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Soup search results

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Re: Soup search results

Postby NickGotts » December 17th, 2018, 7:15 am

dvgrn says:
The exponential curve is painfully bumpy, not nice and smooth.


If the number of methusalehs in successive bins approximates to a power law, then the curve is not exponential: power law distributions approach zero much more slowly. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_law. I think there has been previous work on power laws in relation to Game of Life, concerning IIRC the size of disturbances that arise from switching the state of a single cell in a stable configuration. I'll see if I can find a reference.

(OT: My acquaintance with power laws derives from a bit of work I did around 2003-4 on the distribution of rural land holding sizes in Scotland. I found they approximated to a power law, meaning that a few greedy b******s own most of Scotland - see Andy Wightman's Who Owns Scotland (which preceded and informed my work) for a far more thorough but less mathematical treatment. My conference paper on the matter should be online somewhere, but the link I have doesn't work any more.)
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Re: Soup search results

Postby simeks » December 17th, 2018, 5:03 pm

dvgrn wrote:Here's a minor power-law investigation relating to regular methuselahs:
...
#C 62 soups, tub plus 2b3o$4bo$o3bo$o2bo$3o!
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
6bo2bo4bo$b2obo2bob2o$2b2o4b2o2b2obo$2bo2b3ob6o$b2obo2bo2bobo2bo$b2obo
bobobo2bobo$3obob2o4b2obo$b2obob2ob3o2b2o$obobobo2bo2b2o$o2bo3b2o5bo$
3o6b2obobo$b2obobob2ob4o$ob3ob5ob2obo$2b2o2b3ob3o$2bo4b2o2b2obo$2o2bob
2obo2bob2o!

Just thought it is worth mentioning that this is in fact Lidka
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Re: Soup search results

Postby dvgrn » December 17th, 2018, 5:53 pm

simeks wrote:
dvgrn wrote:Here's a minor power-law investigation relating to regular methuselahs:
...
#C 62 soups, tub plus 2b3o$4bo$o3bo$o2bo$3o!...

Just thought it is worth mentioning that this is in fact Lidka

Huh, interesting. Lidka predecessors are a really common bottleneck, the most frequent overlap in the 29K bin by about a factor of two.

It's possible to sort the output of my script to find which 16x16 pattern has an ancestor that takes the longest to evolve into Lidka. It turns out to be this one:

#C 247-tick predecessor of original Lidka, total survival time 29,300 ticks
#C https://catagolue.appspot.com/hashsoup/C1/l_xsQF3KKe8cgm3386587/b3s23
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
ob3o2b3ob2obo$obo2bo4bo3b2o$bo2bo2bob2o2b2o$2b2o3bo3b4o$5bo2bo4b2o$o2b
o2bo2bo5bo$ob2ob6o2bo$b3o3bobo2bob2o$b3o2bob2o3b2o$4b4o2b2ob3o$5o3bob
2ob2o$b2ob3obo2b5o$bo2b2ob2o4b3o$6obo$o2b2o3b3obo2bo$o2b3ob4obo2bo!

But of course Catagolue has probably thrown out sixty-odd more Lidka predecessors just after the bin filled up, and many thousands more since Year Zero of apgsearch. So there are probably older ancestors within reach of a dedicated search, though Catagolue won't notice them unless the storage rules are changed.

-- Not that there's any particular market for Lidka predecessors... but I wonder if copies of 32829M are piling up in the 32K and 33K bins?

We know for sure that 40514M (the next possible low-population bottleneck pattern in the long-lived methuselahs list) isn't waiting to be rediscovered in the 40K bin, since apgsearch is still stubbornly refusing to find any methuselahs at all in the 40nnn range.

NickGotts wrote:dvgrn says:
The exponential curve is painfully bumpy, not nice and smooth.

If the number of methusalehs in successive bins approximates to a power law, then the curve is not exponential: power law distributions approach zero much more slowly. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_law.

I've read the Wikipedia treatment of power-law approximations, and am now more confused than when I started. Everyone should take both terms I used, "exponential" and "power law", with several grains of salt.

In other words, I'm definitely not at all clear on what the best statistical method would be for fitting a predictive equation to the long-tail curve of counts in the 1000-tick methuselah bins. It just seemed interesting that the apparent excessive noise in the counts for some of the lower bins, could be at least partly explained by early low-population bottlenecks like Lidka.

I suppose something similar might be true for statistical bumps in the N-bit still life counts: if you remove duplicates that are due to the exact same low-bit-count predecessor, maybe the remaining counts would be easier to fit to... um... some smooth curve or other.

-----------------------------------

Meanwhile, here's a version of the methuselah fingerprinter script that handles pulsars as well as beacons correctly, and makes just one call to Catagolue instead of up to five hundred, using lifelib calls to re-create the soups from a list of soup sample hashes. That link is really most of what is needed -- at least for C1 soups, it's pretty easy to produce them directly from the hash string -- but for now I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to improve the script to take input from the user about which bin to process, and maybe remove the dependency on lifelib if that causes trouble for too many people.

(In theory, acquiring lifelib is as simple as pip install python-lifelib, but on Windows it's also necessary to install Cygwin. And people may run into other speed bumps that I haven't thought of yet.)

Anyway:

# methuselah-fingerprinter-stride-6.py

import golly as g
import urllib2
import lifelib

############################################                                                            #
lifelib.add_cygdir(r'C:\cygwin\cygwin64')  #  Replace this directory as appropriate for your own system #
                                           ##############################################################
sess = lifelib.load_rules('b3s23')
lt = sess.lifetree()
samples = lt.download_samples('b3s23','methuselah_30k')
# quick test that lifelib is functioning correctly #########
# g.note("Number of C1 samples: " + str(len(samples['C1'])))
# g.note("This is what the 41st sample looks like: \n" + str(samples['C1'][40]))
binlimit = 31000

def runget(lastmin):
  g.run(1)
  p = int(g.getpop())
  if lastmin>p: lastmin = p
  return p, lastmin
 
lookup="0123456789ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ_!abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz"

all, count = "", 0
fname = g.getdir("temp")+"soup.rle"
for item in samples['C1']:
  item.save(fname)
  g.open(fname)
  count+=1
  g.fit()
  g.update()
  curmod0pop = int(g.getpop())
  min = curmod0pop
  curmod1pop, min = runget(min)
  curmod2pop, min = runget(min)
  curmod3pop, min = runget(min)
  curmod4pop, min = runget(min)
  curmod5pop, min = runget(min)
  arr = []
  for i in range(binlimit/6+1):
    newmod0pop, min = runget(min)
    newmod1pop, min = runget(min)
    newmod2pop, min = runget(min)
    newmod3pop, min = runget(min)
    newmod4pop, min = runget(min)
    newmod5pop, min = runget(min)
    arr+=[newmod0pop-curmod0pop,newmod1pop-curmod1pop,newmod2pop-curmod2pop,newmod3pop-curmod3pop,newmod4pop-curmod4pop,newmod5pop-curmod5pop]
    curmod0pop, curmod1pop, curmod2pop, curmod3pop, curmod4pop, curmod5pop = newmod0pop, newmod1pop, newmod2pop, newmod3pop, newmod4pop, newmod5pop
    if i%100==0:
      g.show("Soup #" + str(count) + ", T = " + str(i*6))
  ptr = binlimit-1
  s=""
  while ptr>0:
    if arr[ptr]!=0: break
    ptr-=1
  while ptr>0:
    s+=lookup[arr[ptr]%64]
    ptr -= 1
  all+="Soup #" + str(count).ljust(4) + "Min: "+ str(min).ljust(4) + s + "\n"
g.note("Done!  Click OK to copy results to the clipboard.")
g.setclipstr(all)


This was tested against the 30k bin (hardcoded a couple of places in the script), and as expected from the relatively low population of the bin, there are only 17 overlapping methuselahs, all due to fairly low-population bottlenecks:

# predecessor of "pi plus 3 blocks and 2 boats"
C1/l_xc6ESG65SQiM18454601   Soup #114 Min: 32
C1/l_h87jdfEbnuJe123404158  Soup #212 Min: 26
C1/l_WLRPFsB7d4nv6265948    Soup #487 Min: 30
C1/l_4ApGCvbeHruv19387759   Soup #139 Min: 31
C1/l_PHVF44YYqHsT17098941   Soup #259 Min: 24
C1/l_qrQnE9nQsxUx4197988    Soup #20  Min: 23
C1/l_g9gyBfvQJSE910169933   Soup #484 Min: 21
C1/l_jqueKG6XH5sC15085823   Soup #427 Min: 26
C1/l_hbG7Js27XHHC14647911   Soup #221 Min: 18
C1/l_jfBNw3pbmXtm6437394    Soup #119 Min: 23
C1/l_h4JjAZb4X65u20697923   Soup #358 Min: 17
C1/l_vZF8TbCUEHJM276840       Soup #59  Min: 20
C1/l_rps9vD2BbfwE36506758   Soup #363 Min: 31
C1/l_xmmaxw7tvugw20250641   Soup #497 Min: 34

# R-pentomino plus blinker plus block plus junk
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
o2b2ob2obobo2bo$2o6b2o2bo2bo$ob2ob5o4bo$6obo2bo3b2o$4ob2o2bob2obo$2o2b
5ob2ob2o$ob2ob3o2bo2bo$5bob3obobo$obo2bob2o5b2o$o6bobo2bo2bo$4bob2obob
5o$bo3b3o2b4o$o4b2o2b2o2bo$bob2obo6bo$o5bo2bob2o$3b2o9b2o!
C1/l_EPAky7dWczBR207300       Soup #47  Min: 21
C1/l_cTD4fz4Kw8Qv77625108   Soup #324 Min: 19
C1/l_QB7gRjJUMbV45083840    Soup #419 Min: 21

By contrast, the next lower bin, 29K, has somewhat over twice the methuselah count (where it "should" be only something like 1.7 times, going by the average probability ratio between bins). But it has 120 duplicates instead of less than 20, due to Lidka and other bottleneck attractors.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby A for awesome » December 17th, 2018, 9:58 pm

Third distinct 2xQB oscillator in C1:
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
oboobbbooobobooo$
oobbobbobbbboobo$
bbbbbobobobooooo$
oooobbbbbbobbbob$
bbbobbobooboobbo$
obobobbooooooobo$
bobooobbbboboooo$
bbboboooooooboob$
obobbooooooooooo$
bbobobbbbobobbbb$
obobbbbobboobooo$
ooooobbbbbbbboob$
obobbbbbobbobobb$
obbbbbooooobbbob$
bbbbbbooobbbbbbo$
obbboobobbbobobb!
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all

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Re: Soup search results

Postby Apple Bottom » December 22nd, 2018, 2:07 pm

A 1209-generation diehard in C4_1, found by Ian07 on December 15:

#C messless_12h
#C C4_1 sample soup ? of ?
#C https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/messless_12h/b3s23/C4_1
#C https://catagolue.appspot.com/hashsoup/C4_1/l_thmxq7bYWxMj9191681/b3s23
#C https://catagolue.appspot.com/haul/b3s23/C4_1/634f4a375272ee8f77561f29d3b3ac4d
x = 31, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
bobobbooobbooboobbobbooboboobbb$
bboboobooobboboobbbbobbobobbobo$
bobobbbbobobbbobbbooooboooobbob$
obbooobbbbooboboboboooboobooobo$
oboobboboboobbobbobbbooobobobob$
boobobbbboobbbbobbobooboobbobob$
oboobobobbbbboooobbobobbbbobbbo$
booooobboooobobbobobbbbbobbbboo$
obbbobbbbobobboooobbbobobbobooo$
obooooobobbobbbobooboboobobbbob$
booobobbboobooooobooobboboooobb$
bboobbobbboobobobboobooobboobbo$
obobbobobooobooobbbbobbbbbbbboo$
bbboobbboobbboooboooobboobbobbb$
bbbbbbooobobbbooooobobobobobooo$
ooboboobooooooooooooooobooboboo$
ooobobobobobooooobbbobooobbbbbb$
bbbobboobboooobooobbboobbboobbb$
oobbbbbbbbobbbbooobooobobobbobo$
obboobboooboobboboboobbbobboobb$
bboooobobboooboooooboobbbobooob$
bobbbobooboboobobbbobbobooooobo$
ooobobbobobbboooobbobobbbbobbbo$
oobbbbobbbbbobobboboooobbooooob$
obbbobbbbobobboooobbbbboboboobo$
bobobbooboobobbobbbboobbbboboob$
bobobobooobbbobbobboobobobboobo$
obooobooboooboboboboobbbbooobbo$
bobbooooboooobbbobbbobobbbbobob$
obobbobobbobbbboobobboooboobobb$
bbbooboboobbobbooboobbooobbobob!
If you speak, your speech must be better than your silence would have been. — Arabian proverb

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Re: Soup search results

Postby testitemqlstudop » December 30th, 2018, 5:28 pm

27742-gen methuselah that also emits a LWSS:

(I took the seed, SHA256-ed it, converted to binary, then converted it to a 16x16 square - is there a better way?)

o.o.oo....o..o..
...o.o.o.o....o.
o..ooooo.ooo.o..
o.o.oo.o.o...oo.
oo.o.o...ooooo.o
.o....o..o......
...ooo..o.oooo..
....o..o.o..oo.o
oooo.ooooo.ooooo
..o..o.o...ooo..
o...o.o.o..o..oo
o..o.oo.oo.o.o.o
oo.ooo..ooo.oo..
..o..oo..ooooo..
oo..oooo.o......
oooooooo.o.o...o
zdr wrote:Nice archive.
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They will not win.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby Ian07 » December 30th, 2018, 5:43 pm

testitemqlstudop wrote:(I took the seed, SHA256-ed it, converted to binary, then converted it to a 16x16 square - is there a better way?)


Catagolue can actually do this for you:
https://catagolue.appspot.com/hashsoup/<symmetry>/<seed>/<rule>
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Re: Soup search results

Postby testitemqlstudop » January 1st, 2019, 1:08 pm

Was searching b3s23/D8_4, very rewarding:

x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
oobobbbobobboooooooobbobobbboboo$
oobobbobbbboobooooboobbbbobboboo$
bbboobobooobobbbbbboboooboboobbb$
oooboboobooooboooobooooboobobooo$
bboooooobbboboboobobobbboooooobb$
bbbboboooobobbobbobboboooobobbbb$
boooooooboobboooooobboobooooooob$
obboooooooooooobboooooooooooobbo$
bbobboboooooooboobooooooobobbobb$
obooboooobbbbboooobbbbbooooboobo$
bboobbooobbbobobbobobbbooobboobb$
boboooboobboboboobobobboobooobob$
oooobbboobobbbbbbbbbboboobbboooo$
obbbobooobbobbboobbbobbooobobbbo$
ooboboooboobbbbbbbbbbooboooboboo$
oobooboboobobobbbboboboobobooboo$
oobooboboobobobbbboboboobobooboo$
ooboboooboobbbbbbbbbbooboooboboo$
obbbobooobbobbboobbbobbooobobbbo$
oooobbboobobbbbbbbbbboboobbboooo$
boboooboobboboboobobobboobooobob$
bboobbooobbbobobbobobbbooobboobb$
obooboooobbbbboooobbbbbooooboobo$
bbobboboooooooboobooooooobobbobb$
obboooooooooooobboooooooooooobbo$
boooooooboobboooooobboobooooooob$
bbbboboooobobbobbobboboooobobbbb$
bboooooobbboboboobobobbboooooobb$
oooboboobooooboooobooooboobobooo$
bbboobobooobobbbbbboboooboboobbb$
oobobbobbbboobooooboobbbbobboboo$
oobobbbobobboooooooobbobobbboboo!


x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
obbbboboboooboboobobooobobobbbbo$
bbbboooboboobobooboboobobooobbbb$
bbooobbbboobboobboobboobbbbooobb$
bboboobbbbbbbboooobbbbbbbboobobb$
booobbobbobobbbbbbbbobobbobbooob$
oobobboooboooobbbboooobooobboboo$
bobboobobobobobbbboboboboboobbob$
obbbboobboobooobboooboobboobbbbo$
bobbbobbboobooobboooboobbbobbbob$
oboboboooobooobooboooboooobobobo$
ooobboboobbboobooboobbboobobbooo$
oobbooobbobbbbobbobbbbobbooobboo$
bbbbboboooobobbbbbboboooobobbbbb$
ooobboooooobbbbbbbbbboooooobbooo$
bboobbboobbobboooobbobboobbboobb$
oobobbbbboobbbobbobbboobbbbboboo$
oobobbbbboobbbobbobbboobbbbboboo$
bboobbboobbobboooobbobboobbboobb$
ooobboooooobbbbbbbbbboooooobbooo$
bbbbboboooobobbbbbboboooobobbbbb$
oobbooobbobbbbobbobbbbobbooobboo$
ooobboboobbboobooboobbboobobbooo$
oboboboooobooobooboooboooobobobo$
bobbbobbboobooobboooboobbbobbbob$
obbbboobboobooobboooboobboobbbbo$
bobboobobobobobbbboboboboboobbob$
oobobboooboooobbbboooobooobboboo$
booobbobbobobbbbbbbbobobbobbooob$
bboboobbbbbbbboooobbbbbbbboobobb$
bbooobbbboobboobboobboobbbbooobb$
bbbboooboboobobooboboobobooobbbb$
obbbboboboooboboobobooobobobbbbo!


x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
boboobooobbbbobbbbobbbboooboobob$
obobbbbbboboboboobobobobbbbbbobo$
boboboobbbbbboboobobbbbbboobobob$
oboobbbobbboboboobobobbbobbboobo$
obbbbboboobboboooobobboobobbbbbo$
bbobbbbobbboboobboobobbbobbbbobb$
obobobobbbooobbbbbbooobbbobobobo$
obbobobobbboboooooobobbbobobobbo$
obbbobbbooobobbbbbbobooobbbobbbo$
bobbobbboobbboboobobbboobbbobbob$
bbbbbboboboboooooooobobobobbbbbb$
bobobooobbbbobbbbbbobbbbooobobob$
bbbboboboboooobooboooobobobobbbb$
oooobobobooboobooboobooboboboooo$
bbbboobobbobbboooobbbobboboobbbb$
boooobboboobooooooooboobobboooob$
boooobboboobooooooooboobobboooob$
bbbboobobbobbboooobbbobboboobbbb$
oooobobobooboobooboobooboboboooo$
bbbboboboboooobooboooobobobobbbb$
bobobooobbbbobbbbbbobbbbooobobob$
bbbbbboboboboooooooobobobobbbbbb$
bobbobbboobbboboobobbboobbbobbob$
obbbobbbooobobbbbbbobooobbbobbbo$
obbobobobbboboooooobobbbobobobbo$
obobobobbbooobbbbbbooobbbobobobo$
bbobbbbobbboboobboobobbbobbbbobb$
obbbbboboobboboooobobboobobbbbbo$
oboobbbobbboboboobobobbbobbboobo$
boboboobbbbbboboobobbbbbboobobob$
obobbbbbboboboboobobobobbbbbbobo$
boboobooobbbbobbbbobbbboooboobob!


x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
ooobbobbbbboobobboboobbbbbobbooo$
oobbboboooboboooooobobooobobbboo$
obbobbbobbobbbbbbbbbbobbobbbobbo$
bbobbobbobooboobbooboobobbobbobb$
bbbboooboobooobooboooboobooobbbb$
ooboobbboobboboooobobboobbbooboo$
bbbbobbbobbbbbobbobbbbbobbbobbbb$
boobbbboooboooboobooobooobbbboob$
boboooooboooboboobobooobooooobob$
bobboobooobbobboobbobboooboobbob$
bboobbbbobobbbboobbbbobobbbboobb$
ooboobboobbobbboobbbobboobbooboo$
obbboobobobboobbbboobboboboobbbo$
boboobboobbboboooobobbboobboobob$
ooboboobbbbbbobbbbobbbbbbooboboo$
bobboobooooobobooboboooooboobbob$
bobboobooooobobooboboooooboobbob$
ooboboobbbbbbobbbbobbbbbbooboboo$
boboobboobbboboooobobbboobboobob$
obbboobobobboobbbboobboboboobbbo$
ooboobboobbobbboobbbobboobbooboo$
bboobbbbobobbbboobbbbobobbbboobb$
bobboobooobbobboobbobboooboobbob$
boboooooboooboboobobooobooooobob$
boobbbboooboooboobooobooobbbboob$
bbbbobbbobbbbbobbobbbbbobbbobbbb$
ooboobbboobboboooobobboobbbooboo$
bbbboooboobooobooboooboobooobbbb$
bbobbobbobooboobbooboobobbobbobb$
obbobbbobbobbbbbbbbbbobbobbbobbo$
oobbboboooboboooooobobooobobbboo$
ooobbobbbbboobobboboobbbbbobbooo!


x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
bboooooobbbbboobboobbbbboooooobb$
bobbbobbobboobboobboobbobbobbbob$
obobbobbboobooooooooboobbbobbobo$
obboooobbobbbobbbbobbbobboooobbo$
obbooboboobbobbbbbbobbooboboobbo$
oooobbboooboooobboooobooobbboooo$
obboobboooobooooooooboooobboobbo$
obbbboooboooooobboooooobooobbbbo$
bobboooboobobobooboboboobooobbob$
bboooooooboobbboobbboobooooooobb$
bbobbboobooooboooobooooboobbbobb$
bobbboboooobbbbbbbbbboooobobbbob$
booboooobbobboboobobbobbooooboob$
obooboooobbbobbbbbbobbbooooboobo$
obobbooobbobbboooobbbobbooobbobo$
boobbbobooobobobbobobooobobbboob$
boobbbobooobobobbobobooobobbboob$
obobbooobbobbboooobbbobbooobbobo$
obooboooobbbobbbbbbobbbooooboobo$
booboooobbobboboobobbobbooooboob$
bobbboboooobbbbbbbbbboooobobbbob$
bbobbboobooooboooobooooboobbbobb$
bboooooooboobbboobbboobooooooobb$
bobboooboobobobooboboboobooobbob$
obbbboooboooooobboooooobooobbbbo$
obboobboooobooooooooboooobboobbo$
oooobbboooboooobboooobooobbboooo$
obbooboboobbobbbbbbobbooboboobbo$
obboooobbobbbobbbbobbbobboooobbo$
obobbobbboobooooooooboobbbobbobo$
bobbbobbobboobboobboobbobbobbbob$
bboooooobbbbboobboobbbbboooooobb!


x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
obbooobbooobooobbooobooobbooobbo$
booboooobboboobbbboobobbooooboob$
boobbobooobbobboobbobbooobobboob$
obboobbbobobobobbobobobobbboobbo$
oobobbbbbooobbobbobbooobbbbboboo$
ooobboobboboboooooobobobboobbooo$
bobbbobboboobbobbobboobobbobbbob$
boobbbbboooooobooboooooobbbbboob$
oboobbooboboboobbooboboboobboobo$
oboboobooobbooobbooobboooboobobo$
oobooboobbooboobbooboobboobooboo$
bbbbooooobobbbboobbbbobooooobbbb$
oooobbbobobbobboobbobbobobbboooo$
oobbboboooobboobboobboooobobbboo$
obboooobooobbobbbbobboooboooobbo$
bbobbobobbboobbbbbboobbbobobbobb$
bbobbobobbboobbbbbboobbbobobbobb$
obboooobooobbobbbbobboooboooobbo$
oobbboboooobboobboobboooobobbboo$
oooobbbobobbobboobbobbobobbboooo$
bbbbooooobobbbboobbbbobooooobbbb$
oobooboobbooboobbooboobboobooboo$
oboboobooobbooobbooobboooboobobo$
oboobbooboboboobbooboboboobboobo$
boobbbbboooooobooboooooobbbbboob$
bobbbobboboobbobbobboobobbobbbob$
ooobboobboboboooooobobobboobbooo$
oobobbbbbooobbobbobbooobbbbboboo$
obboobbbobobobobbobobobobbboobbo$
boobbobooobbobboobbobbooobobboob$
booboooobboboobbbboobobbooooboob$
obbooobbooobooobbooobooobbooobbo!


x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
obobooobbbbooobbbbooobbbbooobobo$
bbbooooobbboobbbbbboobbbooooobbb$
obbbbbobboobbbbbbbbbboobbobbbbbo$
boboboooobobbbboobbbboboooobobob$
oobboooobobbbbobbobbbboboooobboo$
oobooobobbooboobbooboobboboooboo$
ooooobbooboobbboobbbooboobbooooo$
bobooooboobbbbbbbbbbbbooboooobob$
bbbobboobbbobbobbobbobbboobbobbb$
bbobobboboboboooooobobobobbobobb$
bbooboobbbobbobbbbobbobbbooboobb$
oobbbooboobobbobbobbobooboobbboo$
oobbbbbbbbbbbobbbbobbbbbbbbbbboo$
obbbbobbboobooobboooboobbbobbbbo$
bbbboobbooboboobbooboboobboobbbb$
bbbobbobbobbbbboobbbbbobbobbobbb$
bbbobbobbobbbbboobbbbbobbobbobbb$
bbbboobbooboboobbooboboobboobbbb$
obbbbobbboobooobboooboobbbobbbbo$
oobbbbbbbbbbbobbbbobbbbbbbbbbboo$
oobbbooboobobbobbobbobooboobbboo$
bbooboobbbobbobbbbobbobbbooboobb$
bbobobboboboboooooobobobobbobobb$
bbbobboobbbobbobbobbobbboobbobbb$
bobooooboobbbbbbbbbbbbooboooobob$
ooooobbooboobbboobbbooboobbooooo$
oobooobobbooboobbooboobboboooboo$
oobboooobobbbbobbobbbboboooobboo$
boboboooobobbbboobbbboboooobobob$
obbbbbobboobbbbbbbbbboobbobbbbbo$
bbbooooobbboobbbbbboobbbooooobbb$
obobooobbbbooobbbbooobbbbooobobo!


x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
bbbobbbobbbbbbboobbbbbbbobbbobbb$
bobboobbbbooobobbobooobbbboobbob$
bbobbobbbooobobbbbobooobbbobbobb$
obbobbobbooobobbbbobooobbobbobbo$
bobbboboobbbboobboobbbboobobbbob$
booboboobobbbobbbbobbbobooboboob$
bbbobobobboooobooboooobbobobobbb$
obbbooobobobobobbobobobobooobbbo$
bbbbobbobboboobbbboobobbobbobbbb$
bboobobbbooboobbbbooboobbboboobb$
booobboooobobobbbboboboooobbooob$
booobbobbbobboboobobbobbbobbooob$
bobbbboooobboooooooobboooobbbbob$
bbooooobooooobboobbooooobooooobb$
bobbobbobbbbobobbobobbbbobbobbob$
obbbbbobbbbooobbbbooobbbbobbbbbo$
obbbbbobbbbooobbbbooobbbbobbbbbo$
bobbobbobbbbobobbobobbbbobbobbob$
bbooooobooooobboobbooooobooooobb$
bobbbboooobboooooooobboooobbbbob$
booobbobbbobboboobobbobbbobbooob$
booobboooobobobbbboboboooobbooob$
bboobobbbooboobbbbooboobbboboobb$
bbbbobbobboboobbbboobobbobbobbbb$
obbbooobobobobobbobobobobooobbbo$
bbbobobobboooobooboooobbobobobbb$
booboboobobbbobbbbobbbobooboboob$
bobbboboobbbboobboobbbboobobbbob$
obbobbobbooobobbbbobooobbobbobbo$
bbobbobbbooobobbbbobooobbbobbobb$
bobboobbbbooobobbobooobbbboobbob$
bbbobbbobbbbbbboobbbbbbbobbbobbb!


x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
bobbbbboobbbbboooobbbbboobbbbbob$
obboooobbobbbobbbbobbbobboooobbo$
bbboooooooboobobboboobooooooobbb$
boobooobbbbbboobboobbbbbboooboob$
boooooooooboooooooooobooooooooob$
booooooooboobbbbbbbbooboooooooob$
boooooobooooobboobboooooboooooob$
obobooboboboobboobbooboboboobobo$
obobooobobboobobboboobbobooobobo$
booboboobobboooooooobbobooboboob$
bbbbboobbbboobbbbbboobbbboobbbbb$
bbobooooobobbbboobbbbobooooobobb$
bbobobooooobobboobbobooooobobobb$
boboobbbbobbbbbbbbbbbbobbbboobob$
obooobbboobbbbobbobbbboobbbooobo$
obbbobooboboobbbbbbooboboobobbbo$
obbbobooboboobbbbbbooboboobobbbo$
obooobbboobbbbobbobbbboobbbooobo$
boboobbbbobbbbbbbbbbbbobbbboobob$
bbobobooooobobboobbobooooobobobb$
bbobooooobobbbboobbbbobooooobobb$
bbbbboobbbboobbbbbboobbbboobbbbb$
booboboobobboooooooobbobooboboob$
obobooobobboobobboboobbobooobobo$
obobooboboboobboobbooboboboobobo$
boooooobooooobboobboooooboooooob$
booooooooboobbbbbbbbooboooooooob$
boooooooooboooooooooobooooooooob$
boobooobbbbbboobboobbbbbboooboob$
bbboooooooboobobboboobooooooobbb$
obboooobbobbbobbbbobbbobboooobbo$
bobbbbboobbbbboooobbbbboobbbbbob!
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Re: Soup search results

Postby dvgrn » January 3rd, 2019, 10:34 am

The 1000-tick barrier has finally been broken for 16x16 diehards:

#N messless1041
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
o2b2ob2o2bobobo$2b7o2bo$o3b4o4b4o$obob5obobobo$b3o3b2o5b2o$2b4ob2ob3ob
2o$b2o2b3ob3ob2o$b2o2bob3obob2o$b5obob2ob2o$b2obo4b2ob2o$bo2b2o5b3obo$
obob2ob2ob3obo$2ob5obob2o$2obobo2b6o$b5ob2obobo$o11b2obo!

Obviously the initial population can be reduced somewhat. Around T=230-260, or farther back around T=140, looks like a decent target for a glider synthesis, but I'm not sure exactly what the point would be of building nothing so inefficiently.

EDIT: Fixed quoted pattern. @Macbi and @Saka, thanks for pointing out the problem.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby Macbi » January 3rd, 2019, 10:43 am

I think you put the wrong pattern in the codeblock. That one only lasts for 936 generations.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby Dannyu NDos » January 6th, 2019, 3:29 am

Has anyone noticed a variant of 28P7.2 emerged?:
http://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp7_0cai3y18oz65111whjldzy31/b3s23
The former account 'David' is lost and unused.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby gmc_nxtman » January 13th, 2019, 1:56 am

Two almost-complete syntheses:

x = 134, y = 82, rule = LifeHistory
98.A$98.A.A$98.2A$32.A29.3A29.3A$31.A.A74.A$31.A.A74.A.A$32.A75.2A$
64.A.A.2A26.A.A.2A26.A.A.2A$27.2A7.2A25.A.3A.A5.A19.A.3A.A5.A19.A.3A.
A$26.A2.A5.A2.A24.A11.A19.A11.A19.A$27.2A7.2A26.A.2A.A5.A20.A.2A.A5.A
20.A.2A.A$65.2A.2A27.2A.2A27.2A.2A$32.A$31.A.A$31.A.A10.A$32.A10.A$
43.3A6.3A$52.A$53.A$44.3A$34.D9.A$35.D9.A$32.2D.D$32.3D$32.2D5$33.3D.
3D$30.D4.D.D$29.3D.3D.3D$30.D4.D3.D$33.3D.3D6$3A$2.A$.A10$56.2A23.2A
30.2A$55.A2.A21.A2.A28.A2.A$55.A.2A21.A.2A28.A.2A$54.2A23.2A30.2A$53.
A2.3A19.A2.3A26.A2.3A$23.D29.A.A2.A19.A.A2.A26.A.A2.A$22.D.D3.D25.2A
23.2A30.2A$22.D.2D.3D$23.D.2D2.2D$26.3D10$57.2A23.2A$57.2A23.2A$19.2A
2.2A54.2A$18.A.A2.A.A52.A.A$20.A2.A56.A3$12.2A15.D3.D2.D.D$13.2A10.D
2.2D2.2D2.D.D$12.A11.3D2.D3.D2.3D$25.D3.D3.D4.D$28.3D.3D3.D!


In the second synthesis, the missing object is just a beehive + B-heptomino. I don't know if either of these would end up being improvements, but it seems likely for the top one, and reasonable for the bottom.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby cordership3 » January 14th, 2019, 11:44 am

The first yl1536, found by an anonymous user:
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
oooobobbbboooobo$
oboobbobooobbooo$
obobbbobooooobob$
oboobobbbooooobo$
ooobobobobobbobo$
bobooooobobboboo$
booboooooooobbob$
oobboboobbobobob$
bbobobbbbooooooo$
oobbobbobboboboo$
bobobbbbbbboobob$
oboobobbobobboob$
obbbobbobbooooob$
bbbbbbbooooobobb$
booobobbbobooobb$
oooobbbbbbbbbboo!
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Re: Soup search results

Postby Billabob » January 20th, 2019, 1:22 pm

A 1058-gen diehard popped up in C1, beating the previous record of 1041:

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
bbobbbbboboooooo$
bobbboooboobbboo$
ooobobooooobbobo$
bbboboobobboobob$
ooooooobbooooobo$
bobobboboooboobo$
oobooooooooobobo$
ooboobobobbobbbo$
bboboooooobbbobb$
bboooobbobbbobbb$
bobboooobbbbbbbb$
boobobooboboobbb$
oooooobbboboboob$
obboobobooobbooo$
oooooobooboboboo$
ooobbbobbobbooob!


Found by one of Dave Greene's instances. Its evolution only crosses over with the 1041-gen diehard when it becomes a domino spark on generation 1057. Haul
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Re: Soup search results

Postby testitemqlstudop » January 21st, 2019, 9:58 am

Billabob wrote:A 1058-gen diehard popped up in C1, beating the previous record of 1041:

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
bbobbbbboboooooo$
bobbboooboobbboo$
ooobobooooobbobo$
bbboboobobboobob$
ooooooobbooooobo$
bobobboboooboobo$
oobooooooooobobo$
ooboobobobbobbbo$
bboboooooobbbobb$
bboooobbobbbobbb$
bobboooobbbbbbbb$
boobobooboboobbb$
oooooobbboboboob$
obboobobooobbooo$
oooooobooboboboo$
ooobbbobbobbooob!


Found by one of Dave Greene's instances. Its evolution only crosses over with the 1041-gen diehard when it becomes a domino spark on generation 1057. Haul


Congratulations! 2nd quadruple-digit diehard!
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Re: Soup search results

Postby Gamedziner » January 21st, 2019, 1:13 pm

Billabob wrote:A 1058-gen diehard popped up in C1, beating the previous record of 1041:

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
bbobbbbboboooooo$
bobbboooboobbboo$
ooobobooooobbobo$
bbboboobobboobob$
ooooooobbooooobo$
bobobboboooboobo$
oobooooooooobobo$
ooboobobobbobbbo$
bboboooooobbbobb$
bboooobbobbbobbb$
bobboooobbbbbbbb$
boobobooboboobbb$
oooooobbboboboob$
obboobobooobbooo$
oooooobooboboboo$
ooobbbobbobbooob!

A 14-glider synthesis of generation 150 (synthesis completes at generation 22):
x = 46, y = 22, rule = B3/S23
24bo$25bo$12bo10b3o$4bo8bo20bo$5bo5b3o19bo$3b3o22bo4b3o4bo$27bo11bo$
27b3o9b3o4$bo4b3o9b3o$2bo5bo9bo$3o4bo11bo23b3o$43bo$29b2o13bo$29bobo$
29bo$12bo8b2o$3b3o6b2o6b2o$5bo5bobo8bo$4bo!

Backed up 40 generations:
x = 66, y = 42, rule = B3/S23
24bo$25bo$12bo10b3o$4bo8bo40bo$5bo5b3o39bo$3b3o42bo4b3o4bo$47bo11bo$
47b3o9b3o4$bo$2bo$3o18$6b3o29b3o$8bo29bo$7bo31bo23b3o$63bo$49b2o13bo$
49bobo$49bo$12bo28b2o$3b3o6b2o26b2o$5bo5bobo28bo$4bo!
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Re: Soup search results

Postby dvgrn » January 21st, 2019, 2:29 pm

Gamedziner wrote:A 14-glider synthesis of generation 150 (synthesis completes at generation 22)...

Goldtiger997's highly recommended three-glider synthesis search script allows for an improvement on this. Here's a 12-glider synthesis that after 108 ticks converges with the diehard's T=55, so there are still over a thousand ticks to go:

x = 73, y = 57, rule = B3/S23
3bobo20bobo$4b2o21b2o$4bo22bo$12bo57bo$13b2o55bobo$12b2o56b2o$32bo$33b
2o$32b2o2$68bo$68bobo$68b2o19$35bo$36bo$34b3o6$27b3o$29bo$28bo2$36b2o$
37b2o$36bo2$44b2o$8b2o34bobo$9b2o33bo$8bo4$bo$b2o$obo!

Maybe something in the following suggestions from Goldtiger997's script (with GEN_CHECK set to 80 instead of the default 8) could build the left side in three gliders also, and bring the count down to 11. A couple of the recipes toward the right end look like they might fit, and of course a replacement for the 3G->2 blocks recipe could probably be found if needed -- I just grabbed the first one that worked.

x = 830, y = 25, rule = B3/S23
4bo71bo78bo74bo70bo83bobo65bobo69bo74bo79bo75bo71bo$5bo71bo76bo76bo70b
o82b2o67b2o70b2o73b2o75b2o75bo71bo$3b3o69b3o76b3o72b3o68b3o83bo67bo70b
2o73b2o77b2o74b3o69b3o$152bo377bo74bo70bo$153bo156bo219b2o73b2o70bo$2o
7b2o64b2o74b3o149b3o3bo219bobo72bobo68b3o76b3o$b2o5b2o6j6b2o150b3o74bo
3b3o442bo$o9bo64bo152bo75bo450bo$229bo145bo74bo228b2o$150b3o72b3o148b
2o73b2o225b2o140bo$150bo76bo147b2o3bo69b2o3bo82bo65bo75bo140b2o$151bo
74bo153b2o73b2o80b2o65b2o214b2o$379bobo72bobo80bobo63bobo219bo$824bo$
824b3o$77bo$77b2o$76bobo5$750bo$750b2o$749bobo!

A gencols search allows a little more control over which directions gliders are coming from, but it sure is nice to have a very fast search program available that knows about pretty much all of the three-glider collisions.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby mniemiec » January 21st, 2019, 4:35 pm

I'm not sure how useful glider syntheses of diehards are. Technically, they can have arbitrarily long lifespans by just pulling back the gliders, so their longevity is no longer a remarkable feature, and they don't leave any usable ash for subsequent constructions.

I suppose they might be useful as intermediate unstable patterns in search scripts, e.g. phi-spark syntheses could be used when enumerating glider-phi collisions, but I don't see how smashing gliders into one particular mess created by 12 specific gliders would be any more productive than smashing gliders into any every random mess created by 12 random gliders (including ones that don't eventually die). One reason why things like glider-phi collisions are useful is that phi sparks can be easily and quickly synthesized, advantages which Rube-Goldberg diehards lack.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby dvgrn » January 21st, 2019, 5:03 pm

mniemiec wrote:I'm not sure how useful glider syntheses of diehards are...

Yeah, it's certainly an exercise in futility -- you can do "the same thing" with two gliders in a vanish reaction, starting from a little farther apart, or even a single glider bouncing back and forth between one-time turners, ending by hitting a block or blinker or whatever.

My main reason for working out a glider synthesis was to try out Goldtiger997's new shortcut search script for three-glider syntheses (and it worked very nicely, three times in a row.)

Secondarily, I was thinking of stringing together some high-period c/2 rakes to make an entry in the Spaceship with the longest plume competition. That's actually a case where you'd want to construct your nothing as slowly as possible.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby mniemiec » January 21st, 2019, 6:38 pm

dvgrn wrote:Secondarily, I was thinking of stringing together some high-period c/2 rakes to make an entry in the Spaceship with the longest plume competition. That's actually a case where you'd want to construct your nothing as slowly as possible.

That makes sense, although it would be advisable to have a diehard that takes as long as possible in as compact an area as possible, to avoid having to use high-period rakes. I suppose the largest possible ship of this kind would be a constructor-based solution that left behind patterns with the slowest possible growth rate, that ultimately self-destructed.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby 2718281828 » January 21st, 2019, 7:40 pm

Is this p4 (https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp ... 3032/b3s23) known?
x = 17, y = 17, rule = LifeHistory
7.2A.2A$8.A.2A$6.A4.A$6.5A$5.7A$4.A7.A.3A$2.3A7.2A.2A$A2.2A3.A3.2A$2A
.2A2.A.A2.2A.2A$3.2A3.A3.2A2.A$2A.2A7.3A$3A.A7.A$5.7A$6.5A$5.A4.A$5.
2A.A$5.2A.2A!

I did not find it in jslife, also no monomised version.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby mniemiec » January 21st, 2019, 11:45 pm

2718281828 wrote:Is this p4 (https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp ... 3032/b3s23) known?
... I did not find it in jslife, also no monomised version.

The interior is just that of one of the larger variants of Octagon 4 (stabilized with a tub). The external asymmetric stabilizers look familiar; I think I've seen them posted somewhere on these forums within the last couple of years, although I'm not sure exactly when or where.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby cvojan » January 29th, 2019, 8:02 pm

Failed monomerization of the Octagon 4 variant, attempting to use the t-nosed p4 for stabilization:
x = 11, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
4b2ob2o$5bo3bo$3bo4bo2$2bo5bo$bob5obo$bo7bo$2obo3bob2o$2bo5bo$2bob3obo
$3bo3bo2$3bo3bo$3bo3bo2$4b3o!
'sup.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby cvojan » January 31st, 2019, 8:21 pm

I know it's late, but here you go; a monomerization:
x = 15, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
6b2ob2o$7bo3bo$5bo4bo2$4bo5bo$3bob5obo$3bo7bo$2obobo3bobob2o$2obo7bob
2o$4bo5bo$5b5o2$4bo5bo$3b2o5b2o$3b2o5b2o$3bo7bo!
'sup.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby testitemqlstudop » February 1st, 2019, 12:39 pm

Here's a huge soup (9 billion objects!) collected from running my computer overnight:

https://catagolue.appspot.com/haul/b3s2 ... 72164f9f71

There's few interesting things, but I didn't think about looking through all 1701 objects. Does catagolue have a "sort by rarity" function?
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