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Blockic Seeds

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

Blockic Seeds

Postby knightlife » June 23rd, 2013, 1:31 pm

What is possible with only one glider and a pile of blocks? Anything that glider synthesis can do, a blockic seed can do, although it may be a much larger starting pattern. But some Blockic seeds are very compact and can be more convenient because blocks can wait to be triggered at any time by a single glider. Blockic synthesis may be able to produce objects that glider synthesis can't, although it is an open problem whether glider synthesis can produce any desired still life result.

For example here is a way to produce an unusual still life with 5 blocks:
x = 21, y = 27, rule = LifeHistory
8.2A$8.2A7$7.2A4.2A$7.2A4.2A$2A$2A14.2A$16.2A12$18.3A$18.A$19.A!

It would take a lot of synchronized gliders to produce the same result.

Blockic seeds for LWSS, MWSS, and HWSS are scattered about in other topics, so I have collected the best ones here:
x = 369, y = 212, rule = LifeHistory
.D9.D7.D3.6D4.6D199.2A$.D9.D7.D3.D9.D204.2A$.D9.D7.D3.D9.D131.A$.D9.D
7.D3.D9.D132.A$.D9.D3.D3.D3.6D4.6D125.3A$.D9.D3.D3.D3.6D4.6D57.A$.D9.
D3.D3.D8.D9.D58.A3.2A$.D9.D2.D.D2.D8.D9.D56.3A3.2A$.6D4.4D.4D8.D9.D
295.A$.6D5.2D3.2D4.6D4.6D296.A$96.2A223.2A10.3A31.2A$87.2A7.2A223.2A
44.2A$87.2A176.2A$82.2A181.2A94.2A$82.2A277.2A$241.A86.2A2.2A$181.2A
59.A85.2A2.2A$86.2A88.2A3.2A57.3A16.2A$86.2A88.2A81.2A$172.2A$172.2A$
182.2A75.2A81.2A$167.2A13.2A59.2A14.2A81.2A$167.2A74.2A3$257.2A$257.
2A55$180.2A$180.2A3$80.BA80.A13.2A$79.B.BA80.A12.2A$80.3A78.3A24.2A$
188.2A$.2D3.2D3.D7.D3.6D4.6D$4D.4D2.D7.D3.D9.D$D2.D.D2.D2.D7.D3.D9.D$
D3.D3.D2.D7.D3.D9.D$D3.D3.D2.D3.D3.D3.6D4.6D$D3.D3.D2.D3.D3.D3.6D4.6D
53.2A$D7.D2.D3.D3.D8.D9.D53.2A$D7.D2.D2.D.D2.D8.D9.D$D7.D2.4D.4D8.D9.
D$D7.D3.2D3.2D4.6D4.6D131.2A$158.2A10.2A$79.2A77.2A$79.2A$100.2A$100.
2A$75.2A$75.2A3$167.2A$167.2A2$101.2A$101.2A57$73.A$74.A$72.3A8$.D4.D
4.D7.D3.6D4.6D$.D4.D4.D7.D3.D9.D$.D4.D4.D7.D3.D9.D$.D4.D4.D7.D3.D9.D
44.2A13.2A$.6D4.D3.D3.D3.6D4.6D39.2A13.2A$.6D4.D3.D3.D3.6D4.6D$.D4.D
4.D3.D3.D8.D9.D$.D4.D4.D2.D.D2.D8.D9.D63.2A$.D4.D4.4D.4D8.D9.D63.2A$.
D4.D5.2D3.2D4.6D4.6D6$100.2A$100.2A2$80.2A$80.2A6$94.2A$94.2A4$84.2A$
84.2A!


As far as I know it takes at least 5 blocks to produce a clean spaceship, but 4 blocks seems possible.

It may take extra blocks to do cleanup:
aircraft carrier:
x = 84, y = 28, rule = B3/S23
bo49bo$2bo49bo$3o47b3o$31b2o$31b2o$69b2o$19b2o48b2o$19b2o$66b2o$66b2o
16$32b2o48b2o$17b2o3b2o8b2o33b2o3b2o8b2o$17b2o3b2o43b2o3b2o!


pulsar with cleanup the hard way:
x = 29, y = 36, rule = LifeHistory
.A$2.A$3A6$19.2A$19.2A3$20.2A$20.2A5$10.2A$10.2A3$18.2A$18.2A$27.2A$
27.2A9$23.2A$23.2A!

pulsar without cleanup the easy way:
x = 25, y = 21, rule = LifeHistory
A$.2A$2A13$23.2A$23.2A3$23.2A$23.2A!


It is desirable to minimize the number of blocks needed, as with the pulsar.

8-block paperclip:
x = 29, y = 30, rule = LifeHistory
16.2A$16.2A4$2A$2A$10.2A$10.2A$3.2A$3.2A14.2A6.2A$19.2A6.2A12$21.3A$
21.A$22.A$2.2A$2.2A$9.2A$9.2A!


3-block glider shift to a different lane:
x = 20, y = 24, rule = LifeHistory
10.2A$10.2A6$2A$2A9$7.2A$7.2A3$17.3A$17.A$18.A!


5-block glider shift by a half-track:
x = 29, y = 24, rule = LifeHistory
.A$2.A$3A6$19.2A$19.2A3$20.2A$20.2A5$10.2A15.2A$10.2A15.2A3$18.2A$18.
2A!


Post any interesting Blockic seeds or improvements in this thread.
Blockic seeds that result in multiple gliders should be posted in the Blockic Splitters thread.

EDIT:
Blockic seeds are better if the blocks are not too close to each other. That way the seed itself is more easily constructed. Two empty cells between blocks is good. The Seeds of Destruction program does this for you.
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby Mats » June 24th, 2013, 2:53 pm

knightlife wrote:For example here is a way to produce an unusual still life with 5 blocks:

It works just as well with 4 blocks:
x = 21, y = 27, rule = B3/S23
8b2o$8b2o7$7b2o4b2o$7b2o4b2o$2o$2o13$18b3o$18bo$19bo!

It's really a pseudo still life though.
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby Extrementhusiast » June 24th, 2013, 6:51 pm

This doesn't use entirely blocks, but it still produces a HWSS from four still lifes:
x = 15, y = 18, rule = B3/S23
5b2o$4bo2bo$5bobo$6bo$12bo$11bobo$11bobo$2o10bo$2o7$13b2o$5b2o5b2o$5b
2o7bo!
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby knightlife » June 28th, 2013, 4:43 am

Extrementhusiast wrote:produces a HWSS

NIce. Not Blockic but a quick and compact reaction (14x14 BB if cleanup block is moved closer).
x = 44, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
5b2o28b2o$4bo2bo26bo2bo$5bobo27bobo$6bo29bo$12bo29bo$11bobo27bobo$11bo
bo27bobo$2o10bo17b2o10bo$2o28b2o3$9b2o28b2o$2o6b2o21b2o5b2o$2o8bo20b2o
7bo!
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby knightlife » July 11th, 2013, 5:51 am

Convert LWSS to glider:
x = 23, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
5b2o$5b2o2$2o17bo$2o16bo$18bo3bo$18b4o!
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby Sokwe » July 11th, 2013, 6:12 am

knightlife wrote:Convert LWSS to glider

Inspired by this, here is a simple stable MWSS to glider converter:
x = 43, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
35b2o$35bobob2obo$37bobob2o$37b2o$20bo$b3o14bo3bo$5o18bo16b2o$3ob2o12b
o4bo16b2o$3b2o14b5o!
-Matthias Merzenich
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby knightlife » July 11th, 2013, 7:21 am

Sokwe wrote:Inspired by this

In 16 minutes! And the glider synthesis?

Any stable G ---> xWSS can now be made into a stable reflecting/converting MWSS ---> xWSS
(x = L, M, or H)
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby codeholic » July 11th, 2013, 8:13 am

knightlife wrote:And the glider synthesis?

http://web.archive.org/web/200610161444 ... 13-187.rle
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby knightlife » July 14th, 2013, 1:34 pm

Here is a 7-glider synthesis using a different still life and borrowing from your synthesis:
x = 115, y = 60, rule = B3/S23
112bo$100bobo8bo$100b2o9b3o$101bo25$2bo$o3bo$5bo$o4bo$b5o8$56b2o$57b2o
$56bo2$110bo$100b3o6b2o$100bo8bobo$101bo7$112b2o$112bobo$112bo$61b3o$
63bo$62bo!
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby knightlife » July 14th, 2013, 2:51 pm

2G ---> LWSS (if only these blocks were catalysts)
x = 20, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
17bo$17bobo$2bo14b2o$3b2o$2b2o4$2o$2o3$4b2o$4b2o!

If a solution is found, then LWSS guns could be made with two glider guns instead of three.
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby Extrementhusiast » July 14th, 2013, 4:35 pm

knightlife wrote:If a solution is found, then LWSS guns could be made with two glider guns instead of three.


Actually, it only takes one right now: gun->glider->Herschel->LWSS. But the minimum possible period is currently quite high. (So two would be more useful.)
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby knightlife » July 14th, 2013, 9:36 pm

Large patterns many times contain LWSS guns within them that I notice still use the 3-glider synthesis of an LWSS (although there are many clever ways to avoid that type of synthesis in periodic circuitry). A 2-glider synthesis could be useful if the necessary catalyst itself has a simple enough synthesis and the recovery period is low enough (low enough to handle p30 streams would be nice)... I realize this is a tall order. It would probably be better to spend more time searching for a small (50 x 50 or less) stable G ---> LWSS than a catalyst for the converter posted above. It would certainly be more useful.
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby knightlife » July 14th, 2013, 10:37 pm

Blockic 90 degree reflector for LWSS:
x = 26, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
14b2o$14b2o2$o2bo$4bo$o3bo$b4o15b2o$20b2o2b2o$24b2o3$20b2o$20b2o!
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby dvgrn » July 15th, 2013, 12:13 am

knightlife wrote:It would probably be better to spend more time searching for a small (50 x 50 or less) stable G ---> LWSS than a catalyst for the converter posted above. It would certainly be more useful.

Or a similarly small stable Herschel-to-LWSS, more likely. I keep seeing spontaneous LWSSes appear from slight modifications of traveling B-heptominoes -- it seems really surprising that a direct H->LWSS hasn't cropped up by this time, since there wouldn't be any need for a "bait" still life to get things going.

Glider-to-LWSS is a bit harder, because you can't seem to make adjustments to a passing glider with stable conduits the way you can with a Herschel. There aren't any good sparks to get hold of... so you can either kill the glider with an eater, catch it as a boat-bit, or smash it into something small and basically just cross your fingers that you can get whatever-it-is back again in the same place.

Another search that would be really interesting with Bellman would be a converter for a switch-engine 'swimmer' -- turn it into a glider, Herschel, or *WSS. The best I could come up with in antediluvian times -- sometime in early 5 B.B. [Before Bellman] -- was this:

x = 159, y = 118, rule = B3/S23
120bo$119bobo$120bo2$118b5o$117bo4bo$116bo2bo$22b2o92bob2o27bo$21bobo
87bob2obo5bo10b2o10b3o$22bo88b2obobo4bobo9b2o9bo$82b2o30bob2o2bo2bo20b
2o8b2o$74b2o6bo31bo6b2o31bo$74b2o4bobo29b3o37bobo$80b2o4b2o23bo40b2o$
49bo35bobo23b2o$30b2o16bobo32b3obobo$29bobo16bobo31bo5b2o2b2o$30bo18bo
32b2o8b2o58b2obo$60bo91b2ob3o$60bo97bo$bo56b3o9b2o80b2ob3o$obo7b2o46bo
11b2o49b2o30bobo$2o8bobo10b3o95b2o30bobo$9bo28b2o114bo$10bo2bo3bo5bo3b
o9bobo$13bo2bobo5b4o10bo19b2o$11b3o3bo9bo30b2o3bo66b2o$12b2o48bobo65b
2o$9bo53bobo58b2o$8bobo54bo38b2o19bo$8b2o55b2o37bobo16bo5bo$46b2o58bo
16b2o3bobo$45bobo58b2o21bo$46bo79b3o$126bo2$17bo$16bobo73b2o$16b2o74b
2o$54b2o$53bobo$54bo32b2o$87bobo$89bo$25bo63b2o$24bobo$24b2o50b2o$62b
2o12b2o$61bobo$62bo$132bo$131bobo$33bo96bo2bo$32bobo96b2o$32b2o$70b2o$
69bobo$70bo$153b2o$153b2o$41bo107b2o$40bobo106b2o$40b2o93b2o$78b2o55b
2o$77bobo$78bo3$49bo$48bobo72b2o$48b2o73b2o$86b2o57b2o$85bobo57bo$86bo
59b3o$148bo2$57bo$56bobo$56b2o$94b2o$93bobo42b2o$94bo43bo$139b3o$141bo
$65bo$64bobo$64b2o$102b2o$101bobo$102bo3$73bo$72bobo$72b2o6$81bo$80bob
o$80b2o6$89bo$88bobo$88b2o$109b2obo$109b2ob3o$115bo$109b2ob3o$110bobo$
110bobo$111bo!

Of course it would be nice to have a direct H-to-swimmer as well -- a small H-to-S and a small S-to-H would allow much higher-period signal loops in a much smaller area. But H-to-S might be a bit more of a pipe dream than H-to-LWSS -- switch engines show up rarely enough that a special-purpose search program might be needed, maybe with a distributed search.

To try to get back to this thread's original topic, though, I wonder if a swimmer can do anything useful in a one-time Blockic context? It can certainly travel with no problem, as long as the channel of blocks holds out:

x = 70, y = 70, rule = B3/S23
12b2o$12b2o5$6b3o2$6bo3bo9b2o$7b4o9b2o$10bo6$28b2o$28b2o3$2o$2o3$36b2o
$36b2o3$8b2o$8b2o3$44b2o$44b2o3$16b2o$16b2o3$52b2o$52b2o3$24b2o$24b2o
3$60b2o$60b2o3$32b2o$32b2o3$68b2o$68b2o3$40b2o$40b2o7$48b2o$48b2o!
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby knightlife » July 15th, 2013, 5:16 am

dvgrn wrote:
knightlife wrote:It would probably be better to spend more time searching for a small (50 x 50 or less) stable G ---> LWSS than a catalyst for the converter posted above. It would certainly be more useful.


Or a similarly small stable Herschel-to-LWSS, more likely. I keep seeing spontaneous LWSSes appear from slight modifications of traveling B-heptominoes -- it seems really surprising that a direct H->LWSS hasn't cropped up by this time, since there wouldn't be any need for a "bait" still life to get things going.


I have to agree that a Herschel to LWSS may be easier to find especially after I have pretty much done an exhaustive search for what is possible with a glider and 2 blocks (it is quite limited). A Herschel and catalyst combo could avoid the sacrificial block(s) or "bait" as you say (I am still assuming blocks are the easiest bait to restore). A Bellman type catalyst does seem necessary in either case.

Glider eaters have little or no spark. The "R" eaters that MikeP posted have huge sparks in comparison. It would not surprise me if a catalyst could complete a stable R-to-LWSS.

x = 20, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
18b2o$bo15bobo$b2o14b2o$2o4$12b2o$2bo2bo3bo2bo$2b4o2bobobobo$6b3obo2b
2o$4b2o4bo$4bo2b3o$6b2o!


There is a glider-block-block pattern that makes an LWSS but there is a lot of debris to clean up.

I guess I am still wishing/searching for direct spaceship converters. Conduits just seem to get in the way.
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby knightlife » July 21st, 2013, 4:47 pm

Blockic H to LWSS uses just 3 blocks:
x = 47, y = 12, rule = LifeHistory
.A$2.2A30.D$3.2A29.D.D$5.A28.3D$5A2.2A27.D2A$3.A3.2A28.2A$15.2A28.2A$
15.2A28.2A3$11.2A28.2A$11.2A28.2A!

The pre-H pattern is shown 6 generations before it would have become a Herschel.

EDIT:
This is probably not new since it uses the old LOM + 2 blocks recipe to make the LWSS.
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby Extrementhusiast » July 28th, 2013, 2:55 pm

Although this is probably old news, what were some soups that produced XWSSs? I found my HWSS reaction from an "explosion".
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby eaglgenes101 » July 28th, 2013, 3:31 pm

What are the possible outcomes of a single glider hitting a single block? I can't remember.
    When will a 2x2 gun be discovered...?
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby skomick » July 28th, 2013, 4:44 pm

eaglgenes101 wrote:What are the possible outcomes of a single glider hitting a single block? I can't remember.


Mutual annihilation, block, honey-farm, and pi heptomino.
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby eaglgenes101 » July 28th, 2013, 4:58 pm

skomick wrote:
eaglgenes101 wrote:What are the possible outcomes of a single glider hitting a single block? I can't remember.


Mutual annihilation, block, honey-farm, and pi heptomino.


More specifically, which directions can a glider shift a block?
    When will a 2x2 gun be discovered...?
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby Kasuha » July 29th, 2013, 12:24 pm

eaglgenes101 wrote:More specifically, which directions can a glider shift a block?

There are just 6 ways how a glider can run into a block, why don't you simply try them out?

x = 132, y = 20, rule = LifeHistory
9$13.2A18.2A18.2A18.2A18.2A18.2A$13.2A18.2A18.2A18.2A18.2A18.2A3$11.
3A18.3A18.3A18.3A18.3A18.3A$11.A20.A20.A20.A20.A20.A$12.A20.A20.A20.A
20.A20.A!
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby knightlife » August 4th, 2013, 5:29 pm

5-block seed makes LWSS and a 90-degree glider:
x = 15, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
6bo$7bo$5b3o7$5b2o$2o3b2o$2o7b2o$9b2o2b2o$13b2o$4b2o$4b2o!

5-block seed makes LWSS and 4 gliders:
x = 40, y = 36, rule = B3/S23
5bo$6bo$4b3o15$2o$2o2$17b2o$17b2o5$38b2o$38b2o6$33b2o$18b2o13b2o$18b2o
!
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby knightlife » August 11th, 2013, 5:09 pm

3-block seed makes 4 barges:
x = 13, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
bo$2bo$3o6$11b2o$11b2o$b2o$b2o6$6b2o$6b2o!


4-block seed for MWSS + 2G (not clean):
x = 21, y = 21, rule = B3/S23
5b2o$5b2o5$bo$2bo$3o3$19b2o$19b2o4$16b2o$16b2o2$9b2o$9b2o!


Cleanup with stable reflectors:
x = 95, y = 134, rule = B3/S23
87bob2o$87b2obo2$85b5o$85bo4bo2b2o$88bo2bo2bo$88b2obobo$85bo5bob2o$84b
obo4bo$84bo2bo2b2o$85b2o9$77b2o$77b2o8$63b2o22b2o$62bo2bo21bo$63b2o23b
3o$90bo6$80b2o$80bo$81b3o$83bo2$40b2o$40b2o5$36bo$37bo$35b3o3$54b2o$
54b2o4$51b2o$51b2o2$44b2o$44b2o13$9bo$9b3o$12bo$11b2o3$2ob2o$2obo85bo$
3bo67b2o14b5o$3b3o4b2o60bo13bo5bo$b2o3bo3b2o60bobo12b3o2bo$o2b4o66b2o
15bob2o$2obo15b2o66b4o2bo$bo2b3o12bobo60b2o3bo3b2o$bo5bo13bo60b2o4b3o$
2b5o14b2o67bo$4bo85bob2o$89b2ob2o3$81b2o$81bo$82b3o$84bo13$47bo$45b3o$
44bo$44b2o7$34b2o$33bobo5b2o$33bo7b2o$32b2o2$46bo$42b2obobo$41bobobobo
$38bo2bobobob2o$38b4ob2o2bo$42bo4bo$38b2o2bob3o$38b2o3b2o!
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby Extrementhusiast » August 11th, 2013, 7:04 pm

Disregard this.
Last edited by Extrementhusiast on August 14th, 2013, 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Blockic Seeds

Postby mniemiec » August 13th, 2013, 3:35 pm

knightlife wrote:Blockic synthesis may be able to produce objects that glider synthesis can't, although it is an open problem whether glider synthesis can produce any desired still life result.


Since blocks can be made from gliders, the only way one could find a blockic synthesis that can make something gliders can't, is if one finds an arrangement of blocks that can't be built from gliders. Although I don't think there has been any rigorous proof that such an arrangement is impossible, it's fairly unlikely,
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