## 13131: The B-Heptomino/Glider Spaceship Thread

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

### 13131: The B-Heptomino/Glider Spaceship Thread

With (23,5)c/79 turning out to be a fluke, attention has now turned to the (13,1)c/31 spaceship, which was mentioned by Nivasch as an afterthought on the Caterpillar. I have thus created this thread for specialised discussion of the components and piecing them together. Sure, there's already an oblique spaceship, but here's the chance to find something smaller and faster.

The following parts are needed:
Forward and backward rakes - adjusters have already been found, so with these we would need...
A helix that burns at (13,1)c/31 and releases gliders, which would need to be routed to...
Spaceship constellations that can manipulate gliders to their desired locations, like the Caterpillar.

If we do finish this one, I'm going to call it 13131, a palindrome which describes the velocity. Good luck.

Freywa

Posts: 274
Joined: June 23rd, 2011, 3:20 am
Location: Singapore

### Re: 13131: The B-Heptomino/Glider Spaceship Thread

I'm going to bump this thread because I was looking at this again recently. I'm amused that the opening sentence of this thread declares (23,5)c/79 a fluke..

So the biggest barrier to making a reasonable ship out of this is the speed. The syntheses may be performed the same way as in the Waterbear, except since we necessarily need HWSS we still have to find a suitable collision there. See below for an LWSS synthesis and the extreme angle made between east *WSS and NE gliders.
`x = 1108, y = 849, rule = B3/S23o2bo\$4bo\$o3bo\$b4o205\$232bo2bo\$236bo\$232bo3bo\$233b4o205\$464bo2bo\$468bo\$464bo3bo\$465b4o37\$905bo\$904b3o12bo\$904bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$899b2o4b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$898bobo4b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$900bo10bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$911bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$911bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$912bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$926bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o\$940bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o\$954bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo\$968bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo\$982bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo\$996bobo10bo13bo3bo\$1010bobo10bo\$1024bobo12b3o\$1039bo2bo\$1039bo\$1039bo3bo\$1039bo3bo\$1039bo\$1021b3o16bobo\$1007b3o5bo5bo2bo4bo\$993b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo6b3o\$979b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo6bob2o\$965b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo4b3o\$951b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o13b2o\$937b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o\$923b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$917bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$916b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$915b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$915b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$915b3o11b3o12b2o\$905b3o7b3o12b2o\$904bo2bo8b2o\$907bo\$907bo\$904bobo\$921bo\$913bo6b3o12bo\$912b3o5bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$912bob2o5b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$913b3o5b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$913b2o12bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$927bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$927bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$928bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$942bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o\$511b3o442bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o\$513bo456bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo\$512bo402bo68bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo\$914b3o81bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo\$508bo404b2obo95bobo10bo13bo3bo\$508b2o403b3o110bobo10bo\$507bobo404b2o124bobo12b3o\$1055bo2bo\$1055bo\$1055bo3bo\$1055bo3bo\$1055bo\$1037b3o16bobo\$1023b3o5bo5bo2bo4bo\$1009b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo6b3o\$995b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo6bob2o\$981b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo4b3o\$967b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o13b2o\$953b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o\$939b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$933bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$932b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$931b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$931b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$931b3o11b3o12b2o\$921b3o7b3o12b2o\$920bo2bo8b2o\$923bo\$923bo\$920bobo\$937bo\$929bo6b3o12bo\$928b3o5bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$928bob2o5b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$929b3o5b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$929b2o12bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$943bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$943bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$944bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$958bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o\$972bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o\$986bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo\$931bo68bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo\$930b3o81bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo\$929b2obo95bobo10bo13bo3bo\$929b3o110bobo10bo\$930b2o124bobo12b3o\$1071bo2bo\$1071bo\$1071bo3bo\$1071bo3bo\$1071bo\$1053b3o16bobo\$1039b3o5bo5bo2bo4bo\$1025b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo6b3o\$1011b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo6bob2o\$997b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo4b3o\$983b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o13b2o\$969b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o\$955b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$949bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$948b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$947b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$947b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$947b3o11b3o12b2o\$937b3o7b3o12b2o\$936bo2bo8b2o\$939bo\$939bo\$936bobo\$953bo\$945bo6b3o12bo\$944b3o5bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$944bob2o5b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$945b3o5b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$945b2o12bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$959bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$959bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$960bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$974bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o\$988bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o\$1002bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo\$947bo68bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo\$946b3o81bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo\$619b3o323b2obo95bobo10bo13bo3bo\$621bo323b3o110bobo10bo\$620bo325b2o124bobo12b3o\$1087bo2bo\$616bo470bo\$616b2o469bo3bo\$615bobo469bo3bo\$1087bo\$1069b3o16bobo\$1055b3o5bo5bo2bo4bo\$1041b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo6b3o\$1027b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo6bob2o\$1013b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo4b3o\$999b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o13b2o\$985b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o\$971b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$965bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$964b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$963b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$963b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$963b3o11b3o12b2o\$953b3o7b3o12b2o\$952bo2bo8b2o\$955bo\$955bo\$952bobo\$969bo\$961bo6b3o12bo\$960b3o5bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$960bob2o5b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$961b3o5b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$961b2o12bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$975bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$975bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$696bo2bo276bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$700bo289bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o\$696bo3bo303bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o\$697b4o317bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo\$963bo68bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo\$962b3o81bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo\$961b2obo95bobo10bo13bo3bo\$961b3o110bobo10bo\$962b2o124bobo12b3o\$1103bo2bo\$1103bo\$1103bo3bo\$1103bo3bo\$1103bo\$1085b3o16bobo\$1071b3o5bo5bo2bo4bo\$1057b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo6b3o\$1043b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo6bob2o\$1029b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo4b3o\$1015b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o13b2o\$1001b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o\$987b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$981bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$980b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$979b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$979b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$979b3o11b3o12b2o\$969b3o7b3o12b2o\$968bo2bo8b2o\$971bo\$971bo\$968bobo2\$977bo\$976b3o\$976bob2o\$977b3o\$977b2o7\$979bo\$978b3o\$977b2obo\$977b3o\$978b2o2\$727b3o\$729bo\$728bo2\$724bo\$724b2o\$723bobo78\$835b3o\$837bo\$836bo2\$832bo\$832b2o\$831bobo48\$938bo\$937b3o\$937bob2o\$938b3o\$938b2o16\$928bo2bo\$932bo\$928bo3bo\$929b4o7\$943b3o\$945bo\$944bo2\$940bo\$940b2o\$939bobo!`

At x2 in the Waterbear, natural reactions were sufficient to match the p79 output to the p158 helix: all that was needed was a spark with lifetime longer than 79. Here, at x16, we would need to resort to similar tactics Gabriel used in the x6 Caterpillar, with an engineered filter. Since this isn't orthogonal, we would need our filter to be SW gliders, and we would need to keep things aligned properly. The filter would have to work with east *WSS and with gliders. However, as in the waterbear, we might be able to use leftover debris to do post-filtering, and only have one engineered reaction per reset.

Yes, I feel like the general oblique caterpillar requires resets, because the helix and the engine are at an angle and a tower-of-hanoi growth is not preferable. The reset in the waterbear was a fixed cost and didn't need any helix support, but that is because it just required feeding a p79 stream to the front. Here the base period is 31, and glider streams at p31 are notoriously difficult to pass through anything.

I guess, just as the first step in the waterbear was to play around with the track-collision technology, I'll see what this reaction has to offer. I think the explicit track duplicators are not the things to be looking for - what turned the Waterbear from a fluke into a real spaceship was finding the list of available debris from which to start slow constructions. However, for any of this we need to be able to shoot SE or NE gliders, which is still unsolved (it came for free in the Waterbear).
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.

biggiemac

Posts: 503
Joined: September 17th, 2014, 12:21 am
Location: California, USA

### Re: 13131: The B-Heptomino/Glider Spaceship Thread

Ivan Fomichev

codeholic
Moderator

Posts: 1140
Joined: September 13th, 2011, 8:23 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany

### Re: 13131: The B-Heptomino/Glider Spaceship Thread

Before I go further, a word on angles: in this post, you claimed the gliders come out the wrong side of the helix, but I feel you were backwards. I am envisioning this with the same relative locations of ship pieces as was in the Waterbear: helix on right, crawling reaction moving up 13 and right 1. Thus your first helix was correct, and most of the patterns posted showing the crawler are instead backwards.

To that effect, the gliders produced by the engine travel SE, which make them good for slow syntheses. The pieces we are working with thus look like below, where I am making the second block+boat start a slow construction. By phasing the tracks between creation of the block+boat we can get different lanes. We'd need to make as many block+boat constellations as we need pairs of gliders, but since a single block+boat can make arbitrarily many then we have universal construction pretty readily here.

`x = 581, y = 770, rule = B3/S23372bo\$371b3o12bo\$371bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$366b2o4b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$365bobo4b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$367bo10bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$378bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$378bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$379bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$393bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o\$407bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o\$421bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo\$435bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo\$449bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo\$463bobo10bo13bo3bo\$477bobo10bo\$491bobo12b3o\$506bo2bo\$506bo\$506bo3bo\$506bo3bo\$506bo\$488b3o16bobo\$474b3o5bo5bo2bo4bo\$19bo440b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo6b3o\$18bobo425b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo6bob2o\$18b2o412b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo4b3o\$418b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o13b2o\$404b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o\$390b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$384bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$383b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$11b2o369b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$11b2o369b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$382b3o11b3o12b2o\$372b3o7b3o12b2o\$371bo2bo8b2o\$18bo355bo\$17bobo354bo\$17b2o352bobo\$388bo\$380bo6b3o12bo\$379b3o5bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$379bob2o5b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$380b3o5b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$10b2o368b2o12bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$10b2o382bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$394bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$395bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$409bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o\$17bo405bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o\$16bobo418bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo\$16b2o364bo68bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo\$381b3o81bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo\$380b2obo95bobo10bo13bo3bo\$380b3o110bobo10bo\$381b2o124bobo12b3o\$522bo2bo\$9b2o511bo\$9b2o511bo3bo\$522bo3bo\$522bo\$504b3o16bobo\$16bo473b3o5bo5bo2bo4bo\$15bobo458b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo6b3o\$15b2o445b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo6bob2o\$448b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo4b3o\$434b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o13b2o\$420b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o\$406b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$400bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$8b2o389b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$8b2o388b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$398b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$398b3o11b3o12b2o\$388b3o7b3o12b2o\$15bo371bo2bo8b2o\$14bobo373bo\$14b2o374bo\$387bobo\$404bo\$396bo6b3o12bo\$395b3o5bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$395bob2o5b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$7b2o387b3o5b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$7b2o387b2o12bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$410bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$410bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$411bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$14bo410bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o\$13bobo423bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o\$13b2o438bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo\$398bo68bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo\$397b3o81bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo\$396b2obo95bobo10bo13bo3bo\$396b3o110bobo10bo\$397b2o124bobo12b3o\$6b2o530bo2bo\$6b2o530bo\$538bo3bo\$538bo3bo\$538bo\$13bo506b3o16bobo\$12bobo491b3o5bo5bo2bo4bo\$12b2o478b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo6b3o\$478b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo6bob2o\$464b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo4b3o\$450b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o13b2o\$436b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o\$422b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$5b2o409bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$5b2o408b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$414b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$414b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$414b3o11b3o12b2o\$12bo391b3o7b3o12b2o\$11bobo389bo2bo8b2o\$11b2o393bo\$406bo\$403bobo\$420bo\$412bo6b3o12bo\$411b3o5bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$4b2o405bob2o5b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$4b2o406b3o5b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$412b2o12bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$426bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$426bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$11bo415bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$10bobo428bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o\$10b2o443bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o\$469bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo\$414bo68bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo\$413b3o81bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo\$412b2obo95bobo10bo13bo3bo\$99bo2bo309b3o110bobo10bo\$3b2o98bo309b2o124bobo12b3o\$3b2o94bo3bo450bo2bo\$100b4o450bo\$554bo3bo\$554bo3bo\$10bo543bo\$9bobo524b3o16bobo\$9b2o511b3o5bo5bo2bo4bo\$508b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo6b3o\$494b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo6bob2o\$480b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo4b3o\$466b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o13b2o\$452b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o\$2b2o434b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$2b2o428bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$431b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$430b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$430b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$9bo420b3o11b3o12b2o\$8bobo409b3o7b3o12b2o\$8b2o409bo2bo8b2o\$422bo\$422bo\$419bobo\$436bo\$428bo6b3o12bo\$b2o424b3o5bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$b2o424bob2o5b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$428b3o5b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$428b2o12bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$442bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$8bo433bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$7bobo433bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o12bo\$7b2o2b3o443bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o4b3o\$10bo2bo457bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo3bob2o3b3o\$14bo470bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo7b3o3bo2bo\$10b2o418bo68bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo3b2o4bo\$10b2o3bo413b3o81bobo10bo13bo3bo9bo3bo\$15bo412b2obo95bobo10bo13bo3bo\$2o11bo414b3o110bobo10bo\$2o9b3o415b2o124bobo12b3o\$11b2o557bo2bo\$11bo558bo\$12b2o556bo3bo\$12bobo555bo3bo\$11bo3bo554bo\$12b2o538b3o16bobo\$538b3o5bo5bo2bo4bo\$4bo519b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo6b3o\$3b3o504b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo6bob2o\$2bo2b2o489b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo4b3o\$2b4o476b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o13b2o\$5bobo8bo451b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o\$5bo2bo5bobo437b3o5bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$5b3o7b2o431bo5bo2bo3b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$4bobo440b3o4bo5b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$4bobo439b2obo4bo5b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$4b3o439b3o6bobo2b3o11b3o12b2o\$446b3o11b3o12b2o\$436b3o7b3o12b2o\$435bo2bo8b2o\$438bo\$438bo\$435bobo2\$444bo\$443b3o\$443bob2o\$444b3o\$444b2o4\$21bobo\$22b2o\$22bo\$446bo\$11bo433b3o\$9bobo432b2obo\$10b2o432b3o\$445b2o13\$29bo\$30bo\$28b3o\$19b3o\$19bo2bo\$19bo2bo\$20bo2bo\$20b3o\$21b2o2\$18bo\$18bo\$17bo\$18bob2o\$22bo\$15bo4bo2\$16bobo\$16b3o2\$25b3o\$24bo2bo7bo\$24b2obo8b2o\$28b2o5b2o\$28b2o\$27bo2bo\$26bo\$26b3o\$27bo12\$32b3o\$32bo2bo\$31bo3bo7bo\$31b2o8bobo\$32bobo7b2o\$33b2o2bo\$33bo2bo\$33bo\$32b2ob2o\$33bobo\$34bo7\$38b3o\$37bo2bo\$37b2obo4\$37b2o9bobo\$37b4o8b2o\$38bo2bo7bo\$39bobo\$39bobo3\$41bo\$39bobo\$40b2o5\$45b3o\$45bo2bo\$44bo3bo\$44b4o\$45bo2\$56bo\$57bo\$55b3o\$45b2ob2o\$45bob3o4\$48bo\$49bo\$47b3o\$51b3o\$50bo2bo\$54bo\$50b2o\$50b2o3bo\$55bo\$53bo\$51b3o\$51b2o\$51bo\$52b2o8bo\$52bobo8b2o\$51bo3bo6b2o\$52b2o6\$56bo\$54bobo274bo2bo\$55b2o278bo\$331bo3bo\$332b4o8\$70bo\$68bobo\$69b2o2\$73b3o\$73bo2bo\$72bo3bo\$64b3o6bo2b2o\$64bo2bo7bo\$64bo2bo5b2o\$65bo2bo3b3o\$65b3o4b3o\$66b2o2\$74b2o\$73bob2o\$73bo3bo\$63b2o11bo\$63b2o3\$77bo\$70bo7bo\$69bobo4b3o\$69b2o6\$62b2o\$62b2o4\$69bo\$68bobo2bo10b3o\$68b7o8bo2bo\$72bob2o7b2obo\$71b2o14b2o273b3o\$71b2o14b2o275bo\$71b2o13bo2bo273bo\$75bo9bo\$61b2o11b2o9b3o271bo\$61b2o9bobo11bo272b2o\$71bo2bo283bobo\$72bobo\$72b3o\$72b2obo\$72bo2bo\$73bo2\$64b3o\$64bo2bo22b3o\$63bo3bo22bo2bo\$63b2o23bo4bo\$64bobo9bo\$65b2o2bo7b2o9bo\$65bo2bo7b2o11bo\$65bo24b2obo\$64b2ob2o22bo2bo\$65bobo23b2o\$66bo25bo2bo\$95bo\$91bo\$94bo\$91b3o4\$96b3o\$95bo2bo\$95bo3bo\$94b2obobo\$94b2ob2o\$95b3o2\$84bo\$82bobo\$83b2o\$96b2obo\$71bo24bobobo\$72b2o25bo\$71b2o3\$100b2o\$98bo4b2o\$99bo5bo\$104b2o2\$100bo2bo\$101b2o\$104b2o\$103b3o\$104bo\$101b2ob2o\$101b2ob2o\$89bobo9bo3bo\$81bo8b2o9bo3bo\$80b3o7bo11bo\$79b2o2bo\$80b5o\$80b2o2bo\$81bo2bo\$81bobo\$110bo\$109b3o\$78b2o29bob2o\$78b3o29bo2bo\$82bo28b2o\$80b2o29bo2\$108b2o\$77bobo27bo\$77bobo\$78bo8bo18bobo2bo\$86b3o17bob3obo\$85bo2b2o7bo7b3ob2obo\$85b4o9bo7bobo\$88bobo5b3o7b3o\$88bo2bo15bo6b3o\$88b3o23bo2bo\$87bobo23bo3bo352b3o\$87bobo23b2o357bo\$87b3o24bobo354bo\$115b2o2bo\$115bo2bo348bo\$115bo351b2o\$114b2ob2o347bobo\$115bobo\$116bo4\$120bo\$94bo24b3o\$93b3o22b2o2bo\$92b2o2bo21bo3bo\$92bo10bo14bob2o\$92b3o9b2o12b2o\$92b2obo7b2o\$93bob2o\$93b2o\$94bob2o\$93b2ob2o21b2o2bo\$93b2ob2o21bobobo\$95bo26bo4\$121bobo\$122b2o\$100bo21bo\$99b3o\$98bo2b2o\$98b3o4\$98bo12bo\$101bo7bobo\$98bo3bo7b2o\$99b2ob2o4\$101bo\$102b2o\$101b2o2\$129bo\$130bo\$107bo20b3o\$106b3o\$105b2o2bo\$105bo3bo\$105bob2o464bo\$105b2o465b3o\$572bob2o\$573b3o\$116bobo454b2o\$117b2o\$106b2o2bo6bo\$106bobobo\$109bo4\$108bobo\$109b3obo\$109b6o\$112bob2o19bo\$111b2o23b2o\$111b2o22b2o\$111b2o\$115bo\$114b2o447bo2bo\$112bobo452bo\$111bo2bo448bo3bo\$112bobo449b4o\$112b3o9bo\$112b2obo9bo\$112bo2bo7b3o\$113bo3\$578b3o\$580bo\$579bo\$116bo\$117b2o456bo\$116b2o457b2o\$143bo430bobo\$141bobo\$142b2o7\$130bo\$131b2o\$130b2o\$135bo\$134b3o\$133b2o2bo\$126bo6b2ob2o\$125b3o8b3o\$124b2o2bo5bob2o\$125b5o3bo2bo\$125b2o2bo6bo\$126bo2bo3bobo\$126bobo5bo13bobo\$149b2o\$135b3o11bo\$134bob2o\$135b2obo\$124b2o\$124b2o4\$131bo5bob2obo\$130bobo5b2ob3o\$130b2o6b4ob2o\$140b2o\$140b2o\$140b2o\$144bo\$143b2o\$123b2o16bobo\$123b2o15bo2bo\$141bobo12bo\$141b3o13bo\$141b2obo10b3o\$130bo10bo2bo\$129bobo10bo\$129b2o4\$148b3o\$148bo2bo\$122b2o28bo\$122b2o25b3o3\$147b2o\$129bo17b2o\$128bobo16bo\$128b2o16b2o\$144b2obob3o\$150b2o\$144bo2bo14bo\$145b3o15b2o\$162b2o\$121b2o\$121b2o31b3o\$154bo2bo\$154bo2bo2\$128bo28b2o\$127bobo26bo2bo\$127b2o27bo2bo\$156bo5\$120b2o\$120b2o3\$160b3o\$127bo31bo2bo7bo\$126bobo30bo2bo5bobo\$126b2o30bo2bo7b2o\$158bo2bo\$162b2o\$162b2o\$160bo3bo\$163b2o\$119b2o44bo\$119b2o39bo3bo\$161b3o3\$126bo\$125bobo\$125b2o2b3o34b3o\$128bo2bo34bo2bo\$132bo32bo3bo\$128b2o35b4o\$128b2o3bo32bo\$133bo\$131bo43bobo\$129b3o44b2o\$129b2o45bo\$129bo36b2ob2o\$130b2o34bob3o\$130bobo\$129bo3bo\$130b2o\$169bo\$170bo\$168b3o12bo\$172b3o7b3o\$171bo2bo6bo2b2o\$134bo40bo4b5o\$132bobo36b2o7b5o\$133b2o36b2o3bo6bo\$176bo6bobo\$174bo8b2obo\$172b3o9bobo\$172b2o11b3o\$172bo12bobo\$183b4o\$183b3o\$184bo\$179bo\$178bobo\$178b2o6\$171b2o\$171b2o\$139bobo\$140b2o\$140bo\$178bo\$177bobo\$177b2o3\$191bo\$189bobo\$190b2o\$170b2o\$170b2o4\$177bo\$176bobo\$176b2o2\$147bo\$148bo\$146b3o2\$169b2o\$169b2o4\$176bo19bobo\$175bobo19b2o\$175b2o20bo6\$168b2o\$168b2o3\$153bo\$154b2o19bo\$153b2o19bobo\$174b2o5\$204bo\$167b2o36bo\$167b2o34b3o4\$174bo\$173bobo\$173b2o5\$161bo\$159bobo4b2o\$160b2o4b2o!`

As was previously the case, I think it's preferable to make something hideously dirty but natural instead of trying to synthesize filters. A filter stream of 15 gliders and a hole moving at a relative angle to the ship would be difficult to work with (not reusable for very long).

As a proof of concept for the dirty option, here's a x11 natural multiplier (very dirty, 2 gliders output every 11 cycles). If I find anything over x16 I think it would warrant making a helix at that period.
`x = 329, y = 829, rule = B3/S23o\$b2o\$2o19\$8bo\$6bobo\$7b2o19\$13bobo\$14b2o\$14bo18\$21bo\$22bo\$20b3o19\$27bo\$28b2o\$27b2o19\$35bo\$33bobo\$34b2o19\$40bobo\$41b2o\$41bo18\$48bo\$49bo\$47b3o19\$54bo\$55b2o\$54b2o19\$62bo\$60bobo\$61b2o19\$67bobo\$68b2o\$68bo18\$75bo\$76bo\$74b3o19\$81bo\$82b2o\$81b2o19\$89bo\$87bobo\$88b2o19\$94bobo\$95b2o\$95bo18\$102bo\$103bo\$101b3o4\$322bo\$321bobo\$321b2o3b2o\$325bo2bo\$326b2o9\$321bo\$320bobo\$108bo211b2o3b2o\$109b2o213bo2bo\$108b2o215b2o9\$320bo\$319bobo\$319b2o3b2o\$323bo2bo\$324b2o6\$116bo\$114bobo\$115b2o\$319bo\$318bobo\$318b2o3b2o\$322bo2bo\$206bo9bo106b2o2\$206bo9bo\$206bo9bo2\$206bo9bo\$206bo9bo2\$206bo9bo\$206bo9bo101bo\$192bo6bo117bobo\$193bo4bo7bo9bo100b2o3b2o\$194bo2bo8bo9bo104bo2bo\$322b2o\$121bobo71bo10bo9bo\$122b2o70bo2bo8bo9bo\$122bo70bo4bo\$192bo6bo6bo9bo5\$317bo\$316bobo\$316b2o3b2o\$320bo2bo\$321b2o8\$129bo\$130bo185bo\$128b3o184bobo\$315b2o3b2o\$319bo2bo\$320b2o9\$315bo\$314bobo\$314b2o3b2o\$318bo2bo\$319b2o3\$135bo\$136b2o\$135b2o4\$314bo\$313bobo\$313b2o3b2o\$317bo2bo\$318b2o9\$313bo\$312bobo\$143bo168b2o3b2o\$141bobo172bo2bo\$142b2o173b2o9\$312bo\$311bobo\$311b2o3b2o\$315bo2bo\$316b2o6\$148bobo\$149b2o\$149bo\$311bo\$310bobo\$310b2o3b2o\$314bo2bo\$315b2o9\$310bo\$309bobo\$309b2o3b2o\$313bo2bo\$156bo157b2o\$157bo\$155b3o7\$309bo\$308bobo\$308b2o3b2o\$312bo2bo\$313b2o8\$162bo\$163b2o143bo\$162b2o143bobo\$307b2o3b2o\$311bo2bo\$312b2o9\$307bo\$306bobo\$306b2o3b2o\$310bo2bo\$311b2o3\$170bo\$168bobo\$169b2o4\$306bo\$305bobo\$305b2o3b2o\$309bo2bo\$310b2o9\$305bo\$304bobo\$175bobo126b2o3b2o\$176b2o130bo2bo\$176bo132b2o9\$304bo\$303bobo\$303b2o3b2o\$307bo2bo\$308b2o5\$183bo\$184bo\$182b3o2\$303bo\$302bobo\$302b2o3b2o\$306bo2bo\$307b2o9\$302bo\$301bobo\$301b2o3b2o\$305bo2bo\$189bo116b2o\$190b2o\$189b2o7\$301bo\$300bobo\$300b2o3b2o\$304bo2bo\$305b2o8\$197bo\$195bobo102bo\$196b2o101bobo\$299b2o3b2o\$303bo2bo\$304b2o9\$299bo\$298bobo\$298b2o3b2o\$302bo2bo\$303b2o3\$202bobo\$203b2o\$203bo4\$298bo\$297bobo\$297b2o3b2o\$301bo2bo\$302b2o9\$297bo\$210bo85bobo\$211bo84b2o3b2o\$209b3o88bo2bo\$301b2o9\$296bo\$295bobo\$295b2o3b2o\$299bo2bo\$300b2o5\$216bo\$217b2o\$216b2o2\$295bo\$294bobo\$294b2o3b2o\$298bo2bo\$299b2o9\$294bo\$293bobo\$293b2o3b2o\$297bo2bo\$224bo73b2o\$222bobo\$223b2o7\$293bo\$292bobo\$292b2o3b2o\$296bo2bo\$297b2o8\$229bobo\$230b2o60bo\$230bo60bobo\$291b2o3b2o\$295bo2bo\$296b2o9\$291bo\$290bobo\$290b2o3b2o\$294bo2bo\$295b2o2\$237bo\$238bo\$236b3o5\$290bo\$289bobo\$289b2o3b2o\$293bo2bo\$294b2o9\$289bo\$243bo44bobo\$244b2o42b2o3b2o\$243b2o47bo2bo\$293b2o9\$288bo\$287bobo\$287b2o3b2o\$291bo2bo\$292b2o5\$251bo\$249bobo\$250b2o2\$287bo\$286bobo\$286b2o3b2o\$290bo2bo\$291b2o9\$286bo\$285bobo\$285b2o3b2o\$289bo2bo\$256bobo31b2o\$257b2o\$257bo7\$285bo\$284bobo\$284b2o3b2o\$288bo2bo\$289b2o7\$264bo\$265bo\$263b3o18bo\$283bobo\$283b2o3b2o\$287bo2bo\$288b2o9\$283bo\$282bobo\$282b2o3b2o\$286bo2bo\$287b2o!`
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.

biggiemac

Posts: 503
Joined: September 17th, 2014, 12:21 am
Location: California, USA

### Re: 13131: The B-Heptomino/Glider Spaceship Thread

biggiemac wrote:Before I go further, a word on angles: in this post, you claimed the gliders come out the wrong side of the helix, but I feel you were backwards.

I think it's easier to show, than to explain. The first helix:
`x = 514, y = 888, rule = B3/S23482b2o\$470bobo10b2o\$470bobo9bo13bo\$470bobo22b3o\$494b2obo\$494b3o\$494b3o\$494b3o\$478bo16b2o\$464bo12b3o\$450bo12b3o4b3o3b2obo4b3o\$436bo12b3o4b3o3b2obo3bo2bo3b3o5bo2bo\$422bo12b3o4b3o3b2obo3bo2bo3b3o7bo4b2o5bo\$408bo12b3o4b3o3b2obo3bo2bo3b3o7bo4b2o3bo3bo11bo\$394bo12b3o4b3o3b2obo3bo2bo3b3o7bo4b2o3bo3bo9bo3bo12bobo\$380bo12b3o4b3o3b2obo3bo2bo3b3o7bo4b2o3bo3bo9bo3bo13bo\$379b3o4b3o3b2obo3bo2bo3b3o7bo4b2o3bo3bo9bo3bo13bo10bobo\$372b3o3b2obo3bo2bo3b3o7bo4b2o3bo3bo9bo3bo13bo10bobo\$371bo2bo3b3o7bo4b2o3bo3bo9bo3bo13bo10bobo\$374bo4b2o3bo3bo9bo3bo13bo10bobo\$370bo3bo9bo3bo13bo10bobo\$362bo7bo3bo13bo10bobo\$361b3o10bo10bobo\$361bob2o6bobo\$362b3o\$362b2o2\$376b3o\$368b3o5bo2bo4bo5b3o\$368bo2bo4bo6b3o4bo2bo4bo5b3o\$368bo7bo5b2obo4bo6b3o4bo2bo4bo5b3o\$368bo8bobo2b3o5bo5b2obo4bo6b3o4bo2bo4bo5b3o\$369bobo10b3o6bobo2b3o5bo5b2obo4bo6b3o4bo2bo4bo5b3o\$382b3o11b3o6bobo2b3o5bo5b2obo4bo6b3o4bo2bo4bo5b3o\$383b2o11b3o11b3o6bobo2b3o5bo5b2obo4bo6b3o4bo2bo4bo5b3o\$397b2o11b3o11b3o6bobo2b3o5bo5b2obo4bo6b3o4bo2bo4bo5b3o\$411b2o11b3o11b3o6bobo2b3o5bo5b2obo4bo6b3o4bo2bo4bo\$425b2o11b3o11b3o6bobo2b3o5bo5b2obo4bo6b3o\$439b2o11b3o11b3o6bobo2b3o5bo5b2obo\$370b3o80b2o11b3o11b3o6bobo2b3o\$369bo2bo94b2o11b3o11b3o\$372bo108b2o11b3o\$372bo122b2o15bo\$369bobo139b3o\$510b2obo\$510b3o\$510b3o\$510b3o\$494bo16b2o\$480bo12b3o\$466bo12b3o4b3o3b2obo4b3o\$452bo12b3o4b3o3b2obo3bo2bo3b3o5bo2bo\$438bo12b3o4b3o3b2obo3bo2bo3b3o7bo4b2o5bo\$424bo12b3o4b3o3b2obo3bo2bo3b3o7bo4b2o3bo3bo11bo\$410bo12b3o4b3o3b2obo3bo2bo3b3o7bo4b2o3bo3bo9bo3bo12bobo\$396bo12b3o4b3o3b2obo3bo2bo3b3o7bo4b2o3bo3bo9bo3bo13bo\$395b3o4b3o3b2obo3bo2bo3b3o7bo4b2o3bo3bo9bo3bo13bo10bobo\$388b3o3b2obo3bo2bo3b3o7bo4b2o3bo3bo9bo3bo13bo10bobo\$387bo2bo3b3o7bo4b2o3bo3bo9bo3bo13bo10bobo\$390bo4b2o3bo3bo9bo3bo13bo10bobo\$386bo3bo9bo3bo13bo10bobo\$378bo7bo3bo13bo10bobo\$377b3o10bo10bobo\$377bob2o6bobo\$378b3o\$378b2o3\$384b3o\$384bo2bo\$384bo\$384bo\$385bobo7\$386b3o\$385bo2bo\$388bo\$388bo\$385bobo75\$301bo\$301bobo\$301b2o309\$137bo\$135b2o\$136b2o19\$129bo31bo\$129bobo29bobo\$129b2o30b2o19\$122bobo\$122b2o\$123bo18\$116bo\$115bo\$115b3o19\$110bo\$108b2o\$109b2o19\$102bo\$102bobo\$102b2o19\$95bobo\$95b2o\$96bo18\$89bo\$88bo\$88b3o19\$83bo\$81b2o\$82b2o19\$75bo\$75bobo\$75b2o19\$68bobo\$68b2o\$69bo18\$62bo\$61bo\$61b3o19\$56bo\$54b2o\$55b2o19\$48bo\$48bobo\$48b2o19\$41bobo\$41b2o\$42bo18\$35bo\$34bo\$34b3o19\$29bo\$27b2o\$28b2o19\$21bo\$21bobo\$21b2o19\$14bobo\$14b2o\$15bo18\$8bo\$7bo\$7b3o\$3b3o\$3bo2bo\$2bo\$5b2o\$bo3b2o\$bo\$3bo\$3b3o\$4b2o\$5bo\$3b2o\$2bobo\$bo3bo\$3b2o6\$o\$obo\$2o!`

The second helix:
`x = 369, y = 190, rule = B3/S23365bo\$367bo\$364bo\$357bo9b2o\$343bo12b3o5b2o\$329bo12b3o4b3o4bob2o4bobo\$315bo12b3o4b3o4bob2o3bo2bo4b3o4b3o\$301bo12b3o4b3o4bob2o3bo2bo4b3o3bo7b2o8b2o\$287bo12b3o4b3o4bob2o3bo2bo4b3o3bo7b2o4bo3bo11bob2o\$273bo12b3o4b3o4bob2o3bo2bo4b3o3bo7b2o4bo3bo9bo3bo11bo2bo\$259bo12b3o4b3o4bob2o3bo2bo4b3o3bo7b2o4bo3bo9bo3bo9bo15bobo\$245bo12b3o4b3o4bob2o3bo2bo4b3o3bo7b2o4bo3bo9bo3bo9bo14bobo\$244b3o4b3o4bob2o3bo2bo4b3o3bo7b2o4bo3bo9bo3bo9bo14bobo\$237b3o4bob2o3bo2bo4b3o3bo7b2o4bo3bo9bo3bo9bo14bobo\$226b3o8bo2bo4b3o3bo7b2o4bo3bo9bo3bo9bo14bobo\$225bo2bo8bo7b2o4bo3bo9bo3bo9bo14bobo\$228bo8bo3bo9bo3bo9bo14bobo\$224bo3bo8bo3bo9bo14bobo\$224bo3bo8bo14bobo\$228bo9bobo\$225bobo3\$241bo\$240b3o12bo\$233bo5b2obo4b3o4b3o12bo\$232b3o4b3o4bo2bo3b2obo4b3o4b3o12bo\$232bob2o4b2o7bo3b3o4bo2bo3b2obo4b3o4b3o12bo\$224bo8b3o9bo3bo4b2o7bo3b3o4bo2bo3b2obo4b3o4b3o12bo\$223b3o7b3o9bo3bo9bo3bo4b2o7bo3b3o4bo2bo3b2obo4b3o4b3o12bo\$222b2obo7b3o13bo9bo3bo9bo3bo4b2o7bo3b3o4bo2bo3b2obo4b3o4b3o12bo\$222b3o8b2o11bobo14bo9bo3bo9bo3bo4b2o7bo3b3o4bo2bo3b2obo4b3o4b3o\$223b2o35bobo14bo9bo3bo9bo3bo4b2o7bo3b3o4bo2bo3b2obo4b3o\$274bobo14bo9bo3bo9bo3bo4b2o7bo3b3o4bo2bo\$288bobo14bo9bo3bo9bo3bo4b2o7bo\$302bobo14bo9bo3bo9bo3bo\$227b3o86bobo14bo9bo3bo\$227bo2bo99bobo14bo4b3o\$227bo116bobo4bo2bo\$227bo126bo\$228bobo123bo\$351bobo2\$341bo\$181b2o144bo12b3o\$181bobo129bo12b3o4b3o4bob2o\$181bo117bo12b3o4b3o4bob2o3bo2bo4b3o6b3o\$285bo12b3o4b3o4bob2o3bo2bo4b3o3bo7b2o6bo2bo\$271bo12b3o4b3o4bob2o3bo2bo4b3o3bo7b2o4bo3bo14bo\$175bo81bo12b3o4b3o4bob2o3bo2bo4b3o3bo7b2o4bo3bo9bo3bo14bo\$174b2o67bo12b3o4b3o4bob2o3bo2bo4b3o3bo7b2o4bo3bo9bo3bo9bo15bobo\$174bobo52bo12b3o4b3o4bob2o3bo2bo4b3o3bo7b2o4bo3bo9bo3bo9bo14bobo\$228b3o4b3o4bob2o3bo2bo4b3o3bo7b2o4bo3bo9bo3bo9bo14bobo\$221b3o4bob2o3bo2bo4b3o3bo7b2o4bo3bo9bo3bo9bo14bobo\$210b3o8bo2bo4b3o3bo7b2o4bo3bo9bo3bo9bo14bobo\$167b3o39bo2bo8bo7b2o4bo3bo9bo3bo9bo14bobo\$167bo44bo8bo3bo9bo3bo9bo14bobo\$168bo39bo3bo8bo3bo9bo14bobo\$208bo3bo8bo14bobo\$212bo9bobo\$161b2o46bobo\$160b2o\$162bo3\$154b2o61bo\$154bobo59b3o\$154bo61bob2o\$208bo8b3o\$207b3o7b3o\$148bo57b2obo7b3o\$147b2o57b3o8b2o\$147bobo57b2o4\$140b3o68b3o\$140bo70bo2bo\$141bo69bo\$211bo\$212bobo\$134b2o\$133b2o\$135bo3\$127b2o\$127bobo\$127bo3\$121bo\$120b2o\$120bobo4\$113b3o\$113bo\$114bo3\$107b2o\$106b2o\$108bo3\$100b2o\$100bobo\$100bo3\$94bo\$93b2o\$93bobo4\$86b3o\$86bo\$87bo3\$80b2o\$79b2o\$81bo3\$73b2o\$73bobo\$73bo3\$67bo\$66b2o\$66bobo4\$59b3o\$59bo\$60bo3\$53b2o\$52b2o\$54bo3\$46b2o\$46bobo\$46bo3\$40bo\$39b2o\$39bobo4\$32b3o\$32bo\$33bo3\$26b2o\$25b2o\$27bo3\$19b2o\$19bobo\$19bo3\$13bo\$12b2o\$12bobo5\$3b3o\$2bo2bo\$2bo2bo2\$b2o\$o2bo\$o2bo\$3bo!`

I tricked myself, because unlike (23,5)c/79 reaction, Herschel moves in the lateral direction opposite to where gliders come from.
I am envisioning this with the same relative locations of ship pieces as was in the Waterbear: helix on right, crawling reaction moving up 13 and right 1.

No, it's going to be "helix on right, crawling reaction moving up 13 and LEFT 1".
Ivan Fomichev

codeholic
Moderator

Posts: 1140
Joined: September 13th, 2011, 8:23 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany

### Re: 13131: The B-Heptomino/Glider Spaceship Thread

I kind of rocketed through the waterbear construction, communicating only through terminology I invented on the fly. I'll try to do anything with this ship in such a way that other people follow along and can help out. To that end, here's an informative picture of the design I have in mind.

Note that since the gliders make by the engine are SE, they are always in front of the still lives. And since they are p31, there is no chance of anything passing through them. Thus we have to drop all the construction apparatus as frozen constellations in reverse order, then terminate the tracks, then do syntheses. But it should work.

The real difficulty is making seeds that include a x16 multiplier.

Edit: wasn't able to resize the image, but at least now you can click it to go to imgur where it is possible to see all of it.
Last edited by biggiemac on March 9th, 2016, 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.

biggiemac

Posts: 503
Joined: September 17th, 2014, 12:21 am
Location: California, USA

### Re: 13131: The B-Heptomino/Glider Spaceship Thread

codeholic wrote:
biggiemac wrote:Before I go further, a word on angles: in this post, you claimed the gliders come out the wrong side of the helix, but I feel you were backwards.

I think it's easier to show, than to explain. The first helix:
`RLE`

The second helix:
`RLE`

I tricked myself, because unlike (23,5)c/79 reaction, Herschel moves in the lateral direction opposite to where gliders come from.
I am envisioning this with the same relative locations of ship pieces as was in the Waterbear: helix on right, crawling reaction moving up 13 and right 1.

No, it's going to be "helix on right, crawling reaction moving up 13 and LEFT 1".

Again I disagree.. we are getting the SE glider of the H, and not the SW (and we are resetting the H using a SE glider instead of an SW), so you've been tricked twice and only caught one of them.

The second helix with up 13 left 1 motion is not going to be synthesizeable because everything will crash into it. The helix which moves up and to the right gives angles that are not impossible. And if we have the helix drop stills (not gliders), the H (facing the other way) can climb them. As I said above, most of the patterns posted showing the crawler are instead backwards.

To put it clearly: The first helix you posted releases SW gliders, which are not useful as the H climbs SE gliders.
The second helix you posted has the entire reaction on the wrong side. The first helix can be made useful by dropping stills instead of SW gliders.
Last edited by biggiemac on March 9th, 2016, 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.

biggiemac

Posts: 503
Joined: September 17th, 2014, 12:21 am
Location: California, USA

### Re: 13131: The B-Heptomino/Glider Spaceship Thread

biggiemac wrote:To put it clearly: The first helix you posted releases SW gliders, which are not useful as the H climbs SE gliders.

That's right.
biggiemac wrote:The second helix you posted has the entire reaction on the wrong side.

I still not understand, why it is a "wrong side", but okay.
biggiemac wrote:The first helix can be made useful by dropping stills instead of SW gliders.

Probably, if you manage to drop them far enough to avoid the spaceship stream.
Ivan Fomichev

codeholic
Moderator

Posts: 1140
Joined: September 13th, 2011, 8:23 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany

### Re: 13131: The B-Heptomino/Glider Spaceship Thread

codeholic wrote:
biggiemac wrote:The first helix can be made useful by dropping stills instead of SW gliders.

Probably, if you manage to drop them far enough to avoid the spaceship stream.

That is a valid concern.. I think releasing SW gliders into fanouts, and having the fanouts leave the appropriate stills is necessary - so we need edge-shooting fanout reactions. The relative angles work well that way though, repeating (SW glider + N *WSS -> SW glider + still) leaves everything appropriately positioned for a up-and-right moving (13,1)c/31 reference frame.

Edit: no, stills do crash into following streams. We need to get clever for a front end. (SW g + N *WSS -> SW g + NW g) would be okay except the properly oriented H doesn't burn NW g, only NE g.
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.

biggiemac

Posts: 503
Joined: September 17th, 2014, 12:21 am
Location: California, USA

### Re: 13131: The B-Heptomino/Glider Spaceship Thread

codeholic wrote:There are 3 ways of building (13,1)c/31 glider-based track:
`RLE`

That's pretty cool, because the 1st one moves the track horizontally by 1 cell, while delaying the track period by 1, the 2nd advances the track period by 3 and the 3rd one by 2, while keeping the track position intact. This set is complete in the sense, that if there are two distant enough glider tracks, you can bring them to any relative position and period!

Sorry to keep digging up flaws in your reasoning but I did some math and I think that the set of SE g -> SE g rephasings isn't actually complete (I only considered the three in the quoted post and not the NE g -> SE g reaction because I doubt it will find use). My reasoning is as follows:
EDIT: YOU WERE RIGHT AND I WAS WRONG. Specifically, my formalism lacked the constraint that real gliders must have x=y mod 4.

Abstractify the glider into an object that moves (1,1) in each generation, where cells are a quarter the size of the CGOL grid. This gets rid of phases, which just complicate the math anyway.

We take positive to be in the glider's direction of motion, and coordinate pairs are (x,y). In this metric, the three rephasings above are (3,-1), (3,3) and (2,2).

We want to show that two streams can be brought to any relative displacement. Choose a glider in the first stream: we care about its position relative to the second stream, so there's some modular arithmetic. In our new metric the ship moves 4*(+1,-13) in the time it takes a glider to move 31*(+1,+1), the distance between gliders in a stream is the difference, (27,83).

Now it's just 2D modular arithmetic. Unfortunately, since the three generators and mod vector are all "color-preserving" where "color" here is x+y mod 2 (new-metric analog of color on the CGOL grid) , we cannot reach a relative offset that has a different "color".

Now, everything in the block+boat copier gets lucky. Burning the block and boat creates streams at relative offset (73+a,65+a), where a is the number of generations waited to burn the block after the earliest possible opportunity. The rubbing reaction that drops block+boat can occur if the streams have relative offset (56,48), the same color.

The maker of the linked copier chose to make a=1 so that all that is needed is 6*(3,3) on the back stream. Note that a=0 and 6*(3,3)+1*(2,2) works as well (verify this by moving the B eating the topmost block forward one generation). Also note that since it is the back of the crawlers that interact to make the constellation, the pattern actually features 7*(3,3) on the back stream and 1*(3,3) on the front stream.

Ivan also got lucky extending the copier to a doubler, because the boats burn to give a stream at (38+b,10+b) relative to the remaining glider stream (again b is set by the generation delay from earliest possible opportunity). This is once again the correct color.

If I am to categorize the whole possible interaction space there will be two color classes, and tracks cannot be rephased simply from one to the other. This also cuts in half the number of lane+phase combinations usable for any eventual slow salvo construction with p2n targets. There will probably be reasonable workarounds though.

Post edit: so since x=y mod 4, all possible glider values are reachable, and the set is complete after all. However much this notation tripped me up at first, I think it is the notation I will be sticking with because it does avoid phase confusion and can be interpreted easily from the position of the gliders. So if in the future I reference weird distances between gliders, this is how I mean it.
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.

biggiemac

Posts: 503
Joined: September 17th, 2014, 12:21 am
Location: California, USA

### Re: 13131: The B-Heptomino/Glider Spaceship Thread

I'm taking it this ship has also been abandoned?
waiting for apgsearch to support one-dimensional rules
muzik

Posts: 2778
Joined: January 28th, 2016, 2:47 pm
Location: Scotland

### Re: 13131: The B-Heptomino/Glider Spaceship Thread

Yyyup, looks pretty dead to me.

For one, I'm taking from the 27,1c/72 thread this is going to be bigger than the Caterpillar (and subsequently take the trophy for being the largest interesting pattern in Conway's Life, which is quite an achievement), assuming we can de-spanner the workings and move on.

And guessing from the triangle-shaped illustration above it too will look like the waterbear.

I'll probably not be of much help here, but still, how this ship will (hopefully) be put together is a pretty interesting looking task to me. Seeing how exotic the climber is and all...
waiting for apgsearch to support one-dimensional rules
muzik

Posts: 2778
Joined: January 28th, 2016, 2:47 pm
Location: Scotland

### Re: 13131: The B-Heptomino/Glider Spaceship Thread

Freywa wrote:With (23,5)c/79 turning out to be a fluke

Haven't you heard of waterbear?

wwei23

Posts: 833
Joined: May 22nd, 2017, 6:14 pm
Location: The (Life?) Universe

### Re: 13131: The B-Heptomino/Glider Spaceship Thread

wwei23 wrote:
Freywa wrote:With (23,5)c/79 turning out to be a fluke

Haven't you heard of waterbear?

Haven't you heard of checking post dates and pattern discovery dates?
waiting for apgsearch to support one-dimensional rules
muzik

Posts: 2778
Joined: January 28th, 2016, 2:47 pm
Location: Scotland

### Re: 13131: The B-Heptomino/Glider Spaceship Thread

wwei23 wrote:
Freywa wrote:With (23,5)c/79 turning out to be a fluke

Haven't you heard of waterbear?

That was in 2013. Back in the days we didn't have stuff like LTL and non-totalistic rules.
Proud owner and founder of Sakagolue
`x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23b2ob2obo5b2o\$11b4obo\$2bob3o2bo2b3o\$bo3b2o4b2o\$o2bo2bob2o3b4o\$bob2obo5bo2b2o\$2b2o4bobo2b3o\$bo3b5ob2obobo\$2bo5bob2o\$4bob2o2bobobo!`

(Check gen 2)

Saka

Posts: 2539
Joined: June 19th, 2015, 8:50 pm
Location: In the kingdom of Sultan Hamengkubuwono X

### Re: 13131: The B-Heptomino/Glider Spaceship Thread

Saka wrote:
wwei23 wrote:
Freywa wrote:With (23,5)c/79 turning out to be a fluke

Haven't you heard of waterbear?

That was in 2013. Back in the days we didn't have stuff like LTL and non-totalistic rules.

LTL?

wwei23

Posts: 833
Joined: May 22nd, 2017, 6:14 pm
Location: The (Life?) Universe

### Re: 13131: The B-Heptomino/Glider Spaceship Thread

wwei23 wrote:
Saka wrote:
wwei23 wrote:Haven't you heard of waterbear?

That was in 2013. Back in the days we didn't have stuff like LTL and non-totalistic rules.

LTL?

Larger than Life.