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The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » September 4th, 2015, 8:24 am


Has anyone been keeping a version of the conduits collection patched up with new discoveries since May? If not, I'm thinking about doing that update and posting it in a new thread. The twenty-some pages on this thread are getting to be a lot to look through.

The new first post would also include a code box listing standard names for all known conduits, and those labels would be added to the stamp collection. That might help keep rediscoveries to a minimum. E.g., if you find a conduit that turns a Herschel into a queen bee in 145 ticks, you can do a quick search on "HF145QB". A text match on the name doesn't guarantee that it's the same conduit, but the odds are pretty good that it's a variant at least.

Along those lines, I liked Kazyan's idea about strictly limiting input and output object names to single characters. Does anyone think we'll have more than twenty-six types of active reactions any time soon?

Currently the only trouble spots are pi heptominoes where a P abbreviation would probably be okay, and queen bees where Q seems perfectly fine. Kazyan used W, "wing", for the block-glider reaction. I definitely vote for making that substitution, since "BG" seems really confusing anyway -- any newcomer will be looking for a B-heptomino and maybe a glider to go with it.

Thoughts, suggestions, contributions?

EDIT: I do really want to find an (existing or new) E-heptomino output, to prove that the E is worth adding to the list. Has anyone looked yet to see if any existing conduits include an E somewhere?
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby M. I. Wright » September 5th, 2015, 3:59 pm

Is it possible to make use of the B->B+H in the collection without converting either to a glider?
x = 67, y = 41, rule = LifeHistory
20.2A$19.A.A$20.A4$7.E$8.E$8.2E$7.2E$7.E19.A$25.3A$9.2A13.A$9.2A13.2A
3$33.A$33.3A5.3D$36.A5.D$35.2A5.3D2$.2A$.2A62.2A$64.A.A$64.2A4$59.2A$
2.2A54.A2.A$.A.A55.2A$.A$2A9.2A$12.A$9.3A24.2A$9.A13.D2.2D8.A$24.3D7.
A.A$25.D8.2A6.2A$41.A.A$41.A$40.2A!

Also, what's the purpose of marking some conduits with state-5 (yellow) cells? Is it to indicate that they have a large recovery time?
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » September 5th, 2015, 8:28 pm

M. I. Wright wrote:Is it possible to make use of the B->B+H in the collection without converting either to a glider?

Here's one way. I would guess that some other recently-discovered conduits could be used now -- maybe simsim314's new B-to-B? The main limitation is the input R-pentomino, because most R-producing conduits need catalysts in the way of the awkward output glider:

x = 148, y = 84, rule = LifeHistory
36.2A$35.A2.A$36.2A8$40.3D$41.D87.A$39.3D87.3A$132.A$131.2A4$144.2A.A
$144.A.2A$49.2A$49.A.A$51.A80.C$51.2A79.C.C$132.3C6.2A.2A$134.C6.A3.A
$142.3A$140.A.A$25.2A12.2A99.2A$25.A13.2A$23.A.A$23.2A6.A.A7.D$30.A.
2A6.3D$30.A8.2D2.D13.A$29.2A24.3A$54.A$54.2A9.2A$65.A$6.2A55.A.A$5.A
2.A54.2A$6.2A23.D$30.D$29.2D$30.2D$.2A28.D$A.A$2A62.2A$64.2A2$22.3D5.
2A$24.D5.A$23.3D5.3A$33.A55.2A$74.2A13.2A$73.A2.A$41.2A13.2A15.A.A$
42.A13.2A16.A$39.3A$39.A19.D$19.2A37.2D$18.A2.A35.2D11.2D$19.2A37.D
10.2D18.2A$59.D10.D17.A2.A$89.2A$82.2A$67.2D13.2A$46.A19.2D$45.A.A19.
D$45.2A7.2A$55.A$52.3A3.2A$52.A6.A$56.3A36.2A$56.A4.A33.2A$60.A.A.A
26.2A$60.A2.2A26.A.A$59.2A32.A$93.2A$80.2A$80.2A3$78.2A$78.2A!

M. I. Wright wrote:Also, what's the purpose of marking some conduits with state-5 (yellow) cells? Is it to indicate that they have a large recovery time?

State 5 just says, "This conduit is actually composite, not elementary, even though it's in the elementary conduits collection." Usually it's several conduits stuck together in a very useful way that gets used a lot, or maybe just a way that isn't very obvious.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby simeks » September 13th, 2015, 12:50 pm

In the previously known H-to-H and H-to-B on the left side there is a glider which is close to escaping, but is court up and participates in making the output H/B.

I was looking for a way to just let it escape instead, and found this new H-to-G, NE2T56:

x = 156, y = 80, rule = LifeHistory
18.A4.2A8.A110.4B$17.A.A2.A.A6.3A109.4B$16.A2.4A7.A101.2A8.4B$16.A.A
4.A6.2A96.A.A2.A7.4B3.A$15.2A.2A2.2A4.4B94.3A.2A8.4B3.A.A$13.A4.B3.4B
.3B95.A4.B8.4B4.A.A$10.A2.4AB2AB3.6B92.A2.4AB2AB5.4B4.2A.2A$10.3A3.A.
2AB.7B.B91.3A3.A.2AB.2B.4B6.B$13.A4.14B93.A4.10B6.2AB2A3.2A$12.2AB4.
12B3.2B88.2AB4.9B6.2A.A.A.A.A$12.5B.20B86.5B.12B3.4B2.A.A$14.25B87.
23B.2A.2A$12.28B84.25B$12.28B84.25B$11.28B84.27B$11.28B84.27B$12.26BD
B84.25B$11.25B3DB83.21B.4B.2B2.2A$9.20B2.5BDBD82.20B5.3B2ABA2.A$7.19B
5.5BD82.19B10.ABAB3A$7.2BE16B5.5B83.2BC16B10.A.A$6.3BEBE4B.9B6.3B83.
3BCBC4B.9B8.3A.5A$7.2B3E4B2.7B94.2B3C4B2.7B8.A3.A4.A$6.5BE4B3.5B94.5B
C4B3.5B9.2A2.A.A$5.10B5.4B93.10B5.3B15.2A$4.4B10.4B.B2A90.4B10.7B$4.
3B11.2A3.BA.A88.4B11.2A.B.2A$2.4B13.A6.A104.A3.A$2.2A12.3A7.2A100.3A
5.3A$3.A12.A111.A9.A$3A$A19$19.2A$16.2A2.A$14.3A.2A8.2B$13.A4.B8.3B$
10.A2.4AB2AB5.5B$10.3A3.A.2AB.2B.6B$13.A4.14B$12.2AB4.14B7.2A$12.5B.
15B7.A$14.22B.BA.A$12.24B.B2A$12.26B$11.27B$11.27B$12.20BD2B2D$11.20B
2.3D$9.20B5.D$7.19B$7.2BE16B$6.3BEBE4B.9B$7.2B3E4B2.7B$6.5BE4B3.5B$5.
10B5.3B$4.4B10.7B$4.3B11.2A.B.2A$2.4B13.A3.A$2.2A12.3A5.3A$3.A12.A9.A
$3A$A!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby A for awesome » September 13th, 2015, 3:08 pm

A transparent block reaction I found when trying to find an H-to-G:
x = 35, y = 29, rule = LifeHistory
20.2C5.4B$19.B2CB3.4B$13.B6.3B2.4B$12.4B5.B2.4B$10.17B$8.18B$7.19B.2B
$6.25B$6.19B.8B$6.29B$5.30B$3.32B$2.33B$.34B$35B$35B$2B.32B$B2.21B.
10B$4.19B4.8B$4.21B4.6B$10.16B4.4B$9.17B$9.2C15B$9.2C6B.4B3CB$10.3B6.
4BC2B$19.2B3C2B$20.6B$20.7B$22.B.4B!

So far I haven't been able to do anything useful with it, however.
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Extrementhusiast » September 13th, 2015, 7:53 pm

Promising partial for an Rx191, with a different beginning:
x = 53, y = 32, rule = LifeHistory
31.A$30.A.A$31.A7$24.A$24.3A$27.A$26.2A$50.2A$49.A2.A$50.2A3$38.3C$D
38.C$3D36.3C$D.D15.2A$2.D15.2A4$26.2A$27.A$21.2A.3A$22.A.A$22.A.A$23.
A!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby M. I. Wright » September 13th, 2015, 7:55 pm

dvgrn wrote:Here's one way.

Thank you! This is another method of getting the input B:
x = 110, y = 75, rule = LifeHistory
86.2A$40.3D44.A8.3E$41.D45.A.A8.E$39.3D46.2A7.3E8$49.2A$49.A.A$51.A$
51.2A$89.2A15.2A$89.2A15.A.A$108.A$108.2A$25.2C12.2A$25.C13.2A$23.C.C
$23.2C6.A.A7.D$30.A.2A6.3D$30.C8.2D2.D13.C$29.2C24.3C$54.C35.3D$54.2C
9.2C23.D$65.C23.3D$6.2C55.C.C$5.C2.C54.2C24.2A$6.2C23.D57.2A$30.D$29.
2D$30.2D$.2C28.D$C.C$2C62.2C$64.2C2$22.3D5.2C$24.D5.C40.2A$23.3D5.3C
37.2A$33.C3$41.2C13.2C46.2A$42.C13.2C46.2A$8.2A29.3C$9.A29.C19.D$9.A.
A46.2D$10.2A45.2D36.2A$34.2A22.D36.A$34.2A23.D36.3A$98.A3$46.C$45.C.C
15.2A$32.2A11.2C15.A.A$32.A29.A23.2A$33.3A25.2A23.A.A$35.A52.A$33.2A
53.2A$33.A$31.A.A$31.2A6$23.3D$25.D$24.3D!

The first B->B in the collection also works, but it has the same problem with inputs.

State 5 just says, "This conduit is actually composite, not elementary, even though it's in the elementary conduits collection." Usually it's several conduits stuck together in a very useful way that gets used a lot, or maybe just a way that isn't very obvious.

Oh, okay - I was just confused because some of the state-1 conduits appear to be composite (for instance, the last two B->Bs have Herschels marked in red halfway through, and the second pi->H is a pi->BG connected to a BG->H) and some of the state-5 conduits didn't have any intermediate stages labeled in state 4 cells.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby simsim314 » September 14th, 2015, 4:31 pm

Extrementhusiast wrote:Promising partial for an Rx191


Here is the cleaning part (found with bellman):

x = 54, y = 40, rule = LifeHistory
33.C$33.3C7.2C$36.C6.C$35.2C4.C.C$41.2C2$48.2C$48.C3.2C$31.C18.C2.C$
30.C.C16.3C$31.C$49.3C$49.C2.C$51.2C4$24.C$24.3C$27.C$26.2C$50.2C$49.
C2.C$50.2C3$38.3C$D38.C$3D36.3C$D.D15.2C$2.D15.2C4$26.2C$27.C$21.2C.
3C$22.C.C$22.C.C$23.C!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Scorbie » September 14th, 2015, 5:02 pm

simsim314 wrote:
Extrementhusiast wrote:Promising partial for an Rx191

Here is the cleaning part (found with bellman):

Hmm, why does that catalyst look familiar?
x = 42, y = 57, rule = LifeHistory
32.2A$32.A$33.A$18.BA8.2A2.2A$17.BABA7.A.A$17.BABA9.A.4A$18.BA2B3.4B
2A.A2.A$16.5B3.8B$15.14B$15.16B$16.16B$15.17B8.A$13.21B4.3A$11.24B2.A
$11.2BC20B3.2A$10.3BCBC23B$11.2B3C21B$10.5BC22B$9.29B$8.27B2.B2A$7.
26B4.BA.A$6.26B8.A$5.25B10.2A$4.26B.BA$3.4B.23BA.A$2.4B3.12B.7B.2BA$.
4B4.12B4.B5.B$4B4.13B$3B3.2AB.9B.B2A$2B3.A.AB.8B2.BA.A$B4.A5.7B5.A$3.
3A5.5B7.2A$2.A6.7B$3.3A2.8B$5.A12B$7.11B$7.4B2A5B$8.3B2A5B$8.10B$9.9B
$9.9B$9.8B$10.8B$11.6B$11.6B$11.6B$10.7B$10.6B$11.6B$11.5B$10.6B$10.
6B$11.5B$11.3D2B$12.BDB$12.3D$13.B!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » September 15th, 2015, 6:08 pm

simsim314 wrote:
Extrementhusiast wrote:Promising partial for an Rx191

Here is the cleaning part (found with bellman)...

Very nice! I'm really going to have to do a new edition of Hersrch, and a corresponding new version of the Herschel-conduit stamp collection for Golly, one of these days. It's too bad that it's so much work to get all the statistics and template files right.

I suppose that means someone (probably me) should be writing some statistics-generating code along the same lines as the H-to-G identifier script. The input-Herschel ID code is done already, at least.

This Rx191 might allow for a reasonably compact way to rescue a difficult B-heptomino output and produce a clean H, occasionally -- if you don't mind the lousy 309-tick recovery time:

#C rectifier B-heptomino rescue -- probably not too useful.
#C Composite circuit shown here with a BRx46B input conduit.
x = 74, y = 66, rule = LifeHistory
65.2A$51.A8.2A4.A$50.A.A7.A.A.A$50.A.A9.A.2A$51.A9.2A.A2.A$66.2A2$20.
C2.2C$21.3C$16.2C4.C49.A$16.2C52.3A$69.A$37.D7.D23.2A$38.D6.D.D$38.2D
5.3D$37.2D8.D$37.D$21.2C47.2A$15.2C3.C2.C46.A.A$15.2C4.2C49.A$72.2A$
64.A$63.A.A$64.A2$11.E$11.3E24.2A13.2A$14.E22.A.A13.A.A$13.2E22.A17.A
$35.3A17.2A$34.A$35.3A$37.A2$4.E38.2A$4.3E23.2E11.2A$7.E21.E2.E$6.2E
22.2E5$53.2A$53.A$51.A.A$16.2E33.2A$16.2E5$43.3D$45.D$44.3D2$8.2E$3.
2E2.E2.E$3.E4.E.E$2E.E5.E$.E.E.2E$E2.E2.E$2E2.E4.E$5.5E2$4.E.2E$4.2E.
E!

Unfortunately the Rx191's output glider doesn't appear to be very usable at the moment. A Snark almost works to reflect a glider back across the circuit, but the eaters aren't quite overlappable I think.

The only trick I could find was an easy weld of a semi-Snark, producing an H-to-G that will come in handy approximately never -- the NW-14 glider seemed to be aimed unerringly at some catalyst, usually the transparent block, in whatever prefix conduit I tried:

#C composite H-to-G, NW-14T336
x = 57, y = 87, rule = LifeHistory
4.D3.D.D3.D9.D6.D2.5D2.3D3.3D3.3D$4.2D2.D.D3.D8.2D5.2D4.D3.D3.D.D3.D.
D$4.D.D.D.D3.D9.D4.D.D4.D7.D5.D.D$4.D2.2D.D.D.D.5D3.D3.D2.D4.D5.2D4.
2D2.4D$4.D3.D.D.D.D9.D3.5D3.D7.D5.D.D3.D$4.D3.D.2D.2D9.D6.D4.D3.D3.D.
D3.D.D3.D$4.D3.D.D3.D8.3D5.D4.D4.3D3.3D3.3D6$45.2A$31.A8.2A4.A$30.A.A
7.A.A.A$30.A.A9.A.2A$31.A9.2A.A2.A$46.2A4$52.A$50.3A$49.A$25.C23.2A$
25.C.C$25.3C$27.C2$50.2A$50.A.A$52.A$52.2A$44.A$43.A.A$44.A3$18.2A13.
2A$17.A.A13.A.A$17.A17.A8.2A$15.3A17.3A6.2A$14.A23.A$15.3A19.2A13.2A$
17.A34.A$50.A.A$23.2A25.2A$23.2A$43.2A$43.2A3$49.A$48.A.A$49.A3$40.2A
$40.2A3$13.A$13.3A$16.A$15.2A11$28.2A$28.2A2$3.A.2A$.3A.2A22.2A$A28.A
$.3A.2A23.3A$3.A.A26.A$3.A.A8.2A$4.A10.A$12.3A$12.A!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby simeks » September 16th, 2015, 11:44 am

Extrementhusiast wrote:Promising partial for an Rx191, with a different beginning:

Very nice find!

dvgrn wrote:Unfortunately the Rx191's output glider doesn't appear to be very usable at the moment.

A different clean-up that allows the output glider to escape:

x = 55, y = 40, rule = LifeHistory
39.2C$39.2C7$31.C18.2C$30.C.C16.C2.C$31.C16.C.C.C$49.2C2.2C$51.C.C$
49.2C2.C$50.C.C$49.C2.2C$50.2C2.C$24.C28.2C$24.3C$27.C$26.2C$50.2C$
49.C2.C$50.2C3$38.3C$D38.C$3D36.3C$D.D15.2C$2.D15.2C4$26.2C$27.C$21.
2C.3C$22.C.C$19.3C$19.C!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » September 16th, 2015, 1:13 pm

simeks wrote:A different clean-up that allows the output glider to escape...

Even better! Rx conduits seem to have been pretty rare in any case, and the old standard Rx202 absorbs its output Herschel's glider, so this is a nice addition.

I've added the new Rx191 to my copy of the elementary-conduits collection, and have fixed the missing conduits in the BR241Pi. I'm now working on adding labels (via the wonderfully convenient #N tags) to all of the elementary conduits.

That will probably take a while. When it's done, I'll add in any other recent new discoveries, and then post the updated collection in a new thread.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Gustavo6046 » September 17th, 2015, 7:26 pm

I need a G-to-H to complete the loop.
Promissor reaction that can make to a H-to-G:
x = 75, y = 75, rule = B3/S23
73b2o$73bo$71bobo$71b2o13$34b2o$35bo$35bobo$36b2o2$49bo$49b3o$49bobo$
51bo8$41b2o$40bobo$41bo28$2b2o$3bo$3o$o4$8b2o$7bobo$7bo48b2o$6b2o48bob
o$58bo$58b2o!
*yawn* What a nothing-to-do day! Let's be the only person in the world to do CGOL during boring times. :)
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Sphenocorona » September 17th, 2015, 8:05 pm

Kazyan's 'syringe' G-to-H is by far the smallest and fastest (all the others are too big to be 'elementary' in the normal sense):
x = 47, y = 38, rule = LifeHistory
6$7.BD$6.DBDB$7.2D2B$8.4B10.A$9.4B7.3A$10.4B5.A$11.4B4.2A16.2B$4.2A6.
9B15.4B$5.A7.6B14.8B$5.A.2A5.6B3.B2.2B2.10B$6.A2.A4.19BD6B$7.2AB3.20B
DBD4B$8.14B2A9B3D4B$9.13B2A11BD4B$10.29B$10.17B.B.2B$11.15B4.3B$11.
15B5.A2B.2A$12.13B5.A.A2B.A$14.13B2.A.AB2.A$13.8B4.2A.A.A3.A$13.6B6.
2ABA2.4A.A$13.5B8.B2.A.A3.A.A$13.B.B9.2A.2A2.A2.A.A$14.3B9.A.A2.2A3.A
$13.B2AB9.A.A$14.2A11.A!

I post this rather than simply say to look for it because a. searching for conduits or spaceships in the forums is really annoying due to the "Omitted common words: h to g" messages, and b. I don't think I have an up-to-date elementary conduit collection, and it's annoying to dig through threads to get the copy that is buried between other posts/threads by 10 pages in either direction.

Using a G-to-H may be considered a cheap way to do it rather than actually make it entirely of normal conduits, but since there's only one, it still has its limitations which can be quite annoying when actually trying to build a circuit that does some kind of function like send a specific salvo of gliders.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby codeholic » September 17th, 2015, 8:07 pm

Gustavo, a small G-to-H converter was discovered by Jacobi Tanner this year in March.

And hereby I remind you that you are still allowed to post in the only thread (which is not this one, by the way). Believe me, people read your thread, and your question could have been asked there equally well. And please don't reply to my post here. Thank you in advance.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » September 17th, 2015, 9:45 pm

Sphenocorona wrote:I don't think I have an up-to-date elementary conduit collection, and it's annoying to dig through threads to get the copy that is buried between other posts/threads by 10 pages in either direction.

There's a way of avoiding this that seems to work quite well, so maybe it's just a matter of advertising the solution in enough places to get everyone used to it.

Check the first post in this thread. It was edited several months ago to contain an up-to-date link to the current latest version of the elementary conduits collection, which contains a syringe (Kazyan's G-to-H), a Snark, a semi-Snark, a rectifier, a boojum reflector, a Silver reflector, just about every known variant of transmitter and receiver, and lots of other useful circuits.

That May 30th collection won't be the latest version for much longer. I'm working on an update, which will be posted at the top of a new thread when it's done. I'll be sure to update the link at the beginning of this thread to point to the updated collection.

Similarly, the top two posts of the H-to-G and H-to-2G converter collection thread contain the most recent versions of those two collections.

In general, if you know that a useful collection can be found somewhere in a thread, check the first post. If you wrote the first post, and the thread goes into multiple pages, please consider adding a pointer to the latest and greatest version of whatever-it-is. Something similar has been done for several more of the longest threads on the forums.

It's not a perfect system, but it's not too bad. Eventually some of these large pattern collections will probably find their way into Golly's Help > Online Archives pattern collections, and then maybe more people will be able to find them.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Scorbie » September 19th, 2015, 8:38 am

I'm looking for advice whether the following are a good idea:

1) Is it economical to build self-constructing circuitry with the tape of 2G instead of 1G?
For instance, I see that this conduit emits a G8 tandem glider signal and a herschel:
x = 33, y = 24, rule = B3/S23
o$obo$3o$2bo12$9b2o$4b2o3b2o$4b2o2$31bo$3b2o25bobo$4bo5b2o18bobo$b3o6b
2o19bo$bo!

So if we have a G8-to-Herschel converter, we could save a whole lot of still lifes, I think.
If this is a good idea, how many still lifes can we use at most to make a G8-to-Herschel converter?

2) somehow related to 1): I see there are not to many 2G emitting conduits on a specific lane, so wouldn't it still be useful if the resulting conduit is timing dependent? i.e. can only recieve tandem gliders from that specific conduit?
Best wishes to you, Scorbie
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby simsim314 » September 19th, 2015, 9:14 am

Scorbie wrote: Is it economical to build self-constructing circuitry with the tape of 2G instead of 1G?


I would suggest to go over this thread to get new ideas for alternative self constructing designs.

It has a lot of new design ideas (tandem, guns, glider converted to tandem using a gun and more), with arm movement recipes for each alternative design.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Scorbie » September 19th, 2015, 10:16 am

simsim314 wrote:I would suggest to go over this thread to get new ideas for alternative self constructing designs.
I'm kinda afraid of not returning to real life when I study self-constructing circuitry... But a quick lookathrough of the patterns suggest that the existing circuitry is quite speedy and cheap... Maybe not to bother with finding new spartan conduits? ( and G8-> H?, as I mentioned earlier?)
Best wishes to you, Scorbie
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby simsim314 » September 19th, 2015, 10:24 am

I think that G4 is better as H->G4 and G4->H are well known and cheap as well (all posted in the mentioned thread). I explore this question as well in the thread.

EDIT I don't see any G8->H in the collection. The only alternatives to G4 are G2, G5 and G6. All are less favorable in size and (mainly) recovery time parameters.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Extrementhusiast » September 19th, 2015, 2:23 pm

Promising B-to-B partial, using that one transparent block:
x = 31, y = 39, rule = LifeHistory
25.D$24.3D$23.2D.D6$2A$2A19$4.2C$4.2C2$26.2A$10.C13.A2.A$9.3C12.3A$8.
2C.C$24.2A.A.2A$25.A.2A.A$25.A$24.2A!
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » September 19th, 2015, 2:29 pm

Scorbie wrote:1) Is it economical to build self-constructing circuitry with the tape of 2G instead of 1G?
For instance, I see that this conduit emits a G8 tandem glider signal and a herschel... [Fx119 Herschel conduit]

Not-quite-perfect Gn-to-H transceivers have been turning up with increasing frequency lately -- like this Spartan transmitter and near-Spartan 135-degree receiver, for example.

It seems to me that it's only a matter of time before a G8 receiver shows up. Most likely, if I had to guess, I'd expect it to be a case where a glider hits a small still life and makes a big explosion, which is successfully catalyzed back into the original still life plus an extra block.

The traditional Annoying Beehive allows for GxX, Gx+3, and Gx+4 cleanups, but a leftover block would mean Gx, Gx+1, Gx+2, Gx+3, Gx+4, and Gx+5 instead -- if there's enough space around the block, otherwise maybe just the Gx+1 through Gx+4 options. The odds are fairly good that one of these would accept a G8.

Once one of these G8 receivers shows up, if it happens to be reasonably compact and Spartan, it will probably enable complex self-constructing circuitry that's maybe 10% to 30% cheaper. Definitely that's a significant improvement. On the other hand, any mechanism that could be built using it could perfectly well be built and programmed right now, without all that much more effort.

The Fx119 G8 tandem glider output is unusually good, not only because the Fx119 needs so few catalysts (and mostly blocks) but because the two gliders are far enough apart that it's reasonable to hope that the receiver will be ambidextrous. I.e., flip the receiver one way and leave the extra still life in, or flip it the other way and take the still life out. All that's needed for ambidexterity is an active reaction that settles in under 150 ticks or so.

Another thing I'm still hoping will turn up is a really cheap invariant turner. The semi-Snark and the loaf2GtoG are pretty good, but still very expensive to construct far away from a parent pattern. If the turner could be made out of just one or two or three small still lifes, and could be triggered with just two gliders, that would be pretty good. Here are some current 3-glider-plus-still-life options.

It would be extra-good if the two trigger gliders could be the G8 tandem pair from the Fx119, or any other similar pair of gliders generated by a single conduit without destroying the Herschel. Too much to hope for, probably, but that would _really_ cause a revolution in self-constructing circuitry.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby simsim314 » September 20th, 2015, 1:42 pm

As dvgrn suggested to look for receivers that sensitive to output Gn glider, I've checked H->G4, and found this configuration:

x = 271, y = 79, rule = LifeHistory
229.C$227.3C$226.C$226.2C$96.3B126.3B$96.3B124.3B$95.5B122.5B.B6.2C$
95.6B121.8B5.C$94.8B.B117.9B2.BC.C$92.15B114.10B.B2C$92.15B115.11B7.
2C$89.19B115.9B8.C$20.2C66.2C19B113.10B5.BC.C$20.C67.2CB.17B6.2C106.
10B2.B.B2C$17.BC.C68.B3.17B5.C105.17B$15.B.B2C74.15B3.BC.C104.18B$15.
3B75.16B.B.B2C105.18B$15.3B75.20B107.18B$15.3B76.19B108.19B$15.3B77.
18B106.B.20B$.19B75.18B105.2B2C19B$.20B75.19B102.3B2C19B$2C19B73.B.
20B88.2C9.24B.B2C$2C19B72.2B2C19B89.C6.26B2.BC.C$19B.B2C69.3B2C19B89.
C.CB2.27B5.C$18B2.BC.C55.2C9.24B.B2C88.2CB.27B6.2C$18B5.C56.C6.26B2.B
C.C89.29B$17B6.2C55.C.CB.28B5.C89.29B$17B64.2CB.27B6.2C88.30B$17B66.
29B97.13B.16B$18B65.29B95.13B2.9B.8B$2B.16B63.31B94.2C3.8B3.9B.8B$2.
9B.8B62.15B.16B94.C3.9B2.8B3.8B$3.9B.8B61.13B2.9B.8B90.3C3.10B3.8B3.
8B$3.8B3.8B60.2C.B.8B3.9B.8B89.C5.9B6.3B2C2B3.8B$4.8B3.8B60.C3.9B2.8B
3.8B96.7B7.BC2BCB4.8B$6.3B2C2B3.8B56.3C3.10B3.8B3.8B97.4B10.2CB6.8B$
7.BC2BCB4.8B55.C5.9B6.3B2C2B3.8B98.B12.2B7.8B13.2A$9.2CB6.8B62.7B7.BC
2BCB4.8B109.2B9.8B11.B2A2B$10.2B7.8B13.2A48.4B10.2CB6.8B107.B2CB9.8B
11.4B$9.2B9.8B11.B2A2B48.B12.2B7.8B13.2A92.2C11.8B9.5B$8.B2CB9.8B11.
4B60.2B9.8B11.B2A2B104.8B6.7B$9.2C11.8B9.5B59.B2CB9.8B11.4B105.10B3.
6B$23.8B6.7B60.2C11.8B9.5B106.5BC12B$24.10B3.6B75.8B6.7B107.2B3C13B$
25.5BC12B76.10B3.6B107.3BCBC13B$26.2B3C13B76.5BC12B108.2BC15B$25.3BCB
C13B77.2B3C13B107.19B$26.2BC15B76.3BCBC13B109.18B$26.19B76.2BC15B111.
17B$28.18B75.19B111.16B$30.17B76.18B110.16B$31.16B78.17B107.8B.7B.B2A
$31.16B79.16B107.2A3.B4.4B3.BA.A$29.8B.7B.B2A77.16B108.A9.5B4.A$29.2A
3.B4.4B3.BA.A74.8B.7B.B2A103.3A13.2A4.2A$30.A9.5B4.A74.2A3.B4.4B3.BA.
A102.A15.A$27.3A13.2A4.2A74.A9.5B4.A119.3A$27.A15.A78.3A13.2A4.2A120.
A$44.3A75.A15.A$46.A92.3A$141.A17$260.B!


I also think that Scorbie's G5->Junk should be investigated as well:

x = 102, y = 95, rule = LifeHistory
5$22.6B$21.6B$20.12B$20.15B$20.17B$20.17B$20.18B$20.2BA15B$20.BABA15B
$20.2B2A14B$20.19B$20.20B$20.5BA13B$20.4BABA11B$20.4B2A11B$20.15B$20.
15B$20.16B$20.16B$20.16B$20.16B$24.12B$24.12B$24.12B$24.13B$24.12B$
24.12B$24.13B$24.14B$24.10B.4B$24.11B.4B$24.5B3.4B.4B$24.4B5.4B.4B$
27.AB5.4B.4B$26.A.A6.4B.4B$26.2A8.4B.4B$37.4B.4B$38.4B.4B$39.4B.4B$
40.4B.4B$41.4B.4B$42.4B.4B$43.4B.4B$44.4B.4B$45.4B.4B$46.4B.4B$47.4B.
4B$48.4B.4B$49.4B.4B$50.4B.4B$51.4B.4B$52.4B.4B$53.4B.4B$54.4B.4B$55.
4B.4B$56.4B.4B$57.4B.4B$58.4B.4B13.2A.2A$59.4B.4B12.A3.A$60.4B.4B12.
3A$61.4B.4B$62.4B.10B4.3A$63.4B.5BC4B2.A3.A$64.4B.2B3C4B.B2AB2A$65.6B
CBC10B$66.5BC11B$67.15B$68.15B$69.14BA$70.12B.3A$71.9B6.A$72.8B5.2A$
70.8B$70.2A4.B$71.A$68.3A$68.A!


EDIT I also think we should focus on non-destructive H->Gn (there is very nice H->G8 and less nicer G4, G2, G9).
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Kazyan » September 20th, 2015, 6:01 pm

Domino->G+Beehive. More accessible than my earlier Domino->G, and the glider's path is less intrusive into the source of the spark.

x = 19, y = 23, rule = B3/S23
2o15b2o$bo15bo$bobo4b2o5bobo$2b2o11b2o$7bo$6bobo$6bobo$7bo$2o$2o5$13b
2o$12bo2bo$13bobo$14bo3$15bo$14bobo$14b2o!


Haven't found a way to free up enough lanes for it to be a LWSS->G converter yet:

x = 19, y = 18, rule = B3/S23
7bo$6bo$6bo$6bo2bo$6b3o4$17b2o$17b2o$11bo$10bobo$10bobo$11bo$2b2o11b2o
$bobo11bobo$bo15bo$2o15b2o!
Tanner Jacobi
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby simsim314 » September 20th, 2015, 7:10 pm

Does anyone see a way to attach this one? (and I know it's overkill for G4->H):

x = 86, y = 83, rule = LifeHistory
6$23.C$23.3C$26.C$25.2C7.2B$25.5B.6B$27.3B.7B$26.7BD5B$26.6B3D5B$25.
6B2DBD5B$23.B.16B$22.2C17B$22.2C17B$23.16B.B2C$23.15B2.BC.C$25.13B5.C
$23.15B5.2C$23.15B$20.19B$19.2C19B$19.2CB.17B6.2C$20.B3.17B5.C$25.15B
3.BC.C$24.16B.B.B2C$24.20B$25.19B$26.18B$26.18B$27.19B$25.B.20B$24.2B
2C19B$23.3B2C19B$10.2C9.24B.B2C$11.C6.26B2.BC.C$11.C.CB2.27B5.C$12.2C
B.27B6.2C$14.29B$14.29B$14.30B$15.13B.16B$13.13B2.9B.8B$13.2C3.8B3.9B
.8B$14.C3.9B2.8B3.8B$11.3C3.10B3.8B3.8B$11.C5.9B6.3B2C2B3.8B$19.7B7.B
C2BCB4.8B$21.4B10.2CB6.8B$23.B12.2B7.8B13.2A$35.2B9.8B11.B2A2B$34.B2C
B9.8B11.4B$35.2C11.8B9.5B$49.8B6.7B$50.10B3.6B$51.5BC12B$52.2B3C13B$
51.3BCBC13B$52.2BC15B$52.19B$54.18B$56.17B$57.16B$57.16B$55.8B.7B.B2A
$55.2A3.B4.4B3.BA.A$56.A9.5B4.A$53.3A13.2A4.2A$53.A15.A$70.3A$72.A!
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