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Snowflakes (B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e)

For discussion of other cellular automata.

Re: Snowflakes (B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e)

Postby EvinZL » December 9th, 2018, 2:45 pm

whoops
I Like Random Explosive Rules
  • B2ae3inqr/S0
  • B23/S234inty
  • B34w/S23
  • B012-i34/S2-a3-i4-w6
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Re: Snowflakes (B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e)

Postby 83bismuth38 » December 9th, 2018, 8:11 pm

Welcome to the forums! :)
Not to be harsh, but if you are going to say you messed up or something along these lines, edit your message. Please don't make an entire reply consisting of just one word, as it adds pointless clutter to the forums, and we don't want to make ourselves disreputable now, do we? :D
x = 8, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
3b2o$3b2o$2b3o$4bobo$2obobobo$3bo2bo$2bobo2bo$2bo4bo$2bo4bo$2bo!

No football of any dui mauris said that.
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Re: Snowflakes (B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e)

Postby 77topaz » March 13th, 2019, 5:18 pm

Me and dani have been apgsearching Snowflakes again, because "the first non-totalistic rule to have 1 trillion objects" is a major milestone and we think Snowflakes deserves it rather than the less interesting X3VI. I urge anyone else who likes Snowflakes to join us in this quest!
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Re: Snowflakes (B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e)

Postby Moosey » March 13th, 2019, 5:33 pm

77topaz wrote:Me and dani have been apgsearching Snowflakes again, because "the first non-totalistic rule to have 1 trillion objects" is a major milestone and we think Snowflakes deserves it rather than the less interesting X3VI. I urge anyone else who likes Snowflakes to join us in this quest!

I'll help. My computer doesn't search too fast though.
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Re: Snowflakes (B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e)

Postby 77topaz » March 13th, 2019, 6:30 pm

http://catagolue.appspot.com/haul/b2ci3 ... bf42792304

Okay, whoever added this spam haul to the census (they did it anonymously), it's not funny.
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Re: Snowflakes (B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e)

Postby Moosey » March 13th, 2019, 7:55 pm

are there any period n*8 (n>1, n is an integer) rakes to complete this (not the smallest) breeder?
x = 210, y = 27, rule = B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e
9b2o7b2o37b2o88bo$9bo8bo38bo13b2o75bo$9b2o7b3o36b3o11bo13b2o61b2o3b2o$
13bo57b3o11bo13b2o46b2o5bo$85b3o11bo5b2o45b3o$2o7b3o2b2o3bo38bo40b3o3b
o15b2o25b3o$o8bo4bo8bo3bo3bo3bo3bo3bo61b3o13bo26bobo$2o7b2o3b2o17bo3bo
5b2o29bo46b3o24b2o3b2o$3bo25bo6b3ob2obo3bo42bo63bo$21bo3bo30bo15bo15bo
15bo40bo7b2o$2o3b2o2bo7bo6b3o8b2o17bo15bo15bo15bo15bo27bo$o4bo7bo15b2o
4bo110b2o$3o2b2o5b3o8b2o4bo5b3o16bo90b2o$17b2o4bo5b3o38bo15bo15bo15bo$
11b2o4bo5b3o28bo147b2o$11bo5b3o183b2o2b3o$11b3o189bo5bo$202bo5b2o$58bo
$58bobo143bobo$58b3o147b2o$209bo$208b2o$56b3o141b2o$56bo144b2o$56b2o
143bo$200bo!


Edit:
vvv unsurprising.
Last edited by Moosey on March 14th, 2019, 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Snowflakes (B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e)

Postby BlinkerSpawn » March 14th, 2019, 9:17 am

Moosey wrote:are there any period n*8 (n>1, n is an integer) rakes to complete this (not the smallest) breeder?
incomplete breeder

Yes.
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Re: Snowflakes (B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e)

Postby Goldtiger997 » April 9th, 2019, 8:14 am

I am pleased to announce the completion of a self-constructing pattern in snowflakes. Specifically, it is like an orthogonoid but without a cleanup recipe, making it a "self-constructing puffer". Other than myself, credit also goes to 2718281828, dani and toroidalet for help with the construction salvos, and BlinkerSpawn for the help with the universal constructor design. Also, thanks to Saka, dvgrn and Sarp for helping me test it.

completed self constructing puffer!.mc.gz
(155.65 KiB) Downloaded 165 times

The attached pattern has a bounding box of 359 x 1300600. I haven't measured it's speed, but I know it is close to 184/c(5.2 million), so very slow! It's period can also be adjusted by multiples of 4 by pulling the two halves further apart. This means that snowflakes now supports an infinite variety of velocities (of puffers).

This project took me quite a long time. Apparently I started in June last year. Since then two complete orthognoids have been constructed in other isotropic rules, primarily through the efforts of 2718281828 and AforAmpere. Originally, Snowflakes seemed like a really good rule to make orthogonoid in, but it turns out that it barely works.

The next step of course is to make a complete working orthogonoid by adding a cleanup recipe to the tape. However, this comes with a whole host of problems and inefficiencies that I don't plan to tackling myself for a while!
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Re: Snowflakes (B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e)

Postby 2718281828 » April 9th, 2019, 10:56 am

Great job!!!
I was afraid that it never finds an end. But now we have it.
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Re: Snowflakes (B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e)

Postby googoIpIex » April 9th, 2019, 11:36 am

Update your signatures
woomy on a vroomy
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Re: Snowflakes (B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e)

Postby dvgrn » April 9th, 2019, 5:41 pm

Goldtiger997 wrote:The next step of course is to make a complete working orthogonoid by adding a cleanup recipe to the tape. However, this comes with a whole host of problems and inefficiencies that I don't plan to tackling myself for a while!

Any hints on where someone should start? Do you have any stamp collections showing slow salvos to transform one snowflake constellation into another for example -- or is there a script to generate recipes like that?

I see how the silly idea I posted on Discord might have been a silly idea: you can't just move that northernmost reflector into a mirror-image position (with respect to the two signal streams feeding the construction arm) because you can't necessarily send lots of gliders on the easternmost upward stream, and just a few gliders on the westernmost upward stream. That's likely to cause collisions at the signal crossing points lower down.

Maybe it's better to add a couple more reflectors somewhere, so that they can be disabled at the end, and the same input streams can be used to create a constructor-arm pointing pointing west, for shooting down old circuitry? Or is it just as easy to leave a snowflake off to the west above the old copy of the circuitry, and bounce signals 180 degrees off another snowflake to the east?

-- That really doesn't seem all that bad, though it's technically slow^2 because you have to maneuver both elbow snowflakes at once to make the final 90-degree bounces work. And then snowflakes are indeed annoying to shoot down. Has anyone collected any good options for self-destruct circuitry?
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Re: Snowflakes (B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e)

Postby toroidalet » April 9th, 2019, 6:10 pm

I also started working on a linear propagator but I didn't complete it due to a combination of bugs in the turner script and the fact that it was just too frustrating.
Rather than pushing the dot all the way to make the top reflector, I used a sqrt-bounding box growth pattern and then destroyed the glider once it reached the required area; I'm not sure if that is better or worse. (It takes over 2000 generations for the snowflake to reach the required position, which is probably more than enough time to fire another glider to stop the expansion)
(Wait, how did I do this when I said I never actually completed it? I started making the salvo but the turner didn't generate it properly, and I'm not sure how much of that was my fault, and GoldTiger997 posted their linear propagator, so it didn't matter.)

For those curious, here was the salvo I used:
x = 271, y = 39, rule = B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7eHistory
266.D$264.5D$264.D3.D$263.2D.D.2D$264.D3.D$264.5D$266.D$266.2D12$20.
2A8.2A8.2A8.2A8.2A8.2A8.2A$10.2A9.A9.A9.A9.A9.A9.A9.A$11.A8.2A8.2A8.
2A8.2A8.2A8.2A8.2A18.2A$10.2A89.A$100.2A$90.2A38.2A$91.A39.A8.2A8.2A
8.2A8.2A8.2A8.2A8.2A$90.2A38.2A9.A9.A9.A9.A9.A9.A9.A$110.2A8.2A18.2A
8.2A8.2A8.2A8.2A8.2A8.2A18.2A$2A109.A9.A99.A$.A108.2A8.2A98.2A$2A208.
2A38.2A$211.A39.A8.2A$210.2A38.2A9.A5.A$230.2A8.2A18.2A3.5A$231.A9.A
23.A3.A$230.2A8.2A22.2A.A.2A$265.A3.A$265.5A$267.A!


To complete the self-destruct mechanism, we have 3 options:
  • 1: Around the area of the top reflector, place an elbow snowflake and destroy the previous mechanism from above.
  • 2: Bounce gliders back off of the elbow snowflake onto a second one in the vicinity of the previous constructor and destroy it that way.
  • 3: Bring the elbow snowflake near the thinner channel (the one that doesn't hit the reflector) and bounce gliders from it onto a second elbow snowflake and do the destruction that way.

A rough sketch of these methods:
x = 155, y = 340, rule = B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7eHistory
3.D39.D$.5D36.D$.D3.D35.D$2D.D.2D33.75D5.D$.D3.D35.D76.5D$.5D36.D75.D
3.D$3.D39.D73.2D.D.2D$118.D3.D$118.5D$3.D116.D$3.D$3.D$3.D$3.D$3.D$3.
D$3.D$3.D109.A$3.D107.5A$3.D107.A3.A$3.D106.2A.A.2A$3.D107.A3.A$3.D
107.5A$3.D109.A$3.D108.2A$3.D$3.D$3.D108.A$3.D106.5A$3.D106.A3.A$D2.D
2.D102.2A.A.2A$.D.D.D104.A3.A$2.3D105.5A$3.D108.A21$121.D$120.3D$119.
D.D.D$118.D2.D2.D$121.D$121.D$121.D$121.D$121.D$121.D$121.D$121.D$
121.D$121.D$121.D$121.D$121.D$121.D$121.D$121.D$121.D$121.D$25.D95.D$
24.3D94.D$23.D.D.D89.D3.D$22.D2.D2.D87.2D3.D$25.D89.D.D3.D$25.D88.D2.
D3.D$25.D91.D3.D$25.D91.D3.D$25.D91.D3.D$25.D89.5D.D$25.D95.D$25.D95.
D$25.D54.3D38.D$25.D53.D3.D37.D$25.D52.D5.D36.D$25.D58.D36.D$25.D57.D
37.D$25.D56.D38.D$25.D55.D39.D$25.D54.D40.D$79.D41.D$78.D42.D$78.7D3$
25.D21.D73.D$23.5D18.D72.5D$23.D3.D17.D73.D3.D$22.2D.D.2D15.67D7.2D.D
.2D$23.D3.D17.D73.D3.D$23.5D18.D72.5D$25.D21.D73.D3$111.A$109.5A$109.
A3.A$108.2A.A.2A$109.A3.A$109.5A$111.A$25.D$25.D$25.D$25.D$25.D$25.D$
25.D$25.D$25.D$25.D$25.D$25.D$25.D84.3A$25.D84.A.A$25.D$25.D$22.D2.D
2.D$23.D.D.D$24.3D$25.D23.D$48.3D$47.D.D.D$46.D2.D2.D$49.D$49.D$49.D$
49.D$49.D$49.D$49.D$49.D$49.D$49.D$49.D$49.D$49.D$49.D$49.D$49.D$126.
3D$125.D3.D$124.D5.D$130.D$129.D$128.D$129.D$111.A18.D$110.3A11.D5.D$
110.A.A12.D3.D$111.A14.3D3$49.D13.D59.D$47.5D10.D58.5D$47.D3.D9.D59.D
3.D$46.2D.D.2D7.45D11.3A.2D.D.2D$47.D3.D9.D54.A.A2.D3.D$47.5D10.D58.
5D$49.D13.D59.D7$95.2A$96.A$96.2A$49.D$49.D$49.D46.A$49.D44.5A$49.D
44.A3.A$49.D43.2A.A.2A$49.D46.A$49.D46.A$49.D40.A4.3A$49.D38.5A3.A$
49.D38.A3.A$46.D2.D2.D31.A2.2A.A.2A$47.D.D.D30.3A3.A3.A$48.3D31.A5.5A
17.3A$49.D40.A19.A.A3$108.2A3.2A$109.A3.A$109.5A$111.A3$110.2A$110.A$
108.5A$108.A3.A$107.2A.A.2A$108.A3.A$108.5A$110.A4$41.2A$42.A$42.2A2$
129.A9.A$42.A84.5A5.5A$40.5A82.A3.A5.A3.A$40.A3.A81.2A.A.2A3.2A.A.2A$
39.2A.A.2A50.3A28.A3.A2.A2.A3.A$40.A3.A51.A.A28.5A.3A.5A$40.5A53.A30.
A9.A$42.A7.A$48.5A$48.A3.A58.A22.A$47.2A.A.2A2.A46.A5.5A$48.A3.A3.3A
13.A30.3A3.A3.A$48.5A5.A11.5A30.A2.2A.A.2A19.A$50.A19.A3.A28.A5.A3.A
38.A$66.A2.2A.A.2A20.A2.A3.2A4.5A$64.3A3.A3.A28.A7.A5.A$64.A5.5A2.3A
25.A9.5A13.3A$72.A4.A.A23.5A7.A3.A13.A.A$103.A3.A6.2A.A.2A$102.2A.A.
2A6.A3.A$103.A3.A7.5A$103.5A9.A$98.A6.A$96.A.A$96.3A18.2A$118.A$116.
5A$116.A3.A$115.2A.A.2A$116.A3.A$116.5A$118.A4$78.A$77.3A9.A$77.A.A9.
A64.A$78.A11.A12.2A24.2A$84.A17.A.2A24.A$82.3A5.A12.2A24.2A$82.A6.A$
89.A6.A$94.5A$94.A3.A$93.2A.A.2A$94.A3.A$94.5A$96.A3$96.2A$97.A$95.5A
$95.A3.A$94.2A.A.2A$95.A3.A$95.5A$97.A3$77.3A$77.A.A15$134.A$133.3A$
133.A.A$134.A2$77.3A$77.A.A20$77.3A$77.A.A11$133.3A$133.A.A!


I suppose if you really want you could move method 1 below the constructor, but then it crosses the glider streams and causes all sorts of headaches.

Method 3 doesn't need another elbow snowflake; fire commands from the constructor can be used to reposition the sole one as needed. Here are some sample salvos with it showing how to push the elbow snowflake far enough away that you can adjust it at will (the first one segways into any fire command, while the second uses a specific fire that starts horizontal push and pull)
x = 333, y = 1661, rule = B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e
74bo211bo$72b5o207b5o$72bo3bo207bo3bo$71b2obob2o205b2obob2o$72bo3bo
207bo3bo$72b5o207b5o$74bo211bo$73b2o210b2o3$73bo211bo$71b5o207b5o$71bo
3bo207bo3bo$70b2obob2o205b2obob2o$71bo3bo207bo3bo$71b5o207b5o$73bo211b
o13$84bo211bo$82b5o173bo33b5o$82bo3bo207bo3bo$81b2obob2o205b2obob2o$
82bo3bo207bo3bo$82b5o207b5o$84bo211bo130$56b2o210b2o$57bo211bo$57b2o
210b2o3$57bo211bo$55b5o207b5o$55bo3bo207bo3bo$54b2obob2o205b2obob2o$
55bo3bo207bo3bo$55b5o207b5o$51bo5bo205bo5bo$49b5o207b5o$49bo3bo207bo3b
o$45bo2b2obob2o202bo2b2obob2o$43b3o3bo3bo201b3o3bo3bo$43bo5b5o201bo5b
5o$51bo20bo190bo20bo$70b5o207b5o$70bo3bo207bo3bo$69b2obob2o205b2obob2o
$70bo3bo207bo3bo$70b5o207b5o$72bo211bo3$71b2o210b2o$71bo211bo$69b5o
207b5o$69bo3bo207bo3bo$68b2obob2o205b2obob2o$69bo3bo207bo3bo$69b5o207b
5o$71bo211bo4$2b2o210b2o$3bo211bo$3b2o210b2o2$90bo9bo201bo9bo$3bo84b5o
5b5o112bo84b5o5b5o$b5o82bo3bo5bo3bo110b5o82bo3bo5bo3bo$bo3bo81b2obob2o
3b2obob2o109bo3bo81b2obob2o3b2obob2o$2obob2o81bo3bo2bo2bo3bo109b2obob
2o81bo3bo2bo2bo3bo$bo3bo82b5ob3ob5o110bo3bo82b5ob3ob5o$b5o84bo9bo112b
5o84bo9bo$3bo7bo203bo7bo$9b5o207b5o$9bo3bo58bo22bo125bo3bo58bo22bo$8b
2obob2o2bo46bo5b5o145b2obob2o2bo46bo5b5o$9bo3bo3b3o13bo30b3o3bo3bo146b
o3bo3b3o13bo30b3o3bo3bo$9b5o5bo11b5o30bo2b2obob2o19bo125b5o5bo11b5o30b
o2b2obob2o19bo$11bo19bo3bo28bo5bo3bo45bo102bo19bo3bo28bo5bo3bo45bo$27b
o2b2obob2o20bo2bo3b2o4b5o164bo2b2obob2o20bo2bo3b2o4b5o$25b3o3bo3bo28bo
7bo5bo158b3o3bo3bo28bo7bo5bo$25bo5b5o30bo9b5o156bo5b5o30bo9b5o$33bo30b
5o7bo3bo164bo30b5o7bo3bo$64bo3bo6b2obob2o194bo3bo6b2obob2o$63b2obob2o
6bo3bo194b2obob2o6bo3bo$64bo3bo7b5o195bo3bo7b5o$64b5o9bo197b5o9bo$66bo
211bo2$78b2o210b2o$79bo211bo$77b5o207b5o$77bo3bo207bo3bo$76b2obob2o
205b2obob2o$39bo37bo3bo169bo37bo3bo$38b3o36b5o168b3o36b5o$38bobo38bo
170bobo38bo$39bo211bo4$51bo211bo$49b5o207b5o$49bo3bo207bo3bo$45bo2b2ob
ob2o202bo2b2obob2o$43b3o3bo3bo201b3o3bo3bo$43bo5b5o59bo141bo5b5o59bo$
51bo5bo205bo5bo$55b5o207b5o$55bo3bo207bo3bo$54b2obob2o205b2obob2o$55bo
3bo207bo3bo$55b5o207b5o$57bo211bo3$57b2o210b2o$58bo211bo$56b5o207b5o$
56bo3bo207bo3bo$55b2obob2o205b2obob2o$56bo3bo207bo3bo$56b5o207b5o$58bo
211bo3$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo2$94b3o209b3o$94bobo209bobo17$38b3o
209b3o$38bobo209bobo20$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo20$38b3o209b3o$38bobo
209bobo20$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo20$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo20$38b
3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo20$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo20$38b3o209b3o$38bob
o209bobo20$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo20$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo20$38b
3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo20$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo20$38b3o209b3o$38bob
o209bobo20$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo26$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo38$38b
3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo20$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo24$39bo211bo$38b3o
209b3o$38bobo209bobo$39bo211bo14$94b3o209b3o$94bobo209bobo3$39bo211bo$
38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo$39bo211bo18$39bo211bo$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209b
obo$39bo211bo9$95bo211bo$94b3o209b3o$94bobo209bobo$95bo211bo6$39bo211b
o$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo$39bo211bo17$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo20$
38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo20$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo20$38b3o209b3o$
38bobo209bobo20$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo20$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo
20$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo20$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo20$38b3o209b3o
$38bobo209bobo32$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo38$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo
20$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo33$39bo211bo$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo$39b
o211bo32$38b3o53b3o153b3o53b3o$38bobo53bobo153bobo53bobo24$39bo211bo$
38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo$39bo211bo32$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo33$39bo
55bo155bo55bo$38b3o53b3o153b3o53b3o$38bobo53bobo153bobo53bobo$39bo55bo
155bo55bo23$38b3o209b3o$38bobo209bobo33$39bo211bo$38b3o209b3o$38bobo
209bobo$39bo211bo32$38b3o53b3o153b3o53b3o$38bobo53bobo153bobo53bobo33$
95bo211bo$94b3o209b3o$94bobo209bobo$95bo211bo5$250b3o$39bo210bobo$38b
3o$38bobo$39bo17$38b3o$38bobo3$251bo$250b3o$250bobo$251bo14$38b3o$38bo
bo17$250b3o$250bobo2$38b3o$38bobo20$38b3o$38bobo9$251bo55bo$250b3o53b
3o$250bobo53bobo$251bo55bo8$38b3o$38bobo14$250b3o$250bobo5$38b3o$38bob
o20$38b3o$38bobo6$251bo$250b3o$250bobo$251bo11$38b3o$38bobo20$38b3o
209b3o53b3o$38bobo209bobo53bobo20$38b3o$38bobo3$251bo$250b3o$250bobo$
251bo14$38b3o$38bobo17$250b3o$250bobo2$38b3o$38bobo20$38b3o$38bobo9$
251bo55bo$250b3o53b3o$250bobo53bobo$251bo55bo8$38b3o$38bobo8$250b3o$
250bobo14$306b3o$306bobo3$251bo$250b3o$250bobo$251bo17$250b3o$250bobo!


I think method 3 is probably the cheapest overall, but method 1 is probably the easiest to do.

On an unrelated note, perhaps some extra gliders far behind the construction sequence could help with the self-destruct, but I'm not really sure how. Maybe they could help clean up junk on the appropriate lanes or destroy escaping gliders.
"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

-Terry Pratchett
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toroidalet
 
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Re: Snowflakes (B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e)

Postby calcyman » June 25th, 2019, 9:02 am

I've restored the Snowflakes census on Catagolue, including the object count (real), soup count (estimated), and leaderboard:

https://catagolue.appspot.com/census/b2 ... 5ar6i7e/C1

The number of hauls is incorrect, but that's a relatively minor issue.
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!
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