## Soup search results

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

### Re: Soup search results

dvgrn says:
The exponential curve is painfully bumpy, not nice and smooth.

If the number of methusalehs in successive bins approximates to a power law, then the curve is not exponential: power law distributions approach zero much more slowly. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_law. I think there has been previous work on power laws in relation to Game of Life, concerning IIRC the size of disturbances that arise from switching the state of a single cell in a stable configuration. I'll see if I can find a reference.

(OT: My acquaintance with power laws derives from a bit of work I did around 2003-4 on the distribution of rural land holding sizes in Scotland. I found they approximated to a power law, meaning that a few greedy b******s own most of Scotland - see Andy Wightman's Who Owns Scotland (which preceded and informed my work) for a far more thorough but less mathematical treatment. My conference paper on the matter should be online somewhere, but the link I have doesn't work any more.)
NickGotts

Posts: 68
Joined: November 10th, 2011, 6:20 pm

### Re: Soup search results

dvgrn wrote:Here's a minor power-law investigation relating to regular methuselahs:
...
#C 62 soups, tub plus 2b3o$4bo$o3bo$o2bo$3o!x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S236bo2bo4bo$b2obo2bob2o$2b2o4b2o2b2obo$2bo2b3ob6o$b2obo2bo2bobo2bo$b2obobobobo2bobo$3obob2o4b2obo$b2obob2ob3o2b2o$obobobo2bo2b2o$o2bo3b2o5bo$3o6b2obobo$b2obobob2ob4o$ob3ob5ob2obo$2b2o2b3ob3o$2bo4b2o2b2obo$2o2bob2obo2bob2o! Just thought it is worth mentioning that this is in fact Lidka simeks Posts: 369 Joined: March 11th, 2015, 12:03 pm Location: Sweden ### Re: Soup search results simeks wrote: dvgrn wrote:Here's a minor power-law investigation relating to regular methuselahs: ... #C 62 soups, tub plus 2b3o$4bo$o3bo$o2bo$3o!... Just thought it is worth mentioning that this is in fact Lidka Huh, interesting. Lidka predecessors are a really common bottleneck, the most frequent overlap in the 29K bin by about a factor of two. It's possible to sort the output of my script to find which 16x16 pattern has an ancestor that takes the longest to evolve into Lidka. It turns out to be this one: #C 247-tick predecessor of original Lidka, total survival time 29,300 ticks#C https://catagolue.appspot.com/hashsoup/C1/l_xsQF3KKe8cgm3386587/b3s23x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23ob3o2b3ob2obo$obo2bo4bo3b2o$bo2bo2bob2o2b2o$2b2o3bo3b4o$5bo2bo4b2o$o2bo2bo2bo5bo$ob2ob6o2bo$b3o3bobo2bob2o$b3o2bob2o3b2o$4b4o2b2ob3o$5o3bob2ob2o$b2ob3obo2b5o$bo2b2ob2o4b3o$6obo$o2b2o3b3obo2bo$o2b3ob4obo2bo!

But of course Catagolue has probably thrown out sixty-odd more Lidka predecessors just after the bin filled up, and many thousands more since Year Zero of apgsearch. So there are probably older ancestors within reach of a dedicated search, though Catagolue won't notice them unless the storage rules are changed.

-- Not that there's any particular market for Lidka predecessors... but I wonder if copies of 32829M are piling up in the 32K and 33K bins?

We know for sure that 40514M (the next possible low-population bottleneck pattern in the long-lived methuselahs list) isn't waiting to be rediscovered in the 40K bin, since apgsearch is still stubbornly refusing to find any methuselahs at all in the 40nnn range.

NickGotts wrote:dvgrn says:
The exponential curve is painfully bumpy, not nice and smooth.

If the number of methusalehs in successive bins approximates to a power law, then the curve is not exponential: power law distributions approach zero much more slowly. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_law.

I've read the Wikipedia treatment of power-law approximations, and am now more confused than when I started. Everyone should take both terms I used, "exponential" and "power law", with several grains of salt.

In other words, I'm definitely not at all clear on what the best statistical method would be for fitting a predictive equation to the long-tail curve of counts in the 1000-tick methuselah bins. It just seemed interesting that the apparent excessive noise in the counts for some of the lower bins, could be at least partly explained by early low-population bottlenecks like Lidka.

I suppose something similar might be true for statistical bumps in the N-bit still life counts: if you remove duplicates that are due to the exact same low-bit-count predecessor, maybe the remaining counts would be easier to fit to... um... some smooth curve or other.

-----------------------------------

Meanwhile, here's a version of the methuselah fingerprinter script that handles pulsars as well as beacons correctly, and makes just one call to Catagolue instead of up to five hundred, using lifelib calls to re-create the soups from a list of soup sample hashes. That link is really most of what is needed -- at least for C1 soups, it's pretty easy to produce them directly from the hash string -- but for now I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to improve the script to take input from the user about which bin to process, and maybe remove the dependency on lifelib if that causes trouble for too many people.

(In theory, acquiring lifelib is as simple as pip install python-lifelib, but on Windows it's also necessary to install Cygwin. And people may run into other speed bumps that I haven't thought of yet.)

Anyway:

# methuselah-fingerprinter-stride-6.pyimport golly as gimport urllib2import lifelib############################################                                                            #lifelib.add_cygdir(r'C:\cygwin\cygwin64')  #  Replace this directory as appropriate for your own system #                                           ##############################################################sess = lifelib.load_rules('b3s23')lt = sess.lifetree()samples = lt.download_samples('b3s23','methuselah_30k')# quick test that lifelib is functioning correctly ########## g.note("Number of C1 samples: " + str(len(samples['C1'])))# g.note("This is what the 41st sample looks like: \n" + str(samples['C1'][40]))binlimit = 31000def runget(lastmin):  g.run(1)  p = int(g.getpop())  if lastmin>p: lastmin = p  return p, lastmin  lookup="0123456789ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ_!abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz"all, count = "", 0fname = g.getdir("temp")+"soup.rle"for item in samples['C1']:  item.save(fname)  g.open(fname)  count+=1  g.fit()  g.update()  curmod0pop = int(g.getpop())  min = curmod0pop  curmod1pop, min = runget(min)  curmod2pop, min = runget(min)  curmod3pop, min = runget(min)  curmod4pop, min = runget(min)  curmod5pop, min = runget(min)  arr = []  for i in range(binlimit/6+1):    newmod0pop, min = runget(min)    newmod1pop, min = runget(min)    newmod2pop, min = runget(min)    newmod3pop, min = runget(min)    newmod4pop, min = runget(min)    newmod5pop, min = runget(min)    arr+=[newmod0pop-curmod0pop,newmod1pop-curmod1pop,newmod2pop-curmod2pop,newmod3pop-curmod3pop,newmod4pop-curmod4pop,newmod5pop-curmod5pop]    curmod0pop, curmod1pop, curmod2pop, curmod3pop, curmod4pop, curmod5pop = newmod0pop, newmod1pop, newmod2pop, newmod3pop, newmod4pop, newmod5pop    if i%100==0:      g.show("Soup #" + str(count) + ", T = " + str(i*6))  ptr = binlimit-1  s=""  while ptr>0:    if arr[ptr]!=0: break    ptr-=1  while ptr>0:    s+=lookup[arr[ptr]%64]    ptr -= 1  all+="Soup #" + str(count).ljust(4) + "Min: "+ str(min).ljust(4) + s + "\n"g.note("Done!  Click OK to copy results to the clipboard.")g.setclipstr(all)

This was tested against the 30k bin (hardcoded a couple of places in the script), and as expected from the relatively low population of the bin, there are only 17 overlapping methuselahs, all due to fairly low-population bottlenecks:

# predecessor of "pi plus 3 blocks and 2 boats"C1/l_xc6ESG65SQiM18454601   Soup #114 Min: 32C1/l_h87jdfEbnuJe123404158  Soup #212 Min: 26C1/l_WLRPFsB7d4nv6265948    Soup #487 Min: 30C1/l_4ApGCvbeHruv19387759   Soup #139 Min: 31C1/l_PHVF44YYqHsT17098941   Soup #259 Min: 24C1/l_qrQnE9nQsxUx4197988    Soup #20  Min: 23C1/l_g9gyBfvQJSE910169933   Soup #484 Min: 21C1/l_jqueKG6XH5sC15085823   Soup #427 Min: 26C1/l_hbG7Js27XHHC14647911   Soup #221 Min: 18C1/l_jfBNw3pbmXtm6437394    Soup #119 Min: 23C1/l_h4JjAZb4X65u20697923   Soup #358 Min: 17C1/l_vZF8TbCUEHJM276840       Soup #59  Min: 20C1/l_rps9vD2BbfwE36506758   Soup #363 Min: 31C1/l_xmmaxw7tvugw20250641   Soup #497 Min: 34# R-pentomino plus blinker plus block plus junkx = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23o2b2ob2obobo2bo$2o6b2o2bo2bo$ob2ob5o4bo$6obo2bo3b2o$4ob2o2bob2obo$2o2b5ob2ob2o$ob2ob3o2bo2bo$5bob3obobo$obo2bob2o5b2o$o6bobo2bo2bo$4bob2obob5o$bo3b3o2b4o$o4b2o2b2o2bo$bob2obo6bo$o5bo2bob2o$3b2o9b2o!C1/l_EPAky7dWczBR207300 Soup #47 Min: 21C1/l_cTD4fz4Kw8Qv77625108 Soup #324 Min: 19C1/l_QB7gRjJUMbV45083840 Soup #419 Min: 21 By contrast, the next lower bin, 29K, has somewhat over twice the methuselah count (where it "should" be only something like 1.7 times, going by the average probability ratio between bins). But it has 120 duplicates instead of less than 20, due to Lidka and other bottleneck attractors. dvgrn Moderator Posts: 5216 Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm Location: Madison, WI ### Re: Soup search results Third distinct 2xQB oscillator in C1: x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23oboobbbooobobooo$oobbobbobbbboobo$bbbbbobobobooooo$oooobbbbbbobbbob$bbbobbobooboobbo$obobobbooooooobo$bobooobbbboboooo$bbboboooooooboob$obobbooooooooooo$bbobobbbbobobbbb$obobbbbobboobooo$ooooobbbbbbbboob$obobbbbbobbobobb$obbbbbooooobbbob$bbbbbbooobbbbbbo$obbboobobbbobobb!
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all

Aidan F. Pierce

A for awesome

Posts: 1695
Joined: September 13th, 2014, 5:36 pm
Location: 0x-1

### Re: Soup search results

A 1209-generation diehard in C4_1, found by Ian07 on December 15:

#C messless_12h#C C4_1 sample soup ? of ?#C https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/messless_12h/b3s23/C4_1#C https://catagolue.appspot.com/hashsoup/C4_1/l_thmxq7bYWxMj9191681/b3s23#C https://catagolue.appspot.com/haul/b3s23/C4_1/634f4a375272ee8f77561f29d3b3ac4dx = 31, y = 31, rule = B3/S23bobobbooobbooboobbobbooboboobbb$bboboobooobboboobbbbobbobobbobo$bobobbbbobobbbobbbooooboooobbob$obbooobbbbooboboboboooboobooobo$oboobboboboobbobbobbbooobobobob$boobobbbboobbbbobbobooboobbobob$oboobobobbbbboooobbobobbbbobbbo$booooobboooobobbobobbbbbobbbboo$obbbobbbbobobboooobbbobobbobooo$obooooobobbobbbobooboboobobbbob$booobobbboobooooobooobboboooobb$bboobbobbboobobobboobooobboobbo$obobbobobooobooobbbbobbbbbbbboo$bbboobbboobbboooboooobboobbobbb$bbbbbbooobobbbooooobobobobobooo$ooboboobooooooooooooooobooboboo$ooobobobobobooooobbbobooobbbbbb$bbbobboobboooobooobbboobbboobbb$oobbbbbbbbobbbbooobooobobobbobo$obboobboooboobboboboobbbobboobb$bboooobobboooboooooboobbbobooob$bobbbobooboboobobbbobbobooooobo$ooobobbobobbboooobbobobbbbobbbo$oobbbbobbbbbobobboboooobbooooob$obbbobbbbobobboooobbbbboboboobo$bobobbooboobobbobbbboobbbboboob$bobobobooobbbobbobboobobobboobo$obooobooboooboboboboobbbbooobbo$bobbooooboooobbbobbbobobbbbobob$obobbobobbobbbboobobboooboobobb$bbbooboboobbobbooboobbooobbobob!
If you speak, your speech must be better than your silence would have been. — Arabian proverb

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Apple Bottom

Posts: 1016
Joined: July 27th, 2015, 2:06 pm

### Re: Soup search results

27742-gen methuselah that also emits a LWSS:

(I took the seed, SHA256-ed it, converted to binary, then converted it to a 16x16 square - is there a better way?)

o.o.oo....o..o.....o.o.o.o....o.o..ooooo.ooo.o..o.o.oo.o.o...oo.oo.o.o...ooooo.o.o....o..o.........ooo..o.oooo......o..o.o..oo.ooooo.ooooo.ooooo..o..o.o...ooo..o...o.o.o..o..ooo..o.oo.oo.o.o.ooo.ooo..ooo.oo....o..oo..ooooo..oo..oooo.o......oooooooo.o.o...o
zdr wrote:Nice archive.
They will not win.

testitemqlstudop

Posts: 249
Joined: July 21st, 2016, 11:45 am

### Re: Soup search results

testitemqlstudop wrote:(I took the seed, SHA256-ed it, converted to binary, then converted it to a 16x16 square - is there a better way?)

Catagolue can actually do this for you:
https://catagolue.appspot.com/hashsoup/<symmetry>/<seed>/<rule>
Ian07

Posts: 120
Joined: September 22nd, 2018, 8:48 am

### Re: Soup search results

Was searching b3s23/D8_4, very rewarding:

x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3/S23oobobbbobobboooooooobbobobbboboo$oobobbobbbboobooooboobbbbobboboo$bbboobobooobobbbbbboboooboboobbb$oooboboobooooboooobooooboobobooo$bboooooobbboboboobobobbboooooobb$bbbboboooobobbobbobboboooobobbbb$boooooooboobboooooobboobooooooob$obboooooooooooobboooooooooooobbo$bbobboboooooooboobooooooobobbobb$obooboooobbbbboooobbbbbooooboobo$bboobbooobbbobobbobobbbooobboobb$boboooboobboboboobobobboobooobob$oooobbboobobbbbbbbbbboboobbboooo$obbbobooobbobbboobbbobbooobobbbo$ooboboooboobbbbbbbbbbooboooboboo$oobooboboobobobbbboboboobobooboo$oobooboboobobobbbboboboobobooboo$ooboboooboobbbbbbbbbbooboooboboo$obbbobooobbobbboobbbobbooobobbbo$oooobbboobobbbbbbbbbboboobbboooo$boboooboobboboboobobobboobooobob$bboobbooobbbobobbobobbbooobboobb$obooboooobbbbboooobbbbbooooboobo$bbobboboooooooboobooooooobobbobb$obboooooooooooobboooooooooooobbo$boooooooboobboooooobboobooooooob$bbbboboooobobbobbobboboooobobbbb$bboooooobbboboboobobobbboooooobb$oooboboobooooboooobooooboobobooo$bbboobobooobobbbbbboboooboboobbb$oobobbobbbboobooooboobbbbobboboo$oobobbbobobboooooooobbobobbboboo! x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3/S23obbbboboboooboboobobooobobobbbbo$bbbboooboboobobooboboobobooobbbb$bbooobbbboobboobboobboobbbbooobb$bboboobbbbbbbboooobbbbbbbboobobb$booobbobbobobbbbbbbbobobbobbooob$oobobboooboooobbbboooobooobboboo$bobboobobobobobbbboboboboboobbob$obbbboobboobooobboooboobboobbbbo$bobbbobbboobooobboooboobbbobbbob$oboboboooobooobooboooboooobobobo$ooobboboobbboobooboobbboobobbooo$oobbooobbobbbbobbobbbbobbooobboo$bbbbboboooobobbbbbboboooobobbbbb$ooobboooooobbbbbbbbbboooooobbooo$bboobbboobbobboooobbobboobbboobb$oobobbbbboobbbobbobbboobbbbboboo$oobobbbbboobbbobbobbboobbbbboboo$bboobbboobbobboooobbobboobbboobb$ooobboooooobbbbbbbbbboooooobbooo$bbbbboboooobobbbbbboboooobobbbbb$oobbooobbobbbbobbobbbbobbooobboo$ooobboboobbboobooboobbboobobbooo$oboboboooobooobooboooboooobobobo$bobbbobbboobooobboooboobbbobbbob$obbbboobboobooobboooboobboobbbbo$bobboobobobobobbbboboboboboobbob$oobobboooboooobbbboooobooobboboo$booobbobbobobbbbbbbbobobbobbooob$bboboobbbbbbbboooobbbbbbbboobobb$bbooobbbboobboobboobboobbbbooobb$bbbboooboboobobooboboobobooobbbb$obbbboboboooboboobobooobobobbbbo!

x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3/S23boboobooobbbbobbbbobbbboooboobob$obobbbbbboboboboobobobobbbbbbobo$boboboobbbbbboboobobbbbbboobobob$oboobbbobbboboboobobobbbobbboobo$obbbbboboobboboooobobboobobbbbbo$bbobbbbobbboboobboobobbbobbbbobb$obobobobbbooobbbbbbooobbbobobobo$obbobobobbboboooooobobbbobobobbo$obbbobbbooobobbbbbbobooobbbobbbo$bobbobbboobbboboobobbboobbbobbob$bbbbbboboboboooooooobobobobbbbbb$bobobooobbbbobbbbbbobbbbooobobob$bbbboboboboooobooboooobobobobbbb$oooobobobooboobooboobooboboboooo$bbbboobobbobbboooobbbobboboobbbb$boooobboboobooooooooboobobboooob$boooobboboobooooooooboobobboooob$bbbboobobbobbboooobbbobboboobbbb$oooobobobooboobooboobooboboboooo$bbbboboboboooobooboooobobobobbbb$bobobooobbbbobbbbbbobbbbooobobob$bbbbbboboboboooooooobobobobbbbbb$bobbobbboobbboboobobbboobbbobbob$obbbobbbooobobbbbbbobooobbbobbbo$obbobobobbboboooooobobbbobobobbo$obobobobbbooobbbbbbooobbbobobobo$bbobbbbobbboboobboobobbbobbbbobb$obbbbboboobboboooobobboobobbbbbo$oboobbbobbboboboobobobbbobbboobo$boboboobbbbbboboobobbbbbboobobob$obobbbbbboboboboobobobobbbbbbobo$boboobooobbbbobbbbobbbboooboobob! x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3/S23ooobbobbbbboobobboboobbbbbobbooo$oobbboboooboboooooobobooobobbboo$obbobbbobbobbbbbbbbbbobbobbbobbo$bbobbobbobooboobbooboobobbobbobb$bbbboooboobooobooboooboobooobbbb$ooboobbboobboboooobobboobbbooboo$bbbbobbbobbbbbobbobbbbbobbbobbbb$boobbbboooboooboobooobooobbbboob$boboooooboooboboobobooobooooobob$bobboobooobbobboobbobboooboobbob$bboobbbbobobbbboobbbbobobbbboobb$ooboobboobbobbboobbbobboobbooboo$obbboobobobboobbbboobboboboobbbo$boboobboobbboboooobobbboobboobob$ooboboobbbbbbobbbbobbbbbbooboboo$bobboobooooobobooboboooooboobbob$bobboobooooobobooboboooooboobbob$ooboboobbbbbbobbbbobbbbbbooboboo$boboobboobbboboooobobbboobboobob$obbboobobobboobbbboobboboboobbbo$ooboobboobbobbboobbbobboobbooboo$bboobbbbobobbbboobbbbobobbbboobb$bobboobooobbobboobbobboooboobbob$boboooooboooboboobobooobooooobob$boobbbboooboooboobooobooobbbboob$bbbbobbbobbbbbobbobbbbbobbbobbbb$ooboobbboobboboooobobboobbbooboo$bbbboooboobooobooboooboobooobbbb$bbobbobbobooboobbooboobobbobbobb$obbobbbobbobbbbbbbbbbobbobbbobbo$oobbboboooboboooooobobooobobbboo$ooobbobbbbboobobboboobbbbbobbooo!

x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3/S23bboooooobbbbboobboobbbbboooooobb$bobbbobbobboobboobboobbobbobbbob$obobbobbboobooooooooboobbbobbobo$obboooobbobbbobbbbobbbobboooobbo$obbooboboobbobbbbbbobbooboboobbo$oooobbboooboooobboooobooobbboooo$obboobboooobooooooooboooobboobbo$obbbboooboooooobboooooobooobbbbo$bobboooboobobobooboboboobooobbob$bboooooooboobbboobbboobooooooobb$bbobbboobooooboooobooooboobbbobb$bobbboboooobbbbbbbbbboooobobbbob$booboooobbobboboobobbobbooooboob$obooboooobbbobbbbbbobbbooooboobo$obobbooobbobbboooobbbobbooobbobo$boobbbobooobobobbobobooobobbboob$boobbbobooobobobbobobooobobbboob$obobbooobbobbboooobbbobbooobbobo$obooboooobbbobbbbbbobbbooooboobo$booboooobbobboboobobbobbooooboob$bobbboboooobbbbbbbbbboooobobbbob$bbobbboobooooboooobooooboobbbobb$bboooooooboobbboobbboobooooooobb$bobboooboobobobooboboboobooobbob$obbbboooboooooobboooooobooobbbbo$obboobboooobooooooooboooobboobbo$oooobbboooboooobboooobooobbboooo$obbooboboobbobbbbbbobbooboboobbo$obboooobbobbbobbbbobbbobboooobbo$obobbobbboobooooooooboobbbobbobo$bobbbobbobboobboobboobbobbobbbob$bboooooobbbbboobboobbbbboooooobb! x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3/S23obbooobbooobooobbooobooobbooobbo$booboooobboboobbbboobobbooooboob$boobbobooobbobboobbobbooobobboob$obboobbbobobobobbobobobobbboobbo$oobobbbbbooobbobbobbooobbbbboboo$ooobboobboboboooooobobobboobbooo$bobbbobboboobbobbobboobobbobbbob$boobbbbboooooobooboooooobbbbboob$oboobbooboboboobbooboboboobboobo$oboboobooobbooobbooobboooboobobo$oobooboobbooboobbooboobboobooboo$bbbbooooobobbbboobbbbobooooobbbb$oooobbbobobbobboobbobbobobbboooo$oobbboboooobboobboobboooobobbboo$obboooobooobbobbbbobboooboooobbo$bbobbobobbboobbbbbboobbbobobbobb$bbobbobobbboobbbbbboobbbobobbobb$obboooobooobbobbbbobboooboooobbo$oobbboboooobboobboobboooobobbboo$oooobbbobobbobboobbobbobobbboooo$bbbbooooobobbbboobbbbobooooobbbb$oobooboobbooboobbooboobboobooboo$oboboobooobbooobbooobboooboobobo$oboobbooboboboobbooboboboobboobo$boobbbbboooooobooboooooobbbbboob$bobbbobboboobbobbobboobobbobbbob$ooobboobboboboooooobobobboobbooo$oobobbbbbooobbobbobbooobbbbboboo$obboobbbobobobobbobobobobbboobbo$boobbobooobbobboobbobbooobobboob$booboooobboboobbbboobobbooooboob$obbooobbooobooobbooobooobbooobbo!

x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3/S23obobooobbbbooobbbbooobbbbooobobo$bbbooooobbboobbbbbboobbbooooobbb$obbbbbobboobbbbbbbbbboobbobbbbbo$boboboooobobbbboobbbboboooobobob$oobboooobobbbbobbobbbboboooobboo$oobooobobbooboobbooboobboboooboo$ooooobbooboobbboobbbooboobbooooo$bobooooboobbbbbbbbbbbbooboooobob$bbbobboobbbobbobbobbobbboobbobbb$bbobobboboboboooooobobobobbobobb$bbooboobbbobbobbbbobbobbbooboobb$oobbbooboobobbobbobbobooboobbboo$oobbbbbbbbbbbobbbbobbbbbbbbbbboo$obbbbobbboobooobboooboobbbobbbbo$bbbboobbooboboobbooboboobboobbbb$bbbobbobbobbbbboobbbbbobbobbobbb$bbbobbobbobbbbboobbbbbobbobbobbb$bbbboobbooboboobbooboboobboobbbb$obbbbobbboobooobboooboobbbobbbbo$oobbbbbbbbbbbobbbbobbbbbbbbbbboo$oobbbooboobobbobbobbobooboobbboo$bbooboobbbobbobbbbobbobbbooboobb$bbobobboboboboooooobobobobbobobb$bbbobboobbbobbobbobbobbboobbobbb$bobooooboobbbbbbbbbbbbooboooobob$ooooobbooboobbboobbbooboobbooooo$oobooobobbooboobbooboobboboooboo$oobboooobobbbbobbobbbboboooobboo$boboboooobobbbboobbbboboooobobob$obbbbbobboobbbbbbbbbboobbobbbbbo$bbbooooobbboobbbbbboobbbooooobbb$obobooobbbbooobbbbooobbbbooobobo! x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3/S23bbbobbbobbbbbbboobbbbbbbobbbobbb$bobboobbbbooobobbobooobbbboobbob$bbobbobbbooobobbbbobooobbbobbobb$obbobbobbooobobbbbobooobbobbobbo$bobbboboobbbboobboobbbboobobbbob$booboboobobbbobbbbobbbobooboboob$bbbobobobboooobooboooobbobobobbb$obbbooobobobobobbobobobobooobbbo$bbbbobbobboboobbbboobobbobbobbbb$bboobobbbooboobbbbooboobbboboobb$booobboooobobobbbboboboooobbooob$booobbobbbobboboobobbobbbobbooob$bobbbboooobboooooooobboooobbbbob$bbooooobooooobboobbooooobooooobb$bobbobbobbbbobobbobobbbbobbobbob$obbbbbobbbbooobbbbooobbbbobbbbbo$obbbbbobbbbooobbbbooobbbbobbbbbo$bobbobbobbbbobobbobobbbbobbobbob$bbooooobooooobboobbooooobooooobb$bobbbboooobboooooooobboooobbbbob$booobbobbbobboboobobbobbbobbooob$booobboooobobobbbboboboooobbooob$bboobobbbooboobbbbooboobbboboobb$bbbbobbobboboobbbboobobbobbobbbb$obbbooobobobobobbobobobobooobbbo$bbbobobobboooobooboooobbobobobbb$booboboobobbbobbbbobbbobooboboob$bobbboboobbbboobboobbbboobobbbob$obbobbobbooobobbbbobooobbobbobbo$bbobbobbbooobobbbbobooobbbobbobb$bobboobbbbooobobbobooobbbboobbob$bbbobbbobbbbbbboobbbbbbbobbbobbb!

x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3/S23bobbbbboobbbbboooobbbbboobbbbbob$obboooobbobbbobbbbobbbobboooobbo$bbboooooooboobobboboobooooooobbb$boobooobbbbbboobboobbbbbboooboob$boooooooooboooooooooobooooooooob$booooooooboobbbbbbbbooboooooooob$boooooobooooobboobboooooboooooob$obobooboboboobboobbooboboboobobo$obobooobobboobobboboobbobooobobo$booboboobobboooooooobbobooboboob$bbbbboobbbboobbbbbboobbbboobbbbb$bbobooooobobbbboobbbbobooooobobb$bbobobooooobobboobbobooooobobobb$boboobbbbobbbbbbbbbbbbobbbboobob$obooobbboobbbbobbobbbboobbbooobo$obbbobooboboobbbbbbooboboobobbbo$obbbobooboboobbbbbbooboboobobbbo$obooobbboobbbbobbobbbboobbbooobo$boboobbbbobbbbbbbbbbbbobbbboobob$bbobobooooobobboobbobooooobobobb$bbobooooobobbbboobbbbobooooobobb$bbbbboobbbboobbbbbboobbbboobbbbb$booboboobobboooooooobbobooboboob$obobooobobboobobboboobbobooobobo$obobooboboboobboobbooboboboobobo$boooooobooooobboobboooooboooooob$booooooooboobbbbbbbbooboooooooob$boooooooooboooooooooobooooooooob$boobooobbbbbboobboobbbbbboooboob$bbboooooooboobobboboobooooooobbb$obboooobbobbbobbbbobbbobboooobbo$bobbbbboobbbbboooobbbbboobbbbbob! zdr wrote:Nice archive. I am the Retrograde Anomaly. They will not win. testitemqlstudop Posts: 249 Joined: July 21st, 2016, 11:45 am ### Re: Soup search results The 1000-tick barrier has finally been broken for 16x16 diehards: #N messless1041x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23o2b2ob2o2bobobo$2b7o2bo$o3b4o4b4o$obob5obobobo$b3o3b2o5b2o$2b4ob2ob3ob2o$b2o2b3ob3ob2o$b2o2bob3obob2o$b5obob2ob2o$b2obo4b2ob2o$bo2b2o5b3obo$obob2ob2ob3obo$2ob5obob2o$2obobo2b6o$b5ob2obobo$o11b2obo!

Obviously the initial population can be reduced somewhat. Around T=230-260, or farther back around T=140, looks like a decent target for a glider synthesis, but I'm not sure exactly what the point would be of building nothing so inefficiently.

EDIT: Fixed quoted pattern. @Macbi and @Saka, thanks for pointing out the problem.

dvgrn
Moderator

Posts: 5216
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm

### Re: Soup search results

I think you put the wrong pattern in the codeblock. That one only lasts for 936 generations.

Macbi

Posts: 575
Joined: March 29th, 2009, 4:58 am

### Re: Soup search results

Has anyone noticed a variant of 28P7.2 emerged?:
http://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp7_0cai3y18oz65111whjldzy31/b3s23
The former account 'David' is lost and unused.
Dannyu NDos

Posts: 1
Joined: January 6th, 2019, 3:27 am

### Re: Soup search results

Two almost-complete syntheses:

x = 134, y = 82, rule = LifeHistory98.A$98.A.A$98.2A$32.A29.3A29.3A$31.A.A74.A$31.A.A74.A.A$32.A75.2A$64.A.A.2A26.A.A.2A26.A.A.2A$27.2A7.2A25.A.3A.A5.A19.A.3A.A5.A19.A.3A.A$26.A2.A5.A2.A24.A11.A19.A11.A19.A$27.2A7.2A26.A.2A.A5.A20.A.2A.A5.A20.A.2A.A$65.2A.2A27.2A.2A27.2A.2A$32.A$31.A.A$31.A.A10.A$32.A10.A$43.3A6.3A$52.A$53.A$44.3A$34.D9.A$35.D9.A$32.2D.D$32.3D$32.2D5$33.3D.3D$30.D4.D.D$29.3D.3D.3D$30.D4.D3.D$33.3D.3D6$3A$2.A$.A10$56.2A23.2A30.2A$55.A2.A21.A2.A28.A2.A$55.A.2A21.A.2A28.A.2A$54.2A23.2A30.2A$53.A2.3A19.A2.3A26.A2.3A$23.D29.A.A2.A19.A.A2.A26.A.A2.A$22.D.D3.D25.2A23.2A30.2A$22.D.2D.3D$23.D.2D2.2D$26.3D10$57.2A23.2A$57.2A23.2A$19.2A2.2A54.2A$18.A.A2.A.A52.A.A$20.A2.A56.A3$12.2A15.D3.D2.D.D$13.2A10.D2.2D2.2D2.D.D$12.A11.3D2.D3.D2.3D$25.D3.D3.D4.D$28.3D.3D3.D!

In the second synthesis, the missing object is just a beehive + B-heptomino. I don't know if either of these would end up being improvements, but it seems likely for the top one, and reasonable for the bottom.

gmc_nxtman

Posts: 1146
Joined: May 26th, 2015, 7:20 pm

### Re: Soup search results

The first yl1536, found by an anonymous user:
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23oooobobbbboooobo$oboobbobooobbooo$obobbbobooooobob$oboobobbbooooobo$ooobobobobobbobo$bobooooobobboboo$booboooooooobbob$oobboboobbobobob$bbobobbbbooooooo$oobbobbobboboboo$bobobbbbbbboobob$oboobobbobobboob$obbbobbobbooooob$bbbbbbbooooobobb$booobobbbobooobb$oooobbbbbbbbbboo! All hail WADUFI our king. cordership3 Posts: 119 Joined: August 23rd, 2016, 8:53 am Location: haha long boy ### Re: Soup search results A 1058-gen diehard popped up in C1, beating the previous record of 1041: x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23bbobbbbboboooooo$bobbboooboobbboo$ooobobooooobbobo$bbboboobobboobob$ooooooobbooooobo$bobobboboooboobo$oobooooooooobobo$ooboobobobbobbbo$bboboooooobbbobb$bboooobbobbbobbb$bobboooobbbbbbbb$boobobooboboobbb$oooooobbboboboob$obboobobooobbooo$oooooobooboboboo$ooobbbobbobbooob!

Found by one of Dave Greene's instances. Its evolution only crosses over with the 1041-gen diehard when it becomes a domino spark on generation 1057. Haul
▄▀
▀▀▀

Billabob

Posts: 140
Joined: April 2nd, 2015, 5:28 pm

### Re: Soup search results

Billabob wrote:A 1058-gen diehard popped up in C1, beating the previous record of 1041:

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23bbobbbbboboooooo$bobbboooboobbboo$ooobobooooobbobo$bbboboobobboobob$ooooooobbooooobo$bobobboboooboobo$oobooooooooobobo$ooboobobobbobbbo$bboboooooobbbobb$bboooobbobbbobbb$bobboooobbbbbbbb$boobobooboboobbb$oooooobbboboboob$obboobobooobbooo$oooooobooboboboo$ooobbbobbobbooob! Found by one of Dave Greene's instances. Its evolution only crosses over with the 1041-gen diehard when it becomes a domino spark on generation 1057. Haul Congratulations! 2nd quadruple-digit diehard! zdr wrote:Nice archive. I am the Retrograde Anomaly. They will not win. testitemqlstudop Posts: 249 Joined: July 21st, 2016, 11:45 am ### Re: Soup search results Billabob wrote:A 1058-gen diehard popped up in C1, beating the previous record of 1041: x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23bbobbbbboboooooo$bobbboooboobbboo$ooobobooooobbobo$bbboboobobboobob$ooooooobbooooobo$bobobboboooboobo$oobooooooooobobo$ooboobobobbobbbo$bboboooooobbbobb$bboooobbobbbobbb$bobboooobbbbbbbb$boobobooboboobbb$oooooobbboboboob$obboobobooobbooo$oooooobooboboboo$ooobbbobbobbooob!

A 14-glider synthesis of generation 150 (synthesis completes at generation 22):
x = 46, y = 22, rule = B3/S2324bo$25bo$12bo10b3o$4bo8bo20bo$5bo5b3o19bo$3b3o22bo4b3o4bo$27bo11bo$27b3o9b3o4$bo4b3o9b3o$2bo5bo9bo$3o4bo11bo23b3o$43bo$29b2o13bo$29bobo$29bo$12bo8b2o$3b3o6b2o6b2o$5bo5bobo8bo$4bo!

Backed up 40 generations:
x = 66, y = 42, rule = B3/S2324bo$25bo$12bo10b3o$4bo8bo40bo$5bo5b3o39bo$3b3o42bo4b3o4bo$47bo11bo$47b3o9b3o4$bo$2bo$3o18$6b3o29b3o$8bo29bo$7bo31bo23b3o$63bo$49b2o13bo$49bobo$49bo$12bo28b2o$3b3o6b2o26b2o$5bo5bobo28bo$4bo! Gamedziner Posts: 605 Joined: May 30th, 2016, 8:47 pm Location: Milky Way Galaxy: Planet Earth ### Re: Soup search results Gamedziner wrote:A 14-glider synthesis of generation 150 (synthesis completes at generation 22)... Goldtiger997's highly recommended three-glider synthesis search script allows for an improvement on this. Here's a 12-glider synthesis that after 108 ticks converges with the diehard's T=55, so there are still over a thousand ticks to go: x = 73, y = 57, rule = B3/S233bobo20bobo$4b2o21b2o$4bo22bo$12bo57bo$13b2o55bobo$12b2o56b2o$32bo$33b2o$32b2o2$68bo$68bobo$68b2o19$35bo$36bo$34b3o6$27b3o$29bo$28bo2$36b2o$37b2o$36bo2$44b2o$8b2o34bobo$9b2o33bo$8bo4$bo$b2o$obo!

Maybe something in the following suggestions from Goldtiger997's script (with GEN_CHECK set to 80 instead of the default 8) could build the left side in three gliders also, and bring the count down to 11. A couple of the recipes toward the right end look like they might fit, and of course a replacement for the 3G->2 blocks recipe could probably be found if needed -- I just grabbed the first one that worked.

x = 830, y = 25, rule = B3/S234bo71bo78bo74bo70bo83bobo65bobo69bo74bo79bo75bo71bo$5bo71bo76bo76bo70bo82b2o67b2o70b2o73b2o75b2o75bo71bo$3b3o69b3o76b3o72b3o68b3o83bo67bo70b2o73b2o77b2o74b3o69b3o$152bo377bo74bo70bo$153bo156bo219b2o73b2o70bo$2o7b2o64b2o74b3o149b3o3bo219bobo72bobo68b3o76b3o$b2o5b2o6j6b2o150b3o74bo3b3o442bo$o9bo64bo152bo75bo450bo$229bo145bo74bo228b2o$150b3o72b3o148b2o73b2o225b2o140bo$150bo76bo147b2o3bo69b2o3bo82bo65bo75bo140b2o$151bo74bo153b2o73b2o80b2o65b2o214b2o$379bobo72bobo80bobo63bobo219bo$824bo$824b3o$77bo$77b2o$76bobo5$750bo$750b2o$749bobo!

A gencols search allows a little more control over which directions gliders are coming from, but it sure is nice to have a very fast search program available that knows about pretty much all of the three-glider collisions.

dvgrn
Moderator

Posts: 5216
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm

### Re: Soup search results

I'm not sure how useful glider syntheses of diehards are. Technically, they can have arbitrarily long lifespans by just pulling back the gliders, so their longevity is no longer a remarkable feature, and they don't leave any usable ash for subsequent constructions.

I suppose they might be useful as intermediate unstable patterns in search scripts, e.g. phi-spark syntheses could be used when enumerating glider-phi collisions, but I don't see how smashing gliders into one particular mess created by 12 specific gliders would be any more productive than smashing gliders into any every random mess created by 12 random gliders (including ones that don't eventually die). One reason why things like glider-phi collisions are useful is that phi sparks can be easily and quickly synthesized, advantages which Rube-Goldberg diehards lack.
mniemiec

Posts: 969
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 12:00 am

### Re: Soup search results

mniemiec wrote:I'm not sure how useful glider syntheses of diehards are...

Yeah, it's certainly an exercise in futility -- you can do "the same thing" with two gliders in a vanish reaction, starting from a little farther apart, or even a single glider bouncing back and forth between one-time turners, ending by hitting a block or blinker or whatever.

My main reason for working out a glider synthesis was to try out Goldtiger997's new shortcut search script for three-glider syntheses (and it worked very nicely, three times in a row.)

Secondarily, I was thinking of stringing together some high-period c/2 rakes to make an entry in the Spaceship with the longest plume competition. That's actually a case where you'd want to construct your nothing as slowly as possible.

dvgrn
Moderator

Posts: 5216
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm

### Re: Soup search results

dvgrn wrote:Secondarily, I was thinking of stringing together some high-period c/2 rakes to make an entry in the Spaceship with the longest plume competition. That's actually a case where you'd want to construct your nothing as slowly as possible.

That makes sense, although it would be advisable to have a diehard that takes as long as possible in as compact an area as possible, to avoid having to use high-period rakes. I suppose the largest possible ship of this kind would be a constructor-based solution that left behind patterns with the slowest possible growth rate, that ultimately self-destructed.
mniemiec

Posts: 969
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 12:00 am

### Re: Soup search results

Is this p4 (https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp ... 3032/b3s23) known?
x = 17, y = 17, rule = LifeHistory7.2A.2A$8.A.2A$6.A4.A$6.5A$5.7A$4.A7.A.3A$2.3A7.2A.2A$A2.2A3.A3.2A$2A.2A2.A.A2.2A.2A$3.2A3.A3.2A2.A$2A.2A7.3A$3A.A7.A$5.7A$6.5A$5.A4.A$5.2A.A$5.2A.2A!

I did not find it in jslife, also no monomised version.

2718281828

Posts: 509
Joined: August 8th, 2017, 5:38 pm

### Re: Soup search results

2718281828 wrote:Is this p4 (https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp ... 3032/b3s23) known?
... I did not find it in jslife, also no monomised version.

The interior is just that of one of the larger variants of Octagon 4 (stabilized with a tub). The external asymmetric stabilizers look familiar; I think I've seen them posted somewhere on these forums within the last couple of years, although I'm not sure exactly when or where.
mniemiec

Posts: 969
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 12:00 am

### Re: Soup search results

Failed monomerization of the Octagon 4 variant, attempting to use the t-nosed p4 for stabilization:
x = 11, y = 16, rule = B3/S234b2ob2o$5bo3bo$3bo4bo2$2bo5bo$bob5obo$bo7bo$2obo3bob2o$2bo5bo$2bob3obo$3bo3bo2$3bo3bo$3bo3bo2$4b3o!
'sup.

cvojan

Posts: 128
Joined: October 7th, 2018, 7:07 pm

### Re: Soup search results

I know it's late, but here you go; a monomerization:
x = 15, y = 16, rule = B3/S236b2ob2o$7bo3bo$5bo4bo2$4bo5bo$3bob5obo$3bo7bo$2obobo3bobob2o$2obo7bob2o$4bo5bo$5b5o2$4bo5bo$3b2o5b2o$3b2o5b2o\$3bo7bo!
'sup.

cvojan

Posts: 128
Joined: October 7th, 2018, 7:07 pm

### Re: Soup search results

Here's a huge soup (9 billion objects!) collected from running my computer overnight:

https://catagolue.appspot.com/haul/b3s2 ... 72164f9f71

There's few interesting things, but I didn't think about looking through all 1701 objects. Does catagolue have a "sort by rarity" function?
zdr wrote:Nice archive.
They will not win.

testitemqlstudop

Posts: 249
Joined: July 21st, 2016, 11:45 am

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