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The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » February 2nd, 2015, 3:32 pm

As mentioned in the latest Bellman thread, it seems worth doing some semi-organized searching for new Herschel conduits and converters based on Kazyan's results here and here.

First, some useful links:

Link to the latest H-to-H collection by gmc_nxtman (currently 27 August 2017). These are stable Herschel-to-Herschel conduits that must fit inside 100x100, and the conversion must be complete in no more than 300 ticks.

Link to the latest version of the elementary conduits stamp collection (as of 13 April 2016). Previous version here.

EDIT: Adding an illustration of canonical orientations for conduit inputs. Haven't added the "E" target yet -- waiting to see if conduits with an E-heptomino stage can really be found. Previous version here.

Code: Select all
x = 84, y = 21, rule = LifeHistory
.3D7.3D6.D2.D7.2D7.3D7.3D8.2D7.D3.D6.2D$.D2.D6.D2.D5.D2.D6.D2.D6.D2.D
6.D2.D6.D2.D6.D3.D5.D2.D$.D2.D6.D2.D5.D2.D6.D9.D2.D6.D2.D6.D2.D6.D3.D
5.D$.3D7.3D6.4D6.D9.D2.D6.D2.D6.D2.D6.D3.D5.D.2D$.D2.D6.D2.D5.D2.D6.D
9.D2.D6.3D7.D2.D6.D.D.D5.D2.D$.D2.D6.D2.D5.D2.D6.D2.D6.D2.D6.D9.D.D7.
2D.2D5.D2.D$.D2.D6.3D6.D2.D7.2D7.3D7.D10.D.D6.D3.D6.2D3$.4B$6B$8B$10B
$10B4.2B2.2B40.D$2BD10BD7BD38.2D$2BCD10BD6BDBD7.3D8.2D6.3D8.2D9.2D7.D
$B2D7B2.2BCD5BDCDB7.CD7.DCD7.CD8.DCD8.CD7.CD$10B2.B2D8BD6.D.2D6.D2.D
6.3D8.2D8.2D7.3D$13BD8B8.2D8.D.D17.2D9.D$15B.B24.D18.D$5B.B3.B!
#C [[ HEIGHT 240 ]]

I picked a canonical orientation for all of the objects, and made sure the input was in that orientation. The R, B, and H are all oriented so they travel to the right, and the canonical R naturally transforms into canonical B, which becomes canonical H twenty ticks later.

If everyone gets used to these utterly arbitrary orientations being the canonical ones, then we can meaningfully define left and right turns and forward moves for any of them, except the glider of course. Or any conversion between any of them, with or without mirror-image flips -- e.g., simsim314's BRx46 (B right turn to flipped B), or chris_c's HFx58Bb (H forward to flipped B). The pi-heptomino, and the queen bee if we end up adding that, [will] just have "T" turns instead of "L" and "R".
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Sphenocorona » February 3rd, 2015, 12:12 am

Here's an H->G which outputs on the same lane as another conduit and same recovery time (66 ticks), but at a different time via a different mechanism and with an early window between 53 and 62 ticks where it still works:
x = 33, y = 36, rule = LifeHistory
.2A$.2A2$.4A$A4.A$.3A.A$3.A.2AB14.2A$7.2B.2B9.B2AB$4.3A8B7.3B$3.A2.AB
.15B2.B5.B$3.2A2.21B3.2B$7.22B.3B$7.26B$8.24B$9.22B$10.20B$9.8B.3B.7B
$9.7B8.3B$8.11B5.5B$8.12B7.2A$8.12B7.A$9.11B8.3A$7.4B.4B3CB10.A$7.2A
4.4BC2B$8.A4.2B3C2B$5.3A6.6B$5.A8.7B$16.B.4B$19.4B$20.4B$21.4B$22.3B$
24.B2A$24.BA.A$27.A$27.2A!

The H->G above is also much smaller than the other H->G on the same lane that I am aware of.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Extrementhusiast » February 4th, 2015, 10:50 pm

Found a periodic Herschel conduit, Fx117p4/5/6/7/8/others:
x = 197, y = 44, rule = B3/S23
11b2o41b2o41b2o41b2o41b2o$11bo42bo42bo42bo42bo$9b3o40b3o40b3o40b3o40b
3o9$152bo2bo2bo$149bo2b7o$149b3o$153b2obo$151b3obobo$150bo3bo2bo$64b2o
83bob2ob2ob2o$9b2o41b2o10bobo28b2o41b2o9bobo3bobo23b2o$9b2o41b2o12bo
28b2o41b2o8b2o2b4obo23b2o9b2o$62b4ob2o2b2o35bo2bo38bobobo2b2o33b2o$2ob
o39b2obo15bo2bobobo2bo13b2obo18bo20b2obo17bobo3bo15b2obo$ob2o24b2o13bo
b2o20bobobo14bob2o17bo4bo16bob2o16b2obo3bo15bob2o17bo$27bobo32bo4bo2bo
35bobo2b2o38bob2obob2o32bobo$25b3o34bob2o5b3o2b2o26b2obo43bo2b3o2bo31b
o2bo$2b2o20bo3bo16b2o16bo4b2ob2obo2bo10b2o41b2o17b2obo3bo16b2o14bo2bo$
3bo16bo3b5o17bo16b2o6bob4o12bo42bo17bo2b4o18bo$3bobo12b3o3b2o20bobo14b
2o6bo17bobo12bo2bo24bobo17bo22bobo12bo2bo$4b2o14bo3b5o18b2o14b2o7b3o
15b2o14b2o25b2o15bo2b4o19b2o14b2o$24bo3bo45bo75b2obo2bo$25b3o123bobo$
27bobo121bob2o$28b2o122bo$18b2obo39b2obo39b2obo39b2obobo37b2obo$18b2ob
3o37b2ob3o37b2ob3o37b2ob2o38b2ob3o$24bo42bo42bo85bo$18b2ob3o37b2ob3o
37b2ob3o37b2ob2o38b2ob3o$19bobo40bobo40bobo40bobo40bobo$19bobo40bobo
40bobo40bobo40bobo$20bo42bo42bo42bo42bo$5b3o7b2o31b3o7b2o31b3o7b2o31b
3o7b2o31b3o7b2o$6bo8bobo31bo8bobo31bo8bobo31bo8bobo31bo8bobo$6b3o8bo
31b3o8bo31b3o8bo31b3o8bo31b3o8bo$17b2o41b2o41b2o41b2o41b2o!
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » February 5th, 2015, 1:42 am

Extrementhusiast wrote:Found a periodic Herschel conduit, Fx117p4/5/6/7/8/others:

Nice one! We already had an F117, but not an Fx117. Looks like there's not quite room for the standard 39-tick-reduced F78p8, bouncing the unmodified Herschel's glider back to kill off its extra block:

#C failed F78p8 conduit based on Fx117p8
x = 44, y = 34, rule = LifeHistory
8.A$7.A.A$7.A.A9.2A$5.3A.2A4.2A.A2.A.2A$4.A10.A4.A2.2A$5.3A.2A8.A$A6.
A.2A5.A.A$3A28.4B$3.A26.5B$2.2A24.7B$21.2B2.10B$21.7BD6B$21.7BDBD4B8.
A$21.7B3D4B6.3A$21.3B2.4BD4B6.A$21.3B2.8B7.A$.A19.B.4B$.A.A18.4B$.3A$
3.A11.2A$15.A4.3B3.D$16.3D.2B3.AC$18.D.B2A2.AC$20.C.C3.D$21.C$14.3BAB
$16.3A2B.DAC$15.AB3AB2.C$14.A.2BAB4.3C$12.BA2B.A8.C$11.B3ABA$11.2B3A$
13.BAB$13.2B!

I've put together a matrix of Bellman results posted so far, copied from here, so that we can refer to the various new mechanisms without quoting them all the time. As time goes on I'll update the table below with notes on which catalysts have been successfully used in Herschel circuitry, which have been tried but nothing has showed up, and which look like they're probably not worth trying (and why).

The first two rows, A and B, are from Kazyan's first Bellman posting about Herschels. C is Extrementhusiast's contributions, and D is Kazyan's Herschel-plus-early-eater search.

    Attempted so far:
  • A3: variant of Lx134p15, can be replaced by a fishhook eater and block -- the new Bellman catalyst doesn't allow anything new like a stable conduit (I don't think)
  • A8: 6 additional catalysts, not counting block- and glider-killers and the block+snake converter. Very incomplete search, produced Rx382p8 and R421 so far. There may be F, Fx, B, Bx, or additional R or Rx high-delay outputs, possibly with a lower repeat time than 363 if the glider can be suppressed.
  • C2: Extrementhusiast found complete Fx117p4-8 conduits
  • C3: Tried catgl with 3 standard conduits -- nothing very promising showed up.
  • D6: maybe low probability of success because the final eater only lasts about 20 ticks after recovery before the active reaction is unstoppable -- there's a fairly small spacetime window to place additional catalysts.
#C Herschel + Bellman catalyst matrix.
#C Fixed B1 and B6 as per Sokwe's notes.
#C Added E1-E4 for Kazyan's 5-6 Feb 2015 postings
x = 1210, y = 872, rule = LifeHistory
26.13D351.13D383.14D240.14D124.14D$22.20D226.14D104.20D241.37D99.20D
234.20D118.20D$20.24D105.9D107.21D98.24D130.11D98.37D96.25D93.47D90.
24D114.24D$19.27D102.10D104.26D94.28D127.12D98.37D95.27D92.47D88.28D
110.28D$18.29D101.10D103.29D91.30D125.13D98.37D93.31D90.47D87.30D108.
30D$17.31D99.11D101.32D89.32D124.13D97.38D92.33D89.47D86.32D106.32D$
16.33D97.12D100.34D87.34D122.14D97.38D91.35D88.47D85.34D104.34D$15.
34D96.13D99.36D85.36D120.15D97.38D90.36D88.47D84.36D102.36D$14.16D4.
16D95.13D98.38D84.16D4.17D119.15D97.38D90.17D3.17D87.47D83.17D4.17D
100.18D4.16D$13.15D8.15D93.14D97.18D4.18D82.15D8.15D118.16D97.38D89.
15D8.16D86.47D83.15D8.15D100.16D8.15D$13.14D10.14D92.15D97.15D10.16D
80.15D11.14D116.17D96.12D115.15D11.14D86.46D83.15D10.15D98.15D12.14D$
12.14D12.14D89.17D96.15D12.15D80.14D13.13D115.18D96.12D115.14D13.13D
117.14D84.14D12.14D98.14D14.13D$12.13D14.13D88.18D96.14D15.14D79.13D
15.13D114.18D96.12D114.14D14.14D116.13D85.13D14.13D97.14D16.13D$12.
12D16.13D86.19D95.14D16.14D78.13D16.13D113.19D96.12D114.13D16.13D115.
13D85.13D16.13D96.13D17.13D$11.13D16.13D84.21D95.13D18.13D78.13D17.
12D112.20D96.12D113.13D18.12D114.13D86.13D16.13D95.14D18.12D$11.12D
18.12D83.22D95.12D20.12D78.12D18.12D112.20D96.11D114.13D18.13D112.14D
86.12D18.12D95.13D20.12D$11.12D18.13D80.24D94.13D20.13D76.13D18.13D
110.21D95.12D114.12D19.13D112.13D87.12D18.12D95.13D20.12D$10.13D19.
12D78.26D94.13D20.13D76.13D19.12D109.22D95.12D113.13D20.12D111.13D88.
12D18.12D95.12D21.12D$10.12D20.12D76.28D94.12D22.12D76.12D20.12D108.
23D95.12D113.12D21.9D113.14D88.12D18.12D94.13D22.12D$10.12D20.12D75.
29D94.12D22.12D82.6D19.13D108.23D95.12D113.12D143.13D89.12D18.12D94.
13D22.12D$10.12D20.13D74.29D94.12D22.12D107.13D107.24D95.11D114.11D
143.13D90.12D18.12D94.12D23.12D$9.13D21.12D74.16D.12D94.12D22.12D107.
12D107.12D.12D94.12D113.12D142.14D90.13D16.13D94.12D23.12D$9.12D22.
12D74.15D2.12D98.8D22.12D107.12D107.12D.12D94.12D113.12D142.13D91.13D
16.13D94.12D23.12D$9.12D22.12D74.13D4.12D127.13D106.13D106.12D2.12D
94.12D4.12D97.12D141.13D93.13D14.14D94.12D23.12D$9.12D22.12D74.12D5.
12D127.13D105.14D105.12D3.12D94.12D.18D94.12D7.13D120.14D93.14D13.13D
95.12D23.13D$9.12D22.12D74.10D7.12D127.12D105.14D106.12D3.12D94.33D
92.11D5.19D117.13D94.15D11.14D95.12D23.13D$9.12D22.12D74.7D10.12D126.
13D104.15D105.12D4.12D94.35D90.11D3.23D114.14D95.15D8.15D96.13D22.13D
$9.12D22.12D74.5D12.12D126.13D102.16D105.12D5.12D93.37D89.11D.26D113.
13D97.16D4.16D97.13D22.13D$9.12D22.13D90.12D125.13D101.17D105.13D5.
12D93.39D86.41D110.14D98.34D98.13D21.14D$9.12D23.12D90.12D124.14D95.
22D106.12D6.12D93.40D85.42D109.13D100.32D100.13D20.14D$8.13D23.12D90.
12D124.13D95.22D106.12D7.12D93.40D85.43D107.13D102.30D101.13D19.15D$
8.13D23.12D90.12D123.14D95.21D106.12D8.12D93.41D84.43D107.13D104.26D
103.14D18.15D$8.13D23.12D90.12D122.14D96.20D107.12D8.12D92.19D5.19D
83.44D105.13D103.29D102.15D16.16D$8.12D24.12D90.12D121.15D96.23D103.
12D9.12D92.17D9.18D82.23D4.18D104.13D101.33D101.15D14.17D$8.12D24.12D
90.12D120.15D97.24D101.12D10.12D92.15D13.16D82.20D9.16D104.13D100.36D
99.16D12.18D$8.12D24.12D90.12D119.15D98.26D98.13D10.12D92.14D15.15D
82.19D12.15D102.13D100.38D99.16D9.20D$8.12D24.12D90.12D118.15D99.27D
97.12D11.12D92.13D17.15D81.18D14.14D102.13D99.18D4.18D98.19D4.22D$8.
13D23.12D90.12D117.16D99.5D5.17D96.12D12.12D92.12D19.14D81.17D16.14D
100.13D99.16D10.16D98.44D$8.13D23.12D90.12D116.16D112.16D94.13D12.12D
95.8D21.13D81.16D17.14D100.13D99.15D12.15D99.43D$8.13D23.12D90.12D
115.16D115.15D93.12D13.12D124.14D80.15D19.13D100.12D99.14D16.14D99.
42D$9.12D23.12D90.12D114.16D117.14D92.12D14.12D125.13D80.15D20.13D98.
13D99.13D18.13D100.41D$9.12D22.13D90.12D112.17D119.14D90.13D14.12D
125.13D80.14D21.13D98.13D98.14D18.14D100.40D$9.12D22.12D91.12D111.17D
121.13D89.13D15.12D125.13D80.14D21.13D97.13D99.13D20.13D101.25D2.12D$
9.12D22.12D91.12D110.17D122.13D89.12D16.12D125.13D80.14D22.12D97.13D
99.12D22.12D102.23D3.11D$9.12D22.12D91.12D109.16D125.13D87.12D17.12D
126.12D80.13D23.12D97.12D99.13D22.13D103.19D5.11D$9.12D22.12D91.12D
108.16D126.13D87.50D117.12D81.12D23.12D96.13D99.13D22.13D107.12D7.12D
$9.12D22.12D91.12D106.17D127.13D87.50D117.12D81.12D23.12D96.13D99.12D
24.12D126.12D$9.12D22.12D91.12D105.17D128.13D87.50D117.12D81.12D23.
12D96.12D100.12D24.12D126.12D$9.13D21.12D91.12D104.17D130.12D87.50D
117.12D81.12D23.12D96.12D100.12D24.12D126.12D$10.12D20.13D91.12D103.
17D100.7D24.12D87.50D83.10D23.13D81.12D23.12D95.13D100.12D24.12D126.
11D$10.12D20.12D92.12D102.16D97.13D22.13D87.50D81.13D22.13D81.13D22.
12D95.13D100.12D24.12D125.12D$10.12D20.12D92.12D101.16D98.13D22.13D
87.50D81.13D22.13D82.12D21.13D95.12D101.13D23.12D94.10D21.12D$10.13D
19.12D92.12D100.16D100.12D22.13D87.50D81.13D22.12D83.12D21.12D95.13D
101.13D22.13D93.11D20.13D$10.13D18.13D92.12D99.16D101.12D22.13D87.50D
82.13D20.13D83.13D20.12D95.13D102.12D22.13D93.11D20.12D$11.12D18.12D
93.12D98.16D102.13D20.13D117.12D91.13D20.13D83.13D19.13D95.13D102.13D
21.12D94.12D19.12D$11.13D16.13D93.12D97.16D103.13D20.13D117.12D91.13D
19.14D84.13D18.13D95.12D103.13D20.13D94.12D18.13D$11.13D16.13D93.12D
97.15D105.13D18.14D117.12D91.14D18.13D85.13D17.13D96.12D103.14D19.13D
94.13D16.13D$12.13D14.13D94.12D96.15D106.14D16.14D118.12D92.14D16.14D
85.14D15.14D95.13D104.14D17.13D95.13D15.14D$12.14D12.14D94.12D95.15D
107.14D15.15D118.12D92.15D14.14D87.14D14.13D96.13D104.14D16.14D96.13D
14.13D$13.14D10.14D95.12D95.14D109.15D12.15D119.12D93.15D12.14D89.14D
12.14D96.13D105.15D13.15D96.14D11.15D$13.15D8.15D95.12D94.14D110.16D
9.17D119.12D93.16D9.16D89.16D8.15D97.12D106.16D10.16D98.14D9.15D$14.
16D4.16D96.12D94.46D79.17D5.18D120.12D94.18D4.17D91.17D4.17D97.12D
107.18D4.18D99.16D4.17D$15.34D97.12D93.47D80.38D121.12D95.37D93.36D
98.12D108.38D101.36D$15.34D97.12D93.47D81.36D122.12D95.36D95.34D99.
12D109.36D102.35D$16.32D98.12D93.47D82.34D123.12D96.34D97.32D99.13D
110.34D104.33D$17.30D99.12D92.48D83.32D124.12D98.31D99.30D100.13D111.
32D106.31D$19.26D101.12D92.48D84.29D126.12D99.29D101.28D101.13D112.
30D109.27D$20.24D102.12D92.48D86.25D128.12D101.25D105.24D103.12D115.
26D112.25D$22.20D104.12D92.48D88.21D130.12D103.21D109.20D105.12D117.
22D116.20D$25.14D107.12D92.48D92.14D133.12D107.13D116.14D108.12D121.
14D123.14D34$90.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F8$90.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F2$26.13D$25.15D$25.15D$24.16D
$24.17D$24.17D$23.19D48.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$23.
19D$22.20D$22.21D$22.21D$21.23D1015.2A3.2A$21.23D1016.A3.A$21.24D896.
A117.A6.A2.A$20.25D45.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F81.A.A.2A40.F72.
2A4.5A44.F$20.12D.12D756.A5.2A131.A.A.2A116.2A$19.13D.13D755.3A3.A.A
125.2A2.2A.A116.2A.A.4A$19.12D2.13D758.A4.A125.A.A4.A116.2A.A.A2.A$
19.12D3.13D756.2A3.A.2A125.A.3A121.A$18.13D3.13D761.A.A.A123.2A.A$18.
12D5.12D760.2A.A.A$17.13D5.13D763.A$17.13D5.13D42.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$17.12D7.13D$16.13D7.13D$16.13D7.13D$16.12D
9.13D$15.13D9.13D$15.12D11.13D102.A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.
A$14.13D11.13D102.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.
A$14.13D11.14D38.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A
62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F$14.12D13.13D103.A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.
A127.A$13.13D13.13D$13.13D14.13D113.A129.2A128.A$12.13D15.13D110.A.A.
A2.A125.A.A.2A.A121.A.A$12.13D15.14D107.3A.A.4A127.A.A.2A122.A117.A.
2A$12.13D16.13D106.A5.A130.2A118.A.2A121.3A.2A3.2A.2A117.A.2A$11.13D
17.13D106.2A6.A127.A2.A115.3A.A121.A9.2A.A.A114.3A.A$11.13D17.14D35.F
76.2A49.F77.4A46.F67.A4.A.A52.F67.3A.2A8.A45.F67.A4.A.A52.F127.F127.F
127.F$10.13D19.13D238.A121.4A.2A122.A.A4.5A115.4A.2A$10.46D237.5A120.
A127.A3.A123.A$10.46D241.A117.2A.A127.A.3A.A.2A115.2A.A$9.47D239.A
119.A.A129.A3.2A.2A115.A.A$9.48D238.2A251.2A$9.48D486.2A.A.A$8.50D
485.A.2A.A.A$8.50D32.F127.F127.F127.F74.2A51.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$7.
52D$7.13D25.14D$7.13D26.13D$6.13D27.14D$6.13D28.13D$5.14D28.14D$5.13D
29.14D$5.13D30.13D29.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$4.13D
31.14D$4.13D31.14D$4.13D32.14D$3.13D33.14D$3.13D34.13D$2.14D34.14D$2.
13D35.14D$2.13D36.14D25.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$.
13D37.14D$.13D38.14D$14D38.14D$13D39.14D$13D40.14D$13D40.14D2$90.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$
90.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F5$7.35D$7.40D$7.42D$7.44D39.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F$7.45D$7.46D$7.47D$7.48D$7.48D$7.13D18.18D$7.13D21.15D$7.13D22.
15D33.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$7.13D23.14D$7.13D24.13D$7.13D
25.13D$7.13D25.13D$7.13D25.13D$7.13D25.13D621.2A119.2A3.2A$7.13D25.
13D500.A120.A121.A2.A.A$7.13D25.13D32.F127.F127.F127.F81.3A43.F77.A
49.F69.A3.A2.2A.A47.F$7.13D25.13D497.A121.4A119.4A.A.A.2A$7.13D25.12D
495.A3.A120.A125.A.A$7.13D25.12D494.A.A3.A122.3A117.2A.A.2A$7.13D24.
13D495.2A2.2A122.A2.A116.A.A9.A$7.13D24.12D626.A.A126.A.A$7.13D22.14D
627.A128.A$7.13D21.14D$7.13D18.17D35.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$
7.47D$7.46D$7.44D$7.43D$7.45D$7.46D100.A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.A$7.
48D98.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.A$7.49D34.F62.3A62.F62.3A
62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F$7.50D98.A127.A127.A127.A127.
A127.A$7.13D18.20D$7.13D22.17D$7.13D24.15D$7.13D25.15D$7.13D26.14D
107.2A119.A.2A5.2A119.2A$7.13D27.13D102.2A3.A118.3A.2A5.A.A.2A116.A3.
2A$7.13D27.14D29.F67.2A.A.A4.3A47.F66.A9.A.A.2A.A43.F69.3A4.A.A.2A45.
F127.F127.F127.F$7.13D28.13D97.A.2A.A.A4.A115.3A.2A3.2A119.A4.A.A.2A.
A$7.13D28.13D103.2A122.A.A130.2A$7.13D28.13D227.A.A$7.13D28.13D228.A$
7.13D28.13D$7.13D28.13D$7.13D28.13D$7.13D28.13D29.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F$7.13D28.13D$7.13D27.14D$7.13D27.13D$7.13D26.14D$7.13D
25.15D$7.13D24.15D$7.13D22.17D$7.13D19.19D32.F127.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F$7.51D$7.50D$7.49D$7.48D$7.47D$7.46D$7.44D$7.41D42.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$7.37D7$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$
90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.
F8$90.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F5$28.15D
$23.24D$21.29D$18.34D38.F127.F127.F127.F$17.36D$15.40D$14.42D$13.44D$
12.46D$11.21D7.20D$10.18D14.18D$9.17D18.16D30.F127.F127.F127.F$8.16D
21.16D$7.16D23.16D103.3D$7.15D25.15D104.D$6.15D27.15D103.3D$6.14D29.
14D$5.15D29.14D$5.14D31.14D$4.14D32.14D26.F127.F127.F127.F$4.14D33.
13D$4.13D34.11D$3.14D35.5D$3.14D$3.13D$3.13D272.A$3.13D271.A.A$2.14D
74.F127.F68.A.A9.2A45.F127.F$2.13D270.3A.2A4.2A.A2.A.2A$2.13D269.A10.
A4.A2.2A$2.13D270.3A.2A8.A$2.13D137.A14.2A111.A6.A.2A5.A.A$2.13D137.
3A12.2A111.3A$2.13D140.A127.A$2.13D139.2A18.A.2A104.2A$2.13D75.F83.2A
.A40.F127.F127.F$2.13D$2.13D308.D83.2C$2.13D306.3D83.2C7.D$2.13D289.
2A15.D.D93.D$2.13D289.2A15.D96.D$2.13D138.A127.A137.D$2.13D138.A.A
125.A.A136.D$3.13D74.F62.3A11.2A49.F62.3A62.F60.A.2A.D8.D52.F$3.13D
139.A11.2A114.A11.2A108.3A.2A2.D8.D$3.13D37.5D237.A108.A9.D8.D$3.13D
36.10D234.3A2.2A102.3A.2A4.D8.D$3.14D35.13D233.A2.A105.A.A6.D8.D$4.
13D35.13D237.A104.A.A7.D8.D$4.13D34.14D236.2A105.A9.D8.D$4.14D33.14D
354.D$5.13D33.13D26.F127.F127.F73.D53.F$5.14D31.14D357.D4.2C$6.14D29.
15D358.D2.2C$6.14D29.14D360.D3.C$6.15D27.15D$7.15D25.15D$8.15D23.16D$
8.17D20.16D$9.17D17.17D30.F127.F127.F127.F$10.18D13.19D$10.21D7.21D$
11.47D$12.45D$13.43D$14.41D$16.37D$18.34D38.F127.F127.F127.F$20.30D$
22.25D$27.16D5$90.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F
127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F
8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F4$8.36D$8.41D$8.43D$8.45D$8.47D35.F127.F127.F127.F127.
F127.F127.F127.F$8.48D$8.49D$8.50D$8.51D$8.12D19.21D$8.12D23.18D$8.
12D25.16D$8.12D26.16D28.F127.F65.A61.F62.A64.F127.F70.A56.F62.2A63.F
127.F$8.12D27.16D220.A.A122.A.A130.A130.A.A119.A$8.12D28.15D221.A124.
A131.3A129.A120.A.A$8.12D29.15D480.A250.2A120.2A$8.12D30.14D479.A373.
A$8.12D31.13D216.A2.2A121.A135.A371.2A.A$8.12D31.14D215.4A.A119.A.A
134.2A251.2A117.A2.A.2A$8.12D32.13D220.A120.A388.A120.2A.A$8.12D32.
14D24.F127.F63.3A61.F127.F127.F67.2A58.F62.A.A62.F60.A66.F$8.12D33.
13D216.A387.2A121.2A124.2A$8.12D33.13D$8.12D33.13D$8.12D33.13D86.A
127.A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.A$8.12D34.13D85.3A125.3A125.3A125.3A125.
3A125.3A125.3A$8.12D34.13D88.A23.A103.A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.A$8.
12D34.13D87.2A21.3A102.2A126.2A126.2A126.2A126.2A126.2A$8.12D34.13D
23.F85.A41.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$8.12D34.13D110.A$8.12D34.
13D108.A.A$8.12D34.13D108.2A$8.12D34.13D$8.12D34.13D$8.12D34.13D86.A
21.2A104.A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.A$8.12D34.13D86.A.A19.2A104.A.A125.
A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.A$8.12D34.13D23.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.
3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F$8.12D34.13D88.A127.A127.A
127.A127.A127.A127.A$8.12D34.13D$8.12D34.13D$8.12D34.13D$8.12D34.13D$
8.12D34.13D$8.12D33.13D$8.12D33.13D24.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F$8.12D33.13D$8.12D33.13D$8.12D32.14D$8.12D32.13D$8.12D32.13D$8.
12D31.14D$8.12D30.14D$8.12D30.14D26.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F$8.12D29.14D$8.12D28.15D$8.12D27.15D$8.12D26.16D$8.12D24.17D$8.
12D22.19D$8.12D19.21D$8.51D31.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$8.
50D$8.49D$8.48D$8.47D$8.45D$8.43D$8.40D$8.35D47.F127.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F8$90.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F4$8.51D$8.51D$8.51D$8.51D$8.51D31.F127.F127.F127.F127.
F$8.51D$8.51D$8.51D$8.51D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D70.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D70.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D132.A127.A127.C127.C$8.12D132.3A
125.3A125.3C125.3C$8.12D135.A127.A127.C127.C$8.12D134.2A126.2A126.CAD
125.CAD$8.12D70.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$8.49D$8.49D$8.49D$8.49D$8.49D$
8.49D96.A127.A127.A127.A$8.49D96.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.A$8.49D33.F
62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F$8.49D98.A127.A127.A127.A$8.12D
408.2A2.D$8.12D407.A2.A2.2C$8.12D278.2A127.A.A4.C2.C116.2C$8.12D279.A
128.A5.C.C.C115.2C$8.12D147.2A116.2A4.A6.A103.CAD9.D2C14.AC.C2.C92.CA
D$8.12D142.2A3.A117.A2.A.A.A3.A2.3A101.C11.C2.A2.CDC.C.D3.C2.C96.C19.
A.D2C$8.12D70.F67.2A.A.A4.3A47.F68.2A.A.A2.A.2A2.A44.F53.3C13.6C.2C.C
.C4.C40.F53.3C15.DAC.A.A2.C46.F$8.12D138.A.2A.A.A4.A117.A2.A4.A2.A
100.C25.C.5C95.C14.2C.C.C.C.A2C$8.12D144.2A120.A.A3.4A2.A119.2C6.2C
115.C.2C.C2.C$8.12D266.2A8.2A120.2C9.2C117.C3.3C$8.12D274.2A134.C117.
2C4.C$8.12D273.A.A133.C$8.12D274.A134.2C$8.12D$8.12D70.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.53D29.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F$8.53D$8.53D$8.53D$8.53D$8.53D$8.53D$8.53D$8.53D29.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F
8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F3$10.48D$10.
48D$10.48D$10.48D$10.48D$10.48D32.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.
F$10.48D$10.48D$10.48D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D68.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.
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12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.43D37.F63.C63.F63.C63.F63.C
63.F63.C63.F63.C63.F63.C63.F63.C63.F$10.43D$10.43D$10.43D$10.43D$10.
43D$10.43D$10.43D$10.43D37.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$10.
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10.12D$10.12D68.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$10.12D$10.12D$
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F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F!
dvgrn
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Posts: 3995
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Kazyan » February 5th, 2015, 2:16 am

Exploring catalysis of the lower plume of Herschel + early eater, found a catalyst, fiddled with it, and got a lead on something that could be a big deal.

x = 18, y = 30, rule = B3/S23
10bo$10b3o$13bo$12b2o5$o$3o$3bo$2b2o7$bo$bobo$b3o$3bo4$10bo2bo2b2o$10b
4o3bo$14b3o$12bobo$12b2o!


The upper eater doesn't have to be an eater (the reaction isn't that sensitive), and there's room to Bellman-ize the right at generation 60 or so, in order to kick something back at the tub and neutralize all the stuff we don't want. Snark assistance could make this easy, but I'd really love to see a H-to-LWSS about the size of a normal conduit...!
Tanner Jacobi
User avatar
Kazyan
 
Posts: 705
Joined: February 6th, 2014, 11:02 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Sokwe » February 5th, 2015, 2:31 am

dvgrn wrote:I've put together a matrix of Bellman results posted so far...

There is a problem with 6B. Here is a correction:
x = 21, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
7b2o3b2o$8bo2bobo$7bo3bo2b2obo$7b4obobob2o$10bobo$7b2obob2o$7bobo9bo$
18bobo$19bo8$o$obo$3o$2bo!

Also, 1B can be made much less obtrusive:
x = 18, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
o$obo$3o$2bo5$14b2o$9b2o3bo$5b2obobo4b3o$5bob2obobo4bo$11b2o!


Other than those issues, one should probably use the versions in Dave's collection when searching for new conduits, as they are about as unobtrusive as possible. I bothered to minimize the current reactions by bounding box anyway, but it sometimes makes the still lifes more obtrusive:
x = 1210, y = 872, rule = LifeHistory
24.2F13D2F347.2F13DF380.2F14D2F237.F14DF122.F14DF$21.F20DF223.2F14D2F
101.F20DF240.37D97.2F20DF232.F20DF116.F20DF$19.F24DF104.9D105.2F21DF
96.F24D129.F11D98.37D95.F25DF92.47D89.F24DF112.F24DF$18.F27D102.10D
103.F26DF93.28D126.F12D97.F37D94.F27DF91.47D88.28D110.28D$17.F29D101.
10D102.F29D91.30D125.13D97.F37D93.31D90.47D87.30D108.30D$16.F31D99.
11D101.32D89.32D123.F13D97.38D92.33D89.47D86.32D106.32D$15.F33D97.12D
100.34D87.34D121.F14D97.38D91.35D88.47D85.34D104.34D$14.F34DF95.13D
99.36D85.36D120.15D97.38D90.36DF87.47D84.36D102.36D$14.16D4F16D94.F
13D98.38D83.F16D4F17D118.F15D96.F38D89.F17D3F17DF86.47D83.17DF2.F17D
100.18D4F16D$13.15DF6.F15D92.F14D97.18DF2.F18D82.15DF6.F15DF116.F16D
96.F38D88.F15D2F5.F16D86.47D82.F15DF6.F15DF99.16DF6.F15D$13.14D10.14D
F90.F15D97.15DF8.F16D80.15DF9.F14D115.F17D96.12DF114.15DF9.F14D86.46D
F82.15D10.15D98.15DF10.F14D$12.14D12.14D89.17D96.15DF10.F15DF79.14D
13.13DF114.18D96.12D114.F14DF11.F13DF116.14DF83.14D12.14D97.F14DF13.
13D$12.13D14.13DF87.18D95.F14D14.F14D78.F13D14.F13D113.F18D96.12D114.
14DF13.14D115.F13DF83.F13D14.13DF96.14DF14.F13D$11.F12D16.13D86.19D
95.14D16.14D78.13DF15.13D112.F19D96.12D113.F13DF14.F13D114.F13DF84.
13DF15.13D95.F13DF16.13D$11.13D16.13D84.21D95.13D18.13D78.13D16.F12D
112.20D95.F12D113.13DF16.F12DF112.F13DF85.13D16.13D95.14D18.12DF$11.
12DF17.12DF82.22D94.F12DF18.F12DF76.F12DF17.12DF110.F20D95.F11DF113.
13D18.13D112.14D86.12DF16.F12D95.13DF19.12D$10.F12D18.13D80.24D94.13D
20.13D76.13D18.13D109.F21D95.12DF112.F12DF18.13D111.F13DF86.12D18.12D
95.13D20.12D$10.13D19.12D78.26D94.13D20.13D76.13D18.F12D108.F22D95.
12D113.13D19.F12D110.F13DF87.12D18.12D94.F12DF20.12DF$10.12DF19.12D
76.28D94.12DF20.F12D76.12DF18.F12D108.23D95.12D113.12DF20.9D3F110.14D
88.12D18.12D94.13D21.F12D$9.F12D20.12DF74.29D94.12D22.12D79.3F6D19.
13D107.F23D94.F12D113.12D142.F13DF88.12D18.12D94.13D22.12D$9.F12D20.
13D74.29D94.12D22.12D107.13D106.F24D94.F11DF112.F11DF142.13DF89.12DF
16.F12D94.12DF22.12D$9.13D20.F12D74.16DF12D94.12D22.12D107.12DF106.
12DF12D94.12DF112.12D142.14D90.13D16.13D94.12DF22.12D$9.12DF20.F12D
74.15DF.12D95.3F8D21.F12D106.F12DF105.F12D.12D94.12D113.12D141.F13DF
90.13D15.F13D94.12D23.12DF$9.12D22.12D74.13DF3.12D127.13D106.13D105.F
12DF.12D94.12D3.F12DF96.12D140.F13DF91.F13D14.14D94.12D23.12DF$9.12D
22.12D74.12DF4.12D127.13D105.14D105.12DF2.12D94.12DF18DF93.12D5.2F13D
F119.14D93.14D12.F13D95.12D23.13D$9.12D22.12D74.10DF6.12D126.F12DF
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12DF22.13D$9.12D22.12D74.7DF9.12D126.13DF103.15D104.F12DF3.12D93.F35D
F88.F11DF.F23DF113.13DF95.15DF6.F15D96.13D22.13D$8.F12D22.12DF73.5DF
11.12D125.F13D101.F16D104.F12DF4.12D93.37DF87.F11DF26DF111.F13D97.16D
4F16D97.13D21.F13D$8.F12D22.13D90.12D125.13DF99.F17D105.13D5.12D93.
39D86.41D110.13DF98.34D98.13DF20.14D$8.F12D22.F12D90.12D124.14D95.22D
105.F12DF5.12D93.40D85.42D108.F13D100.32D99.F13D19.F14D$8.13D22.F12D
90.12D123.F13DF94.22D105.F12DF6.12D92.F40DF84.43D107.13DF101.30D101.
13D19.15D$8.13D23.12D90.12D123.14D95.21DF105.12DF7.12D92.F41DF83.43DF
105.F13D103.F26DF102.14D17.F15D$8.13D23.12D90.12D122.14DF95.20DF105.F
12D8.12D92.19D2F.2F19D83.44DF104.13DF101.F29DF101.15D15.F16D$8.12DF
23.12D90.12D121.15D96.23DF101.F12DF8.12D92.17DF7.F18D82.23D4F18D103.F
13D101.33DF99.F15D13.F17D$8.12DF23.12D90.12D120.15D97.24DF99.F12DF9.
12D92.15D12.F16DF81.20D2F6.F16DF102.F13D100.36D99.16D11.F18D$8.12DF
23.12D90.12D119.15D98.26D98.13D10.12D92.14DF13.F15DF81.19DF10.F15D
102.13DF99.38D99.16DF8.20D$8.12DF23.12D90.12D118.15DF98.27D97.12DF10.
12D91.F13DF15.F15D81.18DF12.F14DF100.F13D99.18DF2.F18D98.18D2F2.F22D$
8.13D23.12D90.12D116.F16D99.5DF3.F17DF94.F12DF11.12D91.F12DF17.F14DF
80.17DF14.F14D100.13DF98.16DF8.F16D98.44D$8.13D23.12D90.12D115.F16D
111.F16D94.13D12.12D92.3F8DF19.F13DF80.16DF16.14D100.13D99.15D12.15DF
98.43D$8.13D22.F12D90.12D114.F16D114.F15D92.F12DF12.12D124.14D80.15DF
17.F13DF98.F12DF98.14DF14.F14D99.42D$8.F12D22.F12D90.12D113.F16D117.
14DF90.F12DF13.12D124.F13D80.15D19.F13D98.13DF97.F13DF16.F13DF99.41D$
8.F12D22.13D90.12D112.17D119.14D89.F13D14.12D124.F13D80.14DF20.13D97.
F13D98.14D18.14D100.40D$8.F12D22.12DF90.12D110.F17DF119.F13D89.13DF
14.12D125.13D80.14D21.13D97.13DF98.13D20.13D101.25D2F12D$9.12D22.12D
91.12D109.F17DF121.13DF87.F12DF15.12D125.13D80.14D21.F12D96.F13D98.F
12DF20.F12DF101.23D2.F11DF$9.12D22.12D91.12D108.F16DF123.F13D87.12DF
16.12D125.F12D80.13DF21.F12D96.F12DF98.13D22.13D103.19DF3.F11DF$9.12D
22.12D91.12D107.F16DF125.13D87.50D116.F12D80.F12DF22.12D96.13DF98.13D
22.13D105.2F12DF6.12D$9.12D22.12D91.12D106.17DF126.13D87.50D117.12D
80.F12D23.12D96.13D99.12DF22.F12D126.12D$9.12DF20.F12D91.12D104.F17DF
127.13D87.50D116.F12D81.12D23.12D95.F12DF99.12D24.12D126.12D$9.13D20.
F12D91.12D103.F17DF128.F12D87.50D116.F12D81.12DF22.12D95.F12DF99.12D
24.12D126.12D$9.F12D20.13D91.12D102.F17DF96.3F7D23.F12D87.50D81.2F10D
23.13D81.12DF21.F12D95.13D100.12D24.12D125.F11DF$9.F12D20.12DF91.12D
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12D125.12DF$10.12DF19.12D92.12D101.16DF97.13D22.13D87.50D81.13DF20.F
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12D100.16DF98.F12DF21.13D87.50D81.13DF20.F12DF81.F12DF20.12DF94.13DF
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11.12DF16.F12DF92.12D98.16D102.13D20.13DF116.12D90.F13DF18.F13D83.13D
F18.13D95.13D102.13D20.F12DF93.12D18.F12D$11.13D16.13D93.12D97.16D
103.13DF19.13D117.12D91.13DF18.14D83.F13D17.F13D94.F12DF102.13DF19.
13D94.12DF17.13D$11.13D15.F13D93.12D96.F15D104.F13DF17.14D117.12D91.
14D17.F13DF84.13DF15.F13DF94.F12DF102.14D18.F13D94.13D16.13DF$12.13D
14.13DF93.12D96.15D106.14D16.14DF117.12D91.F14D15.F14D85.14DF14.14D
95.13D103.F14DF15.F13DF94.13DF14.14D$12.14D12.14D94.12D95.15D107.14DF
14.15D118.12D92.15D13.F14DF86.14DF12.F13DF95.13D104.14D2F13.F14D95.F
13D13.F13DF$13.14D10.14DF94.12D94.F14D108.F15DF10.F15DF118.12D92.F15D
11.F14DF87.F14DF10.F14D96.13D104.F15D12.F15D96.14D11.15D$13.15DF7.15D
95.12D94.14DF109.16DF7.F17D119.12D93.16DF7.F16D89.16DF6.F15DF96.12DF
105.16DF8.F16D97.F14DF7.F15D$14.16D2F.F16D96.12D93.F46D79.17DF3.F18D
120.12D93.F18D4F17D91.17D4F17D96.F12DF106.18DF2.F18D99.16DF2.F17DF$
14.F34DF96.12D93.47D80.38D121.12D94.F37D93.36D97.F12D108.38D100.F36D$
15.34D97.12D93.47D81.36D122.12D95.36D95.34D98.F12D109.36D102.35D$16.
32D98.12D92.F47D82.34D123.12D96.34D97.32D99.13D110.34D104.33D$17.30D
99.12D92.48D83.32D124.12D97.F31D99.30D100.13D111.32D106.31D$18.F26DF
100.12D92.48D84.29DF125.12D98.F29D101.28D101.13D112.30D108.F27DF$20.
24D102.12D92.48D86.25DF127.12D100.F25D104.F24D103.12DF113.F26D112.25D
F$22.20DF103.12D92.48D87.F21DF129.12D102.F21DF107.F20DF104.12DF115.F
22DF114.F20DF$24.F14DF106.12D92.48D90.2F14DF132.12D105.2F13D2F112.2F
14D2F106.12DF118.2F14D2F119.2F14DF34$90.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
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7.F7.F7.F7.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F
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$25.15D$25.15D$24.16D$24.17D$24.17D$23.19D48.F127.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F$23.19D$22.20D$22.21D$22.21D$21.23D$21.23D$21.24D
1014.A.2A.2A$20.25D45.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F70.3A.A3.A
48.F$20.12D.12D756.A5.2A129.2A116.A5.2A$19.13D.13D755.3A3.A.A122.A.2A
.A.3A115.A.2A.A.4A$19.12D2.13D758.A4.A122.2A.A.A4.A113.2A.2A.A.A2.A$
19.12D3.13D756.2A3.A.2A125.A.3A121.A$18.13D3.13D761.A.A.A123.2A.A$18.
12D5.12D760.2A.A.A$17.13D5.13D763.A$17.13D5.13D42.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$17.12D7.13D$16.13D7.13D$16.13D7.13D$16.12D
9.13D$15.13D9.13D$15.12D11.13D102.A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.
A$14.13D11.13D102.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.
A$14.13D11.14D38.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A
62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F$14.12D13.13D103.A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.
A127.A$13.13D13.13D$13.13D14.13D113.A129.2A128.A$12.13D15.13D110.A.A.
A2.A125.A.A126.A.A127.2A$12.13D15.14D107.3A.A.4A127.A127.A117.A.2A8.A
$12.13D16.13D106.A5.A130.2A.2A115.A.2A121.3A.2A3.2A.A118.A.2A$11.13D
17.13D106.2A6.A127.A2.A.A113.3A.A121.A9.2A.2A115.3A.A$11.13D17.14D35.
F76.2A49.F77.3A47.F67.A4.A.A.2A49.F67.3A.2A54.F67.A4.A.A.2A49.F127.F
127.F127.F$10.13D19.13D238.A121.3A.A.2A.A119.A.A4.5A115.3A.A.2A.A$10.
46D237.4A120.2A125.A2.A2.A5.A116.2A$10.46D240.A248.A.A3.2A2.2A$9.47D
239.A248.2A.A.A.A$9.48D238.2A251.2A2.A$9.48D494.2A$8.50D$8.50D32.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$7.52D$7.13D25.14D$7.13D26.
13D$6.13D27.14D$6.13D28.13D$5.14D28.14D$5.13D29.14D$5.13D30.13D29.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$4.13D31.14D$4.13D31.14D$4.
13D32.14D$3.13D33.14D$3.13D34.13D$2.14D34.14D$2.13D35.14D$2.13D36.14D
25.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$.13D37.14D$.13D38.14D$
14D38.14D$13D39.14D$13D40.14D$13D40.14D2$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.
F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F5$7.35D$7.40D
$7.42D$7.44D39.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$7.45D$7.46D$7.47D$7.
48D$7.48D$7.13D18.18D$7.13D21.15D$7.13D22.15D33.F127.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F$7.13D23.14D$7.13D24.13D$7.13D25.13D$7.13D25.13D$7.13D25.
13D$7.13D25.13D621.2A119.2A3.2A$7.13D25.13D621.A121.A2.A.A$7.13D25.
13D32.F127.F127.F127.F127.F77.A49.F69.A3.A2.2A.A47.F$7.13D25.13D619.
4A119.4A.A.A.2A$7.13D25.12D495.A124.A125.A.A$7.13D25.12D494.A.A126.3A
117.2A.A.2A$7.13D24.13D495.2A2.2A122.A2.A116.A.A9.A$7.13D24.12D500.2A
124.A.A126.A.A$7.13D22.14D627.A128.A$7.13D21.14D$7.13D18.17D35.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$7.47D$7.46D$7.44D$7.43D$7.45D$7.46D100.A
127.A127.A127.A127.A127.A$7.48D98.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.
A.A$7.49D34.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F$
7.50D98.A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.A$7.13D18.20D$7.13D22.17D$7.13D24.
15D$7.13D25.15D$7.13D26.14D107.2A119.A.2A5.2A119.2A$7.13D27.13D102.2A
3.A118.3A.2A5.A.A.2A116.A3.2A$7.13D27.14D29.F67.2A.A.A4.3A47.F66.A9.A
.A.2A.A43.F69.3A4.A.A.2A45.F127.F127.F127.F$7.13D28.13D97.A.2A.A.A4.A
115.3A.2A3.2A119.A4.A.A.2A.A$7.13D28.13D103.2A122.2A2.A128.2A$7.13D
28.13D230.2A$7.13D28.13D$7.13D28.13D$7.13D28.13D$7.13D28.13D$7.13D28.
13D29.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$7.13D28.13D$7.13D27.14D$7.13D
27.13D$7.13D26.14D$7.13D25.15D$7.13D24.15D$7.13D22.17D$7.13D19.19D32.
F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$7.51D$7.50D$7.49D$7.48D$7.47D$7.46D$
7.44D$7.41D42.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$7.37D7$90.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.
F127.F127.F127.F5$28.15D$23.24D$21.29D$18.34D38.F127.F127.F127.F$17.
36D$15.40D$14.42D$13.44D$12.46D$11.21D7.20D$10.18D14.18D$9.17D18.16D
30.F127.F127.F127.F$8.16D21.16D$7.16D23.16D103.3D$7.15D25.15D104.D$6.
15D27.15D103.3D$6.14D29.14D$5.15D29.14D$5.14D31.14D$4.14D32.14D26.F
127.F127.F127.F$4.14D33.13D$4.13D34.11D$3.14D35.5D$3.14D$3.13D$3.13D$
3.13D274.2A$2.14D74.F127.F68.2A2.A7.2A45.F127.F$2.13D270.3A.2A4.2A.A
2.A.2A$2.13D269.A10.A4.A2.2A$2.13D270.3A.2A8.A$2.13D137.A14.2A111.A6.
A.2A5.A.A$2.13D137.3A12.2A111.3A$2.13D140.A127.A$2.13D139.2A18.A.2A
104.2A$2.13D75.F83.2A.A40.F127.F127.F$2.13D$2.13D308.D83.2C$2.13D306.
3D83.2C7.D$2.13D289.2A15.D.D93.D$2.13D289.2A15.D96.D$2.13D138.A127.A
137.D$2.13D138.A.A125.A.A136.D$3.13D74.F62.3A11.2A49.F62.3A62.F60.A.
2A.D8.D52.F$3.13D139.A11.2A114.A11.2A108.3A.2A2.D8.D$3.13D37.5D237.A
108.A9.D8.D$3.13D36.10D234.3A2.2A102.3A.2A4.D8.D$3.14D35.13D233.A2.A
105.A.A6.D8.D$4.13D35.13D237.A104.A.A7.D8.D$4.13D34.14D236.2A105.A9.D
8.D$4.14D33.14D354.D$5.13D33.13D26.F127.F127.F73.D53.F$5.14D31.14D
357.D4.2C$6.14D29.15D358.D2.2C$6.14D29.14D360.D3.C$6.15D27.15D$7.15D
25.15D$8.15D23.16D$8.17D20.16D$9.17D17.17D30.F127.F127.F127.F$10.18D
13.19D$10.21D7.21D$11.47D$12.45D$13.43D$14.41D$16.37D$18.34D38.F127.F
127.F127.F$20.30D$22.25D$27.16D5$90.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F
127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F4$8.36D$8.41D$8.43D$8.45D$8.47D35.
F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$8.48D$8.49D$8.50D$8.51D$8.12D19.
21D$8.12D23.18D$8.12D25.16D$8.12D26.16D28.F127.F65.A61.F62.A64.F127.F
70.A56.F62.2A63.F127.F$8.12D27.16D220.A.A122.A.A130.A130.A.A119.A$8.
12D28.15D221.A124.A131.3A129.A120.A.A$8.12D29.15D480.A250.2A120.2A$8.
12D30.14D479.A373.A$8.12D31.13D216.A2.2A121.A135.A371.2A.A$8.12D31.
14D215.4A.A119.A.A134.2A251.2A117.A2.A.2A$8.12D32.13D220.A120.A388.A
120.2A.A$8.12D32.14D24.F127.F63.3A61.F127.F127.F67.2A58.F62.A.A62.F
60.A66.F$8.12D33.13D216.A387.2A121.2A124.2A$8.12D33.13D$8.12D33.13D$
8.12D33.13D86.A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.A$8.12D34.13D85.3A125.3A
125.3A125.3A125.3A125.3A125.3A$8.12D34.13D88.A23.A103.A127.A127.A127.
A127.A127.A$8.12D34.13D87.2A21.3A102.2A126.2A126.2A126.2A126.2A126.2A
$8.12D34.13D23.F85.A41.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$8.12D34.13D
110.A$8.12D34.13D108.A.A$8.12D34.13D108.2A$8.12D34.13D$8.12D34.13D$8.
12D34.13D86.A21.2A104.A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.A$8.12D34.13D86.A.A19.
2A104.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.A125.A.A$8.12D34.13D23.F62.3A62.F
62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F62.3A62.F$8.12D34.13D88.
A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.A127.A$8.12D34.13D$8.12D34.13D$8.12D34.13D$
8.12D34.13D$8.12D34.13D$8.12D33.13D$8.12D33.13D24.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F$8.12D33.13D$8.12D33.13D$8.12D32.14D$8.12D32.13D$
8.12D32.13D$8.12D31.14D$8.12D30.14D$8.12D30.14D26.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F$8.12D29.14D$8.12D28.15D$8.12D27.15D$8.12D26.16D$
8.12D24.17D$8.12D22.19D$8.12D19.21D$8.51D31.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.
F127.F127.F$8.50D$8.49D$8.48D$8.47D$8.45D$8.43D$8.40D$8.35D47.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F8$90.F127.F8$90.F127.F8$90.F127.F4$8.51D$8.51D$8.
51D$8.51D$8.51D31.F127.F$8.51D$8.51D$8.51D$8.51D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.
12D70.F127.F$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D70.F127.F
$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D70.F127.F$8.49D$8.49D
$8.49D$8.49D$8.49D$8.49D$8.49D$8.49D33.F63.C63.F$8.49D$8.12D$8.12D$8.
12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D70.F127.F$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.
12D$8.12D$8.12D70.F127.F$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.12D$8.
53D29.F127.F$8.53D$8.53D$8.53D$8.53D$8.53D$8.53D$8.53D$8.53D29.F127.F
8$90.F127.F8$90.F127.F8$90.F127.F8$90.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F
7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F3$10.48D
$10.48D$10.48D$10.48D$10.48D$10.48D32.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F$10.48D$10.48D$10.48D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D68.F127.
F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$
10.12D$10.12D$10.12D68.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$10.12D$
10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.43D37.F63.C63.F63.C63.F
63.C63.F63.C63.F63.C63.F63.C63.F63.C63.F$10.43D$10.43D$10.43D$10.43D$
10.43D$10.43D$10.43D$10.43D37.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$
10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D68.F127.F127.F
127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$
10.12D$10.12D68.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F$10.12D$10.12D$
10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D68.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.
F127.F127.F$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$10.12D$90.F127.
F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F
127.F8$90.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F127.F8$90.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.
F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F7.F!


Here is the reduction of the p485 gun:
x = 106, y = 57, rule = B3/S23
76bo$19b2o47bo5b3o$12b2o5b2o45b3o4bo$12b2o51bo7b2o$48b2o15b2o$48bo$14b
2o17b2o14bo38bo$14b2o17bo14b2o36b3o$8b2o21bobo45b2o4bo$8b2o21b2o46b2o
4b2o$45bo$41b2obo3b2o$41b3o4b2o$43b2o2b2o$38b2o6b3o$37b2o3bo3bo54b2o$
38b2ob2o3bobo53bo$39b4o4bo54bob2o$8b2o37bo53b2o2bo$9bo90bo2bo$9bobo40b
2o47b3obo$5bo4b2o23b2o16bo50b2o$5b3o27bo14b3o6bo41b2o$8bo27b3o11bo7bob
o40b2ob2o$7b2o29bo20bo5b2o37bo$30bo35bo7bob2o23b2obo$29bobo31b3o6b3ob
2o23bobo$29bobo31bo7bo$28b2ob3o38b3ob2o$34bo7bo31bobo$2bobo23b2ob3o6b
3o31bobo$bob2o23b2obo7bo35bo$bo37b2o5bo20bo29b2o$2ob2o40bobo7bo11b3o
27bo$3b2o41bo6b3o14bo27b3o$2o50bo16b2o29bo$ob3o47b2o$2bo2bo$o2b2o53bo$
2obo54bo4b4o$3bo53bobo3b2ob2o$3b2o54bo3bo3b2o$57b3o6b2o$57b2o2b2o$56b
2o4b3o$56b2o3bob2o40bo$60bo42bobo$19b2o4b2o46b2o21b2o6b2o$20bo4b2o45bo
bo21b2o$17b3o36b2o14bo17b2o$17bo38bo14b2o17b2o$57bo$39b2o15b2o$31b2o7b
o51b2o$32bo4b3o45b2o5b2o$29b3o5bo47b2o$29bo!


Kazyan wrote:Exploring catalysis of the lower plume of Herschel + early eater, found a catalyst, fiddled with it, and got a lead on something that could be a big deal...

Cool find! Although, I'm skeptical that we'll get a direct H->LWSS (but I've eaten my words many times before, so who knows).
-Matthias Merzenich
Sokwe
Moderator
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: July 9th, 2009, 2:44 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » February 5th, 2015, 2:50 am

Kazyan wrote:I'd really love to see a H-to-LWSS about the size of a normal conduit...!

That would indeed be awesome. I've seen enough *WSSes pop out of Seeds of Destruction Game investigation, to be fairly confident that there's something like that out there.

I'm not sure this particular reaction has a high probability of working out, though. The spark left over from the LWSS creation seems awfully aggressive, and only four ticks after the LWSS shows up it's unstoppable (assuming an eater in that top location, but there does have to be something there.) Even Snark assistance might be difficult to arrange, but I've only tried spot-checks for supporting gliders so far.

I guess the pattern below shows that the thing isn't completely impossible: in the event that Bellman could convert the tub into this block, then at least we wouldn't lose the top catalyst. I tried twenty other tub-to-junk conversions and they all destroyed the top eater, though...

x = 26, y = 30, rule = LifeHistory
16.A$16.3A$19.A$18.2A3$20.ABA$19.BABAB$6.A10.BA3BA2B$6.3A7.2AB4A2BA$
9.A7.8A$8.2A3.B3.6BA$8.8B.6B$10.15B$10.15B$9.17B$7.8B2A9B$5.10B2A9B$
5.21B$4.10B.9B$5.9B2.6B$4.10B2.6B$3.10B4.5B$2.4B12.4B$.4B12.2B.2B$4B
12.A2.AB.2A$16.4A3.A$20.3A$18.A.A$18.2A!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Kazyan » February 5th, 2015, 2:54 am

Ah, well. I'll let the Bellman search run overnight on the off-chance it works, but at least this shows that H-to-LWSS is a thing that could actually be found at some point. Guess we'll have to settle for Simkin's Snark-assisted converter for now!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » February 5th, 2015, 3:13 am

Sokwe wrote:There is a problem with 6B. Here is a correction:
...
Also, 1B can be made much less obtrusive...

Thanks! I've substituted in the new B1 and B6 in the original matrix posting. I'm using the standard Herschel orientation from Hersrch for all the patterns, by the way -- hopefully that change won't cause more problems than it solves.

Kazyan wrote:Ah, well. I'll let the Bellman search run overnight on the off-chance it works.

Definitely! Don't let us nay-sayers drag you down. A surprising number of discoveries have been made by people who didn't know the conventional wisdom about what was likely to work...!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » February 5th, 2015, 7:32 am

I've started running basic 3-catalyst catgl searches on each likely candidate, starting from the upper left corner of the matrix. Who konws how far I'll get -- anyone interested in helping out could try starting from the lower right corner, and maybe we'll meet in the middle.

A1 turns out to be a variant of the block-and-eater catalyst found in the L112 and H-to-G#19. It doesn't work in quite the same way -- depending on the next catalysis, it can leave a blinker behind. This turns out to allow for a new even-period-only period doubler (right side of the following pattern):

x = 204, y = 45, rule = LifeHistory
195.B$194.3D$194.BDB$193.3D2B$193.5B$192.6B$192.6B$71.4B118.5B$29.A
42.4B117.6B$28.A.A42.4B49.4B62.6B$28.A.A43.4B10.C38.4B61.7B$27.2A.3A
42.4B7.3C39.4B61.6B$28.B4.A42.4B5.C43.4B10.A49.6B$19.3B5.2AB3A44.4B3.
DAC43.4B7.3A49.6B$19.4B4.2A.A47.9B44.4B5.A51.8B$20.9B48.8B47.4B4.2A
49.8B$19.8B44.2C3.11B46.9B49.9B$13.2A3.11B43.C4.11B44.8B51.9B$14.A4.
11B42.C.CB.11B38.2A3.11B48.10B$14.A.AB.11B43.CAB.12B38.A4.11B47.3B2A
5B$15.2AB.12B43.D14B38.A.AB.11B41.2A3.4B2A5B$17.14B34.2C8.15B38.2AB.
12B41.A3.11B$7.2A8.15B34.C8.15B40.14B41.A.A12B$8.A8.15B34.C.CB6.14B
30.2A8.15B35.2A4.2A2.8B$8.A.AB6.14B35.CAB.3B3.14B30.A8.15B36.A9.7B4.
2A$9.2AB.3B3.14B35.D21B31.A.AB6.14B36.A.AB7.6B4.A$11.22B36.21B32.2AB.
3B3.14B36.2AB.3B3.6B.BA.A$11.21B38.20B34.22B38.14B.B2A$12.20B2A35.21B
34.21B39.16B$11.21BA.A32.17B3.DAC35.20B40.14B$9.20B5.A30.19B4.C35.21B
39.16B$7.19B.B6.2A29.2BC15B6.3C30.21B2A37.18B$7.2BC15B39.3BCBC4B.7B9.
C28.19B.B2.A36.19B$6.3BCBC4B.7B41.2B3C4B2.6B38.2BC15B6.3A33.2BC15B$7.
2B3C4B2.6B40.5BC4B3.5B37.3BCBC4B.7B9.A32.3BCBC4B.3BD3B$6.5BC4B3.6B38.
10B5.B.3B37.2B3C4B2.6B43.2B3C4B2.2BD3B$5.10B6.4B37.4B10.D3BA3BD34.5BC
4B3.6B41.5BC4B3.BD3B$4.4B12.B2A2B37.3B12.C.C.A2.C33.10B6.4B40.10B5.B.
3B$3.4B14.2A.B2A33.4B11.3C.C.4C32.4B12.B2A2B39.4B11.3BA3B$2.4B18.BA.A
32.CAD11.C5.C35.4B14.2A.B2A37.3B12.A.A.A2.A$2.2A23.A33.C12.2C6.C32.4B
18.BA.A34.4B11.3A.A.4A$3.A23.2A29.3C20.2C32.2A23.A34.2A12.A5.A$3A55.C
57.A23.2A34.A12.2A6.A$A112.3A57.3A20.2A$113.A59.A!

Some variants of H-to-G#19 also came up. I think I remember someone discovering that the eater2 in H-to-G#19 can be replaced by a fishhook eater, but it turns out there's also an alternate placement of another eater that turns H-to-G#19 into a new transparent Spartan glider inserter. We don't have very many of those. It's not an edge-shooter, unfortunately; Spartan edge-shooters are even rarer.

EDIT: This search also rediscovers H-to-G#5, another potentially Spartan transparent inserter. Here again, through sheer luck, the new conduit is interchangeable with the old block-and-eater combination:

x = 152, y = 68, rule = LifeHistory
12.4B$13.4B$14.4B$15.4B$16.4B$17.4B$18.4B$19.4B$20.4B$21.4B$22.4B$23.
4B$24.4B7.2A$25.4B5.B2CB$26.B80.2A$107.2A2$46.2A$21.2A23.A$22.A21.A.A
71.2A$22.A.A19.CA47.2A23.A$23.2A19.B49.A21.A.A$94.A.A19.2A$44.2B49.2A
$44.BCA$44.BCA$44.2B2$23.A$23.A.A$23.3A69.A$25.A69.A.A$95.3A$33.3BC3B
57.A$33.A.A.C2.A$31.3A.A.4A66.2A$16.2A12.A5.A70.2A2.2A$17.A12.2A6.A
72.A.A$14.3A20.2A49.2A23.A$14.A74.A23.2A$86.3A$86.A!

The search found H-to-G #10 as well, also seems to have turned up a new Spartan H-to-G -- #5 is on NW newlane 19, #10 is on NW newlane 18, #19 is on NW newlane 30, but this one is on NW newlane 15:

#C Spartan (but not transparent) H-to-northwest-G on newlane 15
x = 32, y = 33, rule = LifeHistory
.4B12.A$2.4B11.3A$3.4B13.A$4.4B11.2A$5.4B10.5B6.2A$6.4B11.4B5.A$7.4B
9.6B.BA.A$8.4B7.7B.B2A$9.4B4.11B$10.4B3.11B$11.17B$7.2A3.15B$8.A4.13B
$8.A.AB2.12B2.2A$9.2AB.15BA.A$11.16B3.A$11.16B3.2A$12.15B$11.15B$9.
17B$7.19B$7.2BC15B$6.3BCBC4B.7B$7.2B3C4B2.6B$6.5BC4B3.6B$5.10B6.4B$4.
4B12.B2A2B$4.3B14.2A.B2A$2.4B18.BA.A$2.2A23.A$3.A23.2A$3A$A!


And another one, a rare northeastward glider output, one cell away from the old L156-based H-to-G (which was NE lane 9):

#C transparent Spartan H-to-G on NE lane 8
x = 46, y = 31, rule = LifeHistory
37.4B$36.4B$20.A14.4B$20.3A11.4B$23.A9.4B$22.2A8.4B$10.2A10.6B3.4B$
11.A12.5B.4B$11.A.AB7.11B$12.2A5B3.13B$14.20B2A$14.20B2A$15.20B$14.
21B$12.20B$10.21B$10.2BA15B.4B$9.3BABA4B.7B4.2A$10.2B3A4B2.6B4.A$9.5B
A4B3.6B4.3A$8.10B6.4B6.A$7.4B12.B2A2B$7.3B14.2A.B2A$5.4B18.BA.A$5.2A
23.A$6.A23.2A$3.3A$3.A!

Here again, if the Bellman-generated catalyst is used instead of the old block-and-eater constellation, the result is an even-period-only period doubler:

x = 38, y = 28, rule = LifeHistory
34.A3B$33.B2AB$17.A14.BABA$17.3A11.4B$20.A9.4B$19.2A8.4B$7.2A10.6B3.
4B$8.A12.5B.4B$8.A.AB7.11B$9.2A5B3.13B$11.20B2A$11.20B2A$12.20B$11.
21B$9.20B$7.21B$7.2BA15B.4B$6.3BABA4B.3BA3B4.2A$7.2B3A4B2.2BA3B4.A$6.
5BA4B3.BA4B4.3A$5.10B5.B.D2B6.A$4.4B11.3BC3B$4.3B12.A.A.C2.A$2.4B11.
3A.A.4A$2.AC12.A5.A$3.A12.2A6.A$3A20.2A$A!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby biggiemac » February 5th, 2015, 2:04 pm

A glider saves Kazyan's H->LWSS conversion:

x = 34, y = 30, rule = LifeHistory
26.A$26.3A$29.A$28.2A5$16.A$16.3A$19.A$18.2A5$.A$2.A$3A14.A$17.A.A$
17.3A$19.A4$26.A2.A2.2A$26.4A3.A$30.3A$28.A.A$28.2A!


Edit: another one. To get to the worthwhile lanes I have been using kickbacks, nothing else looks too promising.
x = 32, y = 40, rule = LifeHistory
24.A$24.3A$27.A$26.2A5$14.A$14.3A$17.A$16.2A7$15.A$15.A.A$15.3A$17.A
4$24.A2.A2.2A$24.4A3.A$28.3A$26.A.A$26.2A8$.A$B2A$A.A!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Kazyan » February 5th, 2015, 3:38 pm

These two don't look particularly useful, but putting them here for completeness.

x = 72, y = 27, rule = B3/S23
o49bo$3o47b3o$3bo49bo$2b2o48b2o7$bo49bo$bobo47bobo$b3o47b3o$3bo49bo3$
68b2o$69bo$15b2o38b2o4bo6bo$10b2o3bo39bo2bobobo3bo2b3o$6b2obobo4b3o38b
2obobo2bob2o2bo$6bob2obobo4bo39bo2bo4bo2bo$12b2o42bobo3b4o2bo$56b2o8b
2o$64b2o$63bobo$64bo!


EDIT: But this one is very promising, assuming it doesn't duplicate something we already know about; I don't know all the conduits. Eater 3 added to get the reaction moving in a nice direction.

x = 31, y = 27, rule = B3/S23
o$3o$3bo$2b2o7$bo$bobo$b3o$3bo$20b2o$19bo2bo2b2o$19bobo4bo2bo$20bo5bob
obo$7b2o14b2obo2bo$7bo2bo2bobobo5bo2bo$8b6ob2obobo4bo$18bob5o$10b2o6b
2o$10b2o9b2o$22bo$21bo$21b2o!


EDIT2: Interesting, but less usable.

x = 20, y = 24, rule = B3/S23
o$3o$3bo$2b2o7$bo$bobo$b3o$3bo4$17b2o$17bobo$19bo$10b2o3b4o$11bo2bo$8b
3o3bobo$8bo6b2o!


EDIT3: The "promising" catalyst in a partial conduit that just needs cleanup:

x = 45, y = 51, rule = B3/S23
6$35bo$33b3o$32bo$32b2o5$13b2o$12bobo$12bo$11b2o$5bo$5b3o$8bo$7b2o7$6b
o$6bobo$6b3o$8bo$25b2o$24bo2bo2b2o$24bobo4bo2bo$25bo5bobobo$12b2o14b2o
bo2bo$12bo2bo2bobobo5bo2bo$13b6ob2obobo4bo$23bob5o$15b2o6b2o$15b2o9b2o
$27bo$26bo$26b2o!
Last edited by Kazyan on February 5th, 2015, 8:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » February 5th, 2015, 6:10 pm

biggiemac wrote:A glider saves Kazyan's H->LWSS conversion:
...
Edit: another one. To get to the worthwhile lanes I have been using kickbacks, nothing else looks too promising.

Unfortunately neither converter is quite clean, so another glider is needed to clean up the junk. That means the cost of this LWSS is roughly two synchronized Herschels:

#C H-to-LWSS supported by H-to-2G
#C -- tandem-glider receivers added to make timing adjustments easier
x = 146, y = 146, rule = LifeHistory
129.A$129.3A$89.2A41.A$89.2A40.2A3$87.2A$87.2A$74.2A43.A$75.A43.3A$
75.A.A44.A$76.2A43.2A$72.2A$72.2A7$85.2A$85.2A$78.2A$77.A2.A15.2A$78.
2A15.A2.A$95.A.A31.A2.A2.2A$96.A32.4A3.A$133.3A$131.A.A$131.2A3$78.2A
$78.2A12$112.2A$112.A$110.A.A$110.2A7$115.2A$115.2A2$127.2A$127.A$69.
A55.A.A$69.3A53.2A$72.A$71.2A5$96.2A$62.A33.2A$62.3A23.2A$65.A21.A2.A
$64.2A22.2A11.2A$102.A$99.3A$99.A20.2A$120.2A3$122.A$74.2A45.A.A$74.
2A46.A$123.3A$125.A7$66.2A$61.2A2.A2.A$4.3A54.A4.A.A$6.A51.2A.A5.A$5.
A53.A.A.2A$58.A2.A2.A50.A$58.2A2.A4.A46.A.A$63.5A46.A2.A$115.2A$62.A.
2A$62.2A.A$2A$.2A$A92.2A$93.2A$97.2A$97.2A$111.2A$111.2A5$114.A$113.A
.A7.2A$113.A.A7.2A$101.2A11.A$102.A$99.3A$99.A$103.2A$103.2A18$134.3A
$134.A$135.A2$144.2A$143.2A$145.A!

We already have LWSSes that only cost a Herschel plus one synchronized glider, so unless there's a clean glider suppression for the circuit, this is a small step in the wrong direction.

I definitely think there's a direct H-to-LWSS out there somewhere, and I suspect it's even within reach of current catgl searches. I'm having fair success just running simsim314's GUI and getting a long column of possible reactions. I run those for a few hundred ticks and then scroll through them quickly at high zoom levels, looking for gliders coming out -- they're really easy to see in LifeHistory, and Herschel signatures are very distinctive too. If enough people run enough searches along these lines, more *WSS signatures will show up, and eventually one of them will be adjustable to make a clean conduit.

It looks to me as if it will be fairly quick to make some changes to catgl.py, to sort the output reactions into categories. Usually there are many thousands of results for a three-catalyst search, but most of them are equivalent to each other -- just different ways of catching a glider, usually, or removing a block or whatever. I'll see what I can do in the next week or so to roll out a new version of catgl, which puts all the interesting unique results in one short column and throws all the near-duplicates off to the side.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby simsim314 » February 5th, 2015, 7:35 pm

Another direction of exploration of conduits consists of having more conduits with small common objects which are not R,H,B, or Pi. If we would have more objects to convert into more objects I guess we could eventually have more pure Hesrschel conduits (and on the other hand, maybe we could avoid using pure H all the time, and will work with generic conduits).

Anyway here is my first sketch of things that I think worth to search catalysts for:

x = 6, y = 184, rule = B3/S23
b2o$o2bo$b3o29$o$b2o$o27$2o$obo$obo$b2o37$b3o$o2bo$3bo$3o37$o2bo$b4o$b
obo38$bo$obo2bo$ob2obo$4bo!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Extrementhusiast » February 5th, 2015, 9:31 pm

Well, here's a currently useless R-mango-to-glider:
x = 28, y = 30, rule = B3/S23
26b2o$26bo$9bo14bobo$8bobo13b2o$8bo2bo$9bobo$10b2o13$2b2o$bobo$bo$2o4$
6b2o$7bo$4b3o$4bo!


EDIT: Stepping it back a bit gives a LOM-to-glider:
x = 28, y = 51, rule = B3/S23
11bob2o$11b2obo2$9b5o$9bo4bo2b2o$12bo2bo2bo$12b2obobo$9bo5bob2o$8bobo
4bo$8bo2bo2b2o$9b2o7$5b3o$5bo2bo$6b3o2$26b2o$26bo$24bobo$24b2o16$2b2o$
bobo$bo$2o4$6b2o$7bo$4b3o$4bo!

Now, how can we get a suitable LOM?
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » February 5th, 2015, 10:37 pm

simsim314 wrote:... here is my first sketch of things that I think worth to search catalysts for:
[pre-honeyfarm, pre-traffic-light, pre-LOM, etc.]

I certainly won't say that you'll find nothing useful in such searches -- there might well be lots of useful Bellman-assisted HF->G or TL->G catalysts, or whatever.

However, I think there's a very good reason why lots of R, B, and Herschel conduits have been discovered over the years, and not a single HF or TL or LOM has ever appeared as a clean intermediate stage of any of these conduits. (Of course they're all over the place in combination with other nearby active reactions -- but that's not the kind of thing you can use as a conduit connection point).

R's, B's and Herschels move a long distance as they evolve, and leave minimal junk behind -- with the help of a variety of very simple small catalysts, in the case of the R.

There aren't a lot of known easy-to-create reactions that travel a long distance and then resolve cleanly into an HF, TL, LOM, or whatever. So any theoretical catalyst has to somehow "throw" an active reaction away from itself, in such a way that nothing gets left behind.

But the resulting HF/TL/LOM has to have lots of space around it to place the next conduit's catalysts, so you can't afford to use many catalysts to help the reaction along the way...

Why does Conway's Life have stable conduits, where HighLife and other well-known rules don't? Seems to me that this is pretty well explained by the unusual long-distance traveling tendencies of the R/B/Herschel group in B3/S23.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Kazyan » February 6th, 2015, 12:42 am

Here's another promising one. I'm having technical difficulties with Python, so catgl is eluding me, which is why I'm not turning these into conduits on my own.

x = 20, y = 25, rule = B3/S23
o$3o$3bo$2b2o7$bo$bobo$b3o$3bo3$18b2o$18b2o2$15bo2b2o$11b2obobo2bo$7b
2obobobob3o$7bob2obo2bo$12bo3b3o$12b2o4bo!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby simsim314 » February 6th, 2015, 7:01 am

Not exactly final conduit, but mainly because the known conduits of B->H or any other B->X are very limited .

x = 59, y = 50, rule = LifeHistory
5$33.B$31.4B$30.2D4B9.A$29.2D5B7.3A$28.2B2D7B3.A$27.4BD8B2.2A$26.14B.
3B$25.17B$25.18B$25.18B$23.2AB.16B$22.A.AB.14B$22.A4.14B$21.2A3.16B.
2A$15.A9.18B.A$15.3A7.15B3.A$18.A7.14B2.A$17.2A3.B3.13B4.3A$17.8B.15B
4.A$19.18B2.2A$19.17B3.A$18.17B5.3A$16.19B7.A$14.21B$14.2BC18B$13.3BC
BC16B$14.2B3C16B$13.5BC16B$12.10B.12B2A$11.4B9.8B2.A2BA2.2A$10.4B11.
7B2.ABAB3.A2.A$9.4B13.6B3.A4B.A.A.A$8.4B10.2A2.2B.2B6.B2A.A2.A$7.4B
11.A2.A2.A.A.A4.BAB.A$6.4B13.6A.2A.A.A4.A$6.3B24.A.5A$6.2B17.2A6.2A$
6.B18.2A9.2A$37.A$36.A$36.2A!


This is the only B->X there is:

x = 29, y = 18, rule = LifeHistory
$14.B.7B$8.B.13B$3.21BD$.D21BDB$B3D18B2D2B$.DBD15B2A2B2D2B$3.D15B2A3B
D2B$5.2B2.2B3.11B$15.10B$18.6B$20.3B$22.B$22.2A$23.A$22.A$22.2A!


I guess we've to look a bit deeper here.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby simsim314 » February 6th, 2015, 10:54 am

dvgrn wrote:There aren't a lot of known easy-to-create reactions that travel a long distance and then resolve cleanly into an HF, TL, LOM, or whatever.


Well I got LOM and TL few times already from H, it comes pretty consistent. As for converting back LOM, TL or whatever to H,B,R,C etc. is a good and open question that bellman should help to solve.

And it's not fair to say non of them are part of stable circuit, because snark should be considered stable circuit that actually has non of the "old" objects, and instead it works on honey-farm predecessor. Which is also base of semi snark as well.

So yes we have bellman now, and one of the strong sides of bellman is that it can custom SLs for specific interaction. This should allow smaller objects catalyst, with more "complex" SL, which is exactly what Mike did to find snark.

---

dvgrn wrote:Why does Conway's Life have stable conduits, where HighLife and other well-known rules don't?


My guess is that other rules are just not so well explored as Life. It's not something about the rules, but the research time invested into them. I guess we all do this on our free time, and Life has the best community, and is the most "interesting" there is currently. Probably someone could develop all by himself, creating amazing things in rules with very little interest to other people, but it's pretty hard.

I've developed few interesting concepts in Serizawa, and I guess stable circuitry can also be found there, but yet again GOL is just more interesting, and more people doing it - and the whole CA community is pretty small anyway.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » February 6th, 2015, 12:18 pm

simsim314 wrote:
dvgrn wrote:There aren't a lot of known easy-to-create reactions that travel a long distance and then resolve cleanly into an HF, TL, LOM, or whatever.


Well I got LOM and TL few times already from H, it comes pretty consistent.

Can you post an example or two? LOM and TL show up all over the place, yes -- what's rare is that the pre-LOM or pre-TL appear on the edge of the reaction envelope, with open space around them where a Bellman catalyst could be placed.

Especially for the pre-TL and pre-HF, first the reaction has to have room get to the site. Then there are only a very few ticks available for a catalyst to affect the reaction, and then the modified reaction needs space to travel away from the site again. The Snark and semi-Snark only need space for a glider to escape -- extremely narrow, much different from a standard conduit reaction which will generally travel more orthogonally.

Of the big three -- TL, HF, and LOM -- the LOM explosion is definitely the most likely option as a conduit input and output. There's lots more spacetime to place conduits around it.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » February 6th, 2015, 12:33 pm

Kazyan wrote:EDIT3: The "promising" catalyst in a partial conduit that just needs cleanup...

I tried a 3-catalyst catgl cleanup of this one, but nothing close to a clean solution appeared. Of course I could easily have done something wrong. Somewhat arbitrarily, I used

x = 35, y = 38, rule = LifeHistory
6.2B$4.5B$3.7B$3.8B$2.9B$.10B$.A8B$ABA8B$ABA10B$BA14B2.2B2.B$.23B$.
20B3AB9.C$3.16B3ABAB7.3C$3.14B2AB4A4B3.C$4.B2.10B2A3B2A5B2.AC$14.B2AB
2A2BA6B.3B$14.B2A4B2A2BABA3B$14.B3AB2A3BA2BA4B$14.6B2A2BA2BA4B$12.CAB
.B7A3B2A3B$11.C.CB.ABA8B2AB2.A$11.C4.A2BA7BA$10.2C3.2B2AB2AB4AB$4.C9.
5B3A2B2ABA$4.3C7.5B2A3B3AB$7.C7.13B$6.CAD2.B3.13B$6.8B.13B$8.18B$8.
17B$7.17B$5.19B$3.21B$3.21B$2.22B$3.21B$2.22B$.10B.12B11D!

with catgl GUI settings 1, 32, 100, 3, 1.

It often works better to start with a much later generation than the original Herschel, because it allows catgl to test catalysts' survival for longer before running up against catgl.exe's current hard-coded 250-tick limit.

One odd thing that I haven't sorted out yet is that if the isolated spark on the right is not included in the search, or is set up as a blue envelope cell instead of an active cell, then catgl finds a pretty good two-catalyst solution:

x = 39, y = 44, rule = LifeHistory
5.C$4.C.C$4.C.C$5.C2$25.3C10.C$23.3C.C8.3C$21.2C.4C7.C$21.2C3.2C7.AC$
19.2C.2C2.C7.3B$19.2C4.2C2.C.C2.B$19.3C.2C3.C2.C2.2B$24.2C2.C2.C2.2B$
16.AC3.7C3.2C.2B$15.A.A2.C.C8.2C3.B$15.A4.C2.C7.C4.2A$14.2A5.2C.2C.4C
5.2A$8.C14.3C2.2C.C4.B$8.3C12.2C3.3C$11.C$10.CAD2$32.2A$32.A$33.3A$
35.A2$9.D$9.D.D$9.3D$11.D$28.2A2.D$27.A2.A2.2C$27.A.A4.C2.C$28.A5.C.C
.C$2.CAD9.D2C14.AC.C2.C$3.C11.C2.A2.CDC.C.D3.C2.C$3C13.6C.2C.C.C4.C$C
25.C.5C$18.2C6.2C$18.2C9.2C$30.C$29.C$29.2C!

There's still a leftover block to shoot down, but it's better than anything else that showed up. But the block catalyst isn't compatible with that spark location, and catgl isn't paying attention to that.

EDIT: simsim314's variant successfully avoids the above problem by using a catalyst that catgl doesn't know about. Probably we can take care of the remaining block by shooting it down with a Snark attached to a later component... this is starting to get a bit unwieldy, but it's all good practice anyway.

This doesn't change the point I wanted to make. Basically, the lesson here is that it doesn't work just use a LifeHistory reaction envelope to define the forbidden zones for a catgl search. What catgl really does is to keep track of how many neighbors each cell has ever had, and only place catalysts where they would not previously have interacted with the reaction.

The best solution is still to recompile catgl.exe with MAXGENS set to something higher than 250, so that searches like these can be run starting from the original Herschel without running up against that awkward upper limit.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » February 6th, 2015, 3:17 pm

dvgrn wrote:Probably we can take care of the remaining block by shooting it down with a Snark attached to a later component... this is starting to get a bit unwieldy, but it's all good practice anyway.

Okay, so here's the Promising Conduit as an official Bx158. The shortest composite conduit is Bx158+Fx77 = B235, using two Snarks to route the glider back.

Repeat time is 179 ticks for the Bx158, but 359 ticks for the composite conduit because it takes so long to get a glider back to kill the block. "Overclocking" back down to near p179 would be possible for simple periodic circuits, but it would just make the whole construct even bigger:

x = 62, y = 79, rule = LifeHistory
21.2A3.2A$21.2A2.A.3A$25.A4.A$21.4A.2A2.A$21.A2.A.A.A.2A$23.BABABA.A$
24.B2ABA.A$25.2B.BA$24.3B$15.2A6.4B$16.A6.B2A3B$16.A.AB3.B2A3B$17.2AB
.10B$19.13B$19.14B$19.15B$21.8B2.4B$21.6B5.4B$20.9B4.4B$19.4B4.2A5.4B
$18.4B5.A7.4B13.A$17.4B7.3A5.4B10.3A$16.4B10.A6.4B8.A$15.4B19.4B7.2A$
14.4B21.4B3.5B$13.4B23.4B2.3B$12.4B25.9B7.2A.2A$11.4B27.8B8.A.2A$10.
4B29.10B3.B.A$9.4B19.A10.7B2A2B.B3A$8.4B.3B.B12.3A10.7B2A3BAB2.2A$.
18B10.A13.12B4A2.A$4BD11B2A2B5.B3.2A10.2AB.7B3.2B.A.2A$4B3D9B2A2B3.8B
9.A.AB.7B2.B3A2.A$4BDBD13B.8B11.A5.4B4.A5.A$6BD22B10.2A5.4B5.5A$10B2.
2B.15B15.4B8.A$7B8.17B12.4B$5B11.19B2.2B2.B.4B$4B12.15BD14B$17.7B.4BD
BD13B8.A$16.13B3D12B7.3A$15.14BD17B3.A$16.8B2.22B2.2A$16.6B11.15B.3B$
17.5B11.17B$17.4B12.18B$17.4B12.18B$15.2AB.B11.2AB.16B$14.A.AB12.A.AB
.14B$14.A15.A4.14B$13.2A14.2A3.16B.2A$23.A9.18B.A$23.3A7.15B3.A$26.A
7.14B2.A$25.2A3.B3.13B4.3A$25.8B.15B4.A$27.18B2.2A$27.17B3.A$26.17B5.
3A$24.19B7.A$17.2B2.22B$15.9BA18B$15.9BABA16B$15.9B3A16B$15.11BA16B$
15.15B.12B2A$15.3B.4B9.8B2.A2BA2.2A$19.3B11.7B2.ABAB3.A2.A$17.4B13.6B
3.A4B.A.A.A$17.2A11.2A2.2B.2B6.B2A.A2.A$18.A11.A2.A2.A.A.A4.BAB.A$15.
3A13.6A.2A.A.A4.A$15.A25.A.5A$33.2A6.2A$33.2A9.2A$45.A$44.A$44.2A!

Here's a sample gun using the new conduit -- nowhere near a record-breaker, of course:

#C p704 gun:  (Bx158+Fx77+Fx153) x 2
x = 133, y = 104, rule = B3/S23
34b2o3b2o$32b3obo2b2o$31bo4bo$31bo2b2ob4o$30b2obobobo2bo$31bobobobo$
31bobob2o$32bo2$45b2o$36b2o7bo$36b2o5bobo$43b2o7$33b2o$9bo24bo$9b3o19b
3o$12bo18bo$11b2o2$115b2o$2ob2o110bo$2obo112bo$3bo100b2o9b2o$3b3o4b2o
17bo42bo31b2o6b2o$b2o3bo3b2o17b3o38b3o13bo25bob5o$o2b4o25bo36bo16b3o
13b6ob2obobo4bo$2obo15b2o10b2o11b2o23b2o18bo11bo2bo2bobobo5bo2bo$bo2b
3o12bobo22b2o42b2o11b2o14b2obo2bo$bo5bo13bo92bo5bobobo$2b5o14b2o11b3o
76bobo4bo2bo$4bo29bob2o75bo2bo2b2o$35bob2o75b2o$35bobo$30bo4b2o$8bo21b
obo45b2o$8b3o8b2o9b2o46b2o$11bo7b2o34b2o$10b2o42bobo64bo$54bo64b3o$53b
2o10b2o51bo$66bo51b2o$63b3o9b2o47bo$29b2o14b2o16bo11bo20b2o24b3o$29bob
o13bobo28bo20bo23bo$31bo15bo27b2o17b3o25bo$9b2o20b2o14b2o45bo28bo$9bo
28bo45b2o14b2o20b2o$10bo25b3o17b2o27bo15bo$11bo23bo20bo28bobo13bobo$8b
3o24b2o20bo11bo16b2o14b2o$8bo47b2o9b3o$13b2o51bo$14bo51b2o10b2o$11b3o
64bo$11bo64bobo42b2o$76b2o43bo$53b2o67b3o$53b2o69bo3$17b2o$12b2o2bo2bo
108bo$9bo2bo4bobo90b2o14b5o$8bobobo5bo92bo13bo5bo$9bo2bob2o14b2o55b2o
22bobo12b3o2bo$12bo2bo5bobobo2bo2bo30b2o23b2o11b2o10b2o15bob2o$13bo4bo
bob2ob6o32bo36bo25b4o2bo$14b5obo39b3o38b3o17b2o3bo3b2o$19b2o6b2o31bo
42bo17b2o4b3o$16b2o9b2o100bo$16bo112bob2o$17bo110b2ob2o$16b2o2$120b2o$
101bo18bo$99b3o19b3o$98bo24bo$98b2o7$88b2o$87bobo5b2o$87bo7b2o$86b2o2$
100bo$96b2obobo$95bobobobo$92bo2bobobob2o$92b4ob2o2bo$76bo19bo4bo$77bo
14b2o2bob3o$75b3o14b2o3b2o!

In general it's probably worth aiming a little higher than this -- i.e., we should mostly spend time looking for new conduits that don't need this kind of Snark support, and heartlessly discard cases where we can't find a clean solution. A possible exception will be conduits that generate gliders, usually forward-traveling gliders, that can be bounced back by a single Snark to support the last stage of the conduit.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Kazyan » February 6th, 2015, 3:38 pm

Well, it's something. But R421, it is not.

Currently checking to see if Bellman does anything useful to the honey farm explosion of this:

x = 20, y = 6, rule = B3/S23
18b2o$18b2o$o$obo$3o$2bo!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby simsim314 » February 6th, 2015, 4:20 pm

dvgrn wrote:Can you post an example or two? LOM and TL show up all over the place, yes -- what's rare is that the pre-LOM or pre-TL appear on the edge of the reaction envelope, with open space around them where a Bellman catalyst could be placed.


Well Kazyan posted already pretty free pre-TL. As for LOM take even snark and remove the "late" eater and you will get LOM. Now if we had more knowledge about LOM catalysts options we might had already snark based G->H. I also encountered LOM in Kazyan new catalyst with eater 3. I think it was pretty "free" on one side (can't find it currently).

Obviously I'm a bit optimistic, all I'm saying this direction is worth exploration as it hasn't been explored well enough as I know.

dvgrn wrote:Okay, so here's the Promising Conduit as an official Bx158.


Congrats on finishing it. I guess we need an "extended" option for Hesrsrch that will include such pretty awkward conduits as well. I guess there are many more such "almost" conduits out there, that weren't considered conduits at all before snark.

Anyway I'm currently running bellman to see if the leftover block could be removed with some luck using some lucky catalyst (will take time as my previous run with recovery-time 5 and max-active 5 didn't came up with anything good).

Add to this, the option to get one step back, because Kazyan saw the B and was pretty happy with it, without noticing the B cant be converted into H so simply in that location. So maybe we can search for more options after the interaction with eater3.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Sokwe » February 6th, 2015, 4:32 pm

simsim314 wrote:This is the only B->X there is...

Actually, there are quite a few (see Calcyman's collection here). Only one of them seems to work in this case, giving a new F325 conduit (repeat time 287):
x = 49, y = 72, rule = LifeHistory
21.D$21.D.D$5.2A3.2A9.3D$5.2A3.2A11.D8$2.2A$2.2A13.2A$17.2A9$.2A$.2A
13$2.2A29.2D13.A$3.A28.2D12.3A$3A4.2A3.2A19.2D10.A$A6.A4.A2.A18.D10.
2A$8.A4.3A$7.2A$12.A.2A$12.2A.A$26.2A$25.A.A$25.A$24.2A20.2A$18.A28.A
$18.3A25.A$21.A23.A$20.2A24.3A$48.A$42.2A$42.A$43.3A$45.A2$19.E21.2A$
19.E.E20.A$19.3E17.3A$21.E17.A$40.2A$41.A$39.A$39.2A$12.2A11.2A$13.A
11.A2.A2.A.A.A$10.3A13.6A.2A.A$10.A25.A$28.2A6.2A$28.2A!

Notice that I replaced the eater 3 with a smaller still life.

Edit:
simsim314 wrote:Another direction of exploration of conduits consists of having more conduits with small common objects which are not R,H,B, or Pi.

I agree with this idea in general, although I think it would be a fairly tall order to convert a traffic light to a B or Herschel. The best I can do is convert 3/4 of one to a glider:
x = 19, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
5bo$5b3o$8bo4b2o$7b2o5bo$14bobo$12b2ob2o$13bo$13bo$12b2ob2obo$7b3o5bob
2o$7bobo5bo$7b3o4b2o$2b2o$bobo$bo$2o!


Two objects that could be useful are the century and the block-and-glider since we already have a few converters for them:
x = 136, y = 152, rule = LifeHistory
30.A$28.3A$13.A13.A$13.3A11.2A89.2A$16.A8.4B79.A10.A8.3B$15.2A7.3B81.
3A8.A.AB4.5B2D$15.5B3.5B83.A8.2AB.8BDBD$17.4B.7B81.2A10.12B2D$16.5B.
8B80.4B2.3B3.13B$16.14B82.21B$15.15B80.25B$14.15B81.25B$14.14B81.26B$
14.14B80.26B$13.17B78.25B$12.19B78.17B3.4B$12.19B78.16B4.4B$12.19B2.B
72.14B.B8.3B$10.25B63.2A6.15B9.4B$9.26B2D62.A5.15B11.B2A$9.26BDB2D60.
A.AB2.15B12.A$8.30BD61.2AB.15B14.3A$8.28B3D63.20B13.A$5.30B67.20B$2A
2.27B.3B68.20B$.A2.25B4.B68.22B$.A.A25B71.24B$2.2A.24B69.25B$6.22B70.
2BD13B.10B$5.22B70.3BDBD4B.7B2.2B4.2A$5.22B71.2B3D4B2.3B.B4.B4.A$5.
21B71.5BD4B4.2B2A3.2A4.3A$5.6B3D10B72.10B4.BA2.A4.A6.A$5.6BDBD9B72.4B
12.3A5.A.A$3.2A6BDBD8B73.3B22.2A$2.A.A18B88.3A$2.A4.3B.13B87.A2.A$.2A
5.B4.12B88.2A$13.6B3.4B$15.4B4.4B$24.4B$25.4B$26.4B$27.4B$28.4B$29.4B
$30.3B17$120.2A$119.B2AB$120.3B$107.2A12.B$25.B82.A6.B4.3B$24.3D81.A.
AB.5B.5B$24.BDB82.2AB.11B$23.2B3D83.14B$23.5B83.14B$23.6B82.14B$23.6B
83.13B$23.5B84.13B$22.6B84.12B$23.6B84.13B$22.7B83.15B$2A20.6B2.B80.
16B$.A11.2B7.6B.B2A79.17B$.A.AB3.B.6B5.9B2A79.17B$2.2AB.10B3.B.7B.2B
81.17B$4.24B86.B3D12B$4.22B89.2BD12B$4.23B88.3D11B$5.22B86.14B$5.21B
86.11B$7.12B3D5B85.11B$8.11BDBD5B86.9B$8.11BD2BD3B87.9B$9.12B2D3B88.
7B2D$12.15B89.6BD$13.13B88.6B2D$11.2AB.4B.5B89.2A.2B.D$10.A.AB3.B97.A
$10.A101.3A$9.2A101.A26$22.D$21.3D$20.2D2BD2.B$20.5B.B2A83.B$19.8B2A
82.3D$3.2A13.7B.2B83.BDB$4.A5.2B3.10B85.2B3D$4.A.AB.14B87.5B$5.2AB.
14B87.6B$7.16B87.6B$7.16B87.5B$8.8B3D5B85.6B$9.7BDBD5B86.6B$8.8BD2BD
3B86.7B$7.11B2D4B85.6B$7.17B85.6B$8.15B87.B2A3B$8.14B87.2B2A5B$8.8B.
3B89.9B$9.7B94.9B.B$7.4B.B96.11B2A$7.2A101.2B2D6B2A$8.A101.2BDBD6B$5.
3A103.3B2D5B$5.A106.7B$114.B.5B$118.B2A$119.A$120.3A$122.A!
-Matthias Merzenich
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