It´s not a Gosper Glider Gun !

[Herik Zorneck]

hello to all,

It's not the Gosper glider gun!

double barreled gun (p30)

I come humbly submit my discovery ...
Please before say that this is only more one of my "simple" versions of Gosper Glider Gun, take a good look at all cycles to see the difference of my model.
I left the gun in picture out of phase to make clear the difference, but in fact the cycle begins five generations before.

thanks
Herik

[codeholic]

It would be much more convenient for others to analyze your discoveries if you posted their RLE. Just copy the pattern in Golly and post whatever there is in the buffer.

But at the first glance it is a Gosper glider gun.

[Herik Zorneck]

Thanks for the tip!

Please tell me a definition of what is a Gosper Glider Gun?
Because I believe that although my model is like a GGG, he has different figures in some phases, then - in my opinion - is not a GGG. (At least not in the traditional sense).
Please make an analysis of my gun cycle by cycle, comparing it with a ( dual ) traditional Gosper gun.

thanks,
Herik

Code: Select all

x = 80, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
4$62b2o$61bo3bo$46bo13bo5bo$33bo10bobo13bo3bob2o2b2o$33bobo6b2o16bo5bo
3b2o$16b2o18b2o4b2o17bo3bo$14bo3bo17b2o4b2o18b2o$8b2o3bo5bo16b2o6bobo$
8b2o2b2obo3bo13bobo10bo$13bo5bo13bo$14bo3bo$16b2o!

[codeholic]

I'd say, that anything, that just produces gliders using solely the following reaction, is a Gosper glider gun.

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
obo$o3bo$4bo10b2o$o4bo7bo2bo$4bo7bo$o3bo7bo$obo9bo$13bo2bo$15b2o!


Stabilization doesn't matter.

[Herik Zorneck]

okay

I understand now what you meant ...
thank you very much for your comments!

[Herik Zorneck]

Dear Codeholic,

Thanks for your comments, I learned a few things through your answers and realized how wrong I was in the other posts but ...
I do not agree with your last sentence :

Stabilization doesn't matter.

sometimes matter !



in the figure at the center of the first gun, you could tell me if someone has already used it to stabilize two Gosper glider guns before?

Thank you again
Herik

Code: Select all

x = 70, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
53b2o$53b2o4b3o$36b2o12b2o6b5o$26b2o6bo3bo10b3o5bo3bobo$25bo3bo3bo5bo
10b2o6bo3b2o$9b2o13bo5b4obo3bo13b2o$9b2o13bo3bob4o5bo13b2o$2o3bo6b2o
10bo5bo3bo3bo$obo3bo5b3o10bo3bo6b2o$b5o6b2o12b2o$2b3o4b2o$9b2o10$59b2o
$59b2o$25b2o15b2o12b2o6bo3b2o$25b2o4b3o6bo3bo10b3o5bo3bobo$8b2o12b2o6b
5o4bo5bo10b2o6b5o$6bo3bo10b3o5bo3bobo2b2obo3bo13b2o4b3o$2o3bo5bo10b2o
6bo3b2o3bo5bo13b2o$2o2b2obo3bo13b2o13bo3bo$5bo5bo13b2o15b2o$6bo3bo$8b
2o!

[Herik Zorneck]

hello again everyone ...

I modified the design of my gospel gun again ...
Sorry if I seem to insist on silly things, I am a novice in life and opinion of all of you is importamnte to I try improve my work.

Dual barreled Gosper Glider Gun - definitive version ( i hope )

Code: Select all

x = 64, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
53bo$53bobo$36b2o18b2o4b2o$26b2o6bo3bo17b2o4b2o$25bo3bo3bo5bo16b2o$10b
o13bo5b4obo3bo13bobo$8bobo13bo3bob4o5bo13bo$6b2o16bo5bo3bo3bo$2o4b2o
17bo3bo6b2o$2o4b2o18b2o$8bobo$10bo!


[mniemiec]

Sorry if I seem to insist on silly things, I am a novice in life and opinion of all of you is importamnte to I try improve my work.

Don't worry. Even the most seasoned Lifenthusiasts were novices once, and knowing which areas are new ground, as compared to well-trodden paths, is something that usually comes with experience.

When considering Life patterns, there are usually two different things to consider: form, and function. When looking at things that have little or no function (e.g. still-lifes), form is everything. For things like glider guns, on the other hand, function (e.g. what gliders are emitted and where) is usually more important than form (e.g. just how the shuttles are stabilized). In cases where there are multiple mechanisms involved, these are considered separately.

In the case of your gun, there are basically three mechanisms involved: 1) the glider-producing interaction of two queen bee shuttles (found by Gosper 40+ years ago), 2) the block eating the beehive (also from the same time period), and 3) the two shuttles colliding to avoid dropping beehives.

The glider-producing mechanism is unique for queen bees, as far as I know. I know of two others that produce gliders, one of which almost escapes, and one which doesn't even come close.

Code: Select all

#C P30 almost-gun, and P30 suicidal gun
x = 87, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
11b2o45bo$10bobo10b2o32bobo$9b3o11b2o31bob2o18bo$2o6b3o15b2o6b2o14b2o
3b2ob2o17bobo$2o7b3o14b3o5b2o14b2o4bob2o16bo3b2o3b2o$10bobo13b2o29bobo
16bo3b2o3b2o$11b2o10b2o33bo17bo3b2o$23b2o52bobo$78bo!


There are several known ways to eat the end beehives. A block is the smallest, cheapest, and most common way to do so. (The block can be on either side of the axis of symmetry, but for all practical purposes, this usually isn't considered important). An eater or similar still-life is another common way.

There are many ways for two shuttles to hit each other so that they destroy each other's eggs (i.e. beehives) without damaging the shuttles. I don't know if anyone has ever made a definitive list of all the ways they can do this, and I'm not sure if anyone has ever posted your particular interaction before.
Incidentally, this would work equally well if the symmetry was reversed - that is, if the rightmost gun was moved down two lines. You can also get similar (but slightly different) mutual cleanup reactions if you move the rightmost gun up 1 or 2 lines.

[Herik Zorneck]

thanks for the information mniemiec!

This is very interesting, you gave me a lot of things to think about.
I'll try to study a little more these reactions to see if in the future I can do something more interesting.

Herik

[Freywa]

I deplore the poor spelling on Zorneck's part!

[Herik Zorneck]

my apologies ...

[mniemiec]

I deplore the poor spelling on Zorneck's part!

I used to be a major spelling and grammar nazi when I was young, but I eventually mostly got over it, after I finally realized that language was a tool to facilitate communication (so its proper usage should be encouraged), but NOT an idol to be worshiped for its own sake. I usually only worry about it when people's spelling and grammar are so poor and disjointed that it's impossible to make any sense of what they wrote.

I also try to give much more leeway to people for whom English may not be a first language. Their good but imperfect English is likely much better than my Russian or German, or whatever THEIR native language is.

[Tropylium]

In the case of your gun, there are basically three mechanisms involved: 1) the glider-producing interaction of two queen bee shuttles (found by Gosper 40+ years ago), 2) the block eating the beehive (also from the same time period), and 3) the two shuttles colliding to avoid dropping beehives.

The glider-producing mechanism is unique for queen bees, as far as I know. I know of two others that produce gliders, one of which almost escapes, and one which doesn't even come close.

Code: Select all

#C P30 almost-gun, and P30 suicidal gun
x = 87, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
11b2o45bo$10bobo10b2o32bobo$9b3o11b2o31bob2o18bo$2o6b3o15b2o6b2o14b2o
3b2ob2o17bobo$2o7b3o14b3o5b2o14b2o4bob2o16bo3b2o3b2o$10bobo13b2o29bobo
16bo3b2o3b2o$11b2o10b2o33bo17bo3b2o$23b2o52bobo$78bo!


FWIW: the first of these can be made into an actual "non-Gosper gun" by reaching in with a 3rd QB to reflect the glider.

Code: Select all

x = 36, y = 26, rule = B3/S23
11b2o$10bobo10b2o$9b3o11b2o$2o6b3o15b2o6b2o$2o7b3o3bobo8b3o5b2o$10bobo
3b2o8b2o$11b2o3bo6b2o$23b2o2$18bo$17bobo$16bo3bo$17b3o$15b2o3b2o11$18b
2o$18b2o!

[Herik Zorneck]

man ... you have no idea how much i apreciate this pattern !
Thank you very much !

[towerator]

This looks like the p30 90° reflection, but here, the shuttle cannot exist without the gun.

[codeholic]

This property of the queen bee is well-known. E. g. see reflectors2.rle in the Golly's pattern collection.

[Herik Zorneck]

look that :

Code: Select all

x = 70, y = 142, rule = B3/S23
50b2o$50b2o2$35b2o$35b2o2$50b3o$50b3o$49bo3bo2$48b2o3b2o3$34b3o$33bo3b
o$32bo5bo$32bo5bo$35bo$26b2o4bo5bo4b2o$24bo2bo15bo2bo12b2o$9bo13bo7bo
7bo7bo10bobo$7b4o12bo6bo4bo4bo6bo9bo6b2o2b2o$6bobob2o11bo7b2o5b2o7bo9b
o2bo2bo2bob2o$b2o2bo2bob3o11bo2bo15bo2bo10bo6b2o$b2o3bobob2o14b2o15b2o
13bobo$7b4o48b2o$9bo9$49b2o$49b2o2$34b2o$34b2o2$49b3o$49b3o$48bo3bo2$
47b2o3b2o3$33b3o$32bo3bo$31bo5bo$31bo5bo$34bo$25b2o4bo5bo4b2o$23bo2bo
15bo2bo12b2o$8bo13bo7bo7bo7bo10bobo$6b4o12bo6bo9bo6bo9bo6b2o2b2o$5bobo
b2o11bo7bo7bo7bo9bo2bo2bo2bob2o$2o2bo2bob3o11bo2bo15bo2bo10bo6b2o$2o3b
obob2o14b2o4bo5bo4b2o13bobo$6b4o24bo23b2o$8bo22bo5bo$31bo5bo$32bo3bo$
33b3o13$34b3o$33bo3bo$32bo5bo$32bo5bo22bo$10b2o23bo24b4o$10bobo13b2o4b
o5bo4b2o14b2obobo3b2o$5b2o6bo10bo2bo15bo2bo11b3obo2bo2b2o$b2obo2bo2bo
2bo9bo7bo7bo7bo11b2obobo$b2o2b2o6bo9bo6bo9bo6bo12b4o$10bobo10bo7bo7bo
7bo7bo5bo$10b2o12bo2bo15bo2bo9bo$26b2o4bo5bo4b2o9b3o$35bo$32bo5bo$32bo
5bo$33bo3bo$34b3o3$16b2o3b2o2$17bo3bo$18b3o$18b3o2$34b2o$34b2o2$19b2o$
19b2o9$60bo$9b2o48b4o$9bobo13b2o15b2o14b2obobo3b2o$4b2o6bo10bo2bo15bo
2bo11b3obo2bo2b2o$2obo2bo2bo2bo9bo7b2o5b2o7bo11b2obobo$2o2b2o6bo9bo6bo
4bo4bo6bo12b4o$9bobo10bo7bo7bo7bo13bo$9b2o12bo2bo15bo2bo$25b2o4bo5bo4b
2o$34bo$31bo5bo$31bo5bo$32bo3bo$33b3o3$15b2o3b2o2$16bo3bo$17b3o$17b3o
2$33b2o$33b2o2$18b2o$18b2o!


[towerator]

codeholic : itt's not the same reaction, as this one needs continuous glider imput to carry on. The stable reflector is based on a spark the "pre beehive gets eaten" reaction creates.
Therefore a memory loop can't be created with this shuttle.

[Tropylium]

After toying around with pentadecathlons a bit, here's Non-Gosper Gun #2:

Code: Select all

x = 24, y = 37, rule = B3/S23
22bo$20b3o$19bo$19b2o8$14b2o3b2o2$15bo3bo$16b3o$16b3o3$bo2b2o4b2o2bo$o
3b3o2b3o3bo$bo2b2o4b2o2bo2b3o$17b3o$16bo3bo$15bo5bo$16bo3bo$17b3o8$20b
2o$20bo$21b3o$23bo!

Edit: Despite the extra PD, this might actually be simpler to construct using slow salvos than a proper Gosper gun? The QBs do not have to be added simultaneously: it's possible to first build the lower QB, and to leave the PD to clean up the debris while constructing the upper QB.

[codeholic]

codeholic : itt's not the same reaction

I didn't claim that it is the same reaction as in the buckaroo. But reflectors2.rle lists that p30 dependent reflector as well.

[Herik Zorneck]

After toying around with pentadecathlons a bit, here's Non-Gosper Gun #2:

Code: Select all

x = 24, y = 37, rule = B3/S23
22bo$20b3o$19bo$19b2o8$14b2o3b2o2$15bo3bo$16b3o$16b3o3$bo2b2o4b2o2bo$o
3b3o2b3o3bo$bo2b2o4b2o2bo2b3o$17b3o$16bo3bo$15bo5bo$16bo3bo$17b3o8$20b
2o$20bo$21b3o$23bo!

Edit: Despite the extra PD, this might actually be simpler to construct using slow salvos than a proper Gosper gun? The QBs do not have to be added simultaneously: it's possible to first build the lower QB, and to leave the PD to clean up the debris while constructing the upper QB.

I'm shocked with it
it should be obvious to you but, despite this :
Pentagun

Code: Select all

x = 21, y = 65, rule = B3/S23
11b2o$11b2o5$12bo$12bo$11bobo$10b2ob2o$9bo5bo$12bo$9b2o3b2o3$14b3o$14b
ob2o$16b2o$15b2o$13bobo$11b2o2bo6$12b5o$11bob3obo$12bo3bo$13b3o$14bo2$
2bo4bo$2ob4ob2o2b4o$2bo4bo5b4o$12bo4bo$15bo$12bo5bo$12bo5bo$13bo3bo$
14b3o14$14b2o3b2o2$15bo3bo$16b3o$16b3o5$16b2o$16b2o!


[towerator]

The GMPG (gosper's modified pentadecathlogn gun) is awesome! And the reaction is brand new!
I wonder if there is more than 1 way to "pentadecathlonize" a 2 shuttles interaction.

[Tropylium]

Sure. Next up on increasingly convoluted p30 gun mechanisms, two similar ones that use two QBs to create a block, one PD to convert that into a glider, and and third QB to reroute the glider to safety:

Code: Select all

x = 78, y = 37, rule = B3/S23
58b3o$20b3o34bo3bo$19bo3bo33bo3bo$19bo3bo34b3o$20b3o4$58b3o$20b3o34bo
3bo$19bo3bo33bo3bo$19bo3bo34b3o$20b3o$55bo$17bo9bo19bo6b2o9bo$9bo6b2o
7bobo17bobo6bobo6bobo$7bobo6bobo5bobo17bobo15bobo$6bobo14bo2bo11b2o3bo
2bo14bo2bo$5bo2bo15bobo11b2o4bobo15bobo$6bobo12bo3bobo17bobo10bo4bobo
8b2o$2b2o3bobo10bobo4bo19bo9b3o5bo8bobo$bobo5bo9bo3bo32bo3bo15bo$bo17b
5o31bob3obo14b2o$2o16b2o3b2o31b5o$19b5o$20b3o$21bo6$60b2o$23b2o35bo$
23bo37b3o$24b3o36bo$26bo!

There are two reactions that allow turning p15×N block factories into guns using a pentadecathlon (the reaction on the left works on any block or preblock as long as it is created after the PD's first end spark; the 2nd specifically requires a block grandparent):

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
2bobo2$4bobo2$6bobo2$8bobo$9b2o5$4bo2b2o4b2o2bo$o2bo3b3o2b3o3bo$bo2bo
2b2o4b2o2bo$bo$o!

So if you can find a reaction in which two queen bees make a block, there's a decent probability it can be made into a gun.

I'd expect that there are also some direct 3-way reactions that can be made into guns.

(But the real $1000 question: is there a way to make a p30 LWSS (or MW or HW) gun in this fashion, i.e. without relying on reacting glider guns' output?)

[Sphenocorona]

To make a p30 *WSS gun we would need to find a small predescessor of the *WSS that would be able to escape the surrounding QB's and PD's, etc.

I just got very close to a P30 LWSS gun by colliding 4 QB's:

Code: Select all

x = 39, y = 43, rule = B3/S23
19b2o$19b2o2$19bo$18bobo$18bobo$19bo3$16b2obob2o$16bo5bo$17bo3bo$18b3o
8$26bo$10bobo11bobo$10bo3bo8bobo$14bo7bo2bo11b2o$2o8bo4bo7bobo11b2o$2o
12bo5bo3bobo$10bo3bo4bobo4bo$10bobo5bo3bo$18b5o$17b2o3b2o$18b5o$19b3o$
20bo7$22b2o$22bo$23b3o$25bo!

The LWSS is too deeply embedded in the mess, however. The LWSS does not interact with the left QB in any way if you delete the mess that destroys it.

[Herik Zorneck]

I found a way to pass a bee shuttle through 2 pentadecathlons.
it does nothing, is just a theoretical exercise. but I'm wondering if existing other ways for connect the cycle of bee shuttle with some oscillator with cycle occurs in the axis perpendicular in relation to bee shuttles cycle, to do something useful.

Code: Select all

x = 158, y = 104, rule = B3/S23
72bo$72bo2$72bo$71bobo2$71b3o3$71b3o2$71bobo$72bo2$72bo$66bo5bo3bo36bo
9bo$65b2o6b5o34b2o7b4o$64b2o4b4obob2o32b2o4b4obob2o$54b2o7b3o4b2o3bob
3o8b2o11b2o7b3o4b2o3bob3o8b2o$54b2o8b2o4b4obob2o9b2o11b2o8b2o4b4obob2o
9b2o$65b2o6b5o34b2o7b4o$66bo5bo3bo36bo9bo$72bo2$72bo$71bobo2$71b3o3$
71b3o2$71bobo$72bo2$72bo$72bo2$123b2o$32b2o6b2o81b2o$32b2o6b2o3$32b3o
5b3o$32b3o5b3o3$124bo$30b2o3b2ob2o3b2o78b3o$31b5o3b5o78b5o$32b3o5b3o
78b2o3b2o$33bo7bo$109bo29bo$18bo37bo52bo29bo$18bo37bo66b3o$109bo13b3o
13bo$18bo37bo51bobo12bobo12bobo$17bobo35bobo65bobo$108b3o11bo3bo11b3o$
17b3o35b3o64b5o$121b2o3b2o$108b3o11b5o11b3o$17b3o35b3o65b3o$33bo7bo66b
obo13bo13bobo$17bobo12b3o5b3o12bobo51bo29bo$18bo12b5o3b5o12bo$30b2o3b
2ob2o3b2o64bo29bo$18bo12b5o3b5o12bo46bo5bo3bo21bo3bo5bo$9bo8bo8bo3bo3b
o3bo3bo3bo8bo8bo36b2o6b5o19b5o6b2o$9b2o15b4ob2obo5bob2ob4o15b2o35b2o4b
4obob2o17b2obob4o4b2o8b2o$4b2o4b2o13b2obob2obo7bob2obob2o13b2o4b2o2b2o
16b2o7b3o4b2o3bob3o15b3obo3b2o4b3o7b2o$2o2b2o4b3o11b3obo2bo11bo2bob3o
11b3o4b2o2b2o16b2o8b2o4b4obob2o17b2obob4o4b2o$2o2b2o4b2o13b2obob2obo7b
ob2obob2o13b2o4b2o31b2o6b5o19b5o6b2o$9b2o15b4ob2obo5bob2ob4o15b2o37bo
5bo3bo21bo3bo5bo$9bo8bo8bo3bo3bo3bo3bo3bo8bo8bo43bo29bo$18bo12b5o3b5o
12bo$30b2o3b2ob2o3b2o64bo29bo$18bo12b5o3b5o12bo51bobo13bo13bobo$17bobo
12b3o5b3o12bobo65b3o$33bo7bo66b3o11b5o11b3o$17b3o35b3o63b2o3b2o$122b5o
$108b3o11bo3bo11b3o$17b3o35b3o65bobo$108bobo12bobo12bobo$17bobo35bobo
51bo13b3o13bo$18bo37bo66b3o$109bo29bo$18bo37bo52bo29bo$18bo37bo$121b2o
3b2o$33bo7bo80b5o$32b3o5b3o80b3o$31b5o3b5o80bo$30b2o3b2ob2o3b2o4$32b3o
5b3o$32b3o5b3o2$124b2o$33b2o6b2o81b2o$33b2o6b2o!


EDITED

some "Pentaguns Machines " designs

a pure non Gosper Pentagun Machine

Code: Select all

x = 65, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
16b3o$15bo3bo$15bo3bo$16b3o5$16b3o$15bo3bo$15bo3bo$16b3o33b2o$24b2o13b
2o11b3o$11b2o11bobo11bobo13b2obo$10b3o12b3o9b3o14bo2bo5b2o$2o5bob2o15b
3o7b3o15b2obo5b2o$2o5bo2bo14b3o9b3o12b3o$7bob2o13bobo11bobo11b2o$10b3o
11b2o13b2o$11b2o33b3o$45bo3bo$45bo3bo$46b3o5$46b3o$45bo3bo$45bo3bo$46b
3o!


Code: Select all

x = 28, y = 67, rule = B3/S23
20b2o$20b2o5$21bo$21bo$20bobo$19b2ob2o$18bo5bo$21bo$18b2o3b2o3$23b3o$
3b2o18bob2o$3b2o20b2o$24b2o$22bobo$20b2o2bo6$2b3o16b5o$bo3bo14bob3obo$
o5bo14bo3bo$o5bo15b3o$3bo19bo$bo4bo$2b4o5bo4bo$3b4o2b2ob4ob2o2b4o$11bo
4bo5b4o$21bo4bo$4bo19bo$3b3o15bo5bo$2bo3bo14bo5bo$bob3obo14bo3bo$2b5o
16b3o6$3bo2b2o$3bobo$2b2o$b2o20b2o$b2obo18b2o$2b3o3$3b2o3b2o$6bo$3bo5b
o$4b2ob2o$5bobo$6bo$6bo5$6b2o$6b2o!


look this model : it works !

Code: Select all

x = 32, y = 67, rule = B3/S23
23b2o$23b2o$2b2o$2b2o3$23bo$23bo$2b3o17bobo$2b3o16b2ob2o$bo3bo14bo5bo$
23bo$2o3b2o13b2o3b2o3$25b3o$25bob2o$27b2o$26b2o$24bobo$22b2o2bo6$4b3o
16b5o$3bo3bo14bob3obo$2bo5bo14bo3bo$2bo5bo15b3o$5bo19bo$3bo4bo$4b4o5bo
4bo$5b4o2b2ob4ob2o2b4o$13bo4bo5b4o$23bo4bo$6bo19bo$5b3o15bo5bo$4bo3bo
14bo5bo$3bob3obo14bo3bo$4b5o16b3o6$5bo2b2o$5bobo$4b2o$3b2o$3b2obo$4b3o
3$5b2o3b2o13b2o3b2o$8bo$5bo5bo14bo3bo$6b2ob2o16b3o$7bobo17b3o$8bo$8bo
3$28b2o$28b2o$7b2o$7b2o!


this stabilization works too, but I think this is less usable than others

Code: Select all

x = 30, y = 37, rule = B3/S23
26b2o$4b2o20b2o$4b2o9$3b3o19b3o$2bo3bo17bo3bo$bo5bo15bo5bo$bo5bo16bo3b
o$4bo20b3o$2bo4bo17b3o$3b4o5bo4bo$4b4o2b2ob4ob2o2b4o$12bo4bo5b4o$2b3o
17bo4bo$2b3o20bo$bo3bo16bo5bo$o5bo15bo5bo$bo3bo17bo3bo$2b3o19b3o9$24b
2o$2b2o20b2o$2b2o!