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(23,5)c/79 spaceship components

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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby biggiemac » December 9th, 2014, 2:02 pm

All too familiar a story.. I had miscalculated one of the LWSS->stills to have lane change 8 rather than 9, which did match, and then was confused when I couldn't set it up correctly.

I included the blinker in case the filtering of the 4th NE rake left a blinker behind. But if I filter from the blinkers left behind after MWSS synth, the reaction that works best is actually clean. So my only starting SL is a block. The half-HF seemed ideal because multiple lanes could delete the second hive. As we can only send in NE gliders it would actually take 3 to make the variant with the hives at noon and 9. If we turned one hive into a block and had the block absorb gliders that would be probably the best bet, with 4 input gliders.

I'm also hoping to be able to use p79 rakes for this and just have the other half of the salvo vanish on the helix. If necessary I could make p158 rakes and then the whole business of lane matching would be irrelevant.
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby codeholic » December 9th, 2014, 2:19 pm

Please excuse me, if I got confused, but if I got it right, you're going to build a *WSS seed to clean up old tracks, once you build new ones. Why not just clean up the old tracks with a NW rake running on the new tracks, something along these lines: viewtopic.php?p=8462#p8462 ?

EDIT: Btw, can one build new tracks by heisenburning SE gliders in the spaceship stream?
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby dvgrn » December 9th, 2014, 4:23 pm

codeholic wrote:Please excuse me, if I got confused, but if I got it right, you're going to build a *WSS seed to clean up old tracks, once you build new ones.

That wasn't what I thought I understood. Old-track cleanup isn't much of a problem -- I don't actually know about the 316-2-190-263 track, but it looks as if the 31-2 track can drop stuff to absorb those gliders...?

The most recent LWSS idea was to hit an upward p158 LWSS stream with glider streams to produce either a SW glider stream for a "reset" -- i.e., start over with a new Tower of Hanoi southeast of the last one -- or, with some extra cleverness, a double-density line of junk for a new lead Herschel to burn instead of the SW gliders.

This basically the same trick that was done for the original knightship front end, except that the original used two interleaved (non-helix) p158 LWSS streams to get everything started. Now maybe it's possible to get away with only one LWSS, because a line of junk left behind by the first Tower can be shuffled into the right place for a new Tower's lead Herschel to burn on alternate cycles.

-- Did I get all of that right, or at least some of it?

codeholic wrote:EDIT: Btw, can one build new tracks by heisenburning SE gliders in the spaceship stream?

Something along these lines, you mean?
x = 132, y = 253, rule = B3/S23
55bo$54b3o$54bob2o$55b3o$55b2o3$46bo$44bobo$45b2o8$59b3o$59bo2bo$59bo$
59bo$60bobo12$65bo$64b3o$63b2obo$63b3o$64b2o13$59bobo7b3o$60b2o6bo2bo$
60bo10bo$71bo$68bobo12$75bo$74b3o$74bob2o$75b3o$75b2o13$79b3o$79bo2bo$
79bo$79bo$80bobo5$75bo$76bo$74b3o5$85bo$84b3o$83b2obo$83b3o$84b2o13$
89b3o$88bo2bo$91bo$91bo$88bobo12$95bo$94b3o$94bob2o$89bo5b3o$90b2o3b2o
$89b2o12$99b3o$99bo2bo$99bo$99bo$100bobo6$87bo$86bobo$85bo2bo$86b2o3$
105bo$104b3o$103b2obo$103b3o$104b2o13$82bo26b3o$81bobo24bo2bo$80bo2bo
27bo$81b2o28bo$108bobo5$bo$b2o$obo2$15b3o$17bo$16bo$30b2o83bo$31b2o81b
3o$30bo83bob2o$45b2o68b3o$44bobo68b2o$46bo$60bo$60b2o$59bobo$74bo$73bo
bo$73bobo$74bo5$119b3o$119bo2bo$119bo$119bo$120bobo12$125bo$67bo56b3o$
66b3o54b2obo$66bob2o53b3o$67bo2bo53b2o$68b2o$68bo11$129b3o$128bo2bo$
131bo$131bo$128bobo!

I can see how that would work for a double-density LWSS stream, but not so much at p158. But that's just as likely to be my failure of imagination as any real problem...!
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby biggiemac » December 9th, 2014, 6:07 pm

Heisenburning SE gliders in a p79 stream would work as demonstrated, but we can't use SE gliders because they interfere with the syntheses above. If we sent them after the 4th synth it would take well over 10k cells vertically for them to reach. So we use an NE rake.

codeholic wrote:Please excuse me, if I got confused, but if I got it right, you're going to build a *WSS seed to clean up old tracks

The cleanup will use a NW rake, I think you must have misread me earlier. Dave linked to the post with my 31-2 cleanup. I'll see what it takes to clean up the other once a reset is performed, but notice that the 316-2 portion is only 3 rephasings away from 31-2.

The ship, were it to use 2 resets, would only need 12 syntheses: the 6 helix, 2 fanout, 2 hivemaker that have always existed, plus one more for each reset.

I'm basically done with the 4th synth, I'll post when the reset is done too.
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby biggiemac » December 10th, 2014, 1:46 am

This was a nice find: the p79 stream interacts with p158 HFs to make a hive + block combo.

x = 28, y = 21, rule = B3/S23
$21bo$20bobo$20bobo$21bo2$16b2o7b2o$15bo2bo5bo2bo$16b2o7b2o2$21bo$20bo
bo$20bobo$21bo2$3o$2bo$bo$15b2o$16b2o$15bo!


I've found a way to use this to make a p79 hive trail with one p158 LWSS input, but the final NE rake would require explicit construction because its lane is not 0 mod 3.

Side note: I'm curious though, in the interest of being more space efficient.. this reaction lasts quite a while, and I have wondered about period-halving mechanisms from p158 sparks. That is, some p158 reaction that effectively produces p79 output. Could anyone use gencols or the like (I have no familiarity) to see if there is any way to add a LWSS from below this reaction to give two burnable stills separated by (5,23)? It would save a forward rake and some space, and there's enough opportunity that such a long shot could have a chance. Any other debris would probably be fine.
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby codeholic » December 10th, 2014, 5:37 am

biggiemac wrote:Heisenburning SE gliders in a p79 stream would work as demonstrated, but we can't use SE gliders because they interfere with the syntheses above. If we sent them after the 4th synth it would take well over 10k cells vertically for them to reach. So we use an NE rake.

My bad. What about heisenburning NE gliders?
x = 104, y = 95, rule = B3/S23
b2o$obo$2bo5$30b3o$32bo$31bo$11b2o$10bobo$12bo$60b2o$59bobo$61bo2$40b
3o$42bo$41bo4$70b2o$69bobo8b3o$71bo8bo2bo$80bo$80bo$81bobo29$90b3o$89b
o2bo$92bo$92bo$89bobo29$100b3o$100bo2bo$100bo$100bo$101bobo!

After that the only thing you need to do is to pull every second block.
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby biggiemac » December 10th, 2014, 7:40 am

That does look nice. However, the space required to set up p158 rakes like that and to then pull the blocks would probably cost more than synthesizing one more LWSS later down the road. I have thus far managed to use only the p79 rake available, lane restriction and all, with one p158 N LWSS stream. This has been in the interest of ease and saving space, and it is still about 1000 cells below the LWSS synth above it by the point where a Herschel could run.

Also every NE rake travels 8000 cells at this point, which means it is a substantial part of the population. Haven't yet reached 100k but I surpassed 90k in setting up the reset.
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby biggiemac » December 15th, 2014, 9:59 pm

This week has been an overwhelming mix of grad school apps and finals (gasp, revealing my age here). However, in the mix of things I have gotten this far with the reset. I have a H burning on the new track using only one LWSS stream. Pop still under 100k, height just over 11k.
knightship four synth.zip
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby codeholic » December 16th, 2014, 3:08 am

Why did you use northbound LWSS instead of at least eastbound one?

Anyway, I'm still pretty sure there is a way to build a new track with heisenburning at most 4 synchronised NE gliders in the spaceship stream. I'll try to find one.
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby codeholic » December 16th, 2014, 3:37 am

Here you are:
x = 234, y = 161, rule = B3/S23
65b3o$67bo$66bo4$95b2o$94bobo$96bo5$124b3o$126bo$125bo4$154b2o$153bobo
$155bo3$191b3o$190bo2bo$183b3o7bo$185bo7bo$184bo5bobo28$5b3o$7bo193b3o
$6bo194bo2bo$10b3o188bo$12bo188bo$11bo190bobo$35b2o$34bobo$36bo$40b2o$
39bobo$41bo2$64b3o111b2o$66bo111b2o$65bo$69b3o$71bo$70bo$94b2o$93bobo$
95bo$99b2o$98bobo$100bo2$123b3o$125bo$124bo$128b3o$130bo$129bo$2o151b
2o$b2o149bobo$o153bo56b3o$158b2o50bo2bo$157bobo53bo$159bo53bo$30bo179b
obo$30b2o$29bobo5$59b2o$60b2o$59bo4$89bo$89b2o$88bobo5$118b2o$119b2o$
118bo51bo$169bobo$169bo2bo$170b2o$148bo$148b2o$147bobo$221b3o$221bo2bo
$221bo$221bo$222bobo7$172bo$170b2o$171b2o13$157b3o$158bo$158b3o5$231b
3o$230bo2bo$233bo$233bo$230bobo!

Actually, only three of them are synchronised.
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby dvgrn » December 16th, 2014, 11:06 am

Here's a quick question about the inevitability of the Tower of Hanoi triangles --

I notice that p158 LWSS streams and singleton NE glider streams can cross safely:

x = 311, y = 206, rule = B3/S23
b2o$4o$2ob2o$2b2o44$71b2o$69b2ob2o$69b4o$70b2o42$139b2o$138b4o$138b2ob
2o$140b2o43$13b3o$15bo193b2o$14bo192b2ob2o$207b4o$208b2o2$43b2o$42bobo
$44bo5$72b3o$74bo$73bo4$102b2o$101bobo$103bo5$131b3o$133bo$132bo4$161b
2o$160bobo$162bo5$190b3o$192bo$191bo4$220b2o$219bobo55b2o$221bo54b4o$
276b2ob2o$278b2o3$249b3o$251bo$250bo4$279b2o$278bobo$280bo5$308b3o$
310bo$309bo!

I probably wasn't paying attention properly in the early design stages... I know slow-salvo constructions don't work for northbound *WSS, because the lanes shift east too quickly. But is there any possibility that eastbound LWSS and some LWSS-permeable multi-glider NE salvo might produce a workable northbound *WSS?

The odds are probably pretty low, but it's certainly a searchable space. Is it even worth looking for? Or are the synchronization issues going to be so awful anyway that there's no point in even trying to overlap two or more of the big Tower of Hanoi triangles?
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby biggiemac » December 16th, 2014, 2:36 pm

I used N LWSS for space, joining an E LWSS rake would take far more height than adding one more construction post-reset. I'll check out your heisenburning idea when I'm at a computer, right now I'm just on mobile.

I have attempted the overlap with present technology and found it to be impossible. If there were synth recipes that used more crafty NE rakes it would be possible but still likely a pain to do anything with..

Edit:
Codeholic, that looks like exactly what I wanted at some earlier point, with the added benefit of needing no LWSS input. It would be possible to start with the blocks left after the LWSS synth. Thanks for the find. However, I think I might have an idea for something even better, if I can make a cheap p79 E LWSS rake.

First, there is a lot of unused space on the rear track during the 4th synth. If we make a p79 E LWSS rake and turn one of the rephasings of the front track into a rake, we can build a string of p79 stills inside the triangle of the 4th synth. It is certainly possible for the NE rake to pass through them. (Far easier with the LWSS recipe than with the MWSS recipe). This will allow a rephasing to overlap with a synth.
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby biggiemac » December 16th, 2014, 11:12 pm

For experimentation purposes, here is a LWSS p79 rake.
x = 298, y = 438, rule = B3/S23
258bo$258bobo$258b2o6$248bo$246b6o$246b2o2b2o2$250bo40bobo$246b2o2bo
40b2o$246b2o3bo40bo$250bo$248bobo$249bo23$257bo$258bo$256b3o5$271bo$
270b3o$269bo2b2o$273bo$273b2o$228bo46bo13bo$226b2o44b4o12bo$227b2o43b
2o14b3o7$278bo2b2o$282b2o$281b2o$260bo$260bobo14b2o2b2o$260b2o21bo$
277b4o$279bo2bo5$264bo$263bobo$263bobo$264bo10$207bo$206b3o$205b2o2bo
2$209b2o$209b2o$208bo2bo$207b3o3$259bo$258bobo$258bobo$259bo5$196bo$
195bo61bobo$195b3o59b2o$235bobo20bo$235b2o$236bo6$224bobo$224bo2bo$
223bo3b2o$223bo$254bo$223bo2b3o24bobo$223b2o28bobo$225b3o26bo$225b3o
12$223bo$222bobo$222bobo13bo$223bo13b3o$236bo2b2o$236b4o$239bobo$239bo
2bo6bo$239b3o6bobo$238bobo7bobo$238bobo8bo$238b3o$172bo60bo$170b2o62b
2o$171b2o60b2o8$226bo$218bo7bobo$204bo12bobo6b2o$204bobo10bobo$204b2o
12bo4$244bo$243bobo$243bobo$244bo13$151bo61bo$150b3o59bobo$149b2o2bo
58bobo$213bo$153b2o$153b2o$152bo2bo$151b3o85bo$238bobo$238bobo$239bo8$
140bo$139bo61bobo$139b3o59b2o$179bobo20bo$179b2o$136bo43bo27bo$135b3o
69bobo$134b2o2bo68bobo$138bo69bo$137bo$133bo$133bobo32bobo$133b2o33bo
2bo62bo$167bo3b2o60bobo$167bo65bobo$234bo$167bo2b3o$167b2o$169b3o$169b
3o9$203bo$202bobo$202bobo$167bo35bo$166bobo$166bobo13bo$167bo13b3o$
180bo2b2o44bo$180b4o44bobo$183bobo42bobo$183bo2bo42bo$183b3o$182bobo$
144bo37bobo$142bobo37b3o$143b2o32bo$178b2o$177b2o6$198bo$197bobo$108bo
bo59bo26bobo$108b2o52bo7bobo25bo$109bo38bo12bobo6b2o$148bobo10bobo$
148b2o12bo$224bo$223bobo$223bobo$224bo13$193bo$192bobo$192bobo$193bo$
152b2o3b2o$151bo2bo2b2o$151bo2bo$152b2o65bo$90bo127bobo$89b3o126bobo$
88bo2b2o126bo$87b5o$87b5o$90bo$90bobo$90b2obo$91bobo$92b3o$92bobo$90b
4o$90b3o$91bo$145bobo$145b2o41bo$123bobo20bo40bobo$123b2o62bobo$124bo
63bo$147b2o3b2o$146bo2bo2b2o$146bo2bo$147b2o65bo$77bo135bobo$77bobo32b
obo98bobo$77b2o33bo2bo98bo$111bo3b2o$111bo2$111bo2b3o14b3o$111b2o$113b
3o15bobo$113b3o18bo$130bo3bo2$130bo2b2o45b3o$179bo2bo$179bo2bo$131bo
46bo2bo$131bo46bo2bo$130bo51b2o$131bob2o47b2o$135bo6b2o3b2o31bo3bo$
128bo4bo7bo2bo2b2o34b2o$141bo2bo40bo$129bobo10b2o36bo3bo24bo$129b3o49b
3o24bobo$208bobo$209bo6$106bo30bo$104bobo31b2o$105b2o14bo15b2o$122b2o
44bobo$121b2o45b2o$169bo6$137b2o3b2o$52bobo59bo21bo2bo2b2o$52b2o60bobo
19bo2bo$53bo38bo21b2o21b2o65bo$92bobo108bobo$92b2o109bobo$204bo15$136b
2o$136b2o$195bobo$196b2o$196bo$199bo$198bobo$198bobo$199bo$131bo$130bo
bo$119bobo9bo$120b2o$120bo23bo$143bo$143b3o7$28bo$27bo61bobo39b2o$27b
3o59b2o40b2o$67bobo20bo$67b2o$68bo5$126bo$125bobo$126bo12$148b4o$147bo
3bo$151bo$147bo2bo6$121bo$120bobo$121bo8$4bo60bo$2b2o60bo$3b2o38bo20b
3o$42bo$42b3o!
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby biggiemac » December 18th, 2014, 7:03 pm

A much more practical reset. Overlaps with the final synth, no additional N LWSS used, and the cluster is already forming.
knightship reset.zip
(96.97 KiB) Downloaded 216 times

I'm not sure, should I keep the rear clusters around to contribute rakes, or vanish them to reduce pop? I know that the front cluster can do everything. It could be interesting to have an E LWSS rake from the back trails and a NE rake from the front do the next synth. But for space, it might actually be better to have the front do the next synth and a LWSS rake from the back do the one after that.. The good news is that the final height will be closer to 40k than to 770k! (Still trying to squeeze out what I can to make it smaller than the parallel HBK, for record purposes).
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby Freywa » December 18th, 2014, 9:44 pm

biggiemac wrote:A much more practical reset.
OK, I must ask you biggiemac, what is your real name? Since Conway's Life is a mathematical recreation with serious consequences for cellular automata, it is important that your real name be known.
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby biggiemac » December 18th, 2014, 10:49 pm

Sure.. My name is Brett Berger. I'm living in California, getting a B.S. in physics this spring.
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby biggiemac » December 19th, 2014, 3:51 pm

Fully reset! I opted to clean up the back and make the front do all the work, which went very smoothly. I got lucky with the HF as 7-glider absorber. The cleanup reaction for the 316-2-190-263 was more for fun than optimization, so it could probably be improved. However, by cleaning up the 31-2 so far in advance like I did, I almost certainly reduced the horizontal extent of the final bounding box. So there's that.
knightship new cluster.zip
(112.22 KiB) Downloaded 225 times

I think two resets in total, for 4-3-3 synth per set, is a good plan. It will give each set about a third of the total height, as the 3s will have a larger initial distance from the helix than the 4. Now that everything is in place, next up is the 5th synth!
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby codeholic » December 19th, 2014, 6:11 pm

Keep up the great work! I guess, there are going to be no more surprises, so you're on the home straight!
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby biggiemac » December 23rd, 2014, 6:30 am

No surprises, but a new idea.. I was frustrated with how much height I was spending in the early part of the new triangle building and destroying a new 31-2 track for the first E LWSS rake. I looked into building a frozen (all stills, gliders frozen as hives in this ship) LWSS synth directly. For comparison, the old approach was to build a frozen 31-2 track and burn it as the correct lane to serve as a LWSS rake.

It would take way too much work to build the g + 3-block, so I stuck with the 2g + block, and this is what came out. It's shorter than building a new track and a rake. It's shown being burned as closely as possible.
x = 407, y = 806, rule = B3/S23
349bobo$347bo4bo$347bo4bo$351b2o2$347b2o2b2o$347b2o2b2o$348bob3o$351bo
$350bo24$357bobo$358b2o$358bo9$328bo$327bo$327b3o$403bobo$403b2o$404bo
26$373bo$374bo10bo$372b3o9b3o$383bo2b2o$382b5o$382b5o$385bo$385bobo$
385b2obo$386bobo$387b3o$387bobo$304bo80b4o12bo$302b2o81b3o12bo$303b2o
81bo13b3o$299b3o$299bo2bo$298bo3bo94bo$298b3o2bo92b3o$299b4o92b2o2bo$
399bo$398bo$296bobo95bo$296b2o96bobo$297bo74bo21b2o$372bobo$372b2o5$
378bo$377bobo$377bobo$378bo19$307bobo$308b2o63bo$308bo63bobo$372bobo$
373bo7$272bo$271bo97bobo$271b3o95b2o$347bobo20bo$347b2o$348bo8$368bo$
367bobo$367bobo$368bo7$332bo$331b3o$254b3o74bob2o$253bo2bo73b2o$253bo
3bo72b2o$252b2obobo72b2o$252b2ob2o77bo$253b3o77b2o$323bo7bobo$324bo5bo
2bo$322b3o6bobo$331b3o$254b2obo73b2obo$254bobobo72bo2bo28bo$257bo74bo
29bobo$362bobo$363bo2$258bo$256bobo$257b2o76bo8bo$336b2o6b2o$335b2o7b
3o$344b2o$344b2o$345bo$346bobo$347bo2$240b2o$239bo2bo95bo$239bo2bo95bo
bo$239bo76bo21b2o$242bo73bobo$240b3o73b2o$242b2o$243bo81bo32bo$324bobo
30bobo$324bobo30bobo$235bo89bo32bo$233b2o$234b2o18$320bo32bo$319bobo
30bobo$271bobo45bobo30bobo$272b2o46bo32bo$272bo7$250bo$251b2o$250b2o$
313bobo$313b2o$289bo24bo$288bobo$288bob2o$290bo$211b2o$211bob2o76bob2o
$213b2o77b2o$213b2o100bo32bo$210b2o102bobo30bobo$286bo27bobo30bobo$
213b2o69b2o29bo32bo$285b2o4$299bo$203bo94bobo$202bo94b2ob2o$202b3o93bo
2bo$298bo3bo$298bo$199bo$198b3o$197b2o2bo82bo13b2o$201bo81bobo13bo$
200bo82bobo$196bo87bo11bo$196bobo97bob2ob2o$196b2o97b2ob2ob2o$296bobo$
297bo12bo32bo$309bobo30bobo$309bobo30bobo$310bo32bo5$266bo$264bobo$
265b2o6$279bo$224bo53bobo$225bo52bobo$223b3o53bo$282bo$282bobo$260bo
21b2o$260bobo42bo32bo$260b2o42bobo30bobo$304bobo30bobo$305bo32bo$207bo
$205bobo$206b2o7$173b2o$173bobo$175b2o$173bobo$173bo95b2o3b2o$173bo2bo
91bo2bo2b2o$268bo2bo$175b2o92b2o3$300bo32bo$299bobo30bobo$167bo74b3o
54bobo30bobo$167bo74bo2bo54bo32bo$161b2o78bo3bo$161bob2o76b4o$164b2o
76bo$164bobo$161bo3b2o$165bo2$242b2ob2o$158bobo81bob3o$158b2o$159bo78b
o$239b2o$238b2o5bo$246bo9b2obo4b2o3b2o$244b3o7bo4bo3bo2bo2b2o$253bo5bo
3bo2bo$253bo10b2o$252b2ob2obo$252b2obo2bo$254b4o37bo32bo$220bobo32b3o
36bobo30bobo$221b2o71bobo30bobo$221bo8b2o20bo42bo32bo$230b2o18b2o$232b
o18b2o$230b2o$230b2o2$232b2o$185bo46b2o$186b2o$185b2o3$222bobo14bo$
222b2o14b3o$223bo13b5o17b2o3b2o$237b2ob3o15bo2bo2b2o$238b2ob2o15bo2bo$
171bobo66bo18b2o$172b2o43b2o$172bo44bobo$219b2o69bo32bo$218bo70bobo30b
obo$216bobo70bobo30bobo$215b2o73bo32bo$215b3o4$134bo$133bo$133b3o69bo$
205b2o47bo$204bo2bo44bobo$205bobo45b2o$204bo2bo$204bo2bo$204bobo20bo$
205b3o18b3o25b2o3b2o$225bo2b2o23bo2bo2b2o$225b3o25bo2bo$236bo17b2o$
237bo$235b3o$225bo59bo32bo$228bo55bobo30bobo$225bo3bo54bobo30bobo$226b
2ob2o54bo32bo4$203bo$202bobo20b2o2b2o$202bobo20bo2b2o$203bo14bo9bo$
217b3o4b2o$216b2o2bo2$220b2o$220b2o$187bo31bo2bo24bo$188bo29b3o25bobo$
186b3o57bobo$113b3o96bobo32bo$112bo2bo97b2o$112b2obo97bo$116b2o$116b2o
162bo32bo$115bo2bo160bobo30bobo$114bo164bobo30bobo$114b3o163bo32bo$
115bo$207bo$206bo$185bo12bo7b3o$184bo12bobo$184b3o10bobo$198bo5$102bob
o$102b2o138bo$103bo137bobo6bo$241bobo7b2o$242bo7b2o4$275bo32bo$274bobo
30bobo$274bobo30bobo$275bo32bo6$191b2o$191b2o2$166b3o$165bo2bo$165b2ob
o2$237bo$236bobo$165b2o69bobo$165b4o68bo$166bo2bo$167bobo$167bobo$127b
obo140bo32bo$128b2o139bobo30bobo$128bo40bo13bo85bobo30bobo$167bobo11b
2o87bo32bo$168b2o12b2o$178b3o$178bo2bo$177bo3bo$177b3o2bo$178b4o4b2o$
186b2o$78bo$77bo97bobo$77b3o95b2o$153bobo20bo89bo$153b2o109bobo$154bo
77bo32b2o$231bobo$231bobo$232bo$148b2o$148bobo$150b2o$149bo115bo32bo$
147bobo114bobo30bobo$146b2o116bobo30bobo$146b3o116bo32bo4$62b3o$62bobo
$62bo2bo115b2o$63b3o115b2o$63b3o$61bo2bo$64bo$61bo$62b2o94bo$61b3o93b
3o67bo$61b2o80bo12bo2b2o65bobo$60bobo2b2o75bobo11b3o67bobo$60bobo2b2o
75bobo82bo$60b3o80bo2$156bo$159bo100bo32bo$156bo3bo98bobo30bobo$157b2o
b2o97bobo30bobo$260bo32bo3$68bo$66bobo87b2o2b2o$67b2o87bo2b2o$159bo16b
2o$155b2o19b2o$279bobo$280b2o$280bo3$222bo$138bo82bobo$46bobo88bobo4bo
76bobo$46b2o89bobo4bobo75bo$47bo74bo15bo5b2o$122bobo$122b2o$255bo32bo$
254bobo30bobo$254bobo30bobo$255bo32bo6$171b2o$171b2o6$217bo$133bo82bob
o$132bobo81bobo$132bobo82bo$133bo3$250bo$249bobo$249bobo$81bobo166bo$
82b2o$82bo4$166b2o$25bo140b2o$24b3o$24bob2o$25bo2bo$26b2o$26bo92bobo$
97b3o19b2o91bo$100bo19bo7bo82bobo$97b3o27bobo81bobo$127bobo82bo$128bo$
100b2o$100b2o$245bo$15bo228bobo$15bobo226bobo$15b2o75bo152bo$90b2o$91b
2o13b3o$106b3o$106bo2bo$107b3o$107b2o52b2o$161b2o3$3bo$2bobo$bo3bo86bo
$2bo2bo85bobo113bo$2bo2bo85bobo29bo82bobo$3bobo86bo29bobo81bobo$122bob
o82bo$123bo3$240bo$239bobo$239bobo$240bo6$38bo117b2o$36bobo117b2o$37b
2o4$87bo$86bobo113bo$86bobo29bo82bobo$10bo76bo29bobo81bobo$11bo105bobo
82bo$9b3o106bo$88bo$88bobo$66bo21b2o145bo$66bobo165bobo$66b2o166bobo$
235bo5$56bo$54b6o91b2o$54b2o2b2o91b2o2$58bo$54b2o2bo$54b2o3bo$58bo23bo
$56bobo22bobo113bo$57bo23bobo29bo82bobo$82bo29bobo81bobo$112bobo82bo$
113bo3$230bo$229bobo$229bobo$230bo2$54bo$53bobo$53bobo12b3o$54bo13bo2b
o$67bo3bo74b2o$67b2o77b2o$68bobo$69b2o2bo$69bo2bo$69bo$24bo43b2ob2o4bo
$25b2o42bobo4bobo113bo$24b2o39bo4bo5bobo29bo82bobo$66bo10bo29bobo81bob
o$64b3o40bobo82bo$108bo3$225bo$224bobo$224bobo$225bo$58bo$49bo6b2o$36b
o11bobo6b2o$34b2o12bobo$35b2o12bo$141b2o$141b2o6$187bo$103bo82bobo$69b
3o30bobo81bobo$69bo2bo29bobo82bo$73bo29bo$70b3o2$220bo$219bobo$219bobo
$220bo2$44bo$43bobo$43bobo$44bo15bobo$60b2o74b2o$61bo74b2o2$40bo$38bob
o$39b2o2$182bo$98bo82bobo$97bobo81bobo$97bobo82bo$98bo$178b3o$177bo2bo
$177b2o2bo33bo$30bo149b2o32bobo$29bob2o181bobo$10bo20b2o144bo37bo$10bo
bo17b3o142b2o$10b2o27bo136b2o$34b2o2bobo$33b3o2bobo$39bo$131b2o$26bo
104b2o$25bo$25b3o24b3o$54bo$53bo$67b2o$68b2o11bobo$67bo14b2o9bo$82bo9b
obo$92bobo$93bo3$210bo$209bobo$209bobo$210bo6$126b2o$126b2o$186bo$187b
2o$186b2o6$77b2o$77b2o6b2o$85bobo$87bo$85bobo63bo53bo$85b2o64bobo50bob
o$86b2o63b2o51bobo$87b2o116bo$87b2o5$77bo43b2o$77bobo41b2o$77b2o21$
116b2o$116b2o7$98bo$96bobo$97b2o$126bobo$126b2o$127bo7$52bobo$52b2o$
53bo!


Unfortunately, it's further from clean. I already have to include two hives in front of the main synth to catch debris, there was no way to have one catch both. More problematically, the cleanup afterward involves managing an alternating stream of HF & gliders. I think there could be a clever way to use the p158 gliders to filter a stream that turns the HF into two separated blocks, and a chance that those blocks could be picked off in the normal way (they are on the same lane as p79 blocks as far as NE rakes are concerned, but I haven't checked whether there is a pair of vanishing reactions that work with normal SE rakes - by this point my thoughts have probably stopped making sense) ..but if I am spending that much height beneath the synth that's just as bad, at least in the early part of the triangle.

I don't really want to go back to the beginning with this to see if I can shave off a few hundred vertical cells and some pop with this, but I will be considering this for the rest of the ship. I'll take it case by case to see which is better for height.

Something I think would be a great space-saver if I had the computational power on my side, determining on each helix synthesis if it were possible and more economical to create a p79 E LWSS rake instead and filter it out on the stills left behind after the last synthesis.. My approach when building this by hand starts by looking at where the gliders intersect those stills in order to determine where the E LWSS go, so no way would I be able to try out all the options. I think I will complete the ship as is first, and then try to see what optimizing it via code would entail.
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.
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biggiemac
 
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby biggiemac » December 24th, 2014, 6:48 am

The 5th synth is done, and was quite a rollercoaster!
lucky unlucky 5th synth.zip
(123.73 KiB) Downloaded 222 times

You wouldn't tell how many things went wrong and went right by looking at it, so here's the story.

So in general, once I figure out the NE glider lane, the LWSS options are spaced out by 52 vertical cells. The exception is that ones that crash into the p158 block that filters the NE rake are not options.
Unlucky: as posted, the best the new LWSS rake could accomplish was the topmost of 3 LWSS that crash, so I had to get more creative with absorbers or it would be a swing of 208 height. (This was still miles above the old rake's best option).
Lucky: I found a way to clean up the rear cluster that left a blinker, saving one beehive absorber synthesis. Tweaking the LWSS rake I posted yesterday, that bought me not just the extra squeeze I needed, but allowed even the next LWSS rake, for 260 height better than expected!
Unlucky: This LWSS rake wouldn't pass through the front track without stalling it past the point where it would be able to make the appropriate NE rake.
Lucky: Since this is the first synth off a reset, the 316-2-190-263 track wasn't yet fully burned, and I had the option to get creative with how I rephased it so long as all the tracks agreed mod 19 with their end goals. Burning a 301 track instead of 263, I used the block, suppress-out option and rephased the lower track pair independently of the top 3 using a block pull sequence. This allowed me to rephase the top 3 with the 69 track's suppress in on top of the usual 2 track's rephasing. Everything passed through and was prepared for the NE rake.
Unlucky: using the tighter E LWSS rake, the garbage left behind prevented me from being able to synthesize hives on the back trail to support the SE glider rake that kicks back the top glider on the NE rake.
Lucky: The p158 HF->two blocks reaction puts the blocks in the right place to appear as p79 if approached from NE or SW, and works with the preexisting track setup.

After trying many unsuccessful strategies to make the SE rake work, I got incredibly lucky on a longshot. I was able to set up one last beehive in front of the entire LWSS rake, turn the blinker into a block instead of vanishing it, and with a bit of coaxing this track did all the things I had been needing to accomplish! It didn't interfere with the E LWSS, it set off a block pull sequence that allowed it to rephase without glider output and it flawlessly produced the SE rake and then vanished on the staggered blocks.

So this is 260 height better than if I hadn't fought for it, and the rear track is at 31-2 and ready without any more garbage to clean up with plenty of height to set up the next rake in an optimum location.

I couldn't see a computer handling all that in automatic assembly, or feeling so rewarded when something works!


Edit: in the file I posted, the block filter is in the wrong place towards the bottom. The trail leaves behind blinkers, when actually it should leave behind blocks. The error is near the point where the LWSS cross, and the NE rake runs into it after about 2200 generations. Above/after that point it is correct. I found the error out the hard way when setting up the 6th synth..
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.
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