## Synthesising Oscillators

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

### Re: Synthesising Oscillators

Extrementhusiast wrote:The last 16-bit P2 in about the least likely way imaginable (in two slight variants): ...
The corresponding 17-bit P2 can be made the same way far more cheaply: ...

Very nice! The second converter improves one 16-bit P2 from 24 to 21 gliders.
It solves 3 previously unknown 17s from 17, 27, and 31 gliders respectively.
(It also solves 2 18s, 9 19s, 7 20s, and 15 21s.)
x = 188, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
14bo99bo49bo$3bo10bobo86bo10bobo36bo10bobo$4bo9boo88bo9boo38bo9boo$bb 3o44boo51b3o47b3o$50boo$16bo32bo3bobo60bo49bo$16bobo34boo61bobo47bobo$16boo36bo61boo48boo4$16bo99bo32boo15bo12boo$oo3boo7boo14boo3bo30bo12b oo5bo18boo7boo19bo13bobo3boo7boo13bobo3bo$o5bo8boo13bo4bo30bo12bo6bo
10boo4$13boo$12bobbo$11bo3bo$8boobobbo5boo$11b3o6boo$$20bo19bobo19bo bbobboo23boboo21boo! What about something like this? x = 71, y = 28, rule = Life 66bo2bo21b2o43bo21b2o2b2o38bo4bo19b2obo2b2o37bobo2b2o19b3o40b2obo 210bo41bo9bobo8b2o31bob2o5bo2bo9bobo8b2o29bobobobo6b2o8b2obob2o38b obob2o12bo2bo36bo3bo2bo13b2o42b2o34bo35bo32b5o10b2o23bo18b2o9bo 2bo21bo18bo2bo3bo10b2obob2o37b2obobo13bobo39bobobobo13bobo31bo2bo5b 2obo2b2o10bo32bo12bo2b2o2b2o38bo4bo2obo2b2o37bobo2b2o3o40b2obo3b 2o40bo2bob2o42b2o! LifeWiki: Like Wikipedia but with more spaceships. [citation needed] BlinkerSpawn Posts: 1871 Joined: November 8th, 2014, 8:48 pm Location: Getting a snacker from R-Bee's ### Re: Synthesising Oscillators Final step: x = 35, y = 41, rule = B3/S23 31bo30bo30b3o313bo14bo6b2o3bobo14bobo5bo2bo3b2o14b2o5bo5bo5bob o3bo6bobo3bo7bo4bo8b4o18bo29bo20b2o7b3o20bo3bo14bo6b4o7b2o13bo bo16bobo13bobo5b4o7bo10bo3bo5bo3bo2bo7b4o5boboobo16bobob2o7b4o6bo 10bo3bo3b3o7b2o10b2o5bo18bo2bo4bo19bo24bo24bobo3bo25bobo3bo26b o4bo27b4o5b2o14b2o4bobo14bobo6bo14bo32b3o4bo3bo! x₁=ηx V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη) K=(Λu²)/2 Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)$$x_1=\eta xV^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all Aidan F. Pierce A for awesome Posts: 1806 Joined: September 13th, 2014, 5:36 pm Location: 0x-1 ### Re: Synthesising Oscillators 44P12.2 from 79 gliders: x = 515, y = 249, rule = B3/S23 339bobo339b2o179bo160bo180bo178b3o10bobo192b2o192bo343bo342bo 175bo152bo13b3o176bo150bo174b3o150b3o2334bo13bo334bobo11bobo334b 2o12b2o357bo355b2o356b2o3174bo175b2o174b2o7204bo205b2o102bo 204b2o103bobo309b2o2306bo194bo111bobo192bobo111b2o193b2o2190bo 191b2o134bo190b2o134bo326b3o4328bobo328b2o329bo314bo312b2o313b 2o10291bobo291b2o292bo251bo249bobo25bobo25bo250b2o25b2o26bobo 278bo26b2o2270bobo249bo20b2o30bo250b2o19bo24bo4bo249b2o44bo5b3o 292bo2b3o280bo9b2o278b2o11b2o279b2o2236bo4bobo30bo237bo4b2o25bo3b o235b3o4bo24b2o4b3o253bo5bo8b2o251bobo3b2o28bo252b2o4b2o25b2o286b 2o258bo258b2o257bobo6277b2o270bo5b2o269b2o7bo261b2o6bobo260bob o262bo240b2o241b2o240bo250b2o249bobo251bo265bo236b2o26b2o15b 2o237b2o7bo17bobo14bobo236bo9b2o33bo7bo245bobo40b2o277b3o8bobo 277bo278bo2254bo254b2o253bobo280b2o279b2o245bo35bo232b2o11b2o 50b3o233b2o9bobo50bo232bo65bo2243b2o242bobo69b3o244bo46b2o21bo 291bobo21bo291bo312b2o242b2o67b2o241bobo69bo243bo4236b3o198bo 39bo198b2o37bo197bobo301bo9b2o221bo78b2o9bobo221b2o77bobo8bo199b 3o18bobo73b2o201bo94bobo37b2o200bo95bo38b2o337bo2333b2o220b2o111b obo219bobo111bo221bo2217b2o216bobo103b2o218bo102b2o323bo7352b2o 351b2o353bo3170b2o171b2o170bo178b2o12b2o177bobo11bobo179bo13bo 2198b3o150b3o200bo150bo183b3o13bo152bo185bo184bo335bo334b2o 334bobo10b3o347bo187bo160bo187b2o186bobo18466bo98bo315bo50bo99b o9bo302b2o51b3o97b3o7b2o304b2o35bo108b2o341b2o11bo419bobo28b2o13bo 102bo316b2o42b3o100b2o318bo18bo77bobo2b2o261bo105bo16b2o79b2o266bo 3bo38b2o11b2o45b2o2bo5bo8b2o78bo265b3ob2o38bo2bo10bobo22bo10b2o10b2o obo3b2o360b2o37bo2bo10bo25b2o8bob2o4b2o100bobo81bo214b2o36b2o10bo58b o50b2o48bo33bobo223bo39bo7bo48b2o52bo30b2o15bo27b2o5b2o36b2o38b2o13bo bo25b2o10b2o43b2o38b2o5b2o40bo13bobo7b2o48b2o30bo51bo3b2o11b3o25bo3b 2o39bo39bo14b2o25bobo3bo6bo44bo39bo6bobo40bo12b2o31b2o6bobo51b2o22bo 5b2o50bo2b2o40bo2b2o40bo39bo14bo27bob2o8bo44bo39bo49bo12bo29b2o2bo52b o7bobo19bobo4b2o11b2o37b2o43b2o43b2o38b2o45b2o6b2o43b2o38b2o48b2o19bo 22b5o51bobo6bo22b2o16bo2bo35bo44bo44bo39bo17b2o35bo37b2o5bo32b2o5bo 42b2o5bo21bobo24bo51b2o35bo12b4o34bob4o39bob4o39bob4o34bob4o13bobo25b o7bob4o33bobo3bob4o28bobo3bob4o38bobo3bob4o13b2o2b2o18b2o2b4o49b2o37b 2o9b2o34b2obobo4bo34b2obobo4bo34b2obobo4bo29b2obobo4bo12bo27b2o2b2obob o4bo35bobobo4bo30bobobo4bo40bobobo4bo12bobo21b2obo4b4o48bobob3o32bobo 8bobob3o30bob2obob2obo34bob2obob2obo34bob2obob2obo29bob2obob2obo39bobo 2bob2obob2obo36b2obob2obo31b2obob2obo41b2obob2obo12bo22bobobob2obobobo 49bo2bo2bo42bobobo2bo34bob2obob2o5bo30bob2obob2o9bobo24bob2obob2o31bo b2obob2o7bo38bob2obob2obo2bobo29bob2obob2o31bob2obob2o28bo12bob2obob2o 32bobobob2obobobo19bo32bo2bo43b2obo2bo34bo4bobobo3bo31bo4bobo4bobo3b 2o25bo4bobobo30bo4bobobo5b2o38bo4bobob2o2b2o30bo4bobobo30bo4bobobo25bo bo12bo4bobobo32b4o4bob2o18b2o33b2o48b2o31b2o3b4o3bo4b3o25b2o3b4o2bo4b 2o5bo26b4o2bobo31b4o2bobo5bobo38b4obo7bo31b4obo3bobo28b4obo3bobo19b2o 2b2o13b4obo3bobo33b4o2b2o10b2o6bobo24bo90b2o43b2o9b2o4bo38b2o38b2o51b o44bo5b2o32bo5b2o18bobo21bo5b2o33bo9bobo33b2o37bo58b2o11b2o30b4o8bo 32b4o36b4o51b2o6b2o35b2o38b2o28bo19b2o41b5o11bo32bobo37b2o25b3o29bobo 10bobo19b3o7bo2bo7b2o32bo2bo4bo31bo2bo3bo47bo8b2obo32bo39bo36bo12bo42b o2b2o83bobo7b2o16bo32bo11bo23bo18bobo32b2o4bo33b2o3bobo47bo6bo3bobo 31bo30bobo6bo35b2o12bo42b2o47b3o44b2o16bo66bo60b3o35bo2bo46b2o10b2o 31b2o31b2o5b2o34bobo13bo47bo45bo14b2o169b2o125bo59bo48bo59bobo78b2o 48b2o175b2o49bo10b2o108bo35b2o44b2o46bobo135b2o26bo10bo2bo49bo8b2o 143bobo43bo3b2o45bo136b2ob3o19bobo10bo2bo36b2o10b2o10bo145bo46b2o80b 2o8b3o89bo3bo22b2o11b2o38b2o147b3o44bo70b2o6b2o9bo96bo73bo147bo118b 2o7bo9bo119bo135b2o11bo39b2o75bo3b3o133b2o53b3o134bobo52b2o78bo134bo bo53bo13b2o136bo51bo81bo190bo11b2o411b2o62bo412b2o44b3o411bo48bo 459bo! mattiward Posts: 22 Joined: February 8th, 2018, 3:19 am ### Re: Synthesising Oscillators A for awesome wrote:Final step: x = 35, y = 41, rule = B3/S23 31bo30bo30b3o313bo14bo6b2o3bobo14bobo5bo2bo3b2o14b2o5bo5bo5bob o3bo6bobo3bo7bo4bo8b4o18bo29bo20b2o7b3o20bo3bo14bo6b4o7b2o13bo bo16bobo13bobo5b4o7bo10bo3bo5bo3bo2bo7b4o5boboobo16bobob2o7b4o6bo 10bo3bo3b3o7b2o10b2o5bo18bo2bo4bo19bo24bo24bobo3bo25bobo3bo26b o4bo27b4o5b2o14b2o4bobo14bobo6bo14bo32b3o4bo3bo! I would like to have the full synthesis for the oscillator, not just the final step. mattiward Posts: 22 Joined: February 8th, 2018, 3:19 am ### Re: Synthesising Oscillators mattiward wrote:I would like to have the full synthesis for the oscillator, not just the final step. I will attempt to put one together later tonight when I get home, time permitting. Is there some reason you urgently need this particular synthesis? EDIT: 52p84 in 55 gliders: x = 174, y = 180, rule = B3/S23 71bo66bo4bobo64bobo4boo65boobbo68boo68bobo25bo29bo6bo22bo95bobo 27bobo6bo20bobo38boo25boo28bobo27bobo4b3obbo17bobo5boo35bo3bo22bo3bo 25bo3bo25bo3bo9bo15bo3bo5bobo35b4o23b4o26b4o26b4o10b3o13b4o5bobo8bo 152boo3bobboo27b4o23b4o26b4o26b4o6bo7boo10b4o4bobboo3b3o20bo3bo22bo 3bo25bo3bo25bo3bo5boo6bobo9bo3bobb3o7bo25boo25boo28boo28boo4bobo6bo 14boo13bo3bobooobo573bo74bo72b3o$$75bobo$75boo64bobo$76bo4bo59b oo$72bo6boo61bo$70bobo7boo$71boo$16bobo27bo29bo26bo29bo29boo$6bo9boo
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18bobo5b4o18bobo5b4o18bobo5b4o18bobo5b4o18bobo5b4o$bbo3bo5bo3bo15bo3bo 5bo3bo15bo3bo5bo3bo15bo3bo5bo3bo15bo3bo5bo3bo15bo3bo5bo3bo$bb4o5bobo
18b4o5bobo18b4o5bobo18b4o5bobo18b4o5bobo18b4o5bobo$11bobo27bobo27bobo 27bobo27bobo27bobo$bb4o6bo19b4o6bo19b4o6bo19b4o6bo19b4o6bo19b4o6bo$bbo 3bo25bo3bo25bo3bo25bo3bo25bo3bo25bo3bo$5boo28boo28boo28boo28boo28boo
16$111bo$110bo$110b3o$108bo$109bo$36bo70b3o38boo$35bo112boo$35b3o$33bo$34bo113boo$32b3o38boo32bobo3boo32bobbobboo$73boo33boo3boo32bobbobboo$108bo39boo$$42boo38boo23boo13boo38boo42bo3bo35bo3bo19bobo13bo3bo35bo 3bo36bo6b4o29bo6b4o21bo7bo6b4o29bo6b4o35bobo37bobo37bobo37bobo35bob o5b4o28bobo5b4o28bobo5b4o28bobo5b4o32bo3bo5bo3bo25bo3bo5bo3bo25bo3bo 5bo3bo25bo3bo5bo3bo32b4o5bobo28b4o5bobo28b4o5bobo28b4o5bobo41bobo37b obo37bobo37bobo32b4o6bo29b4o6bo29b4o6bo29b4o6bo32bo3bo35bo3bo35bo3bo 35bo3bo35boo38boo10boo26boo10boo26boo10boo87boo38boo38boo136bo136b obo44b3o89boo29boo44bo82boo4boo31bobbobboo45bo76b3oboo5bobo30bobbo bboo41b3o80bo3bo4bo33boo43bo79bo42bo15134bo133bo133b3o3114bo16b o112bobo16bobo28boo38boo38boo3boo16boo15boo28boo36bobbo36bobbo36bo bbo328boo36boobo36boobo36boobo27bobbobboo33bobobboo33bobobboo33bobo bboo21bo5bobbobboo34bo4bo34bo4bo18bo15bo4bo22bo5boo40bo39bo21bo17bo 7bo20b3o47bobbo36bobbo18b3o15bobbo4bo42boo38boo38boo35bo42bo3bo35bo 3bo35bo3bo33bo36bo6b4o29bo6b4o29bo6b4o28bo4bo35bobo37bobo37bobo17boo 22boo11bobo5b4o28bobo5b4o28bobo5b4o8bobo18bo3boo21bobo8bo3bo5bo3bo 25bo3bo5bo3bo16bo8bo3bo5bo3bo8bo20bo5bo23bo8b4o5bobo28b4o5bobo17bobo 8b4o5bobo33boo3bo41bobo37bobo18boo17bobo32b4o6bo29b4o6bo29b4o6bo35bo 4bo32bo3bo35bo3bo35bo3bo41bo35boo10boo26boo10boo26boo10boo30bo7boo 47boo36bobbo15b3o18bobbo31bo4bobbo106bo53bo105bo47boo36boobo36boobo 36boobo46bobbobboo33bobobboo33bobobboo33bobobboo46bobbobboo34bo4bo 34bo4bo34bo4bo47boo40bo39bo39bo89bobbo36bobbo36bobbo106boo16boo 105bobo16bobo38b3o66bo16bo40bo4boo39bo5bobo45bo57b3o105bo104bo! 51 gliders: x = 575, y = 241, rule = B3/S23 379bobo379b2o380bo3217bo160bo215bobo160bobo216b2o160b2o6380bo 379bo379b3o4238bobo239b2o206bo32bo204bobo154bo205b2o153bo240bo 119b3o241bo239b3o3251bo252b2o251b2o3344bo344bobo344b2o2251bo 252b2o93bobo251b2o94b2o259bo88bo260b2o259b2o86bo339bo6bo338bo7b 3o338b3o21bo343bo17bo228bobo26bobo83bobo15b3o229b2o27b2o83b2o229b o28bo81bo6bo339bo6bo339b3o4b3o3349bobo349b2o350bo3303bobo303b2o 304bo257bobo253bo4b2o251bobo4bo252b2o3276bo277b2o276b2o46bo 322b2o308bo14b2o279bo28bobo277bobo28b2o278b2o10282bobo283b2o 283bo3295bo284b3o7bo286bo2b2o3b3o285bo2b2o290bo5306bo305b2o 305bobo14250bo250b2o75bo249bobo23b3o48b2o277bo48bobo276bo2304bo 303b2o303bobo244bo244b2o243bobo4340b2o340bobo340bo7347b3o347b o9b2o348bo7b2o358bo20382b2o358b3o21bobo358bo23bo359bo2356b2o 356bobo235bo120bo207b3o25b2o209bo24bobo208bo3226bo226b2o225bobo 209b2o160b2o208bobo160bobo210bo160bo3208bo208b2o207bobo11431bo 430bo430b3o4422bo421bo421b3o417bobo418b2o374bo43bo47bo18bo375b o39bo11b3o37b2o14b2o373b3o38bobo10bo38b2o16b2o42bo414bobo11bo98bo 370b3o42bo46b2o48b2o13b3o22b2o12bobo357bo85b2o2b2o44b2o2b2o34b2o2b2o 12b2o213bo143bo86b2o2bob2o42b2o2bob2o9b2o21b2o2bob2o13bo213bobo233b3o 47b3o9b2o26b3o227b2o18bobo217bo30b2o235bobobo213bobo30bo214b2o20b2o 26b2o6b2o30b2o6b2o2bo7b3o22b2o24bo6bobo4b2o43b2o43b2o38b2o9b2o47b2o 38b2o38b2o38b2o38b2o36b2o10b2o9bo26b2o7bo30b2o7bo3o3b2o2bo24bo3bo19bo bo6b2o5bo3bo40bo3bo40bo3bo35bo3bo36b2o17bo3bo35bo3bo35bo3bo35bo3bo35bo 3bo45bo3bo42b2o38b2o7b2o2bo24b4o20b2o7bo6b4o41b4o34bo6b4o29bo6b4o35bo bo11bo6b4o29bo6b4o29bo6b4o29bo6b4o29bo6b4o39bo6b4o6bo101bo5b2o42bobo 37bobo46bo10bobo37bobo37bobo37bobo37bobo47bobo17b2o33b2o38b2o36b4o23b 3o10b4o29b2o2bobo5b4o33bobo5b4o28bobo5b4o11bo36bobo5b4o28bobo5b4o28bob o5b4o28bobo5b4o28bobo5b4o38bobo5b4o7b2o35bo39bo35bo3bo25bo9bo3bo28b2o 2bobo5bo3bo34bo5bo3bo29bo5bo3bo11bobo25bo9bo5bo3bo25bo3bo5bo3bo25bo3bo 5bo3bo25bo3bo5bo3bo25bo3bo5bo3bo25bo9bo3bo5bo3bo9bo29bo5bo33bo5bo35b 2o27bo2b3o4bobo35b2o5bobo34b3o5bobo29b3o5bobo14b2o26b2o5b3o5bobo28b4o 5bobo28b4o5bobo28b4o5bobo28b4o5bobo29b2o7b4o5bobo43bo39bo67bo6bobo32b o9bobo33bo8bobo28bo8bobo41bobo4bo8bobo37bobo37bobo37bobo37bobo28b2o17b obo43b2o38b2o31bobo34bo6bo33b2o9bo33bobo8bo30b3o6bo13b2o35b3o6bo31b2o 6bo31b2o6bo29b4o6bo29b4o6bo39b4o6bo32b2o74bobo44bo42bo19b2o38bo38b2o 34bo2bobo36bo2bo36bo2bo46bo3bo51b2o38b2o32bo2b2o122b2o59bo110bobo3bo 120bo9b2o52bo39bo29b2o4bobo92b2o18b2o7bobo13b2o38b2o77bo37b2o124b2o 62b2o38b2o28bobo4bo50b2o41bo2bo18b2o6bo14bo2bo36bo2bo31bo21b2o21b2o2b 2o11b2o38b2o38b2o38b2o24bobo21b2o48b2o38b2o30bo55bobo41b2o18bo4bo19b 2o38b2o32b2o16b2o2b2o20bobob2o8b2o2b2o17b2o15b2o2b2o34b2o2b2o24b2o8b2o 2b2o44b2o2b2o44b2o2b2o34b2o2b2o86bo68b2o91bobo16b2o2bob2o24bo7b2o2bob 2o15bobo14b2o2bob2o32b2o2bob2o21b2o9b2o2bob2o42b2o2bob2o33b2o7b2o2bob 2o32b2o2bob2o83b2o69bobo115b3o37b3o15bo21b3o37b3o18b2o3bo13b3o47b3o 33b2o12b3o37b3o82bobo212b2o115b2o84bo72b3o136bobo114bo101b3o157bo 114b2o24bo13b2o38b2o38b2o38b2o48b2o33bo14b2o38b2o158bo113b2o38b2o38b 2o38b2o23b3o12b2o25b2o16b2o3b2o32bo15b2o38b2o417bo42b2o14b2o418bo40b o18bo! mattiward Posts: 22 Joined: February 8th, 2018, 3:19 am ### Re: Synthesising Oscillators Any leads on possible synthesis for this oscillator? x = 53, y = 53, rule = B3/S23 19b2o19bobo22bo2b2o20b2obo2bo19bobob2o20bo321b3o20bo3bo19bo5bo 19bo5bo19bo5bo16b2o2bo3bo15bobo3b3o12bo15bo20b3o14b2o23bo38b2o 31b3o18bo12bo8b3o5bo2b2o18bobo11bo6bo3bo3bobo2bo18b2o18bo5bo3b2obo 38bo5bo5bo38bo5bo3b2o39bo3bo4bo40b3o7bo2b2o45b2o2bo7b3o4bo4bo3bo 3b2o3bo5bo2bo5bo5bobob2o3bo5bo18b2oo2bobo3bo3bo6bo11bobo2o2bo5b3o 8bo12bo19b3o13b2o13bo23b2o14b3o20bo16bo12b3o3bobo28bo3bo2b2o27b o5bo27bo5bo27bo5bo28bo3bo29b3o332bo28b2obobo26bo2bob2o26b2o2bo 31bobo32b2o! mattiward Posts: 22 Joined: February 8th, 2018, 3:19 am ### Re: Synthesising Oscillators mattiward wrote:Any leads on possible synthesis for this oscillator? RLE Have you seen Kazyan's post about this oscillator in the still life synthesis thread? 77topaz Posts: 1345 Joined: January 12th, 2018, 9:19 pm ### Re: Synthesising Oscillators A 32-bit P4 http://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp4_7o0uzx3v0szy0107u0ozy33w7/b3s23 came up on Catagolue on Feb. 5. There are two soups listed. The first doesn't actually generate the oscillator. The second leads to a 14-glider synthesis: x = 168, y = 31, rule = B3/S23 5bo4bo4b3obbo3bob3o28boo28boo68bo32boo28boo68bobo132boo$$91bo8b oo19bo8boo19bo$90bobbo6boo18bobbo6boo18bobbo$53bobo35bobo27bobo27bobo$
13bo40boo35bobbo26bobbo26bobbo$11bobo28boo10bo3bo13boo18bobobbobo22bob obbobo22bobobbobo$bo10boob3o16bo6bobbo13boo4bo6bobbo17bobobbobo22bobo
bbobo22bobobbobo$bbo12bo17bobo6bobo12bobo3bobo6bobo3bobo16bobbo26bobbo 26bobbo$3oboo10bo16bobbo6bo19bobbo6bo4boo18bobobbobo22bobobbobo22bobo
bbobo$4bobo27boo28boo13bo3bo14bobobbobo22bobobbobo22bobobbobo$4bo77boo
19bobbo26bobbo26bobbo$82bobo19bobo27bobo27bobo$96boo6bobbo18boo6bobbo
26bobbo$96boo8bo19boo8bo29bo$$124boo$44boo28boo47bobo$14b3o27boo28boo 49bo$14bo$15bo$11b3o$13bo$12bo!
mniemiec

Posts: 1021
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 12:00 am

### Re: Synthesising Oscillators

mniemiec wrote:A 32-bit P4 http://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp4_7o0uzx3v0szy0107u0ozy33w7/b3s23 came up on
Catagolue on Feb. 5. There are two soups listed. The first doesn't actually generate the oscillator.
The second leads to a 14-glider synthesis:

It does as soon as you realise why apgluxe has been consistently misclassifying objects in symmetric soups:

x = 82, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
bo4bobo5b2o35bo4bobo5b2o$4b2ob2o3b4o38b2ob2o3b4o$o2bo2b2o7bo34bo2bo2b
2o7bo$2b2o3b2ob6o36b2o3b2ob6o$2bo2b2ob2ob2ob2o36bo2b2ob2ob2ob2o$2b2o4b 2o2b4o36b2o4b2o2b4o$bob2ob2obo2b4o35bob2ob2obo2b4o$bob2ob4o2bo2bo35bob 2ob4o2bo2bo$o3bob2ob2o4bo34bo3bob2ob2o4bo$o2b3o4b3o2bo34bo2b3o4b3o2bo$
2b3obobobo4bo36b3obobobo4bo$2o2b3o2bo2bobo35b2o2b3o2bo2bobo$4ob2o2bo2b
3o35b4ob2o2bo2b3o$4o3b3o3bo36b4o3b3o3bo$ob2ob2obobobo37bob2ob2obobobo$2b3ob3ob4obo36b3ob3ob4ob2ob4ob3ob3o$15bob4ob3ob3o40bobobob2ob2obo$18bo bobob2ob2obo37bo3b3o3b4o$17bo3b3o3b4o36b3o2bo2b2ob4o$16b3o2bo2b2ob4o 36bobo2bo2b3o2b2o$16bobo2bo2b3o2b2o35bo4bobobob3o$15bo4bobobob3o37bo2b 3o4b3o2bo$15bo2b3o4b3o2bo35bo4b2ob2obo3bo$15bo4b2ob2obo3bo35bo2bo2b4ob 2obo$15bo2bo2b4ob2obo36b4o2bob2ob2obo$15b4o2bob2ob2obo36b4o2b2o4b2o$
15b4o2b2o4b2o37b2ob2ob2ob2o2bo$15b2ob2ob2ob2o2bo37b6ob2o3b2o$15b6ob2o
3b2o37bo7b2o2bo2bo$15bo7b2o2bo2bo35b4o3b2ob2o$15b4o3b2ob2o39b2o5bobo4b
o\$15b2o5bobo4bo!

The question is: how do we resolve this?
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!

calcyman

Posts: 2023
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 4:32 pm

### Re: Synthesising Oscillators

Ahh so THATs why the apgluxe phantom objects exist. They're slightly a meme now

Majestas32

Posts: 524
Joined: November 20th, 2017, 12:22 pm
Location: 'Merica

### Re: Synthesising Oscillators

calcyman wrote:
mniemiec wrote:The first doesn't actually generate the oscillator.

It does as soon as you realise why apgluxe has been consistently misclassifying objects in symmetric soups...
The question is: how do we resolve this?

That's easy.

1) Fix the shifted symmetric soup bug, and any other little hiccups that have showed up...
2) Back up the Catagolue database as it currently stands -- make it available at oldcatagolue.appspot.com...
3) Reset to a new empty database, with all new discoveries to be made...
4) Launch LifeCoin and see how many miners jump on board.
5) Profit (???)

We may think we've done a lot of searching in the last few years, but cryptocurrency mining is rumored to use as much electricity these days as Nigeria, and they don't even end up with much of anything to show for it (besides the bitcoins, etc.). A small fraction of that CPU time would pretty quickly get us far past today's Catagolue counts.

Anyway, I'd buy a LifeCoin or two myself,* and I'm sure I'm not the only HackerNews/Slashdot/Reddit/whatever reader that would say the same. It's not often that cryptocurrency mining does actual interesting research. Seems to me new Life patterns are even more interesting than, say, a dog on a coin.

* Yes, I know that part is actually the opposite of profit. Doesn't matter any more than it did to the early DogeCoin folks, who found they had something that was nice to swap around, tip people with and so forth. (I read a good longer article about Markus and Palmer and the early history of DogeCoin recently, can't find it offhand.)

dvgrn
Moderator

Posts: 5620
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm

### Re: Synthesising Oscillators

I think it would be possible to have a script scan every symmetric soup stored as a sample for an object, run it, see if the object actually appears, and if not, shift the soup and save it. It would probably take some time, though, and may require locking the database for said time (though, up to a point I think that would actually be acceptable, considering the scale of this problem).

77topaz

Posts: 1345
Joined: January 12th, 2018, 9:19 pm

### Re: Synthesising Oscillators

77topaz wrote:I think it would be possible to have a script scan every symmetric soup stored as a sample for an object, run it, see if the object actually appears, and if not, shift the soup and save it. It would probably take some time, though, and may require locking the database for said time (though, up to a point I think that would actually be acceptable, considering the scale of this problem).

Or, more practically, change Catagolue's hashsoup() to check whether the seed begins 'l_' and, if so, applies the apgluxe version of soup generation. I think that's the most feasible way to solve this problem. It also means that, if we decide to modify apgluxe's hashsoup to be backward-compatible with earlier versions, then we can just capitalise the L.
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!

calcyman

Posts: 2023
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 4:32 pm

### Re: Synthesising Oscillators

calcyman wrote:Or, more practically, change Catagolue's hashsoup() to check whether the seed begins 'l_' and, if so, applies the apgluxe version of soup generation. I think that's the most feasible way to solve this problem. It also means that, if we decide to modify apgluxe's hashsoup to be backward-compatible with earlier versions, then we can just capitalise the L.

That sounds like the most sensible way forward. The census data's fine after all, no need to throw it out; just fix the soup generation code on Catagolue to handle l_ prefixes as apgluxe <= 4.24-ll1.23 does, and release a new version of apgluxe that corrects soup generation while also introducing a new prefix. These are both independent, and neither is pressing.

As far as bugs go, "easily fixed, no lasting adverse effects, no data loss, no coordination required, no time constraints" is pretty good.
If you speak, your speech must be better than your silence would have been. — Arabian proverb

Catagolue: Apple Bottom • Life Wiki: Apple Bottom • Twitter: @_AppleBottom_

Proud member of the Pattern Raiders!

Apple Bottom

Posts: 1023
Joined: July 27th, 2015, 2:06 pm

### Re: Synthesising Oscillators

As for the specifics of lifecoin, I'm thinking automatically generated rare osc/spaceship/patterns in every rule with >100 million objects. Maybe the rare index increases with the number of objects search. This would encourage miners to search a diversity of other rules as well as life

Majestas32

Posts: 524
Joined: November 20th, 2017, 12:22 pm
Location: 'Merica

### Re: Synthesising Oscillators

Majestas32 wrote:As for the specifics of lifecoin, I'm thinking automatically generated rare osc/spaceship/patterns in every rule with >100 million objects. Maybe the rare index increases with the number of objects search. This would encourage miners to search a diversity of other rules as well as life

If one thinks of the rule search space as a 102-dimensional space, there are many rules that are extremely similar to other ones nearby (e.g. differ only in include neighborhoods like B8 and S8 that rarely occur, so they rarely make any difference). This means that when gems are found in one rule, it's likely that similar gems are found in some adjacent rules. This would make it fairly easy to game the system by cloning useful soups from one rule and submitting them under another. The thing that makes cryptocurrency mining feasible is that results are rare but fairly evenly distributed. Distributions of useful results in CA soups is not nearly as even.
mniemiec

Posts: 1021
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 12:00 am

### Re: Synthesising Oscillators

Hmm then what do you suggest? (Limiting it to b3s23 is boring lol)

Majestas32

Posts: 524
Joined: November 20th, 2017, 12:22 pm
Location: 'Merica

### Re: Synthesising Oscillators

Majestas32 wrote:Hmm then what do you suggest? (Limiting it to b3s23 is boring lol)

Given how uneven CA results are, I think the very idea of LifeCoin is fundamentally flawed.
mniemiec

Posts: 1021
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 12:00 am

### Re: Synthesising Oscillators

mniemiec wrote:
Majestas32 wrote:Hmm then what do you suggest? (Limiting it to b3s23 is boring lol)

Given how uneven CA results are, I think the very idea of LifeCoin is fundamentally flawed.

That's why Catagolue has, from the very start, SHA256'd the seed before writing it as a 16-by-16 square of cells and simulating it in B3/S23. The two stages of the proof-of-work accomplish orthogonal tasks:

• The SHA256 makes it implausible to reverse-engineer, and makes all strings equally likely to be successful;
• Running the pattern in GoL is much more computationally intensive than the original hash, and makes it less susceptible to efficient FPGA/ASIC implementation.

The other ingredient we need is to be able to measurably control the rarity of solutions, but that's possible because we already have comprehensive statistics from 10^13 soups saying exactly which oscillators/spaceships are common.

I think this is getting somewhat off-topic, so this discussion should be migrated to either the Catagolue discussion thread, or to the old pre-Catagolue CACoin thread, or to the comments section in https://mathoverflow.net/a/277668/39521
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!

calcyman

Posts: 2023
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 4:32 pm

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