth.

If we manage to separate nicely all the cases in #1 we could run #2 in parallel.

And here is how we seperate #1 cases:

Assume we have tiles T1, T2, ... Tn. We start from T1 and forcing it to use Kth worst predecessor in its predecessor list that was sorted by score. Then we limit each other tile to work only with its K best predecessors, thus assuring that if result was found the worst predecessor will be Kth predecessor from T1. After searching T1, we go to T2 and forcing its predecessor to be Kth worst, now other than that, we limit T1 to work with K - 1 worst predecessors, thus assuring that this case a. has worst predecessor of depth = K and b. not repeating the same check twice as T1 with depth < K and T2 with depth = K was never checked. We continue to T3 = K and T1 and T2 < K recursively, reaching all tiles with worst case depth = K.

This solution tries to pick as "center" each possible tile, while the results are sorted by the best scoring options of each tile. It also allows trivial parallelization, because even inside depth K each case checks unique options that no other case checks, so the intersection of all the checks is empty.

Now we only need to go from K = 1 to MAX, obviously after a while results will start to popup, and on the other hand with each depth the search time jumps exponentially, hopefully we can get enough highly scored solution before the search will stuck.

-----

Other than this option that sorts each tile equally, we can do similar thing using some ranges of "worst score". Considering that some tiles have worse predecessors than other tiles, instead of limiting the worst predecessor depth in the list, we can limit the worst predecessor by score. This will require some minor modifications (like skipping some tiles, and using some tiles twice with several "worst scores"), but the essential idea should work as well.
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby dvgrn » July 23rd, 2015, 4:44 pm

The Turtle wrote:I was able to run the JDF file in JLS, but I can't figure out how to run my own patterns. I read the manual, but that didn't tell me much. The red icons keep preventing me from running the pattern. What should I do?

Here are the things I had to do to change JLS from its default state to one that actually works:

1) Under Edit > Properties > Edit field, change the height, width, and depth of the search area to whatever you want.

2) In the same tab, click on the appropriate symmetry if you want to search for a symmetric predecessor.

3) Under the Tiling/translation tab, click on the "Unknown" radio button instead of "Generation 0, shifted..."

4) Draw the actual pattern at Gen. 3, or whatever your last generation is, defining all cells as OFF with a click-and-drag/right click, then turning cells ON with a left click.

5) Around the edges in Gen. 0, 1, and 2, and especially in any empty corners, hard-code as many OFF cells as you can get away with, to keep the size as small as possible. It's not a bad idea to always have a row of OFF cells around the outside, even at Gen. 0. (I've heard that two rows of OFF cells is good, but that may possibly be just superstition...) Then if you get zero results when you run the search, remove some OFF cells from earlier generations and try again until you start seeing results.

6) Under the Search > Sorting tab, probably choose "Start with the last generation, continue to the past" for a backtracking search.

7) In the same tab, pick an appropriate column and row for a start point, and click on a search geometry. For a symmetric search it probably makes sense to start on or near an axis of symmetry, and in general it makes sense to start in the middle or the most difficult part of a pattern.

That way JLS can try cell combinations and reach a contradiction more quickly, and can skip whole branches of the search tree very quickly. If you start in a corner where it really doesn't matter if cells are ON or OFF, JLS will still try the same pattern when it gets to the middle, but it has to discard them over and over again.

----------------------------------

#3 is really important -- otherwise you're really searching for some kind of oscillator or spaceship, depending on the other settings. You'll get lots of red cells, wherever you have cells defined in a state that contradicts some past or future generation. I'm thinking maybe that's the problem you're reporting as "red icons" (?)
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby gmc_nxtman » July 23rd, 2015, 6:15 pm

Off topic:

How do I search for low period sparkers? I'm looking for a p4 sparker that can be used as a glider filter for a p46 output. If one is already known, then I would still like to know because I need sparkers for other purposes.

Also, I should probably know where the output file is :oops:
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Re: Thread For Synthesisable Spaceship Guns

Postby dvgrn » July 23rd, 2015, 7:48 pm

simsim314 wrote:We solve the problem in two steps:

1. Regular tree depth search but forcing the worst score predecessor to be the Kth worst predecessor of some tile.
2. Running K from 1 to max depth.

If we manage to separate nicely all the cases in #1 we could run #2 in parallel.

Hmm, both of these interleaved discussions should probably move to separate threads, since they have to do with finding spaceship recipes, not spaceship guns...! Here's a new thread for the tile-based predecessor search topic.
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